Future looks good for Simon Harris

cannotlogin

So Simon Harris no longer has to deal with the mess that is the Health Portfolio ever again and has put the poison chalice behind him at the tender age of 33.

By the time, FG get a chance to rule the country singled handily again, he won't have to cover the Health Portfolio again, the cervical cancer scandal & the cost of the children's hospital will be forgotten and he can trade of the back of the success at keeping covid19 very low in the country. Even if there is a second surge, it won't be on his watch.

It won't surprise me at all if he ends up as Taoiseach in time despite everything. Politics in this country is mind boggling.

Rows Grower

The man is after aging about 25 years in the last 3 months, he'd want to take it easy.

Pretzill

Rows Grower wrote: »

The man is after aging about 25 years in the last 3 months, he'd want to take it easy.

You could see him actually losing about 5 of those gained years today - Minister for Higher Education and Innovation must be a plum job compared to the poisoned chalice that is Health.

Eduard Khil

Education is gonna be a mess for the next year at least more if Covid19 second wave happens Colleges and Universities want to continue with fees as is even going as far as to say the costs should be higher as the courses now have to be redone and adapted for on-line participating by students. Student registration fees as in the €3000 contribution fee also still seems to be sticking yet students will be on campus very little in most cases. He is out of the frying pan and into the fire is poor Simon.

ChikiChiki

I'd hope Donnelly really goes into consultant mode in his role and makes the changes needed. He is ex Mc Kinsey so should be able to put a programme for change in place.

Rows Grower

Pretzill wrote: »

You could see him actually losing about 5 of those gained years today - Minister for Higher Education and Innovation must be a plum job compared to the poisoned chalice that is Health.

I haven't seen him today but I hope you're right.

To be honest I thought he did great job over the last number of months when we as a country needed him most.

He stepped up to the plate and carried out his duties like a seasoned politician, he didn't give off the vibe that he was engaging in theatrics as Leo did a lot of the time.

He's a young man still and has gained a lot of experience of crisis management at the top level which will stand him and us in good stead once he looks after himself.

sdanseo

Harris is one of the few politicians at the moment who strikes me as having serious integrity and I'd trust him further than most of the rest. There are few in any party I'd say that about.

Covid has clearly aged him and he deserves the country's respect. If there was an approval rating on him, it'd be through the roof.

Donnelly will have a tough act to follow although he is also well capable compared to the average FF'er and I wish him well - yes some understandable frustrations at constituency level over his party change, but to be fair, one can hardly blame him. Whatever "turncoat" comments people want to make , fact is he was far too good to be wasted on the Social Democrats.

If I could put money on it I'd say both will be either Taoiseach or Tánaiste in their lifetimes.

sabat

I'm already looking forward to his first boo-boo...

Fann Linn

What did he do? Second worst in the world after Canada for nursing home deaths and worst I the world for health care workers infection cases!

And that's after he forced the collapse of a govt.

Pretzill

Rows Grower wrote: »

I haven't seen him today but I hope you're right.

To be honest I thought he did great job over the last number of months when we as a country needed him most.

He stepped up to the plate and carried out his duties like a seasoned politician, he didn't give off the vibe that he was engaging in theatrics as Leo did a lot of the time.

He's a young man still and has gained a lot of experience of crisis management at the top level which will stand him and us in good stead once he looks after himself.

I agree and previous to Covid times I thought he was failing spectacularly but he stepped up and I think that will stand to him, at on age belieing his grey hairs (I better stop now or I may, like Varadaker quote LOTR , Heaney or somesuch)

Eduard Khil

Eduard Khil wrote: »

Education is gonna be a mess for the next year at least more if Covid19 second wave happens Colleges and Universities want to continue with fees as is even going as far as to say the costs should be higher as the courses now have to be redone and adapted for on-line participating by students. Student registration fees as in the €3000 contribution fee also still seems to be sticking yet students will be on campus very little in most cases. He is out of the frying pan and into the fire is poor Simon.

Simon won't be losing sleep over your 8 year old getting insufficient amounts of homework, when he was probably losing sleep over people on trollies in every major hospital in the land.

sabat

Fann Linn wrote: »

What did he do? Second worst in the world after Canada for nursing home deaths and worst I the world for health care workers infection cases!

