NWCI complains that only 4 in 15 ministers are women

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/womens-council-really-disappointing-that-just-four-of-15-ministers-appointed-are-women-1007917.html

Should we not be appointing people based on ability rather than gender. Gender is arbitrary as a person's hair or eye colour.
Besides, should we not be looking at how many TD's are women in the first place? They are already elected at a lower percentage by the electorate who are free to elect whomever they want.

Then we have the upper house where 9 out of 11 senators are women. But no-one would dare question that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nine-of-taoiseach-s-11-seanad-appointees-are-women-1.4290681?mode=amp

Why is it ok to question a majority male ministerial cabinet but not ok to question a majority female senate?

Silentcorner

Because they are the National Women's Council...a taxpayer funded lobby group for women to pressure the government of the day for as many privileges for women as is humanely possible....they made all the political parties sign up to the feminist manifesto before the last election.

They know full well it doesn't matter a jot how many women get elected....

I'd say the toughest part of their day is trying to keep a straight face!!!

ILoveYourVibes

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Should we not be appointing people based on ability rather than gender. Gender is arbitrary as a person's hair or eye colour.

So why lock women out of the boys club because of it?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Why is it ok to question a majority male ministerial cabinet but not ok to question a majority female senate?

That wouldn't fit the victimhood narrative. The concept of meritocracy needn't apply either.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

That wouldn't fit the victimhood narrative. The concept of meritocracy needn't apply either.

You think Michael Martin is tsaoiseach on merit?

You think Simon Harris was minister for health on merit NOW minister for higher education? A college drop out?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nine-of-taoiseach-s-11-seanad-appointees-are-women-1.4290681?mode=amp

Why is it ok to question a majority male ministerial cabinet but not ok to question a majority female senate?

Nine of the Taoiseach's senators are women precisely because the state of women's representation is so pathetic.

It doesnt even come close to approaching a statistically normal representation of women in the workplace.

Eight out of 10 TDs in the Dail are now men. That is an absolutely shocking indictment of the voting behaviours of Irish people, and the social structures which we have created to deprive ourselves of a significant amount of human talent.

Dammo

OP, were a lot of your teachers women?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So why lock women out of the boys club because of it?

So why is it ok to ridicule a male majority cabinet but not ok to question a female majority senate?

is_that_so

Their position is less about the number of ministers than the inadequate number of candidates, according to that.

biko

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So why lock women out of the boys club because of it?

4 out of 15 positions isn't "locked out".

sabat

Once again this private sector club is presented in the media as being a state body...

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Nine of the Taoiseach's senators are women precisely because the state of women's representation is so pathetic.

It doesnt even come close to approaching a statistically normal representation of women in politics.

Eight out of 10 TDs in the Dail are now men. That is an absolutely shockomg indictment of the voting behaviours of Irish people, and the social structures which we have created to deprive ourselves of a significant amount of human talent.

If you want to live in a society where people are forced to vote in a specific way, feel free to defect into North Korea.

ILoveYourVibes

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

So why is it ok to ridicule a male majority cabinet but not ok to question a female majority senate?

Have you observed the general quality of these people?

I am speaking both men and women here.

Stephen Donnelly is now minister for health.

These people are not chosen on merit.


Hazel Chu has not had to debit her relevant experience of late she has had to debate whether or she is Irish and whether or not its ok for an Asian person to be mayor. Which would insinuate that for some people being a white person might be very important to their voting decision.

Please don't tell me Joan Burton was put there on MERIT. She towed the party line.

Its NOT a meritocracy. And if it is going to be nepotistic we may as well go for the fairest nepotism we can.

Politics is not based on merit. But if you are going to have something entirely based on nepotism go for the fairest brand of over privileged.

piplip87

Women don't vote for women candidates. It's simple as that. Every party signed up to gender quotas, often male candidates who did better at conventions where not selected because of this quota.

Then the general election comes along and people vote based on ability..

Outkast_IRE

Here lads , you should know by now your not allowed question the narrative, just shutup and take your medicine.

Dont ask why nobody raises issues with

1. Huge over representation of Women at Primary Teaching level in the past 15 years or more . No campaign to get more men involved. Let women have the cushy few months off for the summer ,

2. Huge over representation of Women in Healthcare & Nursing yet no campaign to get more men involved.

3. Women only Professorships in fields where by their own choice women dont pick them . For example engineering if 90% of students are male then unfortunately its likely 90% of professors are male. Merit should be everything we are ploughing money into STEM subjects for women and they still dont pick them in large numbers.

4. Men literally cant pick childcare as a profession for fear they will be called a Pedophile by Women. There was a case in Cork recently of a third level educated male childcare professional working in a creche getting called a Pedo by a woman collecting her child from care, who called him a weirdo for picking it as a profession. Yet not a noise made about it.

