Getting Covid a second time. So much for Antibodies?

ShineOn7

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/wwe-announcer-kayla-braxton-says-she-had-coronavirus-twice/


So if getting this and surviving it doesn't give you any protection after, where the feck does that leave us?



Vaccine or bust?

ShineOn7

Protective immune responses that build up during a SARS-CoV-2 infection may weaken just two to three months later—particularly if the infection didn’t come with any symptoms, a new study suggests.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/immunity-to-covid-19-may-wane-just-2-3-months-after-infection-study-suggests/

Further reading https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6

Bit cynical

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Vaccine or bust?

Could mean that a vaccine will also not be very effective.

mloc123

I 100% believe somebody posting on Instagram that she has caught it twice.... 100%
Instagram types are not known for seeking attention at all

ShineOn7

Bit cynical wrote: »

Could mean that a vaccine will also not be very effective.

Why is that?

ShineOn7

mloc123 wrote: »

I 100% believe somebody posting on Instagram that she has caught it twice.... 100%
Instagram types are not known for seeking attention at all

Jaysus

It's the New York Post, I'm sure they did a little bit of fact checking

She's also far from the first to get it twice

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/24/woman-tests-positive-for-covid-19-twice-nr-baldwin-intv-vpx.cnn

mloc123

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Jaysus

It's the New York Post, I'm sure they did a little bit of fact checking

She's also far from the first to get it twice

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/24/woman-tests-positive-for-covid-19-twice-nr-baldwin-intv-vpx.cnn

They literally quote her Instagram post as the source...

Bit cynical

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Why is that?

Because many vaccines are designed to stimulate the immune system in a way similar to catching the virus. Some produce a mild form of the disease for example. But if "So much for antibodies!" as you say then this may not bode well for the development of a vaccine with lasting effect.

Not an expert so I stand to be corrected.

ShineOn7

mloc123 wrote: »

They literally quote her Instagram post as the source...

Why would someone working on TV for a publicly traded company lie about something so serious when said company recently tested loads of their staff?

This company had several staffers test positive

This company is based in Florida, a place riddled with it

And - her and this company aside - what about the others who got it twice?

ixoy

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's the New York Post, I'm sure they did a little bit of fact checking

I don't think the New York Post is seen particularly highly - I get the impression it's more of a tabloid, as opposed to the New York Times. That often leaders to weaker investigative journalism.

Springy Turf

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's the New York Post, I'm sure they did a little bit of fact checking

The New York Post is a Murdoch owned celebrity rag. I doubt they are too worried about facts.

Utopia Parkway

Bit cynical wrote: »

Could mean that a vaccine will also not be very effective.

I believe Oxford University said their vaccine should last about a year. So booster shots would be required after that.

Bit cynical

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I believe Oxford University said their vaccine should last about a year. So booster shots would be required after that.

Well I would hope they are correct, but if we don't know in advance how long natural Covid-19 immunity might last, how would the team at Oxford know in advance how long their vaccine will work? What assumptions are they making in their estimate?

If it turned out that natural immunity from the virus only lasts a couple of months which is not yet fully fact, then this may have an impact on the Oxford team's estimate.

drunkmonkey

Headline the other day warning Asians about the euro strain..

WARNING! D614G Mutation Coronavirus Strains From Europe Could Render Those Recovered From Earlier Strains Defenseless

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.20.161323v1

Utopia Parkway

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well I would hope they are correct, but if we don't know in advance how long natural Covid-19 immunity might last, how would the team at Oxford know in advance how long their vaccine will work? What assumptions are they making in their estimate?

If it turned out that natural immunity from the virus only lasts a couple of months which is not yet fully fact, then this may have an impact on the Oxford team's estimate.

They are the experts. I would imagine they know what they are doing.

I believe the amount of antibodies their vaccine is meant to produce is significant compared to someone who might be asymptotic or only has a mild illness due to Covid. But those antibodies will still fade over time.

ShineOn7

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Headline the other day warning Asians about the euro strain..

WARNING! D614G Mutation Coronavirus Strains From Europe Could Render Those Recovered From Earlier Strains Defenseless

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.20.161323v1

So much clickbait with every single website these days. I can barely find exceptions to it online anymore

It's a clown show

Bit cynical

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

They are the experts. I would imagine they know what they are doing.

I believe the amount of antibodies their vaccine is meant to produce is significant compared to someone who might be asymptotic or only has a mild illness due to Covid. But those antibodies will still fade over time.

I hope you are correct and that whatever vaccine is produced confers a lasting immunity.

But even when experts of world renown make estimates, they are based on what is known at the time and the rest is (hopefully stated) assumptions. So the estimate might be based on the assumption that a fairly long lasting immunity is gained through catching the virus. As new information comes in the estimates are adjusted.