It was one of the most head-scratching phenomenons of the covid threads, and right here, how poster after poster said "I think he's doing a good job." He was so obviously out of his depth and not making decisions but acting as a mouthpiece for the "experts."

touts

Looking at him today with his relieved expression and hopeful expression I couldn't but feel sorry for him.

The health service had loads of money but it is wasted in levels of inefficiency only surpassed by the higher education sector with the added complication of there genuinely not being nearly enough money.

If he thought the health unions were hard to deal with wait until he starts talking to the academic unions. If he thought the patients could be irrational wait until he has a delegation of cocky 18 year olds from the USI screaming at him across a desk.

And as for this Innovation portfolio when was the last time the Irish civil service was actually innovative. Innovation tends to happen when the government gets out of the way of the private sector. They may throw a few million at it in terms of grants and research vouchers but most of that will go through Leo's department so Simon will be left with the crumbs.

It was like watching a worn down old dog being led away into a back room by a vet while the kids are told he's going to a nice farm.

Richard Hillman

It is remarkable how is has been considered by media and thr blue ticks to have done a great job on Covid despite the fact that we have one of the highest death rates in the world. There isn't even a debate on it. It was a complete and utter disaster.

Then there is the fact that the government fell because FF were about to go with a no confidence vote on him in health, he was doing that badly.

Tell me how

sabat wrote: »

It was one of the most head-scratching phenomenons of the covid threads, and right here, how poster after poster said "I think he's doing a good job." He was so obviously out of his depth and not making decisions but acting as a mouthpiece for the "experts."

When you look at the US and UK we should thank our lucky stars we had a government who deferred to experts.

sdanseo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is remarkable how is has been considered by media and thr blue ticks to have done a great job on Covid despite the fact that we have one of the highest death rates in the world. There isn't even a debate on it. It was a complete and utter disaster.

Then there is the fact that the government fell because FF were about to go with a no confidence vote on him in health, he was doing that badly.

That's true but it preceded the Covid crisis. And crisis very much helps determine the measure of the (wo)man.

It truly is a poisoned chalice. There is such a deeply ingrained culture of waste in the HSE that nothing short of a political revolution could change it. Well beyond the power of any minister, even if you put Mahatma Gandhi in there he'd come out with a stained reputation.

*(wo) added, despite the fact that's it's a turn of phrase and I shouldn't have to, so that I don't get in trouble with the liberal gestapo.

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is remarkable how is has been considered by media and thr blue ticks to have done a great job on Covid despite the fact that we have one of the highest death rates in the world. There isn't even a debate on it. It was a complete and utter disaster.

Then there is the fact that the government fell because FF were about to go with a no confidence vote on him in health, he was doing that badly.

I haven't seen a single credible analysis that shows any such thing and yet i see it as a one-line claim everywhere


what type of concerted movement cares so little for rational fact that it could wheel out so many to tell such an obvious lie and expect to keep the respect of any onlooker?

on a totally unrelated note.....do you follow a particular political leaning yourself im asking for a friend.

ChikiChiki

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'd hope Donnelly really goes into consultant mode in his role and makes the changes needed. He is ex Mc Kinsey so should be able to put a programme for change in place.

theres three main problems with the irish public sector, two are for other threads and the third is consultants being brought over the heads of serious public service experience to brainstorm this year's wonder ideology miracle theory and waltzing off with their fees when it all goes tits up the second it hits actual public practice realities

if we spent half that money on services and the other half on hiring actual staff in those roles that would be committed through implementation and responsible for results we would be doing the state a huge service

Richard Hillman

Tell me how wrote: »

When you look at the US and UK we should thank our lucky stars we had a government who deferred to experts.

Our deaths per million isn't too far behind the U.S. We have been regularly trading positions over the last couple of months.

When you take out the microstates, they are the 7th worst in the world and we are the 9th worst

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Our deaths per million isn't too far behind the U.S. We have been regularly trading positions over the last couple of months.

When you take out the microstates, they are the 7th worst in the world and we are the 9th worst

aaaand i still havent seen a credible analysis

edit: and i missed yr answer about your own political leanings, sorry

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I haven't seen a single credible analysis that shows any such thing and yet i see it as a one-line claim everywhere


what type of concerted movement cares so little for rational fact that it could wheel out so many to tell such an obvious lie and expect to keep the respect of any onlooker?

on a totally unrelated note.....do you follow a particular political leaning yourself im asking for a friend.

9/01/2020 Rural independents were gonna pull the plug on Harris. I'm on the phone so cannot post links but just input 'Harris no confidence' into Google and you'll get all the info you need.

