India vs China border clashes

Yet again China is trying to gain the high ground in the disputed border regions between the two countries.


odd to see the story in the "technology section" of the website?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/very-volatile-china-sends-5000-troops-to-disputed-border-with-india/news-story/788d455620c2728bde6dbc9b197a76c5
‘Very volatile’: China sends 5000 troops to disputed border with India

China is fighting a headline-grabbing war of words with Australia and the US, while quietly amassing troops and weapons on another contested front.


China’s added a new international border crisis to its growing list. The South China Sea. The East China Sea. Taiwan. Hong Kong. Now there’s serious trouble brewing with India.
Punches have been thrown between rival border patrols.
Each insists the other had strayed on to their side of the mountainous dividing line between the world’s two most populous nations.
Both sides have responded by massing troops and equipment in the area.
Neither side wants to stand down.
Exactly what is happening in the valley remains uncertain.
Neither Beijing or New Delhi have yet issued an official communique on the evolving crisis.

Kivaro

The issue with India could become very serious. China is advising their citizens to get out of India.
And then, under the cover of a worldwide pandemic that originated in their country, the Chinese are now trying to impose their totalitarian policies on Hong Kong, which goes against the one country/two systems that they signed up to.
And then, you have the Chinese making an absolute fortune selling PPE all around the world, which is necessary due to a virus that originated in China.
And then you have many research institutions and universities involved in the search to find a vaccine and treatment for Covid-19 reporting hacks by the Chinese in an attempt to steal their proprietary intellectual property, and hindering progress to find a cure to this pandemic.

What boggles my mind though are the serial posters on the Covid forum for example, who foam at the mouth trying to bring Trump and the US into every discussion on the topic.

Here's a question; if Ireland had a natural catastrophe, would it be the Americans or the Chinese who would immediately come to our rescue?
I would imagine that it would be the country where we've had a strong bond/relationship with over the last 300 years.
But yeah, USA is bad, and China is good to many posters on here.

GY_1980

The coronavirus pandemic is a public relations disaster for China. While Western media doesn’t seem to cover that angle much, countries and businesses are losing confidence in China.

The Chinese embassy in France were posting extremely inflammatory tweets on their twitter account. USA, Australia, Japan, UK, France, and other Europeans are beginning to question China. India sees an opportunity in newly diversified supply chains which will occur over the next few years.

China is hitting out aggressively, a sign that cracks are beginning to appear.

biko

I have mentioned it before here but Aksai Chin is very important to both parties.
If India withdraws the China (and Pakistan in the north) will simply push forward until they are stopped.

biko

biko wrote: »

I have mentioned it before here but Aksai Chin is very important to both parties.
If India withdraws the China (and Pakistan in the north) will simply push forward until they are stopped.

In the original article posted above, it's clear that whoever holds the high ground controls the whole region.

Guy:Incognito

The orange baby is on the case to be mediator. Good job he has all the attributes you want in a mediator, like no previous bias shown for or against one side.........

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1265604027678670848

ChelseaRentBoy

Great bunch of lads















Before the virus...

Quotations

India should start behaving itself.

Modi stoking conflict at India's border with Nepal, Pakistan, China and Bangladesh all at once will not end well for the Indian people.

But then there seems to be a global pattern with fascist leaders partnering with the Israeli government and MIC and unnecessary conflict emerging clear as day on the global stage.

suicide_circus

we've danced with this devil for far too long

banie01

India and China are a tinderbox.

China is courting Pakistan and providing huge amounts of both funding and equipment to them.

From the JF-17 thru to supporting wholesale refurbishment of the PAK ordnance factory system.

It leaves India facing 2 Nuclear armed powers on their Northern frontier.
Kashmir and even more importantly for Indian Territorial integrity, Sikkim and the Himalayan plateau are all contested frontiers.

If India loses their Himalayan foothold or Sikkim.
Assam and Arunchal Pradesh and a couple of other Indian states face being cut off from the "main" body of India.

