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Bryson DeChambeau

  • 18-06-2020 10:21pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 77 ✭✭✭ Matmania


    Just watching highlights of his driving last week just off the charts. Put on muscle but also had increased his ball speed and using a five and a half degree driver. He was hitting on average 345 i think. Ball speed was 190 miles per hour. These numbers are unreal.

    He's obviously looked at the science. He's well known for his scientific approach to the game. All clubs the same length etc. So on the driving he's looked at what limits he can hit the ball long while not effecting accuracy to much. This is a game changer. Many golfer commented on it. Even Rory was shocked by it. He looks so much bigger. Fair play to him for upping his game. He has a unique approach to the game but will golfers coming up see this and think this is the way forward. Exciting and also worrying times ahead. As if the game go's towards a 340 plus average drive it may kill the game.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭ Golf is my Game


    Dont think there much science behind him, thats just a lazy thing the commentators like to latch onto. If he really believes the science stuff and its giving him something, then he is a dimmer bulb than he knows or they suggest he is. But he is jacked. 5° driver ? Brysonproofing ? Keopka has huge arms and shoulders as well since he hit the big time anyways. Dont think Bobby Locke was into pumping iron. Its the way it should be. Maybe they need to bring in some like maximum musclemass thing, or ban steriods or something.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    These guys are the best of the best, they should be hitting it further and further, they are the elite.
    Bryson's alterations will have zero impact on the likes of us so his distance not an issue


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,787 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    Yeh it’s definitely not science and it’s embarrassing when people call it as such.

    It’s just a better approach to analytics and playing percentages.

    Golf in fairness is a mile behind sports like Soccer, Rugby, Baseball, American Football and Basketball in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    The bryson the science guy stuff is massively overblown. That said, when you think of how far the long drive guys hit it, there's definitely room for growth for the pros there. Bulking up could be a part of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,794 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    6 protein shakes a day!!!


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    The bryson the science guy stuff is massively overblown. That said, when you think of how far the long drive guys hit it, there's definitely room for growth for the pros there. Bulking up could be a part of that.

    The long drive guys dont have the accuracy or consistency needed for golf though. They are at the extreme end of a particular wedge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    slave1 wrote: »
    These guys are the best of the best, they should be hitting it further and further, they are the elite.
    Bryson's alterations will have zero impact on the likes of us so his distance not an issue

    Ever increasing distance is an issue for the game though, many players including McIlroy have said its a problem.
    Note there is no issue with some being longer than others, the problem is when they are making a mockery of golf courses..."whats a dogleg"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 the.red.baron


    callaway92 wrote: »
    Yeh it’s definitely not science and it’s embarrassing when people call it as such.

    It’s just a better approach to analytics and playing percentages.

    Golf in fairness is a mile behind sports like Soccer, Rugby, Baseball, American Football and Basketball in it.




    golf is beyond any of those sports, not sure where you are getting from



    it is science in the very definition of the word


    He experiments and you can see the improvements


    if they can hit it longer, who cares, i play with people who can hit it 50 longer than me, big advantage for them, and rightly so


    some people can run faster than other no different really, in fact the gap in something like running is miles beyond what it would be in golf


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    in fact the gap in something like running is miles beyond what it would be in golf

    Its not the gap thats the problem though, its what the maximum distance means for the future of the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The long drive guys dont have the accuracy or consistency needed for golf though. They are at the extreme end of a particular wedge.

    No, and I don't see the pros ever competing with long drive guys in terms of distance either. One of the reasons being the importance of accuracy in real golf.

    However, when you can see lads carrying the ball 400 yards, I think it's fair to say that the pros haven't maxed out their driving distance. If it's muscles, or lifting the left foot on the back swing or whatever that gets the long drive guys more distance, I can see the pros looking at it to see how they can get more swing speed in a controlled manner.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 731 the.red.baron


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Its not the gap thats the problem though, its what the maximum distance means for the future of the game.




    it means lower scores for those who can hit further if just as accurate as the shorter hitter


    same as always


    you can also get fitter and stronger if you wish to keep up with the big hitters


    if they can go long and straight in the fairway, they should have an advantage to this difficult skill


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    it means lower scores for those who can hit further if just as accurate as the shorter hitter


    same as always


    you can also get fitter and stronger if you wish to keep up with the big hitters


    if they can go long and straight in the fairway, they should have an advantage to this difficult skill

    You are missing the point I have made already.
    There is *zero* issue with some people being longer than others, the problem is that what longer means keep increasing and its no viable for courses to keep up.

