College consent crisis: students forced or threatened into sex

Discodog

The finding of this extensive study are disturbing. I thought that the idea of "consent classes" was over the top until I read this.

Report co-author Dr Pádraig MacNeela, a lecturer in psychology, said it provided “a stark depiction of the experiences that many students have had”, including the “more than 1,000 females who described incidents that correspond to rape”.

More than half of students (56pc) with a disability reported an experience of sexual misconduct, compared with 42pc of other students, and rates of non-consensual penetration and use of incapacitation or force, were also higher for this group.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/college-consent-crisis-students-forced-or-threatened-into-sex-39303926.html

Annasopra

Consent classes are definitely a good thing

paw patrol

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Consent classes are definitely a good thing

On the surface yes , but the devil is in the detail.


What is going to be taught?
Is it going to be fair and place onus on all parties ?

Or is it going to be a demonisation of men and an extension of the horrific (how is it actually legal?) romeo and julette laws that we have for under age.


Given how the wind is blowing in academia and colleges ? I wouldn't hold much hope of it being fair and reasonable.

Silentcorner

paw patrol wrote: »

On the surface yes , but the devil is in the detail.


What is going to be taught?
Is it going to be fair and place onus on all parties ?

Or is it going to be a demonisation of men and an extension of the horrific (how is it actually legal) romeo and julette laws that we have for under age.


Given how the wind is blowing in academia and colleges ? I wouldn't hold much hope of it being fair and reasonable.

I'd be the same, I'd have no problem in principle with consent classes, but it would depend on who is delivering the course.

Feminists or any organisations attached to the National Women's Council shouldn't be allowed near young men.

Eric Cartman

Some of these studies just remind me off that brasseye skit about everyone under 30 being a kid.

“If you define talking to a woman as sexual assault or having sex with a woman who’s had 1 beer as rape then the results on canpus are staggering”

runawaybishop

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“If you define talking to a woman as sexual assault or having sex with a woman who’s had 1 beer as rape then the results on canpus are staggering”

That's pretty much what's happened here. Had a drink? Can't consent so, therefor it's sexual assault.

Wibbs

This is an odd finding, or at least one that invites more attention: Students identifying as Asian or Asian Irish reported the lowest rates of sexual misconduct and sexual harassment. Why the difference in this group? Were there differences among other "race" demographics? Are there cultural differences which lead to fewer cases, or how they report to such things?

ShamNNspace

The study is "not based on a representative sample".... but...

tigger123

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Some of these studies just remind me off that brasseye skit about everyone under 30 being a kid.

“If you define talking to a woman as sexual assault or having sex with a woman who’s had 1 beer as rape then the results on canpus are staggering”

Is that quote from Brass Eye?

Wibbs

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Some of these studies just remind me off that brasseye skit about everyone under 30 being a kid.

“If you define talking to a woman as sexual assault or having sex with a woman who’s had 1 beer as rape then the results on canpus are staggering”

The original study(and I use the word advisedly) in the 1980's that gave the world the "1 in 4" statistic around the incidence of sexual assault in universities wasn't too far off your Brasseye reference. Women who had clearly stated to the researcher that they hadn't been assaulted or raped were lumped into the victims category by the same researcher based on her criteria. It was quite a proportion of the sample group too. Over a quarter IIRC.

double jobbing

I asked the missus once about some similar stats I read once.

I'd say, currently, she has about 10 friends she socialises with to varying degrees of regularity.

Of these, probably 3 are her very best friends who would confide in her about anything etc.

Not to mention dozens more she would have grown up with but like us all has lost touch with down the years. School, college, estate she grew up on, et al.

In all those years, she can recall one, one girl, who she knows to have been a victim of sexual assault.

Yet most leftists on here would probably claim a majority, or a large minority, of women they know have been assaulted.

This story should be taken with a pinch, actually with a council road gritting truckful of early March salt.

Wanderer78

double jobbing wrote:

Yet most leftists on here would probably claim a majority, or a large minority, of women they know have been assaulted.

The left bad, we get it!

eviltwin

I went to a consent class in college this year. It wasn’t compulsory but a good few people attended and I found it interesting. It was run by the RCC but was very gender neutral and had a section on lgbt abuse.

