Advice on dealing with factory

mcdesmo

Long story short

Left in a bullock to factory last week, he wasnt the best in fairness and wanted rid with the food and water situation the way it is

Got a quote of 3.50 a kilo which was low but factory is not far away from me
etc

he killed out at 265kg, graded poorly at p=

factory lad saying he thinks he is doing me a favour offering me 100 euro, i remember going up to ballyjamesduff years ago (albeit at a better price per kilo) with a runt of weanling that never thrived with a lung problem and getting the guts of 300 euro for him

Am I right in thinking a 100 euros is cracked even if its all mince as the lad claims?

patsy_mccabe

€100 ?

893bet

You got a quote of 3.50 and they have changed it to 38cents?

patsy_mccabe

Name and shame the factory?

mcdesmo

893bet wrote: »

You got a quote of 3.50 and they have changed it to 38cents?

Essentially yes....37.73 cents to be exact....I was so surprised I didnt quite know how to react except that I didnt accept it, sure even the worst of animals would be worth a lot more than that surely?

Cavanjack

You should get €832 for him as long as he was at least a 2+ in fat score

mcdesmo

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Name and shame the factory?

Im not inclined to, I just wanted confirmation that I'm not completely living in cloud cuckoo land and there was an attempt to take me for a ride.

Now just to say hes non-QA and hed be over 30 months so that,s not in his favour in fairness

memorystick

mcdesmo wrote: »

Im not inclined to, I just wanted confirmation that I'm not completely living in cloud cuckoo land and there was an attempt to take me for a ride.

Now just to say hes non-QA and hed be over 30 months so that,s not in his favour in fairness

You made an agreement

mcdesmo

memorystick wrote: »

You made an agreement

If you mean what I think you mean, then I agree.

If its 3.50 a kilo its 3.50 a kilo.

it cant become one tenth of that after the fact.

whelan2

Even the crappiest cull cow gets around 2 euro a kilo

lakill Farm

Bring the 4 x 1/4s to a butcher and deep freeze it for own use

Or get the full cheque as agreed off them

mcdesmo wrote: »

Long story short

Left in a bullock to factory last week, he wasnt the best in fairness and wanted rid with the food and water situation the way it is

Got a quote of 3.50 a kilo which was low but factory is not far away from me
etc

he killed out at 265kg, graded poorly at p=

factory lad saying he thinks he is doing me a favour offering me 100 euro, i remember going up to ballyjamesduff years ago (albeit at a better price per kilo) with a runt of weanling that never thrived with a lung problem and getting the guts of 300 euro for him

Am I right in thinking a 100 euros is cracked even if its all mince as the lad claims?

mcdesmo

lakill Farm wrote: »

Bring the 4 x 1/4s to a butcher and deep freeze it for own use

Or get the full cheque as agreed off them

whats the full cheque?....not being sticky here...as in accept 100 euro

lakill Farm

mcdesmo wrote: »

whats the full cheque?....not being sticky here...as in accept 100 euro

no the €830

mcdesmo

lakill Farm wrote: »

no the €830

Hes sticking to his guns and saying no way in hell will I get the colour of it.......200 euros and hes doing me a mighty favour at that........he wont be reasonable, what can you do then?

Says he didnt know what the animal was like, saw it that morning when I dropped it in.

lakill Farm

Tell him tough ****e and blockade the factory gates

mcdesmo wrote: »

Hes sticking to his guns and saying no way in hell will I get the colour of it.......200 euros and hes doing me a mighty favour at that........he wont be reasonable, what can you do then?

Says he didnt know what the animal was like, saw it that morning when I dropped it in.

Doctors room ghost

mcdesmo wrote: »

Hes sticking to his guns and saying no way in hell will I get the colour of it.......200 euros and hes doing me a mighty favour at that........he wont be reasonable, what can you do then?

Says he didnt know what the animal was like, saw it that morning when I dropped it in.

That’s his problem if he agreed a set price beforehand.a fcukin gangster.

Mattdhg

that's serious cowboy behaviour, Id tell him shove it, try get someone elses number in the office and deal with them

otherside of it though, if he is in charge of the place would you run the risk of being blacklisted? a lot of beef plan lads still struggling to get animals killed

mcdesmo

lakill Farm wrote: »

Tell him tough ****e and blockade the factory gates

Id feel like it all right but it would be just me on my own. I couldn't imagine that ending well.

