Show a little kindness

Empathy20

I decided to start a new account as I want to remain anonymous however I hope this post gets teachers and management to have a little self-reflection on how we treat others.

I know a good few staff feel quite dejected where I work. The sad thing it’s not because of the students. We got brand new management and with other changes taking place came a lot of new staff. A new unpleasant dynamic has crept in mainly fuelled by some new staff literally taking over and some colleagues would say fuelled by management keeping their heads in the sand. Now saying good morning does not always get a reply.

Some staff will decide if others are worthy of their company at a table at break or lunch and will move even if they already put something down, before, if you met a teacher on the corridor there was always acknowledgement - not so anymore, walking into the staffroom has become intimidating as obvious inclusion and exclusion going on with even leaving someone on their own at a table etc.

I have no tolerance for this behaviour, it takes nothing to include someone. We tell our students to respect each other and be inclusive but then this is not the case among some teachers. This poor behaviour has started to fan outwards a little and others I expected to know better have become a disappointment. The irony is even a particular colleague who has aspirations of becoming a Principal has been part of this at times and I wonder how they can be so oblivious.

We are all equal and deserve to be treated with respect. I have told my husband I want to leave and he fully supports me as he said since lockdown he has noticed I am a lot happier in myself and he thought it was because I was not in School seeing this behaviour.

Could we all please show a little kindness to each other, a lot of colleagues don’t want to be the centre of attention but they want to feel included and respected. Hope everyone has a good summer.

LilacNails

I think that's a great post you have written.

Unfortunately I see it more and more so many don't bother to acknowledge each other. It's sad. The exclusion thing goes on in my area of work, with women 20 to 30 years older than me. How depressing.

It would be a great idea if some how a copy of your post was out up on a notice board in the canteen or main staff room. You wouldn't have to sign your name. It might get people thinking and maybe wake them up a little.

RealJohn

Have to say that I’m sympathetic, OP. I felt the same as you from a while, due to a similar situation, and I was definitely less happy in my work, at the time. The issue was mainly down to management, or more specifically, a change in management, where the new principal (who had been the deputy) was far less interested in the well-being of the teachers, and more interested in keeping parents happy.

This coincided with several senior teachers leaving the school and a group of new, young teachers coming in, and becoming very ‘comfortable’ very quickly, to the point that a lot of the senior male staff particularly spent less and less time in the staff room (moving in to the caretaker’s room instead). A lot of the new staff show a pretty flagrant disregard for the school’s ethos in the staff room too, which the school hasn’t recovered from, yet. They also engaged in things like leaving their coats on the chairs they liked to sit on in the staff room (we do not have a staff room where people have their seats or their spaces), so it felt quite hostile.
And of course, if the principal was asked to say something about any of this, he either didn’t, or didn’t bother to check if the ‘suggestion’ was being followed.

Anyway, the principal has subsequently been promoted to a bigger school, so apparently the powers that be were happy with the way he was running things - I’ve no idea why, but they obviously didn’t ask any of the senior staff about him, or look at the leaving cert results - and things have at least become more optimistic since he left. I’m a lot happier in the school than I was anyway, although there’s more change in management due over the summer, so who knows how that will turn out.

The point of my post, aside from seconding the OP, is to let people who might not have experienced this know that it might not be their issue. I was questioning whether I even still wanted to be a teacher, and that hasn’t gone away entirely, but since that principal left, it hasn’t been something I’m asking myself several times a week. My parents and friends have also commented that I seem happier about work, so if it is getting you down a bit, it might pass on its own, like it did for me, or you might need a change of school yourself, but the chances are that others on staff feel the same.

vikings2012

Fascinating, I would never expect degree qualified professionals to act in such a childlike manner.

I am currently working in private sector. I work with a lot of young graduates in a professional setting and this child like or authoritarian behavior doesn’t seem to be evident nor would not be accepted. Yes, there are people we don’t like particularly but you always acknowledge them and work with them.

I wonder why young graduate teachers are acting like this ? Do they find it difficult to separate the classroom culture from the staffroom?

LilacNails

Theres a generation out there that are living on social media, controlling how they come across.....so much so they have either lost or not gained any social skills. Id guess alot of these young ones have social anxiety.

