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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

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    #1142
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    This thread is hilarious, I've gone through so many bags of popcorn now.

    Did he deserve to die that really depends on his intention that night and really depends how it could have gone.
    He only had to comply, nothing else.


    this


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    #1143
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    i take it my point has been shot down, dont pardon the pun.


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    #1144
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    i take it my point has been shot down, dont pardon the pun.

    Unless it was something along the lines of “if you raise your voice at a cop they can fear for their life and kill you,” then it wasn’t well received


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    #1145
    DavidLyons_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭DavidLyons_


    Overheal wrote: »
    Unless it was something along the lines of “if you raise your voice at a cop they can fear for their life and kill you,” then it wasn’t well received

    Can you give us a source for any examples of police killing someone for raising their voice at them?


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    #1146
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,662 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    i take it my point has been shot down, dont pardon the pun.

    It was a loaded question to begin with


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    #1147
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    DavidLyons_ wrote: »
    Can you give us a source for any examples of police killing someone for raising their voice at them?

    Sorry I wasn’t aware the pro police-murder crowd had a monopoly on reducto ad absurdum
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We are about two pages away from ‘he should have just taken the bullets out of the gun and thrown it at him, knocking him unconscious.’


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    #1148
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Overheal wrote: »
    Unless it was something along the lines of “if you raise your voice at a cop they can fear for their life and kill you,” then it wasn’t well received

    coz any one with a opinion different than yours in invalid

    ooo what a world we live in ……..


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    #1149
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    coz any one with a opinion different than yours in invalid

    I guess so when it’s being ridiculed down to absurdum:
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We are about two pages away from ‘he should have just taken the bullets out of the gun and thrown it at him, knocking him unconscious.’


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    #1150
    DavidLyons_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭DavidLyons_


    Overheal wrote: »
    Sorry I wasn’t aware the pro police-murder crowd had a monopoly on reducto ad absurdum

    This thread is about how an armed, drunken, violent criminal (a man capable of torturing his own children) was shot by a policeman who was acting in self defence.

    You know that of course as I expect you’re on of, if not the most, frequent posters in the thread.

    Your bias is clear when you insinuate a police officer is capable of shooting a person dead for raising their voice at them.


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    #1151
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    One less violent child abusing cnut in the world.

    Or I mean...omg he was a wonderful gentle man with a heart of gold, a pillar of the community.

    Drink driving
    Resisting arrest
    Punching a cop
    Taking cops tazer
    Shooting tazer at cop

    The mental gymnastics some posters are using to defend this cnut are incredible.


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    #1152
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    DavidLyons_ wrote: »
    This thread is about how an armed, drunken, violent criminal (a man capable of torturing his own children) was shot by a policeman who was acting in self defence.

    You know that of course as I expect you’re on of, if not the most, frequent posters in the thread.

    Your bias is clear when you insinuate a police officer is capable of shooting a person dead for raising their voice at them.

    And the bias of others is clear when they mockingly suggest throwing bullets at perpetrators.
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We are about two pages away from ‘he should have just taken the bullets out of the gun and thrown it at him, knocking him unconscious.’

    My only bias is for a properly trained police force that doesn’t leap to deadly force where it wasn’t the Continuum


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    #1153
    DavidLyons_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭DavidLyons_


    Overheal wrote: »
    And the bias of others is clear when they mockingly suggest throwing bullets at perpetrators.



    My only bias is for a properly trained police force that doesn’t leap to deadly force where it wasn’t the Continuum
    Your bias is indeed clear and Brooks got exactly what you would expect an armed, drunken, violent criminal would get when they resist arrest and attack police officers.

    To paraphrase a poster above, one less child abusing scumbag in the world.

    How anyone can side with that piece of excrement in this scenario is totally baffling.


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    #1154
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    DavidLyons_ wrote: »
    I cannot get my head around how anybody can defend Brooks. He was a piece of sh1t who tortured his own children.

    He was shot because he resisted arrest for drink driving, assaulted two police officers and fired a taser at them.

    The cops rightly defended themselves against the violent, drunken criminal. They have the right to expect to get home to their own families at the end of each shift.

    How far gone are some people gone that they would defend this person in order to prove their wokeness (vomits).

    All of the celebrities and media jumping on the bandwagon are a fcuking disgrace.
    Welcome to America! :rolleyes:

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #1155
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Overheal wrote: »
    And the bias of others is clear when they mockingly suggest throwing bullets at perpetrators.