India is desperately trying to buy 4th and 4.5gen fighters.
It's airforce is 12 fighter squadrons below its authorized strength.

France are rushing a build order for 36 rafales and the biggest fighter export comp in the world is being retendered by them again.

Calling for 117 fighters in the "middleweight" category, along with ramping up production of their own Tejas.

There are huge amounts of military hardware being bought, developed and deployed.
It is a Geopolitical tinderbox.

Ally that to India and China starting what amounts to a local dreadnought race in their chase for Aircraft carriers, and it really is a worrying proposition.

banie01

Quotations wrote: »

But then there seems to be a global pattern with fascist leaders partnering with the Israeli government and MIC and unnecessary conflict emerging clear as day on the global stage.

India and Israel's partnership goes much further back than Modi, even in the 1980's India was partnering with Israel on defence projects like the IAI Lavi and many Indian defence projects are built on a base of Israeli knowledge.

Quotations

banie01 wrote: »

India and China are a tinderbox.

China is courting Pakistan and providing huge amounts of both funding and equipment to them.

From the JF-17 thru to supporting wholesale refurbishment of the PAK ordnance factory system.

It leaves India facing 2 Nuclear armed powers on their Northern frontier.
Kashmir and even more importantly for Indian Territorial integrity, Sikkim and the Himalayan plateau are all contested frontiers.

If India loses their Himalayan foothold or Sikkim.
Assam and Arunchal Pradesh and a couple of other Indian states face being cut off from the "main" body of India.

India is desperately trying to buy 4th and 4.5gen fighters.
It's airforce is 12 fighter squadrons below its authorized strength.

France are rushing a build order for 36 rafales and the biggest fighter export comp in the world is being retendered by them again.

Calling for 117 fighters in the "middleweight" category, along with ramping up production of their own Tejas.

There are huge amounts of military hardware being bought, developed and deployed.
It is a Geopolitical tinderbox.

Ally that to India and China starting what amounts to a local dreadnought race in their chase for Aircraft carriers, and it really is a worrying proposition.

Wrong. China has spent billions on development projects within India too. The BRI goes through both India and Pakistan. The US and partners (Israel) want to delay and destroy the BRI in the region and the only country willing to work with the USIsr is Modi.

Modi is causing this friction both in Galwan valley and in Kashmir with China. The Chinese have gently pushed back. Indian people need to remove Modi before he gets them all spanked.

fly_agaric

Kivaro wrote: »

Here's a question; if Ireland had a natural catastrophe, would it be the Americans or the Chinese who would immediately come to our rescue?

Pre Trump, maybe post Trump (depending on how far that whole ideology has infected the Republican party + its base) could definitely rely on the US if worst came to the worst. Any country in Europe could.

Under Trump, you would not be so confident. That you are even comparing the US to China here (a totalitarian police state) in a "who would we rely on" hypothetical says it all really.

banie01

Quotations wrote: »

Wrong. China has spent billions on development projects within India too. The BRI goes through both India and Pakistan. The US and partners (Israel) want to delay and destroy the BRI in the region and the only country willing to work with the USIsr is Modi.

Modi is causing this friction both in Galwan valley and in Kashmir with China. The Chinese have gently pushed back. Indian people need to remove Modi before he gets them all spanked.

Point out the error in my post please?

It's generally how one frames polite discourse, rather than

wrong

Your own analysis is quite good.
Modi is the current nexus of this, and is being buttressed in his current course by the US in particular but!
Given the Chinese and Indians are both now competing for the same markets and global trade opportunities.

To label India as the aggressor here is quite an immediate and short sighted view that overly favours Sino-Pak relations and actions as solely benign.

FVP3

suicide_circus wrote: »

we've danced with this devil for far too long

I'd get used to it. China will be up to 4 times the size of the US in a generation.

The Western capitalist class sold us out and are now throwing a hissy fit as China starts to threaten their profits and not just help lower wages.

FVP3

Quotations wrote: »

Wrong. China has spent billions on development projects within India too. The BRI goes through both India and Pakistan. The US and partners (Israel) want to delay and destroy the BRI in the region and the only country willing to work with the USIsr is Modi.

Modi is causing this friction both in Galwan valley and in Kashmir with China. The Chinese have gently pushed back. Indian people need to remove Modi before he gets them all spanked.

The US is indeed obsessed with opposing the BRI. However if the economic benefits are clear then I can see even most European countries get on board. That would, of course, be the death of the post war system.

Interesting that after kicking themselves out of the EU, the UK -- who had positioned themselves as China's best friend in Europe - has now decided to alienate them too. So it's chlorinated chicken all round then.

biko

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3087672/india-china-standoff-talks-will-focus-troops-returning-pre

When India’s top military officials meet their counterparts from China on Saturday to resolve the latest face-off between troops high in the Himalayas, they are likely to urge all troops to return to their pre-dispute positions, said Indian military experts.

India has accused Chinese troops of incursions into areas that were never under dispute, such as the Galwan River valley, which is between Indian-administered Ladakh and Chinese-administered Aksai Chin. Aksai Chin is strategically important to Beijing as it has China’s only direct road link to Xinjiang and Tibet.

TheValeyard

Things seem to be heating up between these two Major Powers. While border clashes are nothing new, 20 dead soldiers on the Indian side today is the worst death toll in decades. Wonder how things will progress from here.

Also, someone must have forgotten to tell them that June is Race riots. July is still potentially still free for major war or alien invasion.

statesaver

This is all we need.

July major war.

August alien invasion.

TheValeyard

statesaver wrote: »

This is all we need.

July major war.

August alien invasion.

But if the aliens invade in July then the Americans can do that really cool Independence Day speech.

Kermit.de.frog

Both sides are meeting at the moment to defuse.

Be grand.

TheValeyard

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Both sides are meeting at the moment to defuse.

Be grand.

Who is bringing the food?

Timberrrrrrrr

TheValeyard wrote: »

Who is bringing the food?

They have chosen English, so fish chips and mushy peas are being delivered by Uber eats.

Cheerful Spring2

TheValeyard wrote: »

Things seem to be heating up between these two Major Powers. While border clashes are nothing new, 20 dead soldiers on the Indian side today is the worst death toll in decades. Wonder how things will progress from here.

Also, someone must have forgotten to tell them that June is Race riots. July is still potentially still free for major war or alien invasion.

It is a lot more serious than people realise. China has moved artillery, tanks and troops, into territory India says they own in the Himalayas. It so remote this area you unlikely to know the full facts for awhile..

India press 43 Chinese soldiers have got killed?
India admitting to 20 dead so far from clashes.

cnocbui

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Both sides are meeting at the moment to defuse.

Be grand.

No it won't. They just had a meeting to defuse an earlier clash, agreed to tone it down then the Chines immediately reneged on the agreement and sent their troops in to make a land grab.



https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-china-border-tensions-live-updates-at-least-20-indian-soldiers-killed-in-violent-face-off-with-china/liveblog/76396873.cms

Given this whole situation is a result of China's recent military led territorial expansionism and provocation, I don't think there is a snowballs chance this will de escalate anytime soon.

The next stage will involve China bringing in aircraft to establish air superiority and the Indian's responding with SU 30s and Mig 29s and the Chinese not succeeding.

I expect this will get pretty hot.

theguzman

Modhi in India in an ultra-Nationalist and he will be delighted with this, nothing to unite his Hindu Nationalists more than a common enemy of the Chinese. The Pakistanis are collaborating with China on this also. I can see this turning into a full blown shooting war as the Indians and Chinese absolutely hate each other. Trump will be watching and he has a close relationship with India and this could spiral out of control into a multi country war very fast.

The real reason for this is the Chinese trying to destabilise India and make it unattractive for risk averse investors. Post Covid and and with Trumpian protectionist measures and a cold war between China and the USA, made in China will become made in India very quickly. This conflict will become another Vietnam and America will ensure the Indians land a crushing blow on the Chinese in Kashmir.

cnocbui

Trump is on the political ropes and I can easily see him trying to capitalise on this by backing India. Expect F-15 and F-35s squadrons to be landing at Indian airbases within the next two months.

theguzman

cnocbui wrote: »

Trump is on the political ropes and I can easily see him trying to capitalise on this by backing India. Expect F-15 and F-35s squadrons to be landing at Indian airbases within the next two months.

Exactly, plus the Chinese manmade flu killed your grandmother type of rhetoric and whilst the Indians would be technologically inferior to the Chinese they would be superior soldiers and with US Aid and B52 raining. Anti Chinese feeling is already simmering away in the US so it would deflect nicely from the current interracial war and pandemic and collapsed economy. No US President has ever lost an election whilst at war. A war would satisfy the bloodthirsty MIC neoliberal warhawks.

Timberrrrrrrr

theguzman wrote: »

Exactly, plus the Chinese manmade flu killed your grandmother type of rhetoric and whilst the Indians would be technologically inferior to the Chinese they would be superior soldiers and with US Aid and B52 raining. Anti Chinese feeling is already simmering away in the US so it would deflect nicely from the current interracial war and pandemic and collapsed economy. No US President has ever lost an election whilst at war. A war would satisfy the bloodthirsty MIC neoliberal warhawks.

Yanks only go up against goat herders, no way have they the balls to go up against a nuclear superpower with an army the size if China.

theguzman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yanks only go up against goat herders, no way have they the balls to go up against a nuclear superpower with an army the size if China.

They won't they will send in the Indians to do it for them, with logistical and hardware support.

cnocbui

theguzman wrote: »

Exactly, plus the Chinese manmade flu killed your grandmother type of rhetoric and whilst the Indians would be technologically inferior to the Chinese they would be superior soldiers and with US Aid and B52 raining. Anti Chinese feeling is already simmering away in the US so it would deflect nicely from the current interracial war and pandemic and collapsed economy. No US President has ever lost an election whilst at war. A war would satisfy the bloodthirsty MIC neoliberal warhawks.

The Indian military these days, is highly professional and formidable. Their Mig 29s had Pakistan's F-16s fleeing for their lives. The Indians quickly established unassailable air superiority and then were pounding Pakistani positions at will, which is why they capitulated so fast.

The Indian SU-30s have famouslybeen taking part in US Red Flag exercises, annoying the Americans no end by claiming significant victories over F-22s. They have been taking part in air combat exercises with a very wide range of countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exercises_of_the_Indian_Air_Force

Now they have just acquired the first lot of French Rafaele fighters. They do not suffer from a technological disadvantage vs the Chinese and more importantly, their experience and training is probably superior, given the quality of the 'adversaries' they have been training with and their obvious significant performance in these exercises.

Manach

Two nuclear powers with a history of regional rivalries and a disputed border clashing, that is 2020 With the 3 US.carrier groups in the Western Pacific, as the Chinese say Interesting Times

Gatling

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yanks only go up against goat herders, no way have they the balls to go up against a nuclear superpower with an army the size if China.

I seem to recall you weren't fighting goat herder's in Iraq ,
The same same goat herder's of Afghanistan done more damage to Russia than they did America ,but when you go into a a country without a actual plan with a start ,middle and conclusion what's to be expected .

These low level skirmishes suit China ,no real loss and no real gain so nobody can say they were humiliated ,I reckon China actually has the ability to do some serious damage to India ,
The only thing is Chinese forces last faught in the Korean war and limited involvement in Vietnam ,it would interesting to see if there military is actually up for a fight or do they prefer shooting and running over students with tanks

cnocbui

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yanks only go up against goat herders, no way have they the balls to go up against a nuclear superpower with an army the size if China.

