360M euro per year to be spent on cycling and walking infrastructure

Harpon

As part of the new program for government. Does anyone know how much per year is currently spent on this?

Amirani

This would be a fantastic benefit for cyclists and walkers if they could get this over the line. In fairness to the Greens, they've been streets ahead of any other party in pushing cycling infrastructure.

07Lapierre

350 million! that's a lot of paint and greenways!

cgcsb

I'm not sure if lack of money was a problem before. Millions of euros and 10 years was wasted on the liffey cycle route for example and no results were produced. I assumed it was political opposition and possibly corruption that kept cycle lanes out of Dublin.

beggars_bush

Amirani wrote: »

This would be a fantastic benefit for cyclists and walkers if they could get this over the line. In fairness to the Greens, they've been streets ahead of any other party in pushing cycling infrastructure.

That's because some of their public representative actually use bikes

Daroxtar

Might be no harm to spend a good chunk of that on educational and public relations programs to change attitudes towards vulnerable road users. I'd feel safer on the road if more people cared.

ExMachina1000

1 million euro to spend everyday on cycling and walking for 5 years

godtabh

spend it on behavioral changes across the board. pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

I hope the estuary cycleway goes ahead.

I hope they connect Donabate to Lusk afterwards and don't shoot off on some alternative back route to Ardgillan.

It would be fantastic if the Greenway did Lusk-Donabate-Malahide. Malahide is a beautiful town. Would be a nice place to cycle.

magicbastarder

many ways to skin a cat.
i wonder if creating multiple cycle superhighways is one option to address commuting cycling. i'm probably reinventing the wheel that is busconnects (and my concern is that they'll spin busconnects to be mainly about cycling, do the same thing, but claim the money from the cycling budget)

on the northside, have several main routes into the city - coastal option is largely sorted; but malahide road, swords road, N2 and navan road beefed up to make them better for cycling on. create orbital routes on griffith avenue and/or collins avenue (a we're not taking you gardens but tough ****, you ain't parking on the road approach), and most people would live within a kilometre or so of one of these options?
finish the greenway in along the royal canal, job done for the northside.

interestingly, the road patterns on the southside are more scattered, but that's a result of the wicklow mountains, i guess. but having a decent option for people cycling in from lucan would be great; i've not done it but it doesn't sound like a pleasant experience.

Fian

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wX0AXNK697FbGVzihMGuIH6HdmQk0_pU/view

page 13 sets out the highlights.

Bike to work scheme extended to e-bikes and if i understand it correctly at an increased ceiling - so more than €1k available in e-bikes case.

Widen the eligibility of the Bike to Work scheme. We
will provide an increased proportionate allowance for
e-bikes and cargo bikes.

This commitment will deliver a five-year, multi-annual funding
programme linked with a specific target of new separated
cycling and walking infrastructure, which will be delivered
or under construction by the end of 2024. This will enable a
step change in the number of people taking daily journeys by
foot and bicycle, which will help improve quality of life and air quality


Mandate that every local authority, with assistance
from the National Transport Authority (NTA), adopts
a high-quality cycling policy, carries out an assessment
of their roads network and develops cycle network
plans, which will be implemented with the help of a
suitably qualified Cycling Officer with clear powers
and roles.
· Expand and enhance the expertise on active travel
needed to dramatically improve infrastructure and
participation both in the NTA and local authorities,
including by establishing Regional Cycle Design Offices,
co-located in the seven Regional Design Offices for
roads, to support local authorities.

Dramatically increase the number of children walking
and cycling to primary and secondary school by
mandating the Department of Transport to work with

schools across Ireland, local authorities, the Green-
Schools programme and local initiatives, including

Cycle Bus and School Streets.
· Widen the eligibility of the Bike to Work scheme. We
will provide an increased proportionate allowance for
e-bikes and cargo bikes.
· Ramp up the Cycle Right programme to ensure that all
children are offered cycling training in primary school.
· Conduct a review of road traffic policy and legislation
to prioritise the safety of walking and cycling.

Greenways
We will lead the development of an integrated national
greenways strategy. This has the potential to transform modal
shift and improve air quality and public health.
This commitment to cycling will enable us to achieve the
huge ambition of developing an integrated national network
of greenways to be used by commuters, leisure cyclists and
tourists. We will continue the coordinated approach between
central government, local authorities, and agencies to deliver
on this ambition.

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

many ways to skin a cat.
i wonder if creating multiple cycle superhighways is one option to address commuting cycling. i'm probably reinventing the wheel that is busconnects (and my concern is that they'll spin busconnects to be mainly about cycling, do the same thing, but claim the money from the cycling budget)

You are correct and in fact they are explicit about this:

The total spend on walking and cycling infrastructure includes
committed funding from the Department of Transport, Tourism
and Sport for active travel, greenways and an agreed pedestrian
and cycling allocation from the Bus Connects programme.

so the 10% of transport capital spending allocated to cycling will include this spending. Still a great advance.

magicbastarder

Fian wrote: »

Bike to work scheme extended to e-bikes

it already includes e-bikes but the higher price for entry to that market would put many people off.

beggars_bush

Bike retailers will be delighted

Secure bike storage facilities in towns and cities is a huge few issue

Is there any point in trying to change the behaviour of adult car drivers?
Spend the money on cycling infrastructure instead

Fred Cryton

What they really should do is spend that money on creating a huge tent over Ireland to protect cyclists from the howling winds and driving rains we get in this country.

No, we are not Copenhagen or Barcelona lads.

cgcsb

Fred Cryton wrote: »

What they really should do is spend that money on creating a huge tent over Ireland to protect cyclists from the howling winds and driving rains we get in this country.

No, we are not Copenhagen or Barcelona lads.

This is like a boomer joke you might hear in the 1990s and roll your eyes and resume listening to your walkman.

Tyson Lannister

cgcsb wrote: »

This is like a boomer joke you might hear in the 1990s and roll your eyes and resume listening to your walkman.

Boomer - stop using those americanisms over here

Peregrinus

Fred Cryton wrote: »

What they really should do is spend that money on creating a huge tent over Ireland to protect cyclists from the howling winds and driving rains we get in this country.

No, we are not Copenhagen or Barcelona lads.

Average number of rainy days per year:
Copenhagen: 171
Dublin: 151

NB: These are days on which it rains at any point in the 24 hours. Days on which it is actively raining during the morning or evening commuting hours are many fewer. The figure for Dublin is 35 days per year on which you would get wet cycling to or from work. I don't have a figure for Copenhagen, but the figure for Amsterdam is 62 days a year, so Dublin's level is clearly not incompatible with a lively cycling culture.

Are we made of sugar, or what?

Fred Cryton

cgcsb wrote: »

This is like a boomer joke you might hear in the 1990s and roll your eyes and resume listening to your walkman.

Thanks but i'd prefer shower once a day, not 3 times after getting soaked on the way into and out of work. Not to mention almost getting blown into the ocean by howling horizontal winds.

Daroxtar

Daroxtar wrote: »

Might be no harm to spend a good chunk of that on educational and public relations programs to change attitudes towards vulnerable road users. I'd feel safer on the road if more people cared.

Reminds me of something I saw the other night. An X5 driver just had to overtake a father and young son out for a cycle. Rather than waiting 10 seconds for oncoming traffic to pass he close passed them and forced the oncoming car to jam on.

Sadly this selfish entitled behaviour is not an uncommon sight.

Fred Cryton

Peregrinus wrote: »

Average number of rainy days per year:
Copenhagen: 171
Dublin: 151

NB: These are days on which it rains at any point in the 24 hours. Days on which it is actively raining during the morning or evening commuting hours are many fewer. The figure for Dublin is 35 days per year on which you would get wet cycling to or from work. I don't have a figure for Copenhagen, but the figure for Amsterdam is 62 days a year, so Dublin's level is clearly not incompatible with a lively cycling culture.

Are we made of sugar, or what?

Wind speeds are far worse in Dublin for cyclists than Copenhagen. There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

cgcsb

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Thanks but i'd prefer shower once a day, not 3 times after getting soaked on the way into and out of work. Not to mention almost getting blown into the ocean by howling horizontal winds.

How did previous generations of people survive in Ireland?

Peregrinus

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Wind speeds are far worse in Dublin for cyclists than Copenhagen. There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

Denmark is famously windy; hence all the wind power. I don't have figures, but I'd be very surprised if Copenhagen were not a windier city than Dublin.

You're just lookin' for excuses not to cycle, ya wimp, ya!

keane2097

Fred Cryton wrote: »

There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

You do a lot of cycling in different types of wet weather conditions of course I have no doubt.

Kander

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Wind speeds are far worse in Dublin for cyclists than Copenhagen. There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

Not according to these statistics:

Dublin - https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Wind-speed,Dublin,Ireland

Copenhagen - https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Wind-speed,copenhagen,Denmark

No average month of the year is windier in Dublin over Copenhagen.

loyatemu

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Wind speeds are far worse in Dublin for cyclists than Copenhagen. There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

are you sure you're living in Dublin and not, say, Rockall?

Internet Friend

Wind...sounds like good training weather to me...

Large bottle small glass

Kander wrote: »

Not according to these statistics:

Dublin - https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Wind-speed,Dublin,Ireland

Copenhagen - https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Wind-speed,copenhagen,Denmark

No average month of the year is windier in Dublin over Copenhagen.

Data won't convince someone who has their mind made up in relation to climate in my experience.

My father recorded the daily rainfall for 5 or 6 years after he retired. Same time every morning, little device measured within 1/100 of an inch. My brother transferred in to excel spreadsheet.

Any time someone would complain that
* it was worst year ever
*we never had rain like this years ago etc etc
would remain steadfast when I reminded them that the local rainfall for 4 years running never went 100mm from the predicted 1200mm average.

Geuze

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Thanks but i'd prefer shower once a day, not 3 times after getting soaked on the way into and out of work. Not to mention almost getting blown into the ocean by howling horizontal winds.

I cycle regularly to work along a 1km stretch of road, exposed to west coast.

It's grand.

Yes, there are some rainy days.

But overall it's fine.

Like I mentioned in a thread the other day, I'd rather be wet and moving than dry and stood at a bus stop or sat in traffic.

When I first moved to Dublin my commute involved waiting on a bus that may or may not be full in the morning on a notoriously bad route so could be there 10-30 minutes until one came or had space. Sometimes... often the first bus scheduled wouldn't arrive at all leading to later busses to be full , then 30-45 minutes on said bus followed by a 20 minute walk to work.

The way home was usually worse traffic wise especially in Dundrum.

This was winter too so busses were cramped and dripping in condensation.

Only took 3 or 4 weeks to get sick of that and a bike was acquired. 20 minutes each way rain or shine and a hot shower waiting for me at either end of the journey.

buffalo

loyatemu wrote: »

are you sure you're living in Dublin and not, say, Rockall?

Rockall isn't Copenhagen or Barcelona lads!



...I'm not sure what my logic is, much like the OP I suspect.

Hurrache

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Wind speeds are far worse in Dublin for cyclists than Copenhagen. There's a big difference between gentle falling rain and howling horizontal rain for a cyclist.

Man up so and get some muscle into your puny legs. Embrace the exercise.

Fred Cryton

Hurrache wrote: »

Man up so and get some muscle into your puny legs. Embrace the exercise.

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.



Ultimately what will kill cycling dead in Ireland is our low population density caused by decades of bad planning. Good luck asking a 50 year old to cycle 30 miles to work. In Copenhagen, the middle class lives in the city centre making cycling more viable.

ExMachina1000

1.8 billion overall. Raise taxes to cover it. Job done

ec18

wonder when the cycling to work changes will be announced? budget time?

I was planning on buying an e bike for getting to and from work to avoid public transport and some fresh air every day, and this announcement has me wondering whether would be better off waiting now :9

Raisins

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Boomer - stop using those americanisms over here

Ok boomer.

Duckjob

beggars_bush wrote: »

Is there any point in trying to change the behaviour of adult car drivers?
Spend the money on cycling infrastructure instead

Agree. Brute force the increase in cycling for now by putting in infra people can feed safe to use right now.

Changes to attitudes and behavior will happen organically over time as cycling becomes more normal for more people and everybody either cycles themselves sometimes or else has partners, kids, parents etc that cycle.

Ferris

ec18 wrote: »

I was planning on buying an e bike for getting to and from work to avoid public transport and some fresh air every day, and this announcement has me wondering whether would be better off waiting now :9

Just buy the ebike, the savings you make vs fuel / fares will offset any grant which may become available. Also you will get fitter and feel better. I have just started back commuting on the ebike instead of using the car (which I put off the road) post lockdown and its been great.

Thinking of selling the car now to fund a cargo bike so I can continue to drop kids etc.

Raisins

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.

Ultimately what will kill cycling dead in Ireland is our low population density caused by decades of bad planning. Good luck asking a 50 year old to cycle 30 miles to work. In Copenhagen, the middle class lives in the city centre making cycling more viable.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of Irish people do not drive 30 miles to work let alone cycle. Not true in rural Ireland and city wise Drogheda, Naas, Kildare aren’t even 30 miles from stephens green.

Older generations years ago in rural Ireland cycled more than those that cycle there today.

I’ve also lived in the Netherlands and loads of people cycle into the city on designated, separate, tarmac, cycle lanes. They’re well lit and very safe.

Urbanisation argument is a total myth.

loyatemu

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Ultimately what will kill cycling dead in Ireland is our low population density caused by decades of bad planning. Good luck asking a 50 year old to cycle 30 miles to work. In Copenhagen, the middle class lives in the city centre making cycling more viable.

1. It's too windy - CHECK
2. It's too wet - CHECK
3. Cycling doesn't suit every single person in the country, therefore it's a waste of money - CHECK

keep 'em coming...

beauf

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.