    My only bias is for a properly trained police force that doesn’t leap to deadly force where it wasn’t the Continuum

    Of course, as the video shows, they didn't LEAP to deadly force, rather went through multiple levels of escalation, until Brooks left them with no other option.

    The video you posted is ironic on multiple levels. For one, it shows the general lack of police marksmanship ability, in a thread where folks are calling for them to employ trick shooting to injure. Secondly, are you in favor of police emptying their magazines (not clips btw) in a profligate fashion?


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    #1156
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    JJayoo wrote: »
    One less violent child abusing cnut in the world.

    Or I mean...omg he was a wonderful gentle man with a heart of gold, a pillar of the community.

    Drink driving
    Resisting arrest
    Punching a cop
    Taking cops tazer
    Shooting tazer at cop

    The mental gymnastics some posters are using to defend this cnut are incredible.

    It’s not at all about defending who the perp is about a person but the right of all people to due process.

    If we don’t defend those basic rights for the worst of us they won’t be there for the best of us.


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    #1157
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Of course, as the video shows, they didn't LEAP to deadly force, rather went through multiple levels of escalation, until Brooks left them with no other option.

    The video you posted is ironic on multiple levels. For one, it shows the general lack of police marksmanship ability, in a thread where folks are calling for them to employ trick shooting to injure. Secondly, are you in favor of police emptying their magazines (not clips btw) in a profligate fashion?

    I’m saying they already unload dozens if not hundreds of rounds in some killings so having a fraction of the front of your clip be rubber is really not a detriment.


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    #1158
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,254 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    DavidLyons_ wrote: »
    Can you give us a source for any examples of police killing someone for raising their voice at them?

    Oh and now that I think of it I have seen this before as a matter of fact

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey


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    #1159
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    This campaign to remove trump from office by any means necessary is going to teach a generation of young black men that they should view the cops as the enemy, to non comply and resist arrest and it's gonna lead to more deaths.

    Like resisting arrest should be such an alien concept because how in God's name will it help your situation.


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    #1160
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    the polices officers lives were at risk, he was firing back at them not running away ,

    the victims past is very relevant here , the fact that he was on parole and would likely have to go back to jail if arrested may well have incited his choosing to try to fight the police


    Their lives were not at risk.

    It's funny, there's far more people in here claiming that the taser is a lethal weapon than I've seen in any of the US news reporting. The only angle the police officer has open to him is that he'll try to claim that Brooks would have turned around and taken his gun if he had successfully tasered him.

    So therefore, he feared for his life.
    That's a pretty big stretch given that there was a second police officer with him.

    Ironically, the police officer would be on better legal footing if Brooks didn't have a taser. That way if Brooks had say pointed a hand towards him, he could claim he had a gun. In this case the police officer knew he had a taser.


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    #1161
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m saying they already unload dozens if not hundreds of rounds in some killings so having a fraction of the front of your clip be rubber is really not a detriment.

    Gunfights can happen in milliseconds, if an officer is faced with that situation, the set up you're suggesting could be the difference between life and death for them.

    They have a less than lethal option, it's the tazer, which was used in this situation.


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    #1162
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,541 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    JJayoo wrote: »
    This campaign to remove trump from office by any means necessary is going to teach a generation of young black men that they should view the cops as the enemy, to non comply and resist uarrest and it's gonna lead to more deaths.

    Like resisting arrest should be such an alien concept because how in God's name will it help your situation.

    Young black men don’t need any additional education in that regard, they know from experience that cops are the enemy in the USA


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    #1163
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    JJayoo wrote: »
    This campaign to remove trump from office by any means necessary is going to teach a generation of young black men that they should view the cops as the enemy, to non comply and resist arrest and it's gonna lead to more deaths.

    Like resisting arrest should be such an alien concept because how in God's name will it help your situation.
    Meh, acceptable levels of casualties in the democrat's war to remove Trump at any cost. Vive la résistance!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #1164
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    vetinari wrote: »
    Their lives were not at risk.

    It's funny, there's far more people in here claiming that the taser is a lethal weapon than I've seen in any of the US news reporting. The only angle the police officer has open to him is that he'll try to claim that Brooks would have turned around and taken his gun if he had successfully tasered him.


    So therefore, he feared for his life.
    That's a pretty big stretch given that there was a second police officer with him.

