Why do people love hating on monuments we inherited from British rule.

Sean.3516

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

riffmongous

Was Britain defeating Napoleon good for Ireland? Would we have had the Famine under French rule I wonder

James Brown

TBF any plaque with Haughey or Dev on it turns my stomach.

Many of these statues are put up by the business community patting themselves on the back or people made them money. Then you have to consider a general public who didn't even have a vote, were likely not consulted on this kind of thing either.

One eyed Jack

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

It’s equally the height of obliviousness to history to argue that people shouldn’t be bothered by having a constant reminder of the shìtty things the British Government at the time were responsible for inflicting upon Irish society.

Granted we haven’t done much better with national monuments ourselves since, the spire being a good example of poor taste and a pointless commemoration of nothing in particular.

Napoleon has gotten caught up in the British military jingoism and people seem to equate him to the likes of Hitler.

It'd take quite a compelling argument to convince me that we'd have been worse off had Napoleon won.

endacl

1. Nelson’s pillar in Dublin wasn’t put up by the British. It was Dublin corporation that erected it.

2. ‘Hating on’. Please don’t use that particular combination of words. Make’s you sound stupid.

^^

Both irrelevant. Carry on.

DesperateDan

endacl wrote: »

2. ‘Hating on’. Please don’t use that particular combination of words. Make’s you sound stupid.

The kids talk like this now Enda

TheBoyConor

Any benefit that might have accrued to ireland owing to the activities of the British and their forces, would very much have been an unintended by-product. And you can also be sure that any positives would have been to the imported anglo Irish settlers and their descendants rather that to the native irish.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Napoleon has gotten caught up in the British military jingoism and people seem to equate him to the likes of Hitler.

It'd take quite a compelling argument to convince me that we'd have been worse off had Napoleon won.

A reformer, with a tremedous intellect. While he had his flaws he was frequently a force for good. His awarding station by merit in the army and civil service rather than wealth and title scared the Brits senseless.

Nelson's Pillar was a very nice looking monument. I think it should be rebuilt with Luke Kelly atop.

theological

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

A slightly controversial point, but I think there's a general reluctance to consider Irish history that isn't republican or nationalist history.

There are a couple of unquestionable sacred cows in that republican history also. For example the legitimacy of the 1916 Easter Rising considering that most Dubliners were opposed to it.

It would be a healthy thing for Ireland if there was more acceptance of the idea that there was a history before independence and that it wasn't exclusively negative. It would be a good step in maturing our considerations of the past.

Harry Palmr

Hating on....:( Do the kids really speak like this now?

buried

Probably because when the came over here in the 16th Century they blew up plenty of things themselves. Look at what the thugs did to some if not all of the most beautiful stone abbeys in Ireland at the time, fantastic stone buildings such as the Abbey in Claregalway, ransacked, looted and burnt. Irish monuments got thrashed here first by them, so don't be selective in your History.

TheBoyConor

A little lesson now on Irish history

1. Prechristian celtic ireland, the time of mythical figures like Queen Meabh and Cu Chulainn.
2. St patrick came then in 432 to convert us and get rid of all the snakes (of course, snakes is a metaphor for protestants, who he foresaw)
3. Then we were the land of saints and scholars for a few hundred years.
4. Then you had the norman invasion, but really they were the English.
5. Then you had the English plantations, Oliver Cromwell & the Flight of the Earls.
6. Then you had the Battle of the Boyne, which was really just the English fighting amongst themselves at the expense of the Irish.
7. Then you had 1798 and the British oppressing us again.
8. Then the brits build canals and railways all over the place, so that it would handy for them to....
9. ...steal all our potatoes resulting in the Great Potato famine when everyone either died or fúcked off to America to become Yanks.
10. The then men of 1916, followed by the men of 1919-1921
11. Then the Queen decided to steal the 7 counties of ulster while Mick Collins and DeValera were having a fight in a car park in west cork.
12. Then there was the civil war when everybody shot their blueshirt cousins.
13. The time of the bother.
14. Then you had Devalera and John Charles McQuaid making us all into alter boys and communion brides.
15. D'emergency.
16. TB
17. Emigration when everybody's uncles and brothers went to work on building sites in London and drank themselves to death.
18. Unemployment.
19. D'troubles was when Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams weren't in d'RA
20. Italia 90 and Jackies Army, when we all were fond of english jack because he taught the boys how to play soccer properly. Probably the high point in Irish History.
21. The Celtic Tiger - was when Eddie Hobbs made us all think we were finally better than the English.
22. The recession - was when re realised he was talking shíte and we we still just all culchies.
23. Then the boom came back and no-one would get out of bed for less than €500 a day
24. Now we have covid, and everyone has nothing else to do only lie in bed all day.

