School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

shesty

This would be my argument, I was on to our pre- school yesterday and they are opening end of August (they are a big preschool too, with several classrooms), with after school care included.They are not a creche.But they are basically going to put in every precaution possible, the staff will do loads of cleaning between pre-school and afterschool sessions, and open the doors, and just see how it works.I also have a friend lecturing in a college and they have been meeting since April to sort out how to manage a return with distancing, a return with partial online teaching and a return with full online teaching.

The Department have been a complete disgrace in all of this as regards schools.

Icyseanfitz

so theres still no plan in place for getting students, teachers, SNAs and other school staff back into school safely. I work as an SNA within a large rural post-primary school (600+ students this year with incoming first years), corridors are narrow and rooms are tiny. I want to get back to work and check up on my kids, as i am sure this whole covid-19 episode has done immeasurable damage to a few, but what is the damn plan? even if they want to train staff "correctly" in preventative measures etc. they are really leaving it until the last minute.

spurious

Reopened thread

PLEASE report trolls rather than responding to them.

Plenty of space elsewhere for the teacher bashers and uninformed to go.

Personally speaking, I'm operating a zero tolerance approach to them here.

khalessi

Can I ask what you think of the recent study from Korea? Do you think it could affect reopening?

It that showed children 0-9 had minimal transmission of Covid19 but 10+ they had similar transmission rates as adults, thought to be due to their height and lung capacity,

They looked at 60,000+ adults and children.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html

shesty

Reading both of those, it seems somewhat inconclusive.Do they not just back up what is already suspected?Smaller children appear to transmit it less, older do transmit (or was it just me that thought that?).I think the key point of that NY Times is the Doctor stating that just because they are small, doesn't mean the risk is gone -it is still there, but you build it into the plans.

I think it will heighten the need to have very robust plans for secondary schools anyway.I don't see anything wrong with secondary school students wearing masks, or potentially partial online learning, as those things are both more viable in a secondary school environment.It doesn't take away the need to protect the teacher in a room. What I think would be a big mistake is to adopt an attitude of not even attempting to put in proper measures and reopen schools somehow, and we all just sit on our hands indefinitely.That would reflect very badly on us and highlight even more the unwillingness to properly fund education.

wirelessdude01

shesty wrote: »

I think it will heighten the need to have very robust plans for secondary schools anyway.I don't see anything wrong with secondary school students wearing masks, or potentially partial online learning, as those things are both more viable in a secondary school environment.It doesn't take away the need to protect the teacher in a room. What I think would be a big mistake is to adopt an attitude of not even attempting to put in proper measures and reopen schools somehow, and we all just sit on our hands indefinitely.That would reflect very badly on us and highlight even more the unwillingness to properly fund education.

This is my fear as well. Staff just thrown in and expected to just get on with it. We've seen a fair few posters on here with that sort of attitude. The 'don the green jersey' type rubbish. Proper structures, procedures and strategies.need.to be put in place based on departmental guidance.

shesty

But as parent, I suspect that is what will happen.We will wait and wait to hear something on schools and sometime around August 25th it will basically be yeah here back in the classrooms, more handwashing, parents don't come in the gates, and off we will all go.

It is made all the more inexcusable on the Department's part (to me) because it is not like they are being asked to reinvent the wheel.They are simply being asked to implement procedures and provide equipment that by now, is quite widely available.

Edit to say: or at the very least the Dept should come out and say what we "published" a few weeks ago is all the guidance you are going to get, now go sort yourselves out (but unless they at least provide an accompanying budget, that is not reasonable).

SligoBrewer

tick tock. another day gone.

km79

SligoBrewer wrote: »

tick tock. another day gone.

Friday 31st July
5.59 pm
Check Emma O Kelly’s twitter feed

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

Friday 31st July
5.59 pm
Check Emma O Kelly’s twitter feed

And a Bank Holiday weekend as well. The favourite time.

Rosita

shesty wrote: »

It is made all the more inexcusable on the Department's part (to me) because it is not like they are being asked to reinvent the wheel.They are simply being asked to implement procedures and provide equipment that by now, is quite widely available.

.

It's a little more complex than that I think. They also have to deal with the reality of preaching social distancing in other environments (as things stand, for example, Croke Park is not deemed capable of holding in excess of 200 people) while having to plan to accommodate hundreds of school goers in environments far less conducive to natural social distancing than any sports ground.

And having to plan to do this at a time when figures will be far higher than when the schools initially closed and probably with an increasing daily figure. In many respects handwashing and sanitising is the easy part. It's reconciling school arrangements with the contradictory advise being given in all other sectors that's the biggest issue.

rainbowtrout

What will probably happen is we'll be told to get on with it, wear a mask and they will close down schools on a case by case basis if there's an outbreak, a little like happened the Dublin school and the Clare school back in March when this all kicked off.

emmaro

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What will probably happen is we'll be told to get on with it, wear a mask and they will close down schools on a case by case basis if there's an outbreak, a little like happened the Dublin school and the Clare school back in March when this all kicked off.

I think this will happen too.