Ultimately what will kill cycling dead in Ireland is our low population density caused by decades of bad planning. Good luck asking a 50 year old to cycle 30 miles to work. In Copenhagen, the middle class lives in the city centre making cycling more viable.

They are not legitimate concerns.

The vast majority of people do not live 30k from work.
Even if they did, eBikes make this a non issue.
Just because you promote cycling doesn't mean everyone has to cycle.

FinnC

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I hope the estuary cycleway goes ahead.

I hope they connect Donabate to Lusk afterwards and don't shoot off on some alternative back route to Ardgillan.

It would be fantastic if the Greenway did Lusk-Donabate-Malahide. Malahide is a beautiful town. Would be a nice place to cycle.

magicbastarder wrote: »

many ways to skin a cat.
i wonder if creating multiple cycle superhighways is one option to address commuting cycling. i'm probably reinventing the wheel that is busconnects (and my concern is that they'll spin busconnects to be mainly about cycling, do the same thing, but claim the money from the cycling budget)

on the northside, have several main routes into the city - coastal option is largely sorted; but malahide road, swords road, N2 and navan road beefed up to make them better for cycling on. create orbital routes on griffith avenue and/or collins avenue (a we're not taking you gardens but tough ****, you ain't parking on the road approach), and most people would live within a kilometre or so of one of these options?
finish the greenway in along the royal canal, job done for the northside.

interestingly, the road patterns on the southside are more scattered, but that's a result of the wicklow mountains, i guess. but having a decent option for people cycling in from lucan would be great; i've not done it but it doesn't sound like a pleasant experience.

Well hopefully it's not just Dublin where all this money will be spent!!

Springy Turf

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.

I have legitimate concerns about the amount of resources we waste on people who want to drive their cars on their own in and out of urban areas, to the detriment of everyone else.

You have yet to provide a credible reason why your concerns are "Legitimate". The "We are not Copenhagen" argument has certainly fallen apart. The 30 mile commute exists, but its not most commuters - and probably park + ride is the solution here. Finally, e-bikes are an extremely cheap (Compared to cars or commuter ticket costs) way of getting people in and out of work, with little to no exertion if they so wish.

Hurrache

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.

You haven't raised any legitimate concerns about a waste of resources.

Ferris

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.

In the UK they did a study on the return of investment of the cycle paths associated with the HS2 and found that it delivered twice the return of the rail development and multiples of an equivalent motorway. Most of the savings were associated with lower maintenenace requirements and - cruically - savings in healthcare / NHS. So if you look at it objectively, building motorways and rail infrastructure is a greater waste of resourses than building cycle infrastructure

I should say they canned the cycle paths for the HS2 due to budget overruns but thats the UK 'innit.

daragh_

Fred Cryton wrote: »

This is a very Irish response. Bully and lampoon those who raise legitimate concerns about waste of resources.



Ultimately what will kill cycling dead in Ireland is our low population density caused by decades of bad planning. Good luck asking a 50 year old to cycle 30 miles to work. In Copenhagen, the middle class lives in the city centre making cycling more viable.

I'm 50 and I cycle 20k each way in to work. 5 days a week. But I get the feeling actual facts aren't your thing.

Fred Cryton

loyatemu wrote: »

1. It's too windy - CHECK
2. It's too wet - CHECK
3. Cycling doesn't suit every single person in the country, therefore it's a waste of money - CHECK

keep 'em coming...

Correction - Cycling doesn't suit about 90% of the working population of this country.



Let me add a fourth - how do you propose to drop off little Johnny and Mary at school in September? on the back of the bike? (bearing in mind the school is likely to be located a substantial distance from the office)

Hurrache

Johhny and Mary I'm sure know how to cycle, and if the money is spent on improving their route all the better.

I, and I'm sure many here, manage it. Some better than others, my family use car pooling, others here have the luxury of being able to cycle with their kids to school and continue on to their place of work.

But it's a red herring, are you implying that money shouldn't be spend because kids may have to get dropped to school?

daragh_

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Let me add a fourth - how do you propose to drop off little Johnny and Mary at school in September? on the back of the bike?

Did that for all 3 of my kids until they were big enough to walk or cycle. Worked fine. And kept my car from clogging up the road outside the school.

keane2097

This seems very genuine

07Lapierre

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Correction - Cycling doesn't suit about 90% of the working population of this country.



Let me add a fourth - how do you propose to drop off little Johnny and Mary at school in September? on the back of the bike? (bearing in mind the school is likely to be located a substantial distance from the office)

Agree ... you'd need a BMW X5 3.0diesel to drop 3 kids to school right?

https://www.facebook.com/stuffdutchpeoplelike/videos/how-to-ride-a-bike-with-3-kids-plus-bags/1040813712637225/