    It means more expensive alterations to golf courses to make them viable for the pros to play on.
    It means much more expensive (money and environmentally) courses to maintain
    It means longer and longer time needed to play a round of golf


    If you could kick a GAA ball over the bar from your own goal line, do you not thing changes would be brought in, for the good of the game?

    its the same problem in golf, skill is being eroded in favour of distance, because distance, right now, trumps everything else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    No, and I don't see the pros ever competing with long drive guys in terms of distance either. One of the reasons being the importance of accuracy in real golf.

    However, when you can see lads carrying the ball 400 yards, I think it's fair to say that the pros haven't maxed out their driving distance. If it's muscles, or lifting the left foot on the back swing or whatever that gets the long drive guys more distance, I can see the pros looking at it to see how they can get more swing speed in a controlled manner.

    Oh agreed, there is more in there for lots of them, which is why I think the game needs to take steps to dial it back but maintain an advantage for longer hitters.

    Limiting the number of dimples on the ball would be one way, it would also reward accuracy over distance (painful hitting a ball with fewer dimples out of the rough)


  • Registered Users Posts: 924 ✭✭✭ OEP


    I'd say steroids were a big help too


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ willabur


    The main problem is that the penalty for not hitting the fairway is far too low. 20 yards into the rough these guys are getting lies that are far too playable

    Bryson was 27th last week in fairways hit, not in the top 100 season to date. If the rough was a proper length then he and others would need find a better solution than bomb and gouge


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 the.red.baron


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You are missing the point I have made already.
    There is *zero* issue with some people being longer than others, the problem is that what longer means keep increasing and its no viable for courses to keep up.

    It means more expensive alterations to golf courses to make them viable for the pros to play on.
    It means much more expensive (money and environmentally) courses to maintain
    It means longer and longer time needed to play a round of golf


    If you could kick a GAA ball over the bar from your own goal line, do you not thing changes would be brought in, for the good of the game?

    its the same problem in golf, skill is being eroded in favour of distance, because distance, right now, trumps everything else.


    no, you don't need to make them longer, they just score lower, possibly



    you aren't making any point


    he hit it longer last weekend and still didn't win,



    funny that


    so someones short game and putting beat him out, but he still probably payed better than he would have, in his own game



    hitting it long and straight is a skill just as difficult as any other, so why penalize that skill


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭ Iang87


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Ever increasing distance is an issue for the game though, many players including McIlroy have said its a problem.
    Note there is no issue with some being longer than others, the problem is when they are making a mockery of golf courses..."whats a dogleg"?

    Can this not be fixed with better course design. Listened to a new podcasts recently, particularly Peter Kostis and he views distance as a skill so why punish it.

    Maybe better design. Let him hit the ball 360 but if he doesn't land in a fairway he should be struggling in rough but unfortunately thats not the case. I think that is more problematic than the distance. Great design beats distance.

    Smaller example would be last weeks course had a 215 yard par 3. Wide green with a bunker front left. Pointless in my view. Think the players all week smashed 5 iron up there and tried to two putt. Why not have it 120 with a disgusting run off area where you dare not go left/right etc.

    Anyway i'm rambling and definitely don't mean to be having a go at you. I just think the distance is a problem argument is wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,315 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    6 protein steroid shakes a day!!!

    fyp


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You are missing the point I have made already.
    There is *zero* issue with some people being longer than others, the problem is that what longer means keep increasing and its no viable for courses to keep up.

    It means more expensive alterations to golf courses to make them viable for the pros to play on.
    It means much more expensive (money and environmentally) courses to maintain
    It means longer and longer time needed to play a round of golf


    If you could kick a GAA ball over the bar from your own goal line, do you not thing changes would be brought in, for the good of the game?

    its the same problem in golf, skill is being eroded in favour of distance, because distance, right now, trumps everything else.