That is basically Irish History.

Tl;dr, everything that ever went wrong is because of the Brits and everything that went right was down to the men of 1916 and all the patriots who have died before in the Irish wars.

FVP3

If we hadnt got rid of them they would be all a-toppling now. Ireland is clearly ahead of the curve on statue destruction.

FVP3

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A little lesson now on Irish history

Prechristian celtic ireland, the time of mythical figures like Queen Meabh and Cu Chulainn chasing a bull around a field in .
St patrick came then in 432 to convert us and get rid of all the snakes (of course, snakes is a metaphor for protestants, who he foresaw)
Then we were the land of saints and scholars for a few hundred years.
Then you had the norman invasion, but really they were the English.
Then you had the English plantations, Oliver Cromwell & the Flight of the Earls.
Then you had the Battle of the Boyne, which was really just the English fighting amongst themselves at the expense of the Irish.
Then you had 1798 and the British oppressing us again.
Then you had the famine, when the British stole all our potatoes.
The then men of 1916, followed by the men of 1919-1921
Then the Queen decided to steal the 7 counties of ulster while Mick Collins and DeValera were having a fight in a car park in west cork.
Then there was the civil war when everybody shot their blueshirt cousins.
The time of the bother.
Then you had Devalera and John Charles McQuaid making us all into alter boys and communion brides.
D'emergency.
TB
Emigration.
Unemployment.
D'troubles.
The celtic tiger.
The recession.
Then the boom came back.
Now we have covid.

That is basically Irish History.

Tl;dr, everything that ever went wrong is because of the Brits and everything that went right was down to the men of 1916 and all the patriots who have died before in the Irish wars.

I've read worse.

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A little lesson now on Irish history

Prechristian celtic ireland, the time of mythical figures like Queen Meabh and Cu Chulainn.
St patrick came then in 432 to convert us and get rid of all the snakes (of course, snakes is a metaphor for protestants, who he foresaw)
Then we were the land of saints and scholars for a few hundred years.
Then you had the norman invasion, but really they were the English.
Then you had the English plantations, Oliver Cromwell & the Flight of the Earls.
Then you had the Battle of the Boyne, which was really just the English fighting amongst themselves at the expense of the Irish.
Then you had 1798 and the British oppressing us again.
Then the brits build canals and railways all over the place, so that it would handy for them to....
...steal all our potatoes resulting in the Great Potato famine when everyone either died or fúcked off to America
The then men of 1916, followed by the men of 1919-1921
Then the Queen decided to steal the 7 counties of ulster while Mick Collins and DeValera were having a fight in a car park in west cork.
Then there was the civil war when everybody shot their blueshirt cousins.
The time of the bother.
Then you had Devalera and John Charles McQuaid making us all into alter boys and communion brides.
D'emergency.
TB
Emigration when everybody's uncles and brothers went to work on building sites in London and drank themselves to death.
Unemployment.
D'troubles.
Jackie's Army.
The celtic tiger.
The recession.
Then the boom came back.
Now we have covid.

That is basically Irish History.

Tl;dr, everything that ever went wrong is because of the Brits and everything that went right was down to the men of 1916 and all the patriots who have died before in the Irish wars.

Slight amendment.

Coillte_Bhoy

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

Why from an Irish perspective do you regard these as 'good'? Oh and i think you'll find the Brits had more than just a bit of help in those victories

Pkiernan

riffmongous wrote: »

Was Britain defeating Napoleon good for Ireland? Would we have had the Famine under French rule I wonder

Yes, because France treated all of its colonies so well...

These people offer nothing to the world,why would we want monuments to remember them?


From aughnacloy to basra and back again,the british have left a trail of destruction across the world

Pkiernan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

These people offer nothing to the world,why would we want monuments to remember them?


From aughnacloy to basra and back again,the british have left a trail of destruction across the world

Here we go. Self pity.

o1s1n

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nelson's Pillar was a very nice looking monument. I think it should be rebuilt with Luke Kelly atop.