I’d always thought consent classes in college were a waste of time but in the question and answers part some of the stuff asked was shocking, most of the room thought the age of consent was 16 and a frightening number of people didn’t think it was rape if you were dating.

Dyr

This is a crisis, the only obvious answer is to keep all third level institutions closed and deliver all lectures that are non-practical online to safeguard thses vulnerable young peoples

That should soften a few coughs.

osarusan

I'll wait to read the actual report rather than a newspaper interpretation of it.

On consent classes, I've seen various threads on boards which show that what people know about the laws about rape is seriously lacking. Threads where people are confusing what they think laws on rape 'should be' with what the law actually is.

Consent classes will do nothing to stop people who know what they are doing is illegal, but there are lads in prison who were found guilty of rape that I'm sure were stunned to find out that what they did amounted to rape under Irish law. That's where consent classes can help - with a clear explanation of what the laws actually are.

double jobbing

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The left bad, we get it!

Why do they always seem to know more victims than the average Joanne?

12 percent of Galway male students claim to have been raped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape#United_States

NUIG is, according to some studies, more dangerous than the US prison system :pac:

Lyan

Who are all these rapists and why are they getting away with it?

Wanderer78

double jobbing wrote:

Why do they always seem to know more victims than the average Joanne?

Who?

double jobbing

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Who?

Weirdos on Twitter who claim sexual violence is rampant in Ireland.

eviltwin

double jobbing wrote: »

Why do they always seem to know more victims than the average Joanne?

12 percent of Galway male students claim to have been raped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape#United_States

NUIG is, according to some studies, more dangerous than the US prison system :pac:

Maybe people who are more sympathetic to sexual assault are easier to talk to about it

I’ve been the victim of a rape and only two people in my life know. It’s not something a lot of people choose to talk about for obvious reasons.

Wanderer78

double jobbing wrote:

Weirdos on Twitter who claim sexual violence is rampant in Ireland.

Okay, maybe don't go on twitter if it's upsetting you that much, life's too short for that

Charles Babbage

Wibbs wrote: »

This is an odd finding, or at least one that invites more attention: Students identifying as Asian or Asian Irish reported the lowest rates of sexual misconduct and sexual harassment. Why the difference in this group? Were there differences among other "race" demographics? Are there cultural differences which lead to fewer cases, or how they report to such things?

Perhaps they are less likely to drink to excess and are in better control of the situation as a consequence. Or maybe they imply a knowledge of martial arts.

double jobbing

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Okay, maybe don't go on twitter if it's upsetting you that much, life's too short for that

Oh I don't, I buzz in now and again when I hear of a national scandal erupting on it.

Like last night when some anonymous users accuse a politician, three musicians, a comedian and an actor of being sex offenders and the gob****es lap it up with zero proof.

Wanderer78

double jobbing wrote:

Like last night when some anonymous users accuse a politician, three musicians, a comedian and an actor of being sex offenders and the gob****es lap it up with zero proof.

Maybe it's true

kowloonkev

Wibbs wrote: »

This is an odd finding, or at least one that invites more attention: Students identifying as Asian or Asian Irish reported the lowest rates of sexual misconduct and sexual harassment. Why the difference in this group? Were there differences among other "race" demographics? Are there cultural differences which lead to fewer cases, or how they report to such things?

Very obvious to me. Not sure I'm allowed to say it cause we're all supposed to accept that every group is the same but...

They would be less likely to engage in casual sexual activity
They would be less tolerant of and less likely to consume copious amounts of alcohol
They study when they go to university
They make smarter decisions based on the above two
They may be less likely to blame others for their mistakes
They may be less likely to report in some cases due to cultural shame

double jobbing

eviltwin wrote: »

Maybe people who are more sympathetic to sexual assault are easier to talk to about it

.

But 12 percent of men in college?

1 in 8, in a four year or less period?

Rodin

I note how the article lumps sex and gender all in to the one big melting pot.