Gender Quotas are not the solution in any area - Just ensure equality of access and let people follow their own path in life. Dont consider it irregular if men like to choose certain professions and women choose others. Just ensure all people are treated fair.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Have you observed the general quality of these people?

I am speaking both men and women here.

Stephen Donnelly is now minister for health.

These people are not chosen on merit.


Hazel Chu has not had to debit her relevant experience of late she has had to debate whether or she is Irish and whether or not its ok for an Asian person to be mayor. Which would insinuate that for some people being a white person might be very important to their voting decision.

Please don't tell me Joan Burton was put there on MERIT. She towed the party line.

Its NOT a meritocracy. And if it is going to be nepotistic we may as well go for the fairest nepotism we can.

Politics is not based on merit. But if you are going to have something entirely based on nepotism go for the fairest brand of over privileged.

Then based on that reasoning, should we aim to have 4% Protestants, 1% Muslims, 10% non-religious, some disabled people, some brown eyed people, some green eyed, some Jews.... All of those are as arbitrary as ridiculous gender quotas.

Gruffalux

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Eight out of 10 TDs in the Dail are now men. That is an absolutely shockomg indictment of the voting behaviours of Irish people, and the social structures which we have created to deprive ourselves of a significant amount of human talent.

Must admit I never checked. Mostly what I think about becoming a politician is where did it all go wrong for them? What a life. But anyway on the point of the shocking indictment of the voting behaviour of the Irish people I presume the indictment falls equally on the male and female voters. I cannot get voter turnout numbers broken down by sex on the google but it appears that when it comes to European elections men and women turn out about equally in number in Ireland so I am going to hazard a guess that women turn out at Irish national elections freely and vote freely as they wish. People like who they like. People vote for who they like. The mystery to me is how anyone ever finds anyone they like on a ballot paper. I find it a futile exercise in using my mandate to desperately try and keep out the worst morons.

is_that_so

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Here lads , you should know by now your not allowed question the narrative, just shutup and take your medicine.

Dont ask why nobody raises issues with

1. Huge over representation of Women at Primary Teaching level in the past 15 years or more . No campaign to get more men involved. Let women have the cushy few months off for the summer.

They've been aware of this for a long time and it's not for the want of trying. Lots of reasons for this from negative perceptions of the job to opportunities elsewhere.

StackSteevens

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Eight out of 10 TDs in the Dail are now men. That is an absolutely shockomg indictment of the voting behaviours of Irish people, and the social structures which we have created to deprive ourselves of a significant amount of human talent.

51% of the electorate is female, and the fact that the majority of them chose to vote for male candidates is a credit to their intelligence.

davetherave

162 of the 531 candidates in the general election were females. 30.5%

36 of the 160 elected TD's are female. 22.5%

4 of 15 ministers is 26.6%



That seems proportional to the number of candidates.

Outkast_IRE

is_that_so wrote: »

They've been aware of this for a long time and it's not for the want of trying. Lots of reasons for this from negative perceptions of the job to opportunities elsewhere.

Its sounds like lots of studies but very few actions. Are there male only events that demonstrate what a great area it is ?


Look at the lengths we are going to trying to get Women into STEM areas. There is everything from scholarships to huge quantities of local events aimed at women only such as the IWISH events and plenty of events by individual colleges.

Paulzx

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

. That is an absolutely shockomg indictment of the voting behaviours of Irish people.

Its ok to insinuate the male voters are cabbages but please don't include the 50% of the electorate that are female. That's not allowed

#female voters matter

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

I have a science degree in a niche area.
There was 1 girl and 11 boys in my college course.

The CAO application process is as blind as Stevie Wonder. What's stopping girls from applying?

Zebra3

I look forward to NWCI and its' supporters campaigning for women to take 50% of jobs on building sites.

We're all mad for equality, aren't we? :rolleyes:

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

If you want to live in a society where people are forced to vote in a specific way, feel free to defect into North Korea.

I can only assume that you are a fellow feminist and you know exactly how ridiculous this sounds.

The point is that there is obviously a problem when 80 per-cent of our elected representatives are male. I am not for a moment absolving women from their answerability here, either; they also live in a free democracy and of course, should focus on changing the social barriers that exist for women who wish to enter politics.

Think about the talent we are losing when 50% of the population seems to feel inhibited from taking a role of political leadership, despite women being well-represented in management, business and administration. You don't even have to be a feminist to acknowledge this problem, just as a matter of practicality, this loss of talent is insane.

Edit: I've just realised that this thread has been moved to a forum which is notoriously awful, so you probably are wasting your time replying to this. I'm out.

FishOnABike

biko wrote: »

4 out of 15 positions isn't "locked out".