    I basically agree when this. On a side note, it's often spoken about in GAA how much further the sliotar now travels. Back in the day 65s were difficult. Now you'd expect them to be put over in an u14s match. In hurling this is a great thing. If not you could pack the defence and just defend inside your own 65. The fact that guys can put it over from their own 65 given a bit of space forces teams to spread out around the pitch more. It makes it a far more open and exciting game.

    But back to the golf - limitations on the ball in the professional game definitely seems the way to go. The problem with distance at the moment is that it's disproportionately rewarded. If you're not hitting the ball 300 yards it pretty much rules you out of half the tournaments every year. It's a shame that lads like like Donald can't compete anymore.

    If the ball was altered and took 10% of the distance off players, the bigger hitters would still have a huge advantage. But maybe other guys would be able to compete against them because they're a brilliant putter or iron player.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    no, you don't need to make them longer, they just score lower, possibly



    you aren't making any point


    he hit it longer last weekend and still didn't win,



    funny that


    so someones short game and putting beat him out, but he still probably payed better than he would have, in his own game



    hitting it long and straight is a skill just as difficult as any other, so why penalize that skill

    Ok you are not reading my posts.
    I'm not penalizing that skill, I'm trying to reign everyone back equally, so the game can still be played on all courses.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Iang87 wrote: »
    Can this not be fixed with better course design. Listened to a new podcasts recently, particularly Peter Kostis and he views distance as a skill so why punish it.
    Not at all trying to punish it, the long guys will still be long but they dont need to be as long as they are now.
    What does "better course design" mean for all the existing courses? They all would have to undergo massive capital and operating expense.
    Iang87 wrote: »
    Maybe better design. Let him hit the ball 360 but if he doesn't land in a fairway he should be struggling in rough but unfortunately thats not the case. I think that is more problematic than the distance. Great design beats distance.
    I don't think that addresses the underlying issue, if you keep hitting the ball further, you keep having to lengthen courses, which is not feasible.
    Iang87 wrote: »
    Smaller example would be last weeks course had a 215 yard par 3. Wide green with a bunker front left. Pointless in my view. Think the players all week smashed 5 iron up there and tried to two putt. Why not have it 120 with a disgusting run off area where you dare not go left/right etc.
    While I dont necessarily disagree, I think you need to have them hitting more than SW/LW, they are just too good.
    Iang87 wrote: »
    Anyway i'm rambling and definitely don't mean to be having a go at you. I just think the distance is a problem argument is wrong

    So what about the associated cost and waste, environmental impact and the forced obsolescence of many courses?
    I dont care about how far the ball goes, I care about the impact that has.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,787 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    golf is beyond any of those sports, not sure where you are getting from



    Just going from my own experience. I work in Sports Analytics, focusing on Soccer, Rugby (Union and League), Golf, Tennis, Cricket and the Major League Sports, and the least money invested in it comes from Golf easily.

    Granted, for Golf, individual players aren't clients of mine, but Media companies, Betting companies, Fantasy Sports companies and Coaches are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 the.red.baron


    callaway92 wrote: »
    Just going from my own experience. I work in Sports Analytics, focusing on Soccer, Rugby (Union and League), Golf, Tennis, Cricket and the Major League Sports, and the least money invested in it comes from Golf easily.

    Granted, for Golf, individual players aren't clients of mine, but Media companies, Betting companies, Fantasy Sports companies and Coaches are.


    Golf is niche on a professional level, versus soccer the nfl etc, it's comparable to Tennis, the numbers who watch it and the revenue is tiny in comparison



    but the golf manufacturers pump plenty of money and the sports itself is statstastic


    you have average golfers using GPS devices and lasers to track them and get range slope etc


    No average person in the these other sports use much if any technology



    the manufacture of the clubs gets plenty of money pumped into it, and you can analyse the golf swing in a way those sports only dream of


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 the.red.baron


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Ok you are not reading my posts.
    I'm not penalizing that skill, I'm trying to reign everyone back equally, so the game can still be played on all courses.




    its a 2 page thread of course i have


    you haven't explained the problem with long hitting at all


    making a mockery of a course, is that it? they are pros, they make things look easy, some of the time



    they already have limits on the technology, this is players making themselves better, they all have access to the same clubs