I would still maintain that long lasting immunity from the virus itself bodes well for the development of a vaccine with long lasting immunity.

I would also suggest that multiple strains of the virus - which could be the cause of repeat infections - will also make development of a vaccine harder.

Again, not an expert and open to correction.

Speak Now

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Jaysus

It's the New York Post, I'm sure they did a little bit of fact checking

She's also far from the first to get it twice

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/24/woman-tests-positive-for-covid-19-twice-nr-baldwin-intv-vpx.cnn

You know that's New York's version of The Sun so fact checking wouldn't be a thing!

Deeper Blue

If people could get it twice I'm fairly sure there'd be a more credible source for this than a wrestling announcer.

ShineOn7

NDWC wrote: »

If people could get it twice I'm fairly sure there'd be a more credible source for this than a wrestling announcer.

I've linked another example

Away With The Fairies

If you can get this twice, would that mean it wouldn't lie dormant to reactivate in the future?

the.red.baron

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

If you can get this twice, would that mean it wouldn't lie dormant to reactivate in the future?

In your case anythings possible

You can get chickenpox more than once,but most people dont


Could be something similar?

Minier81

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can get chickenpox more than once,but most people dont


Could be something similar?

Good point. And you can get a chicken pox vaccine, which you get once (well 2 doses) and it's a once off vaccine, about 90% effective I believe.

is_that_so

This type of claim goes way back to China in February or March where they found something similar. They blamed the tests.

the.red.baron

Anyone with a confirmed case?

is_that_so

the.red.baron wrote: »

Anyone with a confirmed case?

A second infection? Don't believe so.

Away With The Fairies

the.red.baron wrote: »

In your case anythings possible

What exactly do you mean by your comment?

the.red.baron

Just look at your username and post history for all the detail you need

FVP3

Its more likely to be a testing issue, but even if a tiny amount of people dont get anti-bodies it doesnt mean we all don't.

Beasty

This has been discussed numerous times over the past 5 months or so. No-one knows enough about this virus to understand how it evolves, or what immunity, if any, infection offers

JP Liz V1

I was sure there was already talk of Italy and China carriers getting twice

Beasty

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I was sure there was already talk of Italy and China carriers getting twice

Yes, along with people who understand pandemics suggesting it's not clear if the relevant people had ever been completely cured in the first place. Very much "old news"

Talisman

My niece had the virus in April. As a requirement for a job she took in May, she had to have an antibody test. The medical technician that administered the test told her that after 6 weeks the antibody levels drop off dramatically so the test they were using is only effective during that period.

I'm not a medical expert but if the antibodies are no longer detectable it stands to reason that you are no longer immune to infection.

normanoffside

Talisman wrote: »

My niece had the virus in April. As a requirement for a job she took in May, she had to have an antibody test. The medical technician that administered the test told her that after 6 weeks the antibody levels drop off dramatically so the test they were using is only effective during that period.

I'm not a medical expert but if the antibodies are no longer detectable it stands to reason that you are no longer immune to infection.

Your T Cells have memory and can quickly reproduce an immune response.

Ineedaname

There is no hard evidence of reinfection. There are plenty of anecdotal stories but they are exactly that. Anecdotes. They are not evidence of anything and can usually be explained by false positives.

Akrasia

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Jaysus

It's the New York Post, I'm sure they did a little bit of fact checking

She's also far from the first to get it twice

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/24/woman-tests-positive-for-covid-19-twice-nr-baldwin-intv-vpx.cnn

Lol,
The NY Post, is not the New York Times in the same way that the Washington Times is not the same as the Washington Post

The NYPost is a a right wing tabloid rag, as is the Washington Times

bb1234567

I think if there was re-infection we would have at least a considerable number of verified accounts of it having occurred in hotspots like New York, London, Italy, Spain

Hmmzis

Talisman wrote: »

My niece had the virus in April. As a requirement for a job she took in May, she had to have an antibody test. The medical technician that administered the test told her that after 6 weeks the antibody levels drop off dramatically so the test they were using is only effective during that period.

I'm not a medical expert but if the antibodies are no longer detectable it stands to reason that you are no longer immune to infection.

Not really, the test itself is the problem.
If a sensitive enough test is used the antibodies get detected 8+ weeks after.
The problem is that there is a big difference in AB titers depending on disease severity. More severe disease, more antibodies in serum.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-2211_article

On the other hand, the T cell response is inveresely correlated with disease severity:

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

T cells kick in well before antibodies get produced, so if they did the job well there would be a lesser need for the body to produce a high volume of antibodies.

Deep Thought

A lot of people who are testing positive a second time seems to be issue with the test the 1st time