And you'd still get kids from Sheriff street scaling it to give him some spray paint glasses

Rubberchikken

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

Their might came in handy at times of war.
Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

Yes mistakes were made but you can't make an omelette without breaking the eggs.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

joseywhales

riffmongous wrote: »

Was Britain defeating Napoleon good for Ireland? Would we have had the Famine under French rule I wonder

We would have had Free education instead in fact

Vestiapx

What are the 7 counties of Ulster ?

joseywhales

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

Why do the British have the right to decide what is the best way for one to live?

Their might came in handy at times of war.

To enforce their agenda, not to help anybody else

Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

So is that of Stalin

Yes mistakes were made but you can't make an omelette without breaking the eggs.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

It existed for thousands of years before the british empire which existed over a few hundred

Why should we care about Britain?

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Here we go. Self pity.

Not at all mate

I just dont belive anything british is worthy of rememberence nor monuments here

We should take advantage of latest wave of monument removal to remove more of their ignorant stautues etc here,we left.them too much say here post independance


We see the scum of england so called upper class come here every year to participate in hunts,offer nothing to the country,and wreak all around them, (just carrying on their history tbh,they've made a balls of everywhere they went,idk why anyone would want to remember em)

irishguitarlad

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

Their might came in handy at times of war.
Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

Yes mistakes were made but you can't make an omelette without breaking the eggs.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

Ah yes, good old white man's burden.

buried

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.
It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

That's some funny $hite man, considering how since the late 70's they've decimated their own countryside outside of London in every single aspect of that area you are talking about.

If you cant look after your own crowd you've f**king zero business thinking you can look after anybody else.

"prosperity to many parts of the world" lol Queen Lizzy sent The EIC over to the continent of India and they destroyed the place.

CtevenSrowder

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s equally the height of obliviousness to history to argue that people shouldn’t be bothered by having a constant reminder of the shìtty things the British Government at the time were responsible for inflicting upon Irish society.

Granted we haven’t done much better with national monuments ourselves since, the spire being a good example of poor taste and a pointless commemoration of nothing in particular.

:pac::pac::pac: spot on.

Tbh, I like the spire. Don't know why though. Big waste of money.

Gregor Samsa

I like the spire. I don't think every monument has to be to something. I like that it just is.

Much better than Smurfit's vanity paddling pool that preceded it.

buried

The spire is cool. Has a round tower vibe to it. The light at the top is very cool at night.

dd973

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain Russia did in defeating Germany in WWII in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently.

Now corrected OP. :pac:

o1s1n

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I like the spire. I don't think every monument has to be to something. I like that it just is.

Much better than Smurfit's vanity paddling pool that preceded it.

I used to like it, but lately I find it's starting to look incredibly dated.

The whole chrome thing is very turn of the millennium. Everything around that time was silver/chrome (electronics, cars, buildings, bridges etc)

Actually I find a lot of things from that era around the city are starting to look dated too like the millennium walkway and the boardwalk. I wonder how they'll all fare long term.

TheBoyConor

One of the reasons that everything stated to be done silver, not specifically referring to the the spire, but all street furniture and railings etc was that stainless steel is maintenance free and never rusts or needs painting, and the local authorities hate anything that requires maintenance - they want to install and walk away. And stainless steel is more pleasing and less industrial looking than galvanised steel.

ILoveYourVibes

Sean.3516 wrote: »

As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

Nope we were occupied by Britain at the time. Sorry.

TheBoyConor

We were never "part of britain". We are Ireland.

I feel you are deliberately trying to inflame people with those sort of statements.

For over 8000 years, the British army have oppressed the Irish people. They continue to do so to this day in the stolen 7 counties.

The UK is no longer in the European Union, therefore it is now more of a foreign country than ever before and their foreign occupying forces and institutions have no business on this Emerald Isle.

theological

TheBoyConor wrote: »

We were never "part of britain". We are Ireland.

I feel you are deliberately trying to inflame people with those sort of statements.

For over 8000 years, the British army have oppressed the Irish people. They continue to do so to this day in the stolen 7 counties.

The UK is no longer in the European Union, therefore it is now more of a foreign country than ever before and their foreign occupying forces and institutions have no business on this Emerald Isle.

800 years isn't true. If you're saying that the English conquest of Ireland began with the Normans that is. The Normans had conquered England in 1066. The previous people the Anglo-Saxons were defeated by them. The Normans were invaders of both Britain and Ireland by that definition.