Definitely no protection for us. Every other worker has PPE, behind screens etc. but no one cares about teachers, so why bother investing money in protecting us.
I am secondary and move around a lot during my classes, but would gladly stay behind a protective screen near the whiteboard rather than online classes again.

I'd say some deranged posters here will be telling the teachers who will become gravely ill with covid to get off the ventilator and teach the poor children. Sure haven't we enough holidays to be a ventilator then instead :rolleyes:

teachinggal123

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What will probably happen is we'll be told to get on with it, wear a mask and they will close down schools on a case by case basis if there's an outbreak, a little like happened the Dublin school and the Clare school back in March when this all kicked off.

Yup, exactly this.

teachinggal123

Does anyone think that further and adult education centres - VTOS, plc, etc - might close this year to give their space to secondary schools for social distancing etc? The adult education tutors would be temp redeployed to help us out (assuming they are appropriately qualified).

I heard a little bird (who is in the know) suggest this over the weekend.

History Queen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Does anyone think that further and adult education centres - VTOS, plc, etc - might close this year to give their space to secondary schools for social distancing etc? The adult education tutors would be temp redeployed to help us out (assuming they are appropriately qualified).

I heard a little bird (who is in the know) suggest this over the weekend.

I wouldn't think so, seems very unfair to those learners and some of them can be from disadvantaged backgrounds, very unfair to impact what is often a second chance at education. That being said nothing would surprise me and I'm certainly not in the know.

emmaro

History Queen wrote: »

I wouldn't think so, seems very unfair to those learners and some of them can be from disadvantaged backgrounds, very unfair to impact what is often a second chance at education. That being said nothing would surprise me and I'm certainly not in the know.

I agree. It could be seen as saying they are valued less than second-level students.

deiseindublin

How is that fair to the FE students? We can't just park them because this year isn't convenient.

We could say the same for third level Uni, just cancel all courses and throw them into second level. How or why is FE any different?

Treppen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Does anyone think that further and adult education centres - VTOS, plc, etc - might close this year to give their space to secondary schools for social distancing etc? The adult education tutors would be temp redeployed to help us out (assuming they are appropriately qualified).

I heard a little bird (who is in the know) suggest this over the weekend.

Send Simon Harris a tweet.

wirelessdude01

emmaro wrote: »

I think this will happen too.

Definitely no protection for us. Every other worker has PPE, behind screens etc. but no one cares about teachers, so why bother investing money in protecting us.
I am secondary and move around a lot during my classes, but would gladly stay behind a protective screen near the whiteboard rather than online classes again.

I'd say some deranged posters here will be telling the teachers who will become gravely ill with covid to get off the ventilator and teach the poor children. Sure haven't we enough holidays to be a ventilator then instead :rolleyes:

These people will be the same ones giving out stink when their kids have to stay at home due to a teacher getting sick or a cluster in their kids pod/bubble/class due to the lack of PPE.

wirelessdude01

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Does anyone think that further and adult education centres - VTOS, plc, etc - might close this year to give their space to secondary schools for social distancing etc? The adult education tutors would be temp redeployed to help us out (assuming they are appropriately qualified).

I heard a little bird (who is in the know) suggest this over the weekend.

I've heard similar but different. Buildings that are shared will no longer be available for FE use. That's the version that I heard. Many schools make ends meet through the income from these night classes.

deiseindublin

I hope to God TUI fight that, would be so unfair.

wirelessdude01

deiseindublin wrote: »

I hope to God TUI fight that, would be so unfair.

Cleaning could be the be issue for this. It might come down to a choice in some schools whether this can be done safely.

r93kaey5p2izun

deiseindublin wrote: »

I hope to god TUI fight that, would be so unfair.

Yes it would be unfair on FE students to just be cancelled. But perhaps for shared centres it would be sensible to source separate accommodation for FE. Stand alone FE colleges should not be affected. That would be ridiculous.

There is going to be a much more significant risk in a mixed FE and post primary centre than in a straight pp school. If they are to continue together, how do you see that being safely managed? Will it be compulsory masks for the FE students? Compulsory distancing for them? Based on my experience of a mixed centre I don't see how it could be practically managed to a satisfactory level. The extra 300 adults would be raising the risk no question.

We can talk about the unfairness of saying pp is more important than FE, but in a crisis situation, the education of the pp students is legally more important. And where FE is based on a pp school, I don't see how there could be grounds for pp not being prioritised.

Also, as I posted here before, I live in a community with a pp and FE college operating together. Parents fully expect FE will make way for pp. Some of them are students of the FE college. As they say themselves, they can't attend a course if their children are at home due to lack of space or because of an outbreak anyway.

r93kaey5p2izun

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I've heard similar but different. Buildings that are shared will no longer be available for FE use. That's the version that I heard. Many schools make ends meet through the income from these night classes.

Just to note we're not even talking about night classes here. We're talking about FE classes happening during the day alongside the post primary classes. Often using the same classrooms and teachers. Walking down the corridors together with the pp students.

wirelessdude01

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

Just to note we're not even talking about night classes here. We're talking about FE classes happening during the day alongside the post primary classes. Often using the same classrooