All ICE imports to be banned from 2030 - incl used...

galwaytt

er, discuss...

https://amp-irishexaminer-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-petrol-and-diesel-cars-to-be-banned-by-2030-under-proposed-climate-action-bill-973833.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15922248396167&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

New petrol and diesel cars to be banned by 2030 under proposed Climate Action Bill

This Climate Action Bill will force transport, agriculture, and energy sectors, which are most responsible for rising CO2 emissions, to get their houses in order over the next 10 years by enshrining targets into law.

"Other European markets are thinking more about 2040. We feel that would be a more realistic target. In the past, we've set targets and deadlines without having a plan. This is putting the cart before the horse."

"The new draft law Minister Bruton announced will be published today will be the real test of whether Leo Varadkar's government is serious about stepping up on climate change," said Oisín Coghlan, coordinator with Stop Climate Chaos.

Leonard Hofstadter

Way to make sure car sales go through the floor for the next 10 years.

We all know how tone deaf the Greens are to the needs of everyone that doesn't live in the wealthy parts of South County Dublin, but evidently the leadership of FF and FG thinks that their voters' needs, and the needs of the rest of the country don't matter either.

Will be fun to see how this works out given that EVs are currently 3% of the new car sales mix.

Also a proposal in the PfG to review speed limits with a view to reducing carbon emissions, so say goodbye to 120 km/h motorways, which are NOT fast for motorways to begin with.

Atlantic Dawn

Being anti nuclear but happy to take nuclear generated electricity from the UK and France to charge all these new electric cars is another mess.

colm_mcm

Let’s ban turf and wood burning stoves first. How about oil fired central heating while we’re at it.


Thought not.

marcos_94

colm_mcm wrote: »

Let’s ban turf and wood burning stoves first. How about oil fired central heating while we’re at it.


Thought not.

Thats all hopefully coming as well:
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0617/1055740-boilers/

There will be a crackdown on new central heating systems in particular to begin as well as incentives to get people to install heat pumps and the likes to replace their oil and gas boilers.

ianobrien

2029 will be a bumper year for vehicle sales....

There no point in us putting out these targets. It's the availability of vehicles that will decide if we can make it or not. None of the manufacturers will be altering their plans based on this. Ireland is such a small market.

Also lumped into this is light commercial vehicles (according to the draft of the agreement I've seen online). If this is true, that's some laugh as imagine the postman or courier trying to do deliveries in West Cork or Connemara with a short range. Sure the range is only about 100km loaded. That won't work (when compared to a car range of 300/400km)

ianobrien

marcos_94 wrote: »

Thats all hopefully coming as well:
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0617/1055740-boilers/

There will be a crackdown on new central heating systems in particular to begin as well as incentives to get people to install heat pumps and the likes to replace their oil and gas boilers.

I know a plumber who when building his house, put in both a heat pump and oil fired boiler (being a plumber he could). The oil heating was cheaper then running the heat pumps.

marcos_94

ianobrien wrote: »

It's the availability of vehicles that will decide if we can make it or not. None of the manufacturers will be altering their plans based on this. Ireland is such a small market.

Completely agree, but Ireland being so small means we can be quite easily catered for. Volkswagen group aim to have 70 different EV models available by 2028 for example https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2019/03/VW_Group_JPK_19.html

Also lumped into this is light commercial vehicles (according to the draft of the agreement I've seen online). If this is true, that's some laugh as imagine the postman or courier trying to do deliveries in West Cork or Connemara with a short range. Sure the range is only about 100km loaded. That won't work (when compared to a car range of 300/400km)

The An Post centre near me has got a fleet of electric vans at the start of the year (maybe 10-12). It will be interesting to see how their experience goes. Real world tests of the electric kangoo put its real world range around 200 km

Del2005

They'll need to do something so that people who don't have their own charger can get access to cheap charging, no incentive to change to EV when you have to pay a premium to wait 40 minutes, or more if you have to queue, to refill their car.

marcos_94

ianobrien wrote: »

I know a plumber who when building his house, put in both a heat pump and oil fired boiler (being a plumber he could). The oil heating was cheaper then running the heat pumps.

Id easily believe that. Retrofitting a heat pump into an older house isnt great efficiency wise. Youd want to first tackle insulation and have a very well insulated house to fully reap the benefits of a heat pump

galwaytt

funnily enough, I thought we were in the EU, which guarantees the freedom of goods, so on what basis could any ban be implemented if it's contrary to EU law - seeing as they won't be banned across the EU ?

Cantona's Collars

marcos_94 wrote: »

Completely agree, but Ireland being so small means we can be quite easily catered for. Volkswagen group aim to have 70 different EV models available by 2028 for example https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2019/03/VW_Group_JPK_19.html



The An Post centre near me has got a fleet of electric vans at the start of the year (maybe 10-12). It will be interesting to see how their experience goes. Real world tests of the electric kangoo put its real world range around 200 km

I know someone who was given an electric van to test in real world conditions. An absolute disaster in his words.

Leonard Hofstadter

It is contrary to EU law... for now anyway. I understood there was a constitutional ban of some sort, but I think that relates to forcing petrol and diesel off the road.

I'll be sticking with ICE until such time as I'm forced to. It might make V8 ownership more affordable if prices go through the floor and will have the added advantage of annoying the eco mentalists in the Green party, too.

cgcsb

The emphasis isn't solely on a transition to EVs the emphasis is on moving away from cars entirely. Ultimately there isn't enough lithium and cobolt on Earth for every western world household to afford an EV. The transport budget is being re-balanced in favour of PT/walking and cycling.

They stop short of curtailing one off housing which is really rural Ireland's biggest issue in terms of transport. I guess they have it sussed that natural economic factors will reduce the rural population anyway.

marcos_94

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I know someone who was given an electric van to test in real world conditions. An absolute disaster in his words.

I definitely think that electric vans dont suit every need right now, but they can only get better as battery tech improves and battery costs come down. Only experience Iv personally had with electric vans was while working in rural Denmark at a chemical processing plant where they had two electric Mercedes Vitos. Suited the needs of the plant at the time (4 years ago)

tom1ie

I regularly do 1000km a week in my diesel insignia, with one way trips of 300km and no destination charging available.
What ev car is there that can do this without having to charge 5 times a week, that doesn’t cost over 10k?
If my insignia broke down tomorrow I could pick another one up for less than 10k.
There isn’t one. I don’t even think a model s or 3 can do this and they cost 45k plus.

marcos_94

tom1ie wrote: »

I regularly do 1000km a week in my diesel insignia, with one way trips of 300km and no destination charging available.
What ev car is there that can do this without having to charge 5 times a week, that doesn’t cost over 10k?
If my insignia broke down tomorrow I could pick another one up for less than 10k.
There isn’t one. I don’t even think a model s or 3 can do this and they cost 45k plus.

Completely agree that used electric cars arent cheap enough yet nor do they have the range to suit everyone's needs. In your case, they probably wont fit your criteria (sub 10k cost, 500km range minimum) until mid 2020s earliest, but a technology has to start somewhere. Think of how far ICE vehicles have advanced since their inception. battery technology is advancing at a rapid rate both in terms of cost and technology.

Never looked it up before but found article from the UK of the longest range EVs available to them:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/longest-range-electric-cars-ev/

TrailerBob

It's a pander to the greens to get them into Government. It also doesn't mean the current fleet or that sold up until 2030 will be going away anytime soon. You simply can't force people to buy a new car. Until a relatively reliable second hand EV can be had for 5 grand, there's a lot of people who can't do a whole lot.

zilog_jones

tom1ie wrote: »

I regularly do 1000km a week in my diesel insignia, with one way trips of 300km and no destination charging available.
What ev car is there that can do this without having to charge 5 times a week, that doesn’t cost over 10k?
If my insignia broke down tomorrow I could pick another one up for less than 10k.
There isn’t one. I don’t even think a model s or 3 can do this and they cost 45k plus.

If this goes ahead and that's your budget, it's not going to be a problem for you for at least another 20 years or so. Would you even be doing the same job by then?

cnocbui

galwaytt wrote: »

funnily enough, I thought we were in the EU, which guarantees the freedom of goods, so on what basis could any ban be implemented if it's contrary to EU law - seeing as they won't be banned across the EU ?

You were wrong to be thinking that: import duty on vehicles, some people call VRT and excise duty on alcohol, being just two examples of how the EU does not have a common market, by any stretch of the imagination.