The_Honeybadger

Yes Harris has come out of the Covid 19 situation with a generally very positive public view of his handling of things. I’d say he hasn’t slept more than a couple of hours a night since it all started and like others have said he literally aged in front of our eyes. Either that or he just ran out of hair dye.

Donnelly has an arguably tougher job, the financial hangover is going to be excruciating and I personally don’t think he will be able for that portfolio. Would not be surprised to see him moved on in the first reshuffle. He has been very prominent in opposition on a lot of key issues in the past so I am very keen to see how he gets on. The role will make or break him.

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Our deaths per million isn't too far behind the U.S. We have been regularly trading positions over the last couple of months.

When you take out the microstates, they are the 7th worst in the world and we are the 9th worst

We are a million miles ahead of the Yanks (hardly high praise). Whatever we say may say about ourselves, and I hate FFG, we've been far more transparent than almost any country. Few other countries have let it known that we abandoned our old folks.

lol i should be clear

im awful happy that there is no such credible analysis and im certainly not googling what rural independents think in order to go seeking it

every fair and complete analysis ive seen shows ireland performing very well indeed and tbh id be absolutely gobsmacked if any line otherwise had any substance that a certain party/cadre didnt desperately wish was true but isnt.

but post it if you have it, surely.

in the meantime, harris has had a very fine few months, health is an awful posting and he should hopefully enjoy a bit of a break before going head to head with coveney in November for the leadership

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

lol i should be clear

im awful happy that there is no such credible analysis and im certainly not googling what rural independents think in order to go seeking it

every fair and complete analysis ive seen shows ireland performing very well indeed and tbh id be absolutely gobsmacked if any line otherwise had any substance that a certain party/cadre didnt desperately wish was true but isnt.

but post it if you have it, surely.

in the meantime, harris has had a very fine few months, health is an awful posting and he should hopefully enjoy a bit of a break before going head to head with coveney in November for the leadership

Sound. Wallow in the hype.

joeysoap

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Our deaths per million isn't too far behind the U.S. We have been regularly trading positions over the last couple of months.

When you take out the microstates, they are the 7th worst in the world and we are the 9th worst

But the difference is widening by the day. At one stage the orange one even mentioned us as being worse than them, something he can never say again. A lot of our deaths happened early on, before see started dealing with it properly, and the nursing homes were a disgrace. Hopefully we have learned something

sdanseo

Deleted User wrote: »

theres three main problems with the irish public sector, two are for other threads and the third is consultants being brought over the heads of serious public service experience to brainstorm this year's wonder ideology miracle theory and waltzing off with their fees when it all goes tits up the second it hits actual public practice realities

if we spent half that money on services and the other half on hiring actual staff in those roles that would be committed through implementation and responsible for results we would be doing the state a huge service

Disagree entirely.

There are committed public servants and there are surplus public servants.
Where the venn diagram overlaps those excess staff should be redeployed.
Where anything else is true they should be dispensed with.

For sure, too much is spent on consultancy. But mostly, that is due to the exercise being repeated, often multiple times, because not enough progress (or often, none at all) is made implementing the recommendations of the first consultant.

Just look at Metro as an inane example.
The entire route was surveyed and detailed engineering plans drawn up many years ago. It was existentially ready for diggers and shovels.
Then the entire thing was redone, and of course rebranded, because politics demanded it due to a GAA pitch being out of service for 2-3 years (ironically, it is now out of service anyway).

Richard Hillman

joeysoap wrote: »

But the difference is widening by the day. At one stage the orange one even mentioned us as being worse than them, something he can never say again. A lot of our deaths happened early on, before see started dealing with it properly, and the nursing homes were a disgrace. Hopefully we have learned something

That's fair enough with the US response but we were still an absolute disaster compared to about 90% of the other countries. When we are comparing to countries surrounding Italy like Slovenia, Croatia and Austria they are in a total different league than us. Croatia have 1m less population than us and only have had 107 deaths, we have had 1734 deaths.

I don't want to derail the thread on Harris but I cannot have this narrative that the country did a great job when it was an absolute complete cluster****.

jmayo

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'd hope Donnelly really goes into consultant mode in his role and makes the changes needed. He is ex Mc Kinsey so should be able to put a programme for change in place.

What fooking age are you?
Do you still believe in Santa ?