Male, female and non-binary.
Whether they like it or not, those identifying as non-binary are either male or female. Even if they identify as a man or a woman.
They may be legally able to change their gender but they cannot possibly change their biplogical sex.

double jobbing

Rodin wrote: »

I note how the article lumps sex and gender all in to the one big melting pot.

Male, female and non-binary.
Whether they like it or not, those identifying as non-binary are either male or female. Even if they identify as a man or a woman.
They may be legally able to change their gender but they cannot possibly change their biplogical sex.

I'd like to see what percent identify as non binary in the Irish college system.


As late as 10 years ago the man on the street thought non binary was a mathematical term.

Rodin

double jobbing wrote: »

But 12 percent of men in college?

1 in 8, in a four year or less period?

It's nonsense.
Absolute nonsense.

double jobbing

double jobbing wrote: »

I'd like to see what percent identify as non binary in the Irish college system.


As late as 10 years ago the man on the street thought non binary was a mathematical term.

Is it not something about not using computers?..

Wanderer78

double jobbing wrote:

As late as 10 years ago the man on the street thought non binary was a mathematical term.

Things change, do you struggle with change, differences of opinion?

duffman13

"The combination of the lack of or inability to give consent and the tactics used in these incidents most closely correspond to the legal definition of rape used in Ireland."

From the article, anyone know where the full research is published? Staggering statistics if true but the above quote makes me want to see what they class as consent/rape. As previous research done tends to have a researcher apply criteria that even the participants wouldn't classify as unwanted approaches etc. Be interesting to see the detail though

2u2me

These 'studies' always have the same problems behind them.

They do the same thing every few years.

They usually contain non-response bias- estimates are usually too high because students who have been sexually assaulted are more likely to fill out survey

In past surveys people were never asked "Were you raped", "Were you sexually assaulted" because such direct question are known to yield low numbers.

Instead they frame it such things as "have you ever experienced unwanted touching?", "Have you ever been kissed without your consent" "have you ever been kissed without your active ongoing, voluntary agreement?"

Of course triggering any of these conditions would mean you have been sexually assaulted.

I would like to see what questions were asked in this survey.

eviltwin

double jobbing wrote: »

But 12 percent of men in college?

1 in 8, in a four year or less period?

Seems excessive alright but male rape is vastly underreported. Who knows? We will probably never know for certain the extent of sexual abuse in colleges or anywhere else in the country. I’m a mature student and have the benefit of age and experience but my younger classmates are horny and naive and I can see how they can find themselves in situations that get out of control.

2u2me

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Perhaps they are less likely to drink to excess and are in better control of the situation as a consequence. Or maybe they imply a knowledge of martial arts.

Asian flush is a thing

suicide_circus

Judging by these findings 3rd level institutions in Ireland are extremely dangerous and depraved places. This is warzone levels of sexual violence.

Rodin

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Things change, do you struggle with change, differences of opinion?

I struggle with opinions which go against the rules of science. They are not free to be changed at will.

Rodin

2u2me wrote: »

These 'studies' always have the same problems behind them.

They do the same thing every few years.

They usually contain non-response bias- estimates are usually too high because students who have been sexually assaulted are more likely to fill out survey

In past surveys people were never asked "Were you raped", "Were you sexually assaulted" because such direct question are known to yield low numbers.

Instead they frame it such things as "have you ever experienced unwanted touching?", "Have you ever been kissed without your consent" "have you ever been kissed without your active ongoing, voluntary agreement?"

Of course triggering any of these conditions would mean you have been sexually assaulted.

I would like to see what questions were asked in this survey.

I've experienced unwanted touching when extended the sign of peace at mass. Never reported it.

The major issue here is that those conducting these surveys have an agenda. And they will adjust their questions, reporting, definitions to suit their agenda.
It is highly dangerous.

Why don't they publish a league table ranking the colleges? That way students can see which one is safest?

double jobbing

double jobbing wrote: »

I'd like to see what percent identify as non binary in the Irish college system.


As late as 10 years ago the man on the street thought non binary was a mathematical term.

attention seekers all they are

Geuze

Rodin wrote: »

The major issue here is that those conducting these surveys have an agenda. And they will adjust their questions, reporting, definitions to suit their agenda.
It is highly dangerous.

