The National Party

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160379#Comment_122160379

Except we can say it was a hoax as there's no evidence of an attempted abduction. When you posted it, there was no proof of an abduction attempt.... So you were spreading lies ultimately.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160379#Comment_122160379

For the THIRD time: how do you justify witnessing a child being kidnapped and thinking, "great! This is perfect for Twitter!", instead of calling for help?

And how do you justify IGNORING posts that highlight your blatant bias and logical fallacies if you like robust deate?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160403#Comment_122160403

Fair point. I'm just a bit fed up of hearing extreme positions being dressed up as sensible solutions. I live in the UK where the government has spaffed away all of its political capital to send a few hundred people to Rwanda while there is an asylum application processing list of almost 150,000.

The FF-FG thing isn't a viable long term solution as when people get fed up of them, they'll vote for someone else like Sinn Féin. The Irish far right looks too clustered to be an effective force right now. So far, we have the NP, The Irish People, the Irexiter freedom party and Ireland First with some independents here and there. We should be safe enough for the next election but something will have to change. I tried to move to the Netherlands a few times recently and they've a worse housing crisis than Ireland and the UK and they've now got the most right wing government in Western Europe so something will have to change and change soon.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160464#Comment_122160464

People have to start asking the question: why are further right parties becoming more popular in Europe?

It's not happening in a vacuum.

If you don't want further right parties (and by that, I mean more centre-right than usual; all the way to far-right) to gain support and enter government, then perhaps it would be better to address the reasons why more and more European voters are opting for right-wing parties.

Because once those voter concerns are addressed, support for those parties would collapse overnight.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160464#Comment_122160464

That's the problem. Yeah, the currect solution isn't working but this idea that an extreme one will…? And not one candidate has come forward to say HOW they're going to change things or implement their ideas and their supporters don't even have the desire to actually ask.

FF/FG aren't working because they aren't clued in enough / strong enough, but then neither is anyone else; which is why I say it'll be a mess.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160480#Comment_122160480

That was answered to be fair: extreme solutions dressed up as sensible solutions.

Also, you just have to look at beechwoodpark's complete refusal to accept logic when it comes to debate to see exactly what level their supports are at in terms of sheer denial. That helps their cause too.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160513#Comment_122160513

As Frankie Boyle once said, protest voting like defecating your bed because you're angry about it. At the end of the day, you have to lie in it.

In fairness to the big two, none of Europe's governing parties have cracked it.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160340#Comment_122160340

And yet, every professional opinion poll that has been carried out tells a fairly different story. It's almost as if self-selecting polls don't tell the full story.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160379#Comment_122160379

Does the fact that Gardai didn't arrest anyone for kidnapping, only a drunk for a public order offence, challenge the credibility at all for you?

Does the fact that Pepper is extremely selective about the incidents he chooses to report on raise any questions for you about whether his concern for the victims of attacks is genuine?

paul71

I am honestly baffled that it requires 130 pages to explain to people that Neo-Nazis, Fascists or Nazis are simply just bad people.

The only conclusion that I come to is that the bona videos of those defending them are not worthy of credence, and that they themselves are not in fact curious voters, but are in fact themselves fascists.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160379#Comment_122160379

Again - He was arrested for Drunk and Disorderly behaviour and NOTHING ELSE.

So absolutely nothing in the video that you found "credible" is within an arses roar of the truth.

There have been 3 or 4 "reports" of apparent "attempted child abductions" in the last week or two promoted on social media by far right trolls and not one of them has seen a single person give a statement to Gardai to corroborate these claims.

But, according to you , these are "credible" people.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160770#Comment_122160770

It doesn't. Everyone know what they are at this point. The problem is that that's why some people want to promote them.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160784#Comment_122160784

Do you think he doesn't know that the lad was only arrested on public disorder? It's bad faith posting to the extreme on his part. Why repeat that he was arrested as if it's going to help your argument when you are putting forward the kidnapping fake story and you know he wasn't arrested for that? Only one reason I can think of.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160784#Comment_122160784

Theres been more credible leprechaun sightings.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160379#Comment_122160379

Yet again you are implying there was an attempted child abduction and someone was arrested in connection to this.

Yet time and again it's been shown none of this happened.

You're debating in bad faith, ignoring anything that shows you to be wrong and repeating the same falsehoods. You and those wannabe tough guys are perfect for each other.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160847#Comment_122160847

Up to 36% of the Irish electorate have expressed concerns about migration — hence the increase in support for the National Party.