Icsics

We’ve undergone several changes in management in recent years. I have a serious issue with how interview panels work. They seem to be completely removed from very real local issues ie they haven’t a clue what’s going on in the school. People will appear great on paper but with a little insight (eg how long were they actually in the classroom) the real person will appear, but interview boards aren’t interested in this, they want to tick their forms, get their expenses / day out & ride on out of town.

RealJohn

LilacNails wrote: »

Theres a generation out there that are living on social media, controlling how they come across.....so much so they have either lost or not gained any social skills. Id guess alot of these young ones have social anxiety.

I’d agree with this. The younger teachers who took over the staff room in our place are very much the social media generation, who, I’m guessing, are emboldened by the fact that their social media interactions are very much an ‘echo chamber’, so they become immediately aggressive when their views on anything are challenged, and also pursue their ideas in the expectation that they’ll get nothing but support for them. The latter can be a strength, because it gives them the confidence to throw themselves fully into new initiatives without fear of rejection or criticism. The former though is more of an issue, as they only develop relationships with older teachers who actually agree with them, whereas the ones who disagree distance themselves from them, for a quiet life.

linguist

I think the key thing here is give and take. As teachers we devote our lives to bringing out the best in young people so resenting ambitious and talented young teachers coming in brimming with new ideas seems a manifest contradiction of that mission.

However, the problem is that some young teachers do come in believing that they are the saviours of their students and that level of sometimes misplaced self-confidence does characterise a lot of younger people today. In my own case, certain particularly cocky individuals quickly ended up annoying year heads and the deputy principal too and it was obvious to all - except them - that they wouldn't be back! By and large, I bit my tongue and let them dig a hole for themselves.

I think my advice to anyone coming into a school, particularly a non-permanent position, would be to remember that conversations about you will be had and not always with the people you think. You can spend your time sucking up to your subject coordinator or a couple of year heads but, as an unassuming member of the rank and file, and not much of a staffroom animal, I can assure you that quiet words are had when I pop into the office for something else entirely. Management wants to know how people are fitting in. And always remember that the office staff and caretaker have the principal's ear on everything!

ethical

Some very interesting posts here!
Same as any class really there are variations in all staff rooms.
BUT it does not take a lot to be civil to one another,after all we are supposed to be professionals.
There is a major problem with recruitment and unfortunately an awful number of managers are anything but! They are where they are because of sleeveenism.We can all recount tales of arse lickers who got the job and then made a total balls of it,fcuked up the school and staff were not listened to.When parents got involved suddenly they were listened to but it nearly was the death knell for some schools before they were rescued somewhat.
Some staff are totally selfish and do not care for anyone but themselves,always shouting out at staff meetings to get their own way as to when CP hours ,PT Meetings etc are to take place. No regard for anyone else.
Then there are the ones who NEVER contrubute to the staff Groupchat but are always first to read it! They only ever contribute when they want something.
The underfunding of the profession over the past 10 years has lessened the professionalism of the past and has turned teaching into a horrible lonely existence for many teachers.There are happier people working in Dunnes,Tesco and Supervalu not to mention the great career paths available to the staff lucky enough to work for Aldi and Lidl.
I'm all for giving back and have done ,by welcoming any new staff we get in ,be it for a day or for an extended substitution.I treat them as humans,chat to them, even go as far as to keep an eye out for any work that I might hear of becoming available.It costs me nothing,if anything I gain from it.
I 'm not saying I'm perfect,far from it,but I do like the idea of openess,fairness and transparency which has evaporated from the profession in recent times.
Speaking of giving back,I was astounded to hear over the weekend of a "retired" Principal who retired way back in 2006,yes 2006!!! and is still on the payroll of an education provider,note I did say on the payroll.This is absolutely shocking but it goes on.The person in question should be ashamed of themselves.I would be the first to credit this person if they did it for nothing,but for the joy of giving back....it is obviously very difficult to live on a gold plated pension these days!!