Its hugely unfair imo

mcdesmo

mcdesmo wrote: »

Id feel like it all right but it would be just me on my own. I couldn't imagine that ending well.

Its hugely unfair imo

Take the carcass back and feed your family. It's worth more to you.

Robson99

Tell him to buy the papers and to listen to the radio for the next few days.
I'm sure some reporters would like to hear your story

mcdesmo

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Take the carcass back and feed your family. It's worth more to you.

Id have to buy a chest freezer and we would be eating for a long long time so its not really worth it in that sense tbh..................They were asked for a quote in advance of bringing the animal in (which was given) they were truthfully told the particulars of the animal and they saw the animal in the flesh that morning and could have refused him at that point if there was such a problem with him ....and I was very much taken aback with the price they got back to me after the fact...I let the animal go accepting it wouldn't be a great price but not expecting a near 90% haircut.......I didn't bring him in expecting to get 265kg of beef back and that was clear when he was brought in too....there's something wrong there.

Robson99

What fat score was he ?

mcdesmo

Robson99 wrote: »

Tell him to buy the papers and to listen to the radio for the next few days.
I'm sure some reporters would like to hear your story

Yep...I'm beginning to be of a mind, there's bargaining and there's taking the piss altogether.

Siamsa Sessions

He said 3.50/kg (€800), then changed to €100, and now is saying it's €200.

Stick to your guns for now anyway and tell him you want the carcase back. If you're in the IFA, it might be worth giving your county chair a call. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying they will get you the €800 but it would be no harm to have someone else on your side.

Odelay

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

He said 3.50/kg (€800), then changed to €100, and now is saying it's €200.

Stick to your guns for now anyway and tell him you want the carcase back. If you're in the IFA, it might be worth giving your county chair a call. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying they will get you the €800 but it would be no harm to have someone else on your side.

iFA definitely worth talking to about this.

mcdesmo

Robson99 wrote: »

What fat score was he ?

I'm not the best of judges but truthfully he wasn't great, he wasn't skin and bones altogether now either....I thought probably a 2 but he could be a one.......dairy cross but not nearly as skin and bones around the rear end as an underfed cull cow or anything......hip bones distinguishable, not much fat around the tailhead, ribs not visible but I didnt press against side to see if I could feel them just under.....rear end not excessively narrow but lean.......only an ok shape to him...definitely nothing special...wouldnt have good conformation but not the worst Ive ever seen,...............................was my assessment of him anyway....never in my wildest dreams did I assess him as 100 euros total however....If i knew then what I know id see if I could make an internet celebrity out of him like benji the bull.

epfff

mcdesmo wrote: »

I'm not the best of judges but truthfully he wasn't great, he wasn't skin and bones altogether now either....I thought probably a 2 but he could be a one.......dairy cross but not nearly as skin and bones around the rear end as an underfed cull cow or anything......hip bones distinguishable, not much fat around the tailhead, ribs not visible but I didnt press against side to see if I could feel them just under.....rear end not excessively narrow but lean.......only an ok shape to him...definitely nothing special...wouldnt have good conformation but not the worst Ive ever seen,...............................was my assessment of him anyway....never in my wildest dreams did I assess him as 100 euros total however....If i knew then what I know id see if I could make an internet celebrity out of him like benji the bull.

What grade and fat score did your returns say?
Don't accept the 100 anyway

mcdesmo

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

He said 3.50/kg (€800), then changed to €100, and now is saying it's €200.

Stick to your guns for now anyway and tell him you want the carcase back. If you're in the IFA, it might be worth giving your county chair a call. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying they will get you the €800 but it would be no harm to have someone else on your side.

I definitely dont want carcass back though I'm thinking, I didnt bring him with the intention of having hundreds of kilos of meat it would take myself and the (small) family well over a year to get through...sure if hed try on offering 100 euros (if thats incorrect) would it even be the carcass of my lad and where the hell would I store it?

I'm not an IFA member unfortunately.

mcdesmo

epfff wrote: »

What grade and fat score did your returns say?
Don't accept the 100 anyway

contacted by phone, told p=, and 265 kilos.......was taken aback at the price and though it was someone taking the piss/practical joke ..and not quick enough to think of asking for fat score,......I don't go to a factory that often, tend to sell a good animal for lads that are better set up for and better able to finish an animal properly than me......thought Id be taking a haircut, just didnt think it would be a zero blade.

memorystick

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

He said 3.50/kg (€800), then changed to €100, and now is saying it's €200.