In your view, are all those 36% simply "fascists", "Actual Nazis", and far-right scumbags?

If not, why not?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163141#Comment_122163141

Just to note, it's unlikely that any of the bat **** insane parties will get elected in the European or local elections. The things they're more likely to continue is arson attacks or harassing library staff etc. Weirdly that doesn't seem to register as a concern. But the rhetoric still has the effect of Ireland potentially facing more violent attacks by individuals associated with such parties. There's at least one serious violent crime associated with them as of late btw.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163179#Comment_122163179

With respect, that doesn't address any of the questions and data I referenced.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163206#Comment_122163206

Your point was entirely irrelevant to the poster you responded to who was criticizing individuals who are actively trying to promote the national party. People who want them in power support fascism in some form. Just because you get offended that their supporters get referred to as far right, doesn't mean they're not.

People can have concerns about migration. That 36% most likely have varying degrees of extremity on it. The fraction of them that are out rioting, spreading propaganda about kidnappings, harassing library library staff or picketing politician's homes or just being outright racist or xenophobic are the ones that are far right. Fyi, the far right right candidates only max out at maybe 4% of the vote.

The Phantom Jipper

I have to laugh at these videos that get shared or recommended where the guy is an "interesting candidate" or "makes a good point". And then you actually watch it and it invariably ends up being the biggest bowsey and scumbag the city has to offer

francois

Looking forward to the rage tweeting, semi coherent insta reels and general dribbling as the fash lose their deposits.

Stolen election, MSM and other predictable excuses incoming. They think bots and far right accounts from Uk US and Canada will somehow translate into a glorious far right revolution.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163294#Comment_122163294

Yep, I'd say that posters are greatly overestimating the vote share they'll get.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163206#Comment_122163206

"Concerned about Immigration" covers a multitude.

One could be concerned that we aren't providing decent accommodation to asylum seekers leaving them in tents etc.

One could be concerned that the process of Asylum verification takes too long and as such is unfair to all involved

One could be concerned that we are wasting huge amounts of money and being incredibly inefficient in the whole process.

Those concerns are reasonable and warrant discussion and answers/plans from Elected officials and candidates for office.

However there are those whose concerns are not those things - They say things like "Ireland for the Irish" and "Go back to where you came from" and "They're all rapists and paedos" or use terminology like "Fighting Age male". Or even invent stories of attempted kidnappings and assaults to create anger and confusion.

Do I need to explain to you which of the above concerns are those of Racist Xenophobic arseholes or can you work that out for yourself??

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163141#Comment_122163141

So 64% are not concerned. That seems to reflect my opinion of general sentiment.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163141#Comment_122163141

I am reminded of an apt description of the brexit debate in the UK. Not all Brexiteers are xenophobes but all xenophobes will vote for Brexit.

When discussion the National party it quote can take a little more Nuance. Not all racist scum will vote for The National Party, but all who will vote for them are racist scum, and those who shill for them are also racist scum.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163206#Comment_122163206

That's because you made another irrelevant statistical post.

The poster said that 1) nazis/neo-nazis/fascists et al are bad people, and 2) people who spread videos must only be doing do so because they're fascists.

Now, had they said "people who have concerns about immigration" are 1) nazis/bad people, or 2) are spreading the videos, your stat would have been relvelant; but they didn't, so it's not.

Case in point: I have concerns about immigration but I'm not a fascist or spreading videos.

(Alternatively, it would be relevant if you could prove that all 36% of those with concerns were expressing said concerns by supporting the far-right parites, but I'm guessing the figure's not that high)

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163625#Comment_122163625

Yep, none of the far right candidates are polling particularly well. Think concerned has run away for a bit.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163141#Comment_122163141

Those with "concerns" - fine. Those who have expressed support for the National party - scumbags.

ancapailldorcha

The "genuine concerns" thing is one of the biggest lies going. People have genuine concerns about fascists but we get told not to worry about it. People have genuine concerns about local transport and services but the NP folks couldn't care less.

Are some concerns more genuine than others?

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163437#Comment_122163437

People obsessed about asylum seekers in this country do opt for the National Party. That's undeniable. As you say, there are legitimate issues regarding asylum that do need to be addressed.

But that's not my primary concern though, nor most people's concern — and that larger cohort of the population do not support the National Party for that very reason.

Lumping us all together is both wrong and absurd in equal measure.

Beechwoodspark

another candidate worth having a look at is the former DJ Niall Boylan - he has some good common sense policies as far as I can see and he seems decent.