I agree that the British did a lot of terrible things in Ireland, I'm just not convinced of the hypothesis of posters that suggest that the British only did terrible things in Ireland, or that there were no possible benefits even if secondary from British rule.

A balanced consideration of these things would probably lead to a maturing of our considerations of the past.

silverharp

They could do with sanding off the names on Traitor's Gate at Stephen's Green, replace with Irish troops that served in the Congo or more specifically the Siege of Jadotville? The Boer war is nothing to be proud of, lots of atrocities committed

ILoveYourVibes

theological wrote: »

800 years isn't true. If you're saying that the English conquest of Ireland began with the Normans that is. The Normans had conquered England in 1066. The previous people the Anglo-Saxons were defeated by them. The Normans were invaders of both Britain and Ireland by that definition.

I agree that the British did a lot of terrible things in Ireland, I'm just not convinced of the hypothesis of posters that suggest that the British only did terrible things in Ireland, or that there were no possible benefits even if secondary from British rule.

A balanced consideration of these things would probably lead to a maturing of our considerations of the past.

Please stop being a colonial apologist. Please stop trolling.

The Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland took place in stages during the late 12th century.

theological

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Please stop being a colonial apologist. Please stop trolling.

The Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland took place in stages during the late 12th century.

It isn't "trolling" to point out that Britain was also invaded by the Normans in 1066. Pointing out that Norman French doesn't necessarily equal English is also helpful.

Now, did the Norman French blend into what came to be known as English? Sure, but given that they ousted the Anglo-Saxons and didn't speak English, it is debatable as to how much they can be referred to as English in respect to the time period. That's why English contains so many French borrow words. However, The Norman French also blended into what came to be known as Irish. That's why a lot of people still have Norman derived surnames in Ireland.

This is why the Normans were referred to as being more Irish than the Irish themselves. They were good at assimilating into pre-existing cultures.

I'm not sure why a nuanced consideration of history produces such an aggressive response. We should be willing to constantly re-evaluate the past and consider our attitudes towards it.

screamer

I don’t agree with vandalism, but you should try reading the history of occupation in Ireland by the British empire and their forces. The atrocities committed are unbelievable, they were a cruel, smothering force who brutalised the Irish people. Forget the famine go further back and read of the stuff they did they were just awful b@stards. Now, if we can put that all behind us and move on, the BLM movement have no excuse.

screamer

silverharp wrote: »

They could do with sanding off the names on Traitor's Gate at Stephen's Green, replace with Irish troops that served in the Congo or more specifically the Siege of Jadotville? The Boer war is nothing to be proud of, lots of atrocities committed

Indeed the war where the British invented concentration camps for the Boer farmers and their families, awful stuff.

ILoveYourVibes

theological wrote: »

It isn't "trolling" to point out that Britain was also invaded by the Normans in 1066. .

We were invaded by Anglo Normans. There is a diff between anglo norman and norman. You do realize that right?

Anglo Normans , Normans and Anglo Saxons are all diff.

We were invaded by Anglo Normans not Normans. They had a diff language etc. By 1150 anglo normans were speaking English not French.

And yes there were Normans in Ireland. The normans SETTLED in ireland. And became norman Irish. They spoke French. There were some squirmishes but they became norman irish.

It was the anglo normans who invaded and started colonization.

endacl

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I like the spire. I don't think every monument has to be to something. I like that it just is.

It is about something. A massive big needle in the heartland of Dublin’s north inner city heroin hub. Could it be any more ‘about something’.

:pac:

theological

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We were invaded by Anglo Normans. There is a diff between anglo norman and norman. You do realize that right?

Anglo Normans , Normans and Anglo Saxons are all diff.

We were invaded by Anglo Normans not Normans.

Anglo-Normans simply refers to Normans who were based in England. Ultimately the English were also invaded by the Normans at Hastings and then onwards from there. The Anglo-Saxons (the then English) were defeated by them.

This is not unimportant information. They had been ruling England for only 100 years before then. Considering the Anglo-Saxons already had a united English kingdom before the Normans invaded it is questionable as to how much the Normans were "English" by this stage.

A more accurate comment would be that both Ireland and England were conquered by the Norman French. The Irish invasion happened a hundred years after the English one. The Norman French became a significant part of the fabric of both nations.