Empathy20

I know someone mentioned things might change however I doubt things are going to change anytime soon. Even though both in Management are new to us, we expect one to be going soon. It seems who they are potentially prepping for one job has unfortunately at times engaged in some of this new toxic behaviour which has offended a few established staff. Our management are working in a bubble, they think we are a happy commune but we are far from it. I think because we had a difficult Principal, they think being all smiles is the way to go and seem oblivious to what is going on. You could have a certain group of teachers who could have ignored someone who walked into the staffroom but then management walk in after them by a minute and its all chat, smiles and laughs between management and them. Someone mentioned young teachers who are talented and ambitious and some might resent that. I have no problem with talented teachers as students get to benefit and you might learn an idea or two from them. Students pick up on the enthusiasm off a teacher and embrace it in my opinion by and large. Young does not always equate talented straight away and normally it does take a little experience to gain a happy medium of success with students. It is like all jobs you get better with time. Also new staff does not always equate young so in my opinion no excuse for such toxic behaviour as you should know better. Young staff does not always equate lack of awareness either though as I have encountered some who have bucket loads of cop on and hit the road running both in and out of the classroom. It would be something positive or at least some consolation if some of the staff I mentioned in my original post were talented but in my opinion its not the case. They rub some students up the wrong way constantly but don’t care, disregard other opinions, can be very workshy, give several free classes, part of team teaching but don’t realise there is no i in Team, have been caught talking or should I say ripping the p out of students on corridors by other students this included a new teacher who has an important Pastoral Care role in the school, been caught talking about certain staff, none are on time for class, students have complained I know over certain incidents that have happened and students have started to turn on management as they feel no teacher accountability. Someone mentioned these teachers might not get back however this is not the case where I work. They are golden in managements eyes and once egos are being fed that’s the main thing. It is nauseating to see management fawning over certain individuals who can show contempt to some of their colleagues and some of their students. Literally it seems the quality of teaching is not even a priority anymore. For me what is best for the students should be number 1 priority. Anyway I just wanted to raise awareness how our actions can impact on others. I know the majority of teachers I have worked with have been very nice, respectful and have shown kindness. Unfortunately an unpleasant dynamic of exclusion and rudeness has crept in where I work. We don't have to be saints but showing a little kindness can go a long way. All teachers should be treated equally and shown respect.

Bobtheman

I think all you can do is do the right thing yourself. However there is no harm complaining when you feel it's crossed a line. The complaint does not have to be formal.
Decent teaching is no longer valued as it's all who is organizing the latest PR week.
Major issues like discipline are routinely ignored.

Icsics

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think all you can do is do the right thing yourself. However there is no harm complaining when you feel it's crossed a line. The complaint does not have to be formal.
Decent teaching is no longer valued as it's all who is organizing the latest PR week.
Major issues like discipline are routinely ignored.

This is so true. It’s all about the photo op, in fact if you are ‘just’ teaching it’s seen as a negative. Discipline is gone out the window..what did you say to ‘trigger’ him/her? Was your class interesting? I could write a book

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

Major issues like discipline are routinely ignored.

This reminds me of a staff meeting we had last year when a range of routine disciplinary issues were raised under AOB, an item we rarely get to because most meetings are overwhelmed by the constant updates from the same people on tbe school improvement plan or some such box ticker.

The Principal's jaw hit the floor. He seemed to have little idea what was happening on the ground. The morning after he was out and about patrolling lockers and conspicuously monitoring other things that were mentioned at the meeting. All lasted for about two days of course.

screamer

I’m not a teacher but I see the same behaviour in a large company where I work. It’s cultural partly and partly a lack of leadership where the really nasty staff who are good at their jobs are allowed treat others like rubbish. It’s especially bad for the interns who are dependent on said senior staff. It really disgusts me. I am a manager myself and I build my team to be good to each other and for the most part we are an insular bunch too, but that’s more to keep our own sanity.
In my local school I see that the teacher who was the biggest bully of a teacher I ever had the displeasure to be taught by, is now running the school. I can only imagine how bad it is for the staff with that asshole in charge.

Rosita

screamer wrote: »

In my local school I see that the teacher who was the biggest bully of a teacher I ever had the displeasure to be taught by, is now running the school. I can only imagine how bad it is for the staff with that asshole in charge.

Unfortunately it is often the same characteristics which drive the bullying behaviour also drives the "leadership" ambition. I know of a teacher in my school of whom I used to hear stories from students about punching presses in anger and is now Deputy Principal in another school. Can't imagine in his interview that he mentioned those explosions of anger as examples of when he "implemented change" or "showed leadership".