    Easy for you to say after the fact, less so for the officers involved who are getting punched in the head and shot at. Any physical altercation with a suspect has to be viewed through the lens of them potentially grabbing their firearm. They were lucky in this incident that he didn't manage to.


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    #1165
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,541 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Easy for you to say after the fact, less so for the officers involved who are getting punched in the head and shot at. Any physical altercation with a suspect has to be viewed through the lens of them potentially grabbing their firearm. They were lucky in this incident that he didn't manage to.

    Yet they still shot him.


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    #1166
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    -> Knows well cops will probably shoot when threatened


    -> proceeds to aggressively resist a rightful arrest and steals a cops taser.


    You don’t need a preschool education to understand the consequences of an action like that.

    If he will steal a taser, I’d say he would steal a gun if presented with the opportunity. High risk.


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    #1167
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,541 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Yakult wrote: »
    -> Knows well cops will probably shoot when threatened


    -> proceeds to aggressively resist a rightful arrest and steals a cops taser.


    You don’t need a preschool education to understand the consequences of an action like that.

    If he will steal a taser, I’d say he would steal a gun if presented with the opportunity. High risk.


    The thing that’s important in that scentence is the word IF.
    Lethal force isn’t sanctioned in hypothetical what IF situations, it’s clear cut when it can be used. Imminent threat to life.


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    #1168
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    vetinari wrote: »
    Their lives were not at risk.

    What makes you think the cops lives were not at risk? Did you not see a cop with a bloody nose after the assault? Did you not see Brooks take a taser from the cops? Did you not see Brooks point that taser at the cops?

    Easy to claim that their lives weren't in danger from the safety of your couch/bedroom/desk. The cops were just after being assaulted and had to make a split-second decision. In their minds, they were in danger and I would agree.
    It's funny, there's far more people in here claiming that the taser is a lethal weapon than I've seen in any of the US news reporting. The only angle the police officer has open to him is that he'll try to claim that Brooks would have turned around and taken his gun if he had successfully tasered him.

    Nope. A taser is a deadly weapon. Tasers have killed people before. They are totally prohibited in Ireland - illegal.

    https://www.livescience.com/36418-tasers-kill-cardiac-arrest-stun-gun.html

    Leaving aside the potential fatality of a taser, how do you know that Brooks wouldn't have stunned the cop and taken his firearm? Are you saying that wasn't a possibility? How exactly would you know that then?

    And is shooting a cop with a taser not assaulting a police officer which leaves the police officer entitled to defend himself?

    So therefore, he feared for his life.
    That's a pretty big stretch given that there was a second police officer with him.

    Why wouldn't the cops fear for their lives? Brooks had overpowered the two police officers, half disarmed one of them and made off with his taser and then turned around to point the taser at one of the cops.
    Ironically, the police officer would be on better legal footing if Brooks didn't have a taser. That way if Brooks had say pointed a hand towards him, he could claim he had a gun. In this case the police officer knew he had a taser.

    Legal expert I see. :rolleyes:


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    #1169
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Lets see what the D.A. comes up with. It will probably go to the Grand Jury.


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    #1170
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    If there were to be any protests that's exactly the chance for normal decent people and cops to honour and stand behind them.


    Those officers were professional and imo too nice and gave him way too much time.

    They treated him with respect and were not beating on him the minute they seen him.

    I honestly hope the two officers are ok and will get through this sh1t show. They deserve a medal for protecting their community.

    This man could have killed numerous people driving under the influence and they arrested him and rightly so, they on no way went there with a plan to kill and he chose to attack them and get control of a police issued weapon.

    Did he deserve to die well it was part of the consequence from his own actions so really personal responsibility comes into this.

    I honestly still think there was more going on in the Floyd incident and yes it was totally wrong as there was no need to rest on him like that but if it were in the middle of a struggle you might understand but for that time to pass it wasn't on one bit and you would wonder what the hel the cop was thinking.

    I will ask though if he were white it wouldn't have caused and protests or looting or other killings.


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    #1171
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Why wouldn't the cops fear for their lives? Brooks had overpowered the two police officers, half disarmed one of them and made off with his taser and then turned around to point the taser at one of the cops.

    Who is he, Rambo?
    IF he had tased the cop and IF he had then turned to move towards the cop, the other cop would be justified in shooting him. It would be reasonable then to be worried about him grabbing the cop's gun. Neither of those things happened. Instead all you had was Brooks pointing a taser at the cop.


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