They were happy to go toe to toe with the Russians in Syria, wiping out a Syrian airbase after reported use of chemical weapons, then of course they wiped out hundreds of Spetsnaz in the desert - sorry; armed to the teeth vacationing tourist private contractors officially resigned from the military, but still getting pay cheques from Moscow.

suicide_circus

i blame the americans

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

They were happy to go toe to toe with the Russians in Syria, wiping out a Syrian airbase after reported use of chemical weapons, then of course they wiped out hundreds of Spetsnaz in the desert - sorry; armed to the teeth vacationing tourist private contractors officially resigned from the military, but still getting pay cheques from Moscow.

No they weren't. If Russia weren't there the Yanks would have full on invaded and overthrown al-Assad.

Same story in Venezuela. Russia are allies with Maduro.

Kermit.de.frog

One of these are a great bunch of lads.

It'll be grand.

Chill

:cool:

cnocbui

Gatling wrote: »

I seem to recall you weren't fighting goat herder's in Iraq ,
The same same goat herder's of Afghanistan done more damage to Russia than they did America ,but when you go into a a country without a actual plan with a start ,middle and conclusion what's to be expected .

These low level skirmishes suit China ,no real loss and no real gain so nobody can say they were humiliated ,I reckon China actually has the ability to do some serious damage to India ,
The only thing is Chinese forces last faught in the Korean war and limited involvement in Vietnam ,it would interesting to see if there military is actually up for a fight or do they prefer shooting and running over students with tanks

India has seven Gurkha regiments.

Kermit.de.frog

suicide_circus wrote: »

i blame the americans

i blame the lebanese

Dr. Bre

Which one does the best take away ?

Overheal

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

i blame the lebanese

Good, good

Nobody ever suspects the Dutch

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No they weren't. If Russia weren't there the Yanks would have full on invaded and overthrown al-Assad.

Instead the world watched as the assputin regime deliberately wiped hundreds of thousands of Syrians ,from bombing hospitals , schools,food markets, chemical weapons the list goes on ,

At least Israel are Knocking out the Iranians every chance they get unimpeded or just russian anti aircraft systems are ****e

LiquidZeb

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Which one does the best take away ?

Now all we need is Turkey and Italy to get involved and it'll be a real struggle to pick.

cnocbui

Overheal wrote: »

Good, good

Nobody ever suspects the Dutch

They'll be up your river, stealing your ships, before you know it.

Still waters

Who would win a war between china and India

LiquidZeb

Still waters wrote: »

Who would win a war between china and India

I don't think anyone would win tbh. Both sides would batter the **** out of one another for months, potentially years but it'd eventually fall to a stalemate and an armistice. I think cooler heads will prevail just because China doesn't want to become a complete pariah.

Kermit.de.frog

Still waters wrote: »

Who would win a war between china and India

Ireland

JPCN1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yanks only go up against goat herders, no way have they the balls to go up against a nuclear superpower with an army the size if China.

Hirohito and Hitler beg to differ.

Much to the disappointment to many on the left Trump hasn't yet started WW3...

Kermit.de.frog

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Which one does the best take away ?

racist :pac:

cnocbui

Still waters wrote: »

Who would win a war between china and India

The one which fires their nukes first.

banie01

The Chinese have unilaterally moved the Line of Control 20 miles west.
The region in contention is known as the chickens neck and is a vital corridor to India's NW states.

There was a thread earlier regarding some earlier clashes and I opined that the Indians are likely to be outmatched here if it goes full scale.

The IAF is short 14 fighter squadrons. They have excellent pilots and have shown up the USAF F-15s with the Rafale in recent exercises.

The IAF faces major inventory and supply issues however.
They fly far too many types for efficient procurement, training and operational resilience.

Su 30amily, mig21, mig29, Mirage 2000, Rafale, Tejas, Jaguar,

All in the main Foreign whilst license built with no immediate means of force reconstruction.

Whereas the Chinese whilst also operating a diverse fleet manufacture their own hardware and have considerable capacity to absorb losses.

Ground forces India are in a far better position on paper, but China would not be pressing action if there were not certain they could win and hold local control IMO.