No politician can make the changes needed because they would be fired immediately for daring to take on all the vested interests that has the HSE and health service the way it is.
and that includes the nurses, the consultants, the admin staff, the tech staff, the whole lot who run to their unions or representative body if someone tires to make the slightest change.

And as for the spoofer donnelly who as the Indians used to say speaks with "forked tongue".
I still remember the night I met him at a Wicklow door to look for a vote in 2011 when he lambasted fianna fail and what they had done.

Yeah he was quick enough to jump into bed with them to further his career.

And as for harris taking over education, he hasn't shown much interest in education to date.
In fact he didn't seem that bothered kids in his own town don't have secondary school places, an issue that was apparent years ago but hasn't been dealt with and means kids will now spend three years in prefabs.

the only one that seems to have done anything for anyone in that neck of the woods is the new TD Whitmore.

smurgen

Tell me how wrote: »

When you look at the US and UK we should thank our lucky stars we had a government who deferred to experts.

195 countries in the world and we’re being compared to those in the top 5 worst Covid situation. Convenient!

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I haven't seen a single credible analysis that shows any such thing and yet i see it as a one-line claim everywhere


what type of concerted movement cares so little for rational fact that it could wheel out so many to tell such an obvious lie and expect to keep the respect of any onlooker?

on a totally unrelated note.....do you follow a particular political leaning yourself im asking for a friend.

Here ya go buddy. Top ten worst performance, Simon done a great job! https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Blanco100

Harris has no third level education and zero professional experience prior to being a TD.

Only in Ireland.

christy c

smurgen wrote: »

Here ya go buddy. Top ten worst performance, Simon done a great job! https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

From the link you provided "This table aims to provide a complete picture on the topic, but it very much relies on data that has become more difficult to compare".

And this coming from yourself who was stupid enough to think Boris Johnson was making us look bad. If the topic wasn't so serious, your ramblings would be funny.

Jinglejangle69

Blanco100 wrote: »

Harris has no third level education and zero professional experience prior to being a TD.

Only in Ireland.

Third level education??

And what?

Most dimwits I know think they are great because they have a degree.

They barely manage to dress themselves in the morning...

Poor_old_gill

I can just picture the scene in Parnell square yesterday:

SF having to try cover up another embarrassing story about one of their party members- this time being the racist homophobe holohan and not the anti vaxers/5G conspiracy theorists, etc- set their shinner bots free.

Go forth and start as many negative online threads as you can about FF/FG/GP, give us loads of ra/anti Brit memes on twitter and Facebook, engage in loads of whatsboutery & completely avoid the current SF issues and finally - start insinuating nonsense to try stoke anger against the government.

“Fly my pretties, fly”

This thread & OP are the perfect manifestation of that

Jinglejangle69

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I can just picture the scene in Parnell square yesterday:

SF having to try cover up another embarrassing story about one of their party members- this time being the racist homophobe holohan and not the anti vaxers/5G conspiracy theorists, etc- set their shinner bots free.

Go forth and start as many negative online threads as you can about FF/FG/GP, give us loads of ra/anti Brit memes on twitter and Facebook, engage in loads of whatsboutery & completely avoid the current SF issues and finally - start insinuating nonsense to try stoke anger against the government.

“Fly my pretties, fly”

This thread & OP are the perfect manifestation of that

And mentioning "change" 597 times in one day.

#NoTmYtAOisEaCh

is_that_so

Blanco100 wrote: »

Harris has no third level education and zero professional experience prior to being a TD.

Only in Ireland.

We've had about 5 MoH who were doctors and only one of them proved to be any good so yeah only in Ireland.

Poor_old_gill

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And mentioning "change" 597 times in one day.

#NoTmYtAOisEaCh

“And if someone asks me about what the change is?”

“Ah just tell them that they wouldn’t understand cos they are against change and the people voted for change and they are not change, they are just the same old”

“So empty deflectionary, non- committal nonsense?”

“You bet ya”

retalivity

Blanco100 wrote: »

Harris has no third level education and zero professional experience prior to being a TD.

Only in Ireland.

Dont think ive seen anyone fail upwards so spectacularly. He was a disaster in health, completely out of his depth. Giving way to experts and being a mouthpiece since March is the only competent thing he has done. Sure he thought it was the 19th strain of covid when he went off talking of his own accord.