Stick to your guns for now anyway and tell him you want the carcase back. If you're in the IFA, it might be worth giving your county chair a call. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying they will get you the €800 but it would be no harm to have someone else on your side.

Forget about phoning the IFA. You’re only loosing more money. I’ll contact Pajo and the other 300 from the last stand in Rathdowney. Word is that their spears are getting bloodthirsty.

Doctors room ghost

mcdesmo wrote: »

I definitely dont want carcass back though I'm thinking, I didnt bring him with the intention of having hundreds of kilos of meat it would take myself and the (small) family well over a year to get through...sure if hed try on offering 100 euros (if thats incorrect) would it even be the carcass of my lad and where the hell would I store it?

I'm not an IFA member unfortunately.

I’d demand the carcass back and give it out in cuts to the neighbors as a gift before I’d leave it to that fcukin gangster.id also bad mouth the fcuker to anyone and everyone I’d be talking to and I’d tell him I’d be letting people know the messing he is at.
That’s a thief you’re dealing with

mcdesmo

mcdesmo wrote: »

Id have to buy a chest freezer and we would be eating for a long long time so its not really worth it in that sense tbh..................They were asked for a quote in advance of bringing the animal in (which was given) they were truthfully told the particulars of the animal and they saw the animal in the flesh that morning and could have refused him at that point if there was such a problem with him ....and I was very much taken aback with the price they got back to me after the fact...I let the animal go accepting it wouldn't be a great price but not expecting a near 90% haircut.......I didn't bring him in expecting to get 265kg of beef back and that was clear when he was brought in too....there's something wrong there.

If you've to give the meat away it would still be a better deal.
Lots of people who'd appreciate it.

Where are you based?

Dunedin

mcdesmo wrote: »

Id have to buy a chest freezer and we would be eating for a long long time so its not really worth it in that sense tbh...................

I’d seriously throw it in a ditch befor I’d let him keep it at that money.

Dinzee Conlee

memorystick wrote: »

Forget about phoning the IFA. You’re only loosing more money. I’ll contact Pajo and the other 300 from the last stand in Rathdowney. Word is that their spears are getting bloodthirsty.

A few phone calls isn’t going to cost much, and I think the IFA are good at handling local issues like this...
If the IFA help, join em next year if you like. If they don’t, the don’t join em... simple enough...

Good loser

Contact a solicitor?


Donate the carcase/cuts to a charity?

epfff

mcdesmo wrote: »

contacted by phone, told p=, and 265 kilos.......was taken aback at the price and though it was someone taking the piss/practical joke ..and not quick enough to think of asking for fat score,......I don't go to a factory that often, tend to sell a good animal for lads that are better set up for and better able to finish an animal properly than me......thought Id be taking a haircut, just didnt think it would be a zero blade.

@265 kgs for dog food is worth more than 100
I would be in favour of gifting it to the local dogs before I'd leave it to factory.
I'd stand at the gate with me poster and hope to be arrested to rise me profile get it to media (but then again my wife tells me I let little things bother me too much)
You don't kill regularly so what have you to lose by going to medis

oneten

its likely the 3.50 a kilo he quoted you would be base price for R- 2+ to R- 4= , in spec and underage
very unlikely he offered 3.50 /kilo for P grade ,non QA, overage animal, He's riding ya no doubt but there's been miscommunication or misunderstanding somewhere along the line , all you can do is fight your corner the best you can but on that type of animal they can do what they like if you dont have a price agreed for the type of animal you're bringing

Bass Reeves

Even canners are worth 1.5-2/kg. I imagine that he killed FS 1. I assume that an agent did not see him. Problem is at the factory intake in general nobody really looks at the cattle however that the processor's own fault. I say it was a 3.5 base, which is less 36c/kg for P+ and 6/kg for ever FS fraction below FS3. This time of year it the grading machines can be hard on the FS for cattle off grass . Processor's do not like FS1 cattle. But if he was FS1+ he should at most be 60c/kg off the base. However processor's hate FS 1cattle

cute geoge

So if an animal goes to the factory and the grade is not on the grid the price paid is up to the manager .On another note what is the minimum weight for heifers and bullocks and again what price cuts are made for these

DukeCaboom

cute geoge wrote: »

So if an animal goes to the factory and the grade is not on the grid the price paid is up to the manager .On another note what is the minimum weight for heifers and bullocks and again what price cuts are made for these

220 kg min weight down here and any cow under 600lbs gets absolutely pantsed.