Triangle

TrailerBob wrote: »

It's a pander to the greens to get them into Government. It also doesn't mean the current fleet or that sold up until 2030 will be going away anytime soon. You simply can't force people to buy a new car. Until a relatively reliable second hand EV can be had for 5 grand, there's a lot of people who can't do a whole lot.

FG had already signed up to 7% reductions through the Paris agreement they signed.
FF know it has to be done as well. SF have signed up to reductions too.

Why do people keep thinking this is all the greens. The carbon tax was increased without the greens being in power. Now to mention the closure of two fossil fuel burning power plants.

kirving

Standard short sighted populist "Green" thinking. FF/Green government re-introduced duty on E85 (BioEthanol), because tailpipe CO2 is high. In fact, it's the cleanest ICE fuel you can use, and almost carbon neutral due to the growing process absorbing CO2. All they cared about promoting Diesel sales for their mates in SIMI rather than actually looking at the science.

They don't actually care a whole lot about long term Green transport policy outside of rabbiting on about cycling, which is completely unsustainable without real investment and action on mass transit (and I'm an avid cyclist too btw). Guts of 20 years from a range of governments talking about a non-existent Metro in Dublin, and you can forget the rest of the country where one-off housing and bad planning has all but made private cars a necessity.

Outright banning ICE cars is not the solution, at all, but certainly makes a great soundbite and headline, and noone delves any deeper into why this country is so reliant on cars.

It seems to me that the balance of incentives is always weighted heavily toward punishing than it is to rewarding the desired behaviour.

Where is our high-speed rail, metro, Luas in every major city, interconnected to regular bus services, planning policy which accounts for viability of public transport (ie: ban one off housing and encourage villages as in the UK)? Build it and they will come as the saying goes, and then car emissions suddenly aren't a problem anymore, because people will actually use other modes if available.

Royale with Cheese

Surely they mean a ban on pure ICE, as in you will still be free to buy a plug-in hybrid and then never charge it once. Possibly even just regular hybrids too?

zilog_jones

cnocbui wrote: »

You were wrong to be thinking that: import duty on vehicles, some people call VRT and excise duty on alcohol, being just two examples of how the EU does not have a common market, by any stretch of the imagination.

VRT is a tax on any vehicle being registered in Ireland, regardless of whether it is imported or not, or from outside the EU. If cars were still being assembled in Ireland, VRT would still be applicable on these. If theoretical Irish-built cars were exempt from VRT, then that would be a problem with the EU.

The Netherlands, Denmark and other countries in the EU also have punitive taxes on car registration, as they are allowed to do.

Leonard Hofstadter

The other example of how short sighted and idiotic they are is that hybrids and plug ins will not be excluded from the ban. So there is absolutely no reason to get one now. One argument for getting them is that they are more future proofed than a traditional ICE car, not any more. You might as well buy a traditional ICE which is cheaper to buy, not that much dearer to run (depending on usage), handles way better due to lighter weight and no compromises in terms of boot space or fuel tank capacity.

This has just killed off plug ins (which in the right circumstances are useful for reducing CO2 emissions) stone dead.

colm_mcm

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

The other example of how short sighted and idiotic they are is that hybrids and plug ins will not be excluded from the ban. So there is absolutely no reason to get one now. One argument for getting them is that they are more future proofed than a traditional ICE car, not any more. You might as well buy a traditional ICE which is cheaper to buy, not that much dearer to run (depending on usage), handles way better due to lighter weight and no compromises in terms of boot space or fuel tank capacity.

This has just killed off plug ins (which in the right circumstances are useful for reducing CO2 emissions) stone dead.

Plug in hybrids are only a stopgap at best, and a conjob at worst.
Carrying around an ICE just on the offchance you might need it, or using an electric motor to cheat emissions cycles?

Royale with Cheese

colm_mcm wrote: »

Plug in hybrids are only a stopgap at best, and a conjob at worst.
Carrying around an ICE just on the offchance you might need it, or using an electric motor to cheat emissions cycles?

Depends entirely on your situation. If you live in the city and the vast majority of your journies are within Dublin then they can make a lot of sense. My parents picked up a plug in Kia Niro in February and I think are still on their first tank of petrol (covid obviously made a difference there though). They'd never go full electric as they have understandable concerns about spending that much on a car that might not be suitable for 100% of they journies they would take, but they were more than happy to purchase a car that will emit no co2 for the majority of its use by them.

cournioni

Pure idiocy once again from our shambles of a government.

zilog_jones

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

The other example of how short sighted and idiotic they are is that hybrids and plug ins will not be excluded from the ban. So there is absolutely no reason to get one now.

What are you on about? The plans proposed have absolutely no effect on the car you buy now.

hmmm

I mightn't entirely like it, but good to get certainty and we can get on with putting the infrastructure in place now. It's also far enough away that the next government can suspend it if needed.

cnocbui

hmmm wrote: »

I mightn't entirely like it, but good to get certainty and we can get on with putting the infrastructure in place now. It's also far enough away that the next government can suspend it if needed.

You mean like how when governments that followed the last bunch of green loons in power, and reversed the taxation bias against petrol vs diesel?

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

funnily enough, I thought we were in the EU, which guarantees the freedom of goods, so on what basis could any ban be implemented if it's contrary to EU law - seeing as they won't be banned across the EU ?

The scope of free movement of goods is broadly about individual member states not treating goods originating from other member states differently to domestically sold/produced goods.


Ireland banning ICE cars does not contravene this.


Further, Article 36 of the TFEU allows member states to make decisions such as these when it can be justified on non-economic grounds (such as public health, public policy, environmental purposes). Norway is banning the sale of ICE cars in 2025. Sweden & Netherlands in 2030



Do some research before flapping your mouth in ignorant rage on the internet, thank you.


The same goes to the rest of the people who mistake 'outrage' for 'a valuable contribution based on knowledge and information'.

Geuze

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Being anti nuclear but happy to take nuclear generated electricity from the UK and France to charge all these new electric cars is another mess.

Yes.

I am pro-green policies in general.

But in Germany, they campaigned to close nuclear power plants, ok, but then the emissions from the coal-burning power stations increased!!

Less nuclear power, but more air pollution, and more deaths from air pollution.


Similarly, we will close down Moneypoint coal station, ok, I agree.

But we will then import French nuclear electricity.

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

I am pro-green policies in general.

But in Germany, they campaigned to close nuclear power plants, ok, but then the emissions from the coal-burning power stations increased!!

Less nuclear power, but more air pollution, and more deaths from air pollution.


Similarly, we will close down Moneypoint coal station, ok, I agree.

But we will then import French nuclear electricity.

You could have done a 30 second google search rather than posting false information.


Coal & lignite burning increased by a small amount for 4 years before precipitously declining

Geuze

Fair enough, I had read something about it

Good to see the lignite burning fall, I read that is very dirty / high emissions.

Cabaal

It is amusing seeing people blaming the greens for this, reality is this is happening sooner or later regardless of who is in power.

We hate to change our ways, but our ways will be changing.

As already pointed out, this isn't just cars this is house heating systems etc.

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Yeah but I don't see the Greens policy of taxing the absolute crap out of everything is helping the average person. Still need to heat our homes and run appliances.

What exactly are their policies of "taxing the absolute crap out of everything"?


If you're talking about carbon taxes, that's only a tax on fuel - not 'everything', and the GP's favoured method was one whereby carbon tax collected was ringfenced and redistributed back to the population. The type of scheme which the ESRI (among others) found would mean that poorer people received back more than they paid in in carbon taxes.


Do tell?

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

You could have done a 30 second google search rather than posting false information.


Coal & lignite burning increased by a small amount for 4 years before precipitously declining

What is obvious from that graph is that the Germans could have phased out lignite instead of nuclear and would have dramatically cut down on their CO2 emissions, but we need to remember the terrible death toll from Fukashima and 3 mile island.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly are their policies of "taxing the absolute crap out of everything"?


If you're talking about carbon taxes, that's only a tax on fuel - not 'everything', and the GP's favoured method was one whereby carbon tax collected was ringfenced and redistributed back to the population. The type of scheme which the ESRI (among others) found would mean that poorer people received back more than they paid in in carbon taxes.


Do tell?

Fuel is an input cost to most areas of the economy, via this thing called transport. Such costs are passed on and when they increase, so do the costs of the things transported.
Do tell.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're talking about carbon taxes, that's only a tax on fuel - not 'everything', and the GP's favoured method was one whereby carbon tax collected was ringfenced and redistributed back to the population. The type of scheme which the ESRI (among others) found would mean that poorer people received back more than they paid in in carbon taxes.

I never really understood how the pay the tax then redistribute it made it better. Can you correct my understanding. I'm going to use a simplified example.

If there are two families, one who can afford the deep retrofit of the house and EV purchase and one who can't.
Both families pay a carbon tax at the end of the year and it is then distributed equally back to the tax payers.

Family A, contributes 25% of the total tax pot and get 50% of the pot back.
Family B, contributes 75% of the pot and get 50% of it back.

So family A can afford the upgrade, get lower energy bills, lower tax bills, and take money off the poorer family?

So family B is worse off overall, and we've redistributed carbon

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

What is obvious from that graph is that the Germans could have phased out lignite instead of nuclear and would have dramatically cut down on their CO2 emissions, but we need to remember the terrible death toll from Fukashima and 3 mile island.

What's that got to do with anything? Do you somehow think that's relevant to either Geuze's post or mine, because if you do I'd suggest you think for a bit longer before you post.


I'm also pro-nuclear (and importation of such), though not in Ireland as the economies of scale don't make sense with the current size of in-production reactors.

cnocbui wrote: »

Fuel is an input cost to most areas of the economy, via this thing called transport. Such costs are passed on and when they increase, so do the costs of the things transported.
Do tell.

Another "HAHA I GOT YOU" point from you yet it's based on nothing.


Have a look at http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2019/Documents/Economic%20and%20Environmental%20impacts%20of%20Increasing%20Carbon%20Tax.pdf
specifically page 21. The change in producer prices for land/air transportation services is only estimated to increase by 1.1% for a €20 increase in carbon tax, and the report makes note that this is only in the short-run and will decrease as companies adapt.



Do tell what exactly? That you're yet another poster mistaking their opinion for actual evidence? 🤷*♂️

liamog

liamog wrote: »

I never really understood how the pay the tax then redistribute it made it better. Can you correct my understanding. I'm going to use a simplified example.

If there are two families, one who can afford the deep retrofit of the house and EV purchase and one who can't.
Both families pay a carbon tax at the end of the year and it is then distributed equally back to the tax payers.

Family A, contributes 25% of the total tax pot and get 50% of the pot back.
Family B, contributes 75% of the pot and get 50% of it back.

So family A can afford the upgrade, get lower energy bills, lower tax bills, and take money off the poorer family?

So family B is worse off overall, and we've redistributed carbon

In the spirit of gross simplifications,




1) Families with lower income pay a higher proportion of income on carbon taxes


2) Families with higher income pay a significantly higher absolute amount in carbon taxes




Family 1 pays €1,600 per year in carbon taxes that represents 5% of their net income


Family 2 pays €1,600 per year in carbon taxes that represents 5% of their net income


Family 3 pays €4,000 per year in carbon taxes that represents 2% of their net income


Each family receives €2,400 back at the end of the year.


Household upgrades weren't meant to be tied into carbon tax refunds and should have been structured as being financially feasible for all, including those of lower income/lesser wealth.

marklazarcovic

marcos_94 wrote: »

Completely agree, but Ireland being so small means we can be quite easily catered for. Volkswagen group aim to have 70 different EV models available by 2028 for example https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2019/03/VW_Group_JPK_19.html



The An Post centre near me has got a fleet of electric vans at the start of the year (maybe 10-12). It will be interesting to see how their experience goes. Real world tests of the electric kangoo put its real world range around 200 km

ive driven one for 3 weeks for an post,nothing like 200 km,maybe 130 ,maybe,heating is rubbish in them aswell,ideal for around the town / city deliveries, on a rural roiute they dont work yet,range of course.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

Each family receives €2,400 back at the end of the year.

Household upgrades weren't meant to be tied into carbon tax refunds and should have been structured as being financially feasible for all, including those of lower income/lesser wealth.

OK so it only works as long as well off people don't lower their carbon footprint. I can see why Fine Gael support it.

liamog

liamog wrote: »

OK so it only works as long as well off people don't lower their carbon footprint. I can see why Fine Gael support it.

Research suggests that even with higher carbon taxes, wealthier people will spend more on an absolute level and that this type of carbon tax scheme will result in people on lower incomes being more well off than before any carbon tax scheme.



FG also are against this method of ringfencing and refunding carbon taxes, as are FF.