Agreed, if 2/10 TDs are women, despite there being quotas for election candidates, then 4/15 is an over representation of women TDs as ministers. What are the equality agency going to do to bring this down to a more equal and proportionately representative level of 3/15???

mouldybiscuits

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Nine of the Taoiseach's senators are women precisely because the state of women's representation is so pathetic.

It doesnt even come close to approaching a statistically normal representation of women in politics.

Eight out of 10 TDs in the Dail are now men. That is an absolutely shockomg indictment of the voting behaviours of Irish people, and the social structures which we have created to deprive ourselves of a significant amount of human talent.

Maybe men are more likely to pursue a career in politics or are seen by the public as more likely to be better leaders. Maybe because of the differences between men and women men are more likely to succeed at some things and women are more likely to succeed at other things. It seems ridiculous to introduce quotas because then people are actually being discriminated against. Most sewerage workers are also men, should we introduce a quota there too? We also need more female carpenters, plumbers and builders. More men need to be encouraged to become primary childminders while the women go to work on the building sites under the new quotas. I'm all for equal rights for everyone. Gender should not be relevent regarding job opportunities, otherwise that's not fair and equal treatment.

davetherave

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Have you observed the general quality of these people?

I am speaking both men and women here.

Stephen Donnelly is now minister for health.

These people are not chosen on merit.


Hazel Chu has not had to debit her relevant experience of late she has had to debate whether or she is Irish and whether or not its ok for an Asian person to be mayor. Which would insinuate that for some people being a white person might be very important to their voting decision.

Please don't tell me Joan Burton was put there on MERIT. She towed the party line.

Its NOT a meritocracy. And if it is going to be nepotistic we may as well go for the fairest nepotism we can.

Politics is not based on merit. But if you are going to have something entirely based on nepotism go for the fairest brand of over privileged.

Should Minister for Justice have been a member of An Garda Siochana in a previous life?

Does the Minister for Health need to be a doctor, or a nurse, or a big cheese in the HSE?

Does the Minister for Defence need to know his or her section battle drills? Or have completed their Command and Staff Course in the Military College in the Curragh? No, it would have been nice if Cathal Berry had gotten the nod for Defence on account of him having gone through the system and actually knowing what it is like but a minister is a policy maker.


I've been in the Defence Forces for 12 years. I can hit a target 38 times out of 40 from varying distances from 300 to 100 metres. I can do an apropriate number of push-ups and sit-ups and run 3.2km in an apropiate time for my age and gender to be deemed "Fit". I have the neccessary skills, training, and confidence in myself to lead a team of 9 guys and girls through an assault on a postition.

Does that mean you think I'm over qualified for the role of Minister for Defence and Foreign Affairs?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

If a 50% gender quotas becomes enforced, hopefully they'll make it so both genders have to be represented.

If the quota only protects women then there's nothing to stop the pendulum swinging and the Dáil being 75% women.

LiquidZeb

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You think Michael Martin is tsaoiseach on merit?

You think Simon Harris was minister for health on merit NOW minister for higher education? A college drop out?

I think you'll find gender and skin colour reigns supreme in the old boys club. Not merit or qualification.

Paulzx

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

If a 50% gender quotas becomes enforced, hopefully they'll make it so both genders have to be represented.

If the quota only protects women then there's nothing to stop the pendulum swinging and the Dáil being 75% women.

There's no issue with the Dail being 75% women. Once it's decided by the electorate in a demoratic election that hasn't been engineered by self interested lobby groups like the National Womens Council.

mikemac2

Farming, Fisheries, Construction

The three most dangerous jobs in Ireland

All well underreprestended by women

I don't hear any women hanging off bin lorries on a November morning and talking about disparity in primary school teaching

Zebra3

How many men serve on the board of the NWCI?

I’ll assume it’s 50% because they love gender equality.

Am I right?

TomTomTim

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I think you'll find gender and skin colour reigns supreme in the old boys club. Not merit or qualification.

Leo's some man then, taking a position reserved for whites only according to you.

suicide_circus

Like any lobby or special interest group the NWCI are perfect entitled to push the interests of their constituents.

And the rest of us are perfectly entitled to ignore them.

Clarence Boddiker

Friendly reminder that the NWCI receive 729k annually from the taxpayer and 718k of that goes on wages.

suicide_circus

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Friendly reminder that the NWCI receive 729k annually from the taxpayer and 718k of that goes on wages.

ah stop that cant be true

namloc1980

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So why lock women out of the boys club because of it?

30% of candidates in the election were women but 22.5% make up the elected TDs. 26.7% of the cabinet are women so if anything women are proportionally over-representated at cabinet relative to the overall makeup of the Dáil.