I know that isn't convenient for making the 800 years argument, but it is important to handle history accurately.

ILoveYourVibes

theological wrote: »

Anglo-Normans simply refers to Normans who were based in England. Ultimately the English were also invaded by the Normans at Hastings and then onwards from there. The Anglo-Saxons (the then English) were defeated by them.

.

What NO ...they had a different language for one.

Its now agreed they adopted english as their spoken language much earlier than previously thought. About 1150s.There is a court record of a knight unable to speak Norman/French at all soon after that date. Indicating even the ruling class couldn't speak french.

The normans did invade england you are correct ....but the anglo normans ..are this NEW blended culture of anglo saxon and norman...they didn't speak french...they spoke English. But were somewhat a ruling class.

The normans spoke french ..not english.

Also the normans never IMPOSED their culture on the Saxons ..for example there was no attempt to make them speak french. It wasn't politicized.

Anglo Normans spoke another language ..that would become middle english.

Anglo Normans and Normans even have two separate Wiki pages.

Junkyard Tom

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The British empire brought prosperity to many parts of the world.

Lol. This is so utterly clueless. The British Empire extracted prosperity. You think the British sent money from Britain to the colonies to develop them?

It allowed people who would still be living under bushes a chance of an education and work.

This is the mark of a colonised mind.

Their might came in handy at times of war.

Yeah like the opium wars?

Their influence is still felt today in many corners of the globe.

Like Yemen, where children are starving to death in the 21st Century.

Africa as a continent seems incapable of digging itself out of the mire and achieving something. Left alone it would have disappeared to nothing at this stage.

Those blacks, eh? They needed colonising I tells ya.

TheBoyConor

What? Since when are we letting accurate historical facts get in the way of rabid republican anglophobia? Everybody knows that the Brits are the inflictors of 8000 years of oppression and the deliberately plotted the great potato famine of 1916 and that the Queen personally stole the 7 counties of Ulster and that Mick Collins singlehandedly won the war of independence by boxing her into the jaw.

theological

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What NO ...they had a different language for one.

Its now agreed they adopted english as their spoken language much earlier than previously thought. About 1150s.There is a court record of a knight unable to speak Norman/French at all soon after that date. Indicating even the ruling class couldn't speak french.

The normans did invade england you are correct ....but the anglo normans ..are this NEW blended culture of anglo saxon and norman...they didn't speak french...they spoke English. But were somewhat a ruling class.

The normans spoke french ..not english.

Also the normans never IMPOSED their culture on the Saxons ..for example there was no attempt to make them speak french. It wasn't politicized.

So the ruling Norman class took over England, and then after 100 years took over Ireland.

I still think it is disingenuous to say that the Normans are equal with English at this point in history.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What? Since when are we letting accurate historical facts get in the way of rabid republican anglophobia? Everybody knows that the Brits are the inflictors of 8000 years of oppression and the deliberately plotted the great potato famine of 1916 and that the Queen personally stole the 7 counties of Ulster and that Mick Collins singlehandedly won the war of independence by boxing her into the jaw.

8000! Janey mac that's a bit of an overstatement.

However, building up an accurate portrayal of history is useful. Acknowledging that Ireland has a history that isn't just about republicanism is also helpful.

Some people just hold these things up as unquestionable sacred cows.

Sean.3516

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What will all of the vandalising of monuments taking place at home and abroad, I thought back to 1966 when IRA terrorists blew up Nelson's Pillar. One of the nicest and most meaningful monuments in Dublin. Why didn't we just rebuild it? Why did we instead erect that steel monstrosity known as "The Spire"? That atrocious looking piece of postmodern junk?

I have to say I've never understood the antagonism some people have to monuments in Ireland that happen to be the vestiges of British rule. Whatever you think about the way Britain governed Ireland, what's wrong exactly with commemorating certain things like Nelson's victory over Napoleon's navy and the Duke of Wellington (who was from Ireland). Glad the republicans didn't blow up the Duke of Wellington monument in Phoenix Park, nicest monument in Ireland and it's not particularly close.

It really is the height of bitterness that many don't want to recognise the good Britain did in defeating Napoleon and defeating Germany in WWI in which Irishman serving were given no recognition until recently. As we were part of Britain at the time, why can't we share in that pride?

The British did as much wrong around the world as the Germans did in WW2. Any reference to them here should be completely wiped, there’s still too many left.