I literally linked an ESRI report that goes into great detail a few posts back.

liamog

Yes, I reviewed the report. It assumes with a €80 carbon tax, that we would see a 10% carbon reduction from households. It does not however go into detail on how that is achieved.

It is important to note here that the model is a partial equilibrium model, and
consequently it is not able to estimate changes in labour supply or in the supply of
commodities purchased by households as a result of carbon taxes. This will be the
focus of future research.

It is my hypothesis that the majority of the reductions will fall on the more well off, hence reducing their exposure to the carbon tax, and in fact having the net effect of zero redistribution of wealth

tom1ie

marcos_94 wrote: »

Completely agree that used electric cars arent cheap enough yet nor do they have the range to suit everyone's needs. In your case, they probably wont fit your criteria (sub 10k cost, 500km range minimum) until mid 2020s earliest, but a technology has to start somewhere. Think of how far ICE vehicles have advanced since their inception. battery technology is advancing at a rapid rate both in terms of cost and technology.

Never looked it up before but found article from the UK of the longest range EVs available to them:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/longest-range-electric-cars-ev/

Yeah but we are gambling that my criteria is met in less than 10 years.
I highly doubt it.

MAJJ

I wonder what this will do to classic cars which should be maintated as part of history and allowed to be driven and enjoyed. Small numbers overall I would imagine.

ianobrien

I was just thinking. I remember reading somewhere recently that the average age of the Irish Car is something between 8and 9 years old. So, assuming that this holds for the next few years, only just over half the vehicles on Irish roads in 2030, assuming that only EV are sold from now on. Given that only 3% are EV (according to a previous post), I think we will still have quite an amount of ICE vehicles on the road in 2030.

That being said, do we have the charging infrastructure planned for all this amount of EV? I imagine that quite a lot of charging stations will have to be installed. By 2030 a good proportion of spaces will have to have charging points in public and private areas. Does the ESB network have the capacity planned?

Before people say that I'm anti electric vehicles, yes I'm a bit of a petrol head but for the everyday car at home, a PHEV makes the most sense. If I had to change car in the morning, the likes of the Cupra Leon PHEV, Golf GTE or Octavia VRS iV would be what I'd go for. Hopefully the current bus keeps going for a bit longer though....

tabby aspreme

cnocbui wrote: »

What is obvious from that graph is that the Germans could have phased out lignite instead of nuclear and would have dramatically cut down on their CO2 emissions, but we need to remember the terrible death toll from Fukashima and 3 mile island.

Germany plans to phase out lignite burning by 2038, at the start of this year, there were plans to build a new coal burning power station in Germany, anyone know if that is still going to happen

kirving

hmmm wrote: »

I mightn't entirely like it, but good to get certainty and we can get on with putting the infrastructure in place now. It's also far enough away that the next government can suspend it if needed.

Therein lie the problem, there won't be any major infrastructural changes in 10 years time.

Keeping an equal number of cars on the road, albeit electric ones, still isn't very environmentally friendly relative to mass transit.

I can nigh on guarantee you that the ban on ICE cars will shortly be followed by an increase in VRT and a price increase on electricity "due to the damage battery production does to the environment", with still no alternatives from government.

Cabaal wrote: »

It is amusing seeing people blaming the greens for this, reality is this is happening sooner or later regardless of who is in power.

We hate to change our ways, but our ways will be changing.

As already pointed out, this isn't just cars this is house heating systems etc.

It's coming, no doubt about it, but I wish the government would actually think big, and think long term when it comes to green transport policy rather than just tinkering with VRT and duty rates for whatever fuel is flavour of the day.

We have a toxic diesel fleet in this country because of short term economic policy being marketed as "green" policy, and now the solution is to ban new ICE cars altogether?!

I have absolutely no trouble changing my ways, my last car took E85 whenever I could (on holiday in Europe only, even though just three years previously it was granted a €5k VRT rebate, how's that for short sighted?), my current car is a hybrid, and my next will very likely be fully electric, or at the very least a PHEV (my weekday commute and weekend cross country trips suit it perfectly).

I'm very open to change, but let's be honest, who wants to sit in traffic in their econobox for three hours per day commuting in an out of Dublin?

Genuine green policy would include doing everything possible to get us onto high speed, high capacity rail, and then it doesn't matter to the environment at all if we all have M3's for the weekend.