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,787 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    Golf is niche on a professional level, versus soccer the nfl etc, it's comparable to Tennis, the numbers who watch it and the revenue is tiny in comparison



    but the golf manufacturers pump plenty of money and the sports itself is statstastic


    you have average golfers using GPS devices and lasers to track them and get range slope etc


    No average person in the these other sports use much if any technology



    the manufacture of the clubs gets plenty of money pumped into it, and you can analyse the golf swing in a way those sports only dream of

    From the tech and data involved in all of the Sports I've listed, bar Tennis, pound-for-pound Golf is so far behind them it's crazy.

    Why are you bringing average people into this? We were speaking about Bryson DeChambeau - At the top-level, Golf is so far behind the other Sports. It's my favourite Sport and that might be one of the reasons why; because it's not fully down to a tee yet (which players constantly try to perfect).


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    its a 2 page thread of course i have


    you haven't explained the problem with long hitting at all


    making a mockery of a course, is that it? they are pros, they make things look easy, some of the time



    they already have limits on the technology, this is players making themselves better, they all have access to the same clubs
    I haven't explained it?!
    Ohhhhkaaaay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭ Iang87


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Not at all trying to punish it, the long guys will still be long but they dont need to be as long as they are now.
    What does "better course design" mean for all the existing courses? They all would have to undergo massive capital and operating expense.


    I don't think that addresses the underlying issue, if you keep hitting the ball further, you keep having to lengthen courses, which is not feasible.


    While I dont necessarily disagree, I think you need to have them hitting more than SW/LW, they are just too good.



    So what about the associated cost and waste, environmental impact and the forced obsolescence of many courses?
    I dont care about how far the ball goes, I care about the impact that has.

    I just think lengthening the course is the easy option and the most boring from a spectator view.

    Squeeze the fairways tighter in the landing areas. Put a few mature trees in areas of the course where if you go to close you'e to come under or whip around but if you're far enough back you can go over. Put a few deep bunkers in landing areas. These are relatively simple things

    On the par 3 point, I think you can have them hitting LW and GW into them. 12th at Augusta, 17th at Sawgrass, 8th at Troon, 7th at Pebble. All relatively short holes that absolutely punish. I'd rather see that than milling a 5 iron 220 yards into a green/bunker. I understand those holes can't be on every course because a few have natural features that can't really be replicated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Iang87 wrote: »
    I just think lengthening the course is the easy option and the most boring from a spectator view.

    Squeeze the fairways tighter in the landing areas. Put a few mature trees in areas of the course where if you go to close you'e to come under or whip around but if you're far enough back you can go over. Put a few deep bunkers in landing areas. These are relatively simple things

    On the par 3 point, I think you can have them hitting LW and GW into them. 12th at Augusta, 17th at Sawgrass, 8th at Troon, 7th at Pebble. All relatively short holes that absolutely punish. I'd rather see that than milling a 5 iron 220 yards into a green/bunker. I understand those holes can't be on every course because a few have natural features that can't really be replicated.

    I think you have to keep lengthening the course if players keep hitting it further and further, unless you bring in internal OOB, guys will just cut corners of doglegs, who cares if you are in the rough if you are hitting a LW compared to the rest of them hitting a 7i?

    Sure you can add one off short par 3's but you cant put 3-4 of them on a course realistically.


  • Registered Users Posts: 924 ✭✭✭ OEP


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I think you have to keep lengthening the course if players keep hitting it further and further, unless you bring in internal OOB, guys will just cut corners of doglegs, who cares if you are in the rough if you are hitting a LW compared to the rest of them hitting a 7i?

    Sure you can add one off short par 3's but you cant put 3-4 of them on a course realistically.

    Couldn't they make they rough deeper? Like in Paris for the Ryder Cup. It doesn't have to be that extreme but that showed one way of penalising missing the fairways


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    OEP wrote: »
    Couldn't they make they rough deeper? Like in Paris for the Ryder Cup. It doesn't have to be that extreme but that showed one way of penalising missing the fairways

    Yeah they can, but I'd worry about slowing down play even further!


This discussion has been closed.
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