Clarence Boddiker

suicide_circus wrote: »

ah stop that cant be true

It is true, the info was obtained through a freedom of Information request.

suicide_circus

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

It is true, the info was obtained through a freedom of Information request.

lol, well its no surprise really, an awful lot of NGOs and "charities" are primarily run for the benefit of their staff

LiquidZeb

TomTomTim wrote: »

Leo's some man then, taking a position reserved for whites only according to you.

One exception doesn't change the rule. Ireland's political system is deeply misogynistic and racist. We're decades behind our European allies in regards to diversity and inclusion and representation of racial and religious and sexual minorities. Call me a troll all you want I'm right.

Gruffalux

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Friendly reminder that the NWCI receive 729k annually from the taxpayer and 718k of that goes on wages.

How many people's wages. Like if it is 500 peoples wages it is not a lot :pac:

davetherave

Gruffalox wrote: »

How many people's wages. Like if it is 500 peoples wages it is not a lot :pac:

From their last submitted accounts, 15 people. With an operating deficit of €150k.

Government Funding €719,160
Department Of Justice and Equality: €519,320, for a gender equality programme. Gender equality through our work to engage with Government, provide a women's equality analysis on all policy areas, consult with women and women's organisations and to leverage additional private funds to promote women's equality.


Health Services Executive (HSE): €91,000, Grant to be used for the delivery of a service: To cover the salary costs, including pension contribution, and associated costs for two core staff positions, a full-time Health Co-ordinator and a part-time health assistant, direct costs for mobile phone expenses and overhead costs towards light, heat, rent photocopying ard audit fees. Activities budget to support the priorities areas of healthy Ireland, a focus on women in national mental health policy and practice and Violence against Women.

Pobal: €90,000, Grant to be used for the delivery of a service: To cover the salary costs, including pension contribution, and associated costs for two core staff positions, a full-time Women in Local Government and Development Co ordinator and a part-time Membership Liaison Officer, direct costs for mobile phone expenses and overhead costs towards light, heat, rent photocopying and audit fees.


Department of Rural and Community Development: €18,840, To assist in our role as a contributor to public policy as a member of the Community & Voluntary Pillar. Grant to be used towards the cost of salary of the Economic Policy Co-ordinator

Source: https://search.benefacts.ie/org/94a0834a-4cfa-42e6-967d-e4f57d46e5a3/national-womens-council-of-ireland

namloc1980

LiquidZeb wrote: »

One exception doesn't change the rule. Ireland's political system is deeply misogynistic and racist. We're decades behind our European allies in regards to diversity and inclusion and representation of racial and religious and sexual minorities. Call me a troll all you want I'm right.

We just had a Taoiseach who is of Indian heritage and currently Leo Varadkar and Roderic O'Gorman are in the cabinet and Zappone in the last one. Sexual minorities have been extremely well represented in government recently. We're well ahead of our European allies on that front.

Rubberchikken

Are we to seriously believe a majority female cabinet would be better?

Zebra3

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Friendly reminder that the NWCI receive 729k annually from the taxpayer and 718k of that goes on wages.

Jobs for the boys girls.

When you're so well funded by the government it actually means you never go all out in criticism.

Keep the game going.

Paulzx

LiquidZeb wrote: »

One exception doesn't change the rule. Ireland's political system is deeply misogynistic and racist. We're decades behind our European allies in regards to diversity and inclusion and representation of racial and religious and sexual minorities. Call me a troll all you want I'm right.

Would you go on out of that.........our PR electoral system came into being specifically to ensure representation of a religous minority.

There have been plenty of openly gay TD's elected over the last few years up to and including the former Taoiseach.

The marraige referendum proved that we as a population don't give a damn if someone is gay or straight

Edgware

Anytime Mary Lou is on the T.V. all I hear from women is "would you look at the state of her"
No point blaming men if that is how the women judge the politician.
Its not just Mary Lou. Yesterday Catherine Martin was the target. "Whats that she's wearing"

Arealred

The NWCI and all these type of organisations are in it for one thing and one thing only and that is to draw as much out if the public purse as they can. They manipulate statistics to suit. The media are partly to blame and just publish what they say as gospel without interrogating it. Often they will use extreme examples to justify their existence.

The NWCI are not the only ones at this but the wages paid directly and indirectly from taxpayers money to these bodies is frustrating.

Pherekydes

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

So why is it ok to ridicule a male majority cabinet but not ok to question a female majority senate?

Maybe you need to go count the numbers of male and female senators.

40% is not a majority.

Pherekydes

Zebra3 wrote: »

I look forward to NWCI and its' supporters campaigning for women to take 50% of jobs on building sites.

We're all mad for equality, aren't we? :rolleyes:

Equality of opportunity.