Despite that, hes nailed on to be future fg leader after leo/simon. All about the optics

iebamm2580

Did we not do crapin the crisis considering we are an island nation? Very surprised he doesn't have college degree, thought he would be the phd type.

cannotlogin

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Go forth and start as many negative online threads as you can about FF/FG/GP, give us loads of ra/anti Brit memes on twitter and Facebook, engage in loads of whatsboutery & completely avoid the current SF issues and finally - start insinuating nonsense to try stoke anger against the government.

“Fly my pretties, fly”

This thread & OP are the perfect manifestation of that

Nonsense. I'm anti SF, not overly keen on the greens or FF, and my tolerance for FG is only because I think they are the best of a bad lot.

The Bishop Basher

jmayo wrote: »

the only one that seems to have done anything for anyone in that neck of the woods is the new TD Whitmore.

Having personally dealt with Harris, Donnelly and Whitmore I would agree with this.

Harris had zero credentials but was seen as young, eager and full of promise by his constituency when he was first voted in. He was fast tracked into cabinet by Enda but he’s never really shown any flare since then. He’s a yes man and will do as he’s told in order to climb the ranks. Like it or not, it’s a strategy that appears to be working well for him so far.

Donnelly was another new face that offered hope and sense at a time when Ireland was being stripped of its economic sovereignty. He appeared to be on “our” side and was often the voice of reason on the VB show but none of it ever actually amounted to anything other than being a large thorn in Noonan’s side. Maybe because he was independent. He certainly has the professional credentials and experience to allow him make an impact but can he take on the unions ?

Whitmore is a genuine, decent and honest person who has worked tirelessly for her community at county council level. I have mixed feelings about the SD decision to stay away from government formation talks. I believe it was the correct decision on an ethical level but it could cost them if the electorate decide to punish them next time out. I sincerely hope the SD party grows and thrives as we desperately need alternatives in our political landscape, now more then ever. I don’t agree with all of their policies but I’d take them over FFFGG any day..

Poor_old_gill

cannotlogin wrote: »

Nonsense. I'm anti SF, not overly keen on the greens or FF, and my tolerance for FG is only because I think they are the best of a bad lot.

Sure.

Mortelaro

sabat wrote: »

It was one of the most head-scratching phenomenons of the covid threads, and right here, how poster after poster said "I think he's doing a good job." He was so obviously out of his depth and not making decisions but acting as a mouthpiece for the "experts."

Why do you have experts in inverted comma's
Do you know better than them?

LiquidZeb

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Our deaths per million isn't too far behind the U.S. We have been regularly trading positions over the last couple of months.

When you take out the microstates, they are the 7th worst in the world and we are the 9th worst

Shh no don't say that. Just keep chanting leo and Simon are playing a blinder over and over despite all the evidence of the contrary.

LiquidZeb

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Did we not do crapin the crisis considering we are an island nation? Very surprised he doesn't have college degree, thought he would be the phd type.

Why get a qualification when you can hop on the bandwagon of being a td and minister despite no experience or qualification justifying your appointment. Then you can **** up a major crisis and still have people tell you your **** smells like Chanel no. 5

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Our deaths per million isn't too far behind the U.S. We have been regularly trading positions over the last couple of months.

When you take out the microstates, they are the 7th worst in the world and we are the 9th worst

And the US deaths continue to rapidly increase. We're not rapidly increasing as we got a handle on it. The US was behind us around two weeks ago. Our number has barely grown and the same cannot be said of them.

Blanco100

Stephen Donnelly might not be to most peoples taste but I think hes a smarter man. Hes not a salesman like Harris is (whose real talent is selling whatever line senior public servants concoct and making it palatable).

Prefer government ministers to have mind of their own and be a bit independently creative in their solutions.

Blanco100

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Third level education??

And what?

Most dimwits I know think they are great because they have a degree.

They barely manage to dress themselves in the morning...

The man became a TD on the back of his promises to make major changes in the area of support for those with special needs. Its an area close to his own families heart. This was whilst he was in his early 20s.

He swiftly dropped that line as he played the game and climbed the ranks. Wouldnt even call him a snake oil salesman as it would infer some intelligence.

Blanco100

is_that_so wrote: »

We've had about 5 MoH who were doctors and only one of them proved to be any good so yeah only in Ireland.

People think im referring to zero prior professional experience in health.

He has had zero prior working experience in literally anything. Thats a fact.

mountai

He backed Tony O Brien to the hilt . Says it all for me .