Bass Reeves

cute geoge wrote: »

So if an animal goes to the factory and the grade is not on the grid the price paid is up to the manager .On another note what is the minimum weight for heifers and bullocks and again what price cuts are made for these

If you look at the grid on the FJ they give from FS2+ to FS4+ and from + to U+ and they say for animals falling outside this spec contact factory.

In the case of OP's bullock as well he was not QA. That means he cannot go into burger meat for the bif burger chains nor for mince for large retailers. His FS is critical for his case and if he was seen by an agent. Unless he was FS 2=/+ at least he have no steak or prime cuts. At over 30 months and 265khs DW He may have been seriously underfleshed.

I had a bullock and heifer like this over the years. They probably had BVD I sold both through the mart there are lads that specialise in cattle like that

josephsoap

Would a small abattoir have been a better place for him instead of commercial factory ?

Bass Reeves

josephsoap wrote: »

Would a small abattoir have been a better place for him instead of commercial factory ?

It unlike they would have taken him. However you would be told this before you dropped him off. Really he was only suitable for the mart.

Sheep breeder

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you look at the grid on the FJ they give from FS2+ to FS4+ and from + to U+ and they say for animals falling outside this spec contact factory.

In the case of OP's bullock as well he was not QA. That means he cannot go into burger meat for the bif burger chains nor for mince for large retailers. His FS is critical for his case and if he was seen by an agent. Unless he was FS 2=/+ at least he have no steak or prime cuts. At over 30 months and 265khs DW He may have been seriously underfleshed.

I had a bullock and heifer like this over the years. They probably had BVD I sold both through the mart there are lads that specialise in cattle like that

Nail on the head, animal over 30 months with summer grass in him and hanging 265 and P1 grade, a carcass like than will no set very well in the chills and as bass says what cuts are available for sale and what market can this be used for dog food. Need to remember this animal is in the food chain and ask yourself would you eat meat from the animal.
The OP needs to tell what age,breed, and health status.

mcdesmo

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Nail on the head, animal over 30 months with summer grass in him and hanging 265 and P1 grade, a carcass like than will no set very well in the chills and as bass says what cuts are available for sale and what market can this be used for dog food. Need to remember this animal is in the food chain and ask yourself would you eat meat from the animal.
The OP needs to tell what age,breed, and health status.

35 months, simx, no health issues that affect the carcass, he had however a half of one hoof removed last summer (vet mentioned he may have got a deep prod from something, septic arthritis, has walked fine since) so I removed him from the main group he was with (as hed be bullied) and kept him with a view to letting him off in the factory down the line.

Didnt want to sell him in mart as I wasnt going to hope someone wouldnt notice (just wouldnt do that to someone anyway) and presumed there would be a deep discount for him as id inform the buyer and who would want to take the risk he gets another prod and then cant walk...so I took that risk assuming (stupid me) that half of a hoof doesnt matter too much in the grand scheme of things at time of slaughter....I thought it was the best thing to do and that was what he was most suitable for.

The man I dealt with over the phone was given all the details about the bullock and said 3.50 a kilo the same man saw the bullock the morning I dropped him off. In fact he when he was told about the hoof over the phone he said it was no problem at all. Why didnt he just turn the animal away if he didnt want him? Thats a big stumbling block for me.

I was starting to give him a bit of meal but just decided to cut my losses with the drought and water situation etc and let him off as weeks of meal feeding was looking like more expense and hassle for no reward , I wasnt expecting to be made up just didnt realise they can just decide after the fact to pay what they like.......


Look Im not trying to pull a fast one here, if 3.50 a kilo is too much for what the animal is then what is a reasonable price? And I mean being very reasonable to them as I'm assuming (perhaps stupidly) that 100 euro isnt being reasonable at all.