++++++1000%, yes.

2u2me

Rodin wrote: »

The major issue here is that those conducting these surveys have an agenda. And they will adjust their questions, reporting, definitions to suit their agenda.
It is highly dangerous.

The very point of science is to remove our bias'. That's why it's so effective. It doesn't matter who is conducting the study as long as they follow the proper procedure(which includes publishing findings that contradict one's interests). Which I bet they haven't done here.

Chris_Heilong

double jobbing wrote: »

I'd like to see what percent identify as non binary in the Irish college system.


As late as 10 years ago the man on the street thought non binary was a mathematical term.

That was only about 3 years ago in fairness, this "new" way of thinking has been trust upon us and we have been told accept this or you are a "some thing negative sounding".

Rodin

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

That was only about 3 years ago in fairness, this "new" way of thinking has been trust upon us and we have been told accept this or you are a "some thing negative sounding".

I certainly won't be told that a male can become a female....

Randy Archer

The Belfast Rape trial, if comments on social media are to be considered , proves that a lot of adults and youth are worryingly clueless on what consent is , especially when drink is involved (which gets messy in court ,and can be tricky ie was consent capable of being given etc ) some extremely ignorant thick as muck declarations were spouted by both sides of the argument it was frightening

People are getting pissy about this so called gender balance issue and ghastly feminists

Well folks, rape laws and the idea of rape does make it clear that it’s the men who gotta check themselves before they wreck themselves as women can’t legally “rape” men.(Irish law definition of rape ) Assault yes but not rape. So ya, men gotta be awake and make sure consent is obtained , no point whinging about what women do

suicide_circus

Randy Archer wrote: »

it’s the men who gotta check themselves before they wreck themselves as women can’t legally “rape” men.(Irish law definition of rape ) Assault yes but not rape. So ya, men gotta be awake and make sure consent is obtained , no point whinging about what women do

written consent presumably?

Randy Archer

suicide_circus wrote: »

written consent presumably?

Trying to be humorous ?

Ficheall

They include "unwanted efforts to establish a sexual relationship" under their definition of harassment.. I've only had a brief look at the report yet, but I really hope they qualify that a little further..

Also exposure to sexist materials or jokes as sexual harassment.

Rodin

Murder The_Pair_Of Yis! wrote: »

Let's be honest, most of these 'rapes' were just regret over drunken sex.

Especially the Belfast trial.
2 innocent men.

The_Brood

Simply having consent classes is like throwing a glass of water at a volcano. Not gonna do much.

The problem is all of society, in Ireland and otherwise, constructs people and men in particular to have the tools to be manipulative abusers, whether they use them or not.

From the methods of becoming successful and popular in school, college, passing job interviews, becoming valued high in society...it's all about how good of a liar and manipulator you are, masked as how "confident" you are, always knowing to say the right things, being "funny" to get people's guard down, convincing others you have one set of intentions when in reality you have others, being a "go-getter" who will "not take no for an answer" - those who successfully display these traits are rewarded by society, by both men and women, in all kinds of different ways. And those are exactly the traits that enable someone to think they can sexually obtain something from someone else. The vast majority of all this sexual assault is not carried out by loner creeps living in cardboard boxes, it's carried out by at least somewhat popular, successful, 'socially intelligent' people. Or at least by those that are then protected by institutions that surprise surprise, are run by said popular, successful, 'socially intelligent' people who wouldn't want to get themselves in trouble if they were exposed as doing the same thing.

Basically all of society, everything, from schools to job interviews needs to be destroyed and rebuilt from the bottom up. A completely new set of values needs to be established.

Rodin

Murder The_Pair_Of Yis! wrote: »

What a load of crap.

I concur.
Load of rubbish.

seamus

double jobbing wrote: »

I asked the missus once about some similar stats I read once...

I'd be fairly sure that the kind of person who uses the word "leftists" is the last person that women will open up to about sexual assault.

Practically all of my wife's friends have been the victim of some form of sexual assault within their lives. Varying from an aggressive grope from a stranger right up to rape.

The extent of this cannot be overstated.