Bobtheman

Making a complaint - an informal complaint does no harm. It's a shot across the bow . Usually softens their cough. For directly outrageous behavior.
Look teachers are the same as any group of people. Will say the right things but often act quite differently.
Thus I find it nauseating to be lectured about various social issues from people who are as bias and prejudiced as your proverbial bar fly.

gaiscioch

Bobtheman wrote: »

Making a complaint - an informal complaint does no harm. It's a shot across the bow . Usually softens their cough.

I thoroughly agree with this. A huge part of the problem is that staff stay silent, year after year. We know the people who have an insidious presence on our staff. They are a poison, an established poison. Mark their cards because if you don't there's a good chance they will get promoted and have the power to make your life unpleasant. Let people in authority know. Write the incident down, date it, list any witnesses as soon as possible after the event. You may choose not to give that written report to the principal if it's a once off, but if it happens again, give accounts of both events. Let the victim know you witnessed it, too. And that there's a pattern/they aren't the only one.

If we can't be motivated by something as noble as kindness, could we all at least be motivated by being professional? It's absolutely refreshing, and professionally inspirational I must say, to deal with somebody on staff who abnegates any recourse to bitchiness, cliquishness and gossip and focuses on a "How do we sort this out" approach to each issue, giving information only on a need-to-know basis. If every staff member had this simple professionalism, our working environments would be ineffably healthier.

Bobtheman

I need to emphasis that you start informal. That's usually enough to sort it out. Leaves nobody with a note in their file.

Empathy20

Could I please remind teachers and management to show a little kindness during this school year.

I did meet up with some colleagues and it was good to talk. We all agreed most established staff are not valued by management and the staffroom could be quite uncomfortable at times depending who was there. It was interesting to hear their views and stories about the bad behaviour I mentioned in my first post.

We said returning to school we needed clarity surrounding several things including safety measures etc as students start returning the 27th but no consultations, no timetables, Aide went on holidays etc.

Anyway, I want to wish everyone all the best for the next school year.

padohaodha

A nice thread for once on Boards.Good to see that decency and common sense are not dead.

Treppen

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think all you can do is do the right thing yourself. However there is no harm complaining when you feel it's crossed a line. The complaint does not have to be formal.
Decent teaching is no longer valued as it's all who is organizing the latest PR week.
Major issues like discipline are routinely ignored.

So true, I came back from a few student events where I got lambasted for not getting "the photo for Twitter".
I watch other teachers in the good books now and see that it's all about getting the photo even in the must inane educational opportunities. It has its place alright, but it's just a pr job now.

Treppen

Empathy20 wrote: »

Could I please remind teachers and management to show a little kindness during this school year.

I did meet up with some colleagues and it was good to talk. We all agreed most established staff are not valued by management and the staffroom could be quite uncomfortable at times depending who was there. It was interesting to hear their views and stories about the bad behaviour I mentioned in my first post.

We said returning to school we needed clarity surrounding several things including safety measures etc as students start returning the 27th but no consultations, no timetables, Aide went on holidays etc.

Anyway, I want to wish everyone all the best for the next school year.

The days of consultation are out the window

Bobtheman

Treppen wrote: »

So true, I came back from a few student events where I got lambasted for not getting "the photo for Twitter".
I watch other teachers in the good books now and see that it's all about getting the photo even in the must inane educational opportunities. It has its place alright, but it's just a pr job now.

Lots of PR . Lots of therapy. Lots of inclusion.
The first is total bull**** and glosses over real issues in society. What's the point of a literacy week if kids don't read books outside of that? Or fundraising for charity when we are an unequal society? Is charity our answer ?
As to therapy everything is now blown out of proportion. Kids going from primary to secondary for hundreds of years now it suddenly requires study and therapy?
You can't ask a kid to stand up in a class without it being called ' humiliating' by the suffer the children brigade.
Inclusion is worthwhile once properly supported. All for it.

nyarlothothep

Reading about this absolutely makes me blood boil. Workplace bullying in any context is repulsive, infantile mammalian behaviour and needs to be challenged every step of the way, relentlessly. Just a question, can secondary school teachers take their lunch break outside of the school? Just wondering because when teaching I really needed that coffee shop hour to get away from coworkers, unwind and avoid cabin fever before going back in.

ethical

Isnt it well for you,an hour for lunch! Try 25 minutes and a couple of the A Posts( who are off the class before and after lunch),hogging the Microwave with their gigantic stews!!! No time to go for a pee never mind go outside the school gate!

r93kaey5p2izun

ethical wrote: »

Isnt it well for you,an hour for lunch! Try 25 minutes and a couple of the A Posts( who are off the class before and after lunch),hogging the Microwave with their gigantic stews!!! No time to go for a pee never mind go outside the school gate!