Its hard to stomach 3.50 turning into 0.38, now obviously im a bit green but I honestly remember dropping a ghost of an animal about a half the size of this lad up to Ballyjamesduff years ago and being surprised at how well he did....different times I know but it still seems fishy to me to be told after all that you are being done a favour at 100 euros........

locha

Important question is are you dealing with a procurement guy or factory manager/owner. If it’s procurement your not going to get much further. Elevate it and also ask how much they charge for killing if you want to take the carcass back- it’s not a free service. Also put all the events in writing and post/email it to the factory.

mcdesmo

locha wrote: »

Important question is are you dealing with a procurement guy or factory manager/owner. If it’s procurement your not going to get much further. Elevate it and also ask how much they charge for killing if you want to take the carcass back- it’s not a free service. Also put all the events in writing and post/email it to the factory.

Its not procurement or an agent, its manager/owner.

Bass Reeves

McD I can see why you are annoyed. If he saw the animal at intake it's his issue. If he went to the mart you have to declare the issue otherwise he could be returned to you because of physical deformation. Animals by themselves do not thrive, sending an underfinished animal to the factory is usually not an option

However you had declared it and he saw him at intake so in reality he has to accept some part of the blame for the situation he finds himself in.

mcdesmo

Bass Reeves wrote: »

McD I can see why you are annoyed. If he saw the animal at intake it's his issue. If he went to the mart you have to declare the issue otherwise he could be returned to you because of physical deformation. Animals by themselves do not thrive, sending an underfinished animal to the factory is usually not an option

However you had declared it and he saw him at intake so in reality he has to accept some part of the blame for the situation he finds himself in.

With that being said everyone can make a mistake and I know what its like to be mad busy and rushed into poor decision, my mistake was being green and taking a person at their word etc Im just wondering whats fair play here? I suppose I think I'm being taken advantage of here with whats being offered and you'd swear I was some sort of criminal with how it was offered but I wont go into that.

I didnt act in bad faith or certainly didnt mean to do so, I dont want to crucify someone but dont want to be taken advantage of here......whats a very fair number for them would you think?....just so I can move on (if disappointed)

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

McD I can see why you are annoyed. If he saw the animal at intake it's his issue. If he went to the mart you have to declare the issue otherwise he could be returned to you because of physical deformation. Animals by themselves do not thrive, sending an underfinished animal to the factory is usually not an option

However you had declared it and he saw him at intake so in reality he has to accept some part of the blame for the situation he finds himself in.

I'd consider a FS 1 a casualty, you'd have to see him hanging up before you'd go charging in. Farmers should insist on seeing a queried animal even with the present regulations, some carcases can be sh..e though
Without even seeing him I can say now I'd rather not be eating him. something desperate wrong with him to be a 265kg FS1 at 35 mths

Bass Reeves

mcdesmo wrote: »

With that being said everyone can make a mistake and I know what its like to be mad busy and rushed into poor decision, my mistake was being green and taking a person at their word etc Im just wondering whats fair play here? I suppose I think I'm being taken advantage of here with whats being offered and you'd swear I was some sort of criminal with how it was offered but I wont go into that.

I didnt act in bad faith or certainly didnt mean to do so, I dont want to crucify someone but dont want to be taken advantage of here......whats a very fair number for them would you think?....just so I can move on (if disappointed)

Well over10 years ago I had a bull with 1-2 warts on his rod. I spoke to the vet and asked what could be done . He said there was an operation to remove rod and make the bull/ bullick pee like a heifer but he said to try to keep clean and fatten as fast as possible and let him off did this got on ok ish. It was early summer when I spotted it.

Roll on3-4 years later had another but worse and no thrive on the animal different vet from same practice, asked about the operation would not recommend it send him to the factory. He was an O=1=, got absolutely rode, agent has seen him as well.

I saw one to two done after and animals thrived enough to make finish. It seems that vet (Youngish vet only employed within the practice) did not like doing jobs like that. I was annoyed with the agent and we had words about it from the point of view he should have indicated how bad the price would be and if he had I have got vet to do operation no matter the risk he let on it was.

The other thing I learned over the years is not to send underfinished cattle go the factory if at all possible. And I'd I do I make sure they are flat priced before hand

Prices were at a base of over 4/kg and I was QA do he could be minced. I got I think 2/kg. But I'm you case the factory manager saw the animal, he quoted on the basis as well.of all info. If you get 1.5-2/kg I be willing to walk away 400-500 euro. But in reality factory manager should have send you home with him when he saw him