I've had an hour for lunch before, but only because no morning break at all. So 8.50-12.30 straight through. I think there's always some of those type who hog everything in every workplace! School staff facilities are often shockingly poor though.

nyarlothothep

Simeon Microscopic Nutshell wrote: »

I've had an hour for lunch before, but only because no morning break at all. So 8.50-12.30 straight through. I think there's always some of those type who hog everything in every workplace! School staff facilities are often shockingly poor though.

I see, so what you're saying is that in most schools there isn't an hour lunch break? Where I've worked, it would be common to have an hour or 1.15 hr break (the remaining 15 mins would be used to get ready) so something like 9-12.15, 1.15-4.30 or 5. I can't imagine having only a 25 minute break or even teaching 3.40 hr straight without a ten minute break in between, would crack from exhaustion/stress and teaching full time is stressful enough.

r93kaey5p2izun

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I see, so what you're saying is that in most schools there isn't an hour lunch break? Where I've worked, it would be common to have an hour or 1.15 hr break (the remaining 15 mins would be used to get ready) so something like 9-12.15, 1.15-4.30 or 5. I can't imagine having only a 25 minute break or even teaching 3.40 hr straight without a ten minute break in between, would crack from exhaustion/stress and teaching full time is stressful enough.

An hour is very rare, my school without the morning break is the only one I know of, but I'm sure there must be a few others. Most schools have 10-15 mins morning break and 40-45 mins lunch. Some shorter.

mirrorwall14

We used to be 55 minutes but now 40 we hen we standardised classes to 40 minutes

rainbowtrout

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I see, so what you're saying is that in most schools there isn't an hour lunch break? Where I've worked, it would be common to have an hour or 1.15 hr break (the remaining 15 mins would be used to get ready) so something like 9-12.15, 1.15-4.30 or 5. I can't imagine having only a 25 minute break or even teaching 3.40 hr straight without a ten minute break in between, would crack from exhaustion/stress and teaching full time is stressful enough.

40 minutes would be typical. If you teach the class directly before lunch there's always that one student who waits until the bell to start to pack up and they put each item into their pencil case one at a time, and then each book into their bag one at a time, and then they stop to ask 50 questions and a good five minutes are gone before you get them out of the classroom... leg it to the staffroom, it's easier to bring a sandwich because there's a queue for the microwave.

Going out for lunch largely depends on where you work. If you work rurally you might not be near a shop let alone a coffee shop/restaurant where you can sit down. If you are in a town and close to amenities it largely depends on how fast they can get your lunch out to you so you can get back to school on time.

Empathy20

I know its going to be a hard enough year for everyone but lets remember a little kindness goes a long way. I know the majority of teachers don't need this advice but for a very small number - before you act in a certain way, think how you'd feel if someone acted that way towards you. Ironically there can be a lack empathy among some teachers, a quality needed for the job.

I don't think students value the same teachers that are valued by management in my school. I heard last week of an established colleague who has started to think about leaving teaching altogether. I am shocked as they are a very good teacher and highly respected by students. They are very black or white so if they decide to go, they will go. I wish management would wake up or decent teachers will leave. Maybe they just don't care.

Best of luck everyone, stay safe and hopefully all our families and friends come out the other side of Covid.

emilymemily

Unfortunately its not just the younger teachers, there are older teachers and SNA's who make life at work an absolute misery.
The last school I taught in, the principal ran the school like a business, all he cared about was impressing the parents and BOM. I started in that school delighted to be given the opportunity and looking forward to building my cv and experience, I left with my confidence and self esteem in tatters.
One thing it taught me is that no job is worth that stress and if I ever feel in that position again and not supported by management I will walk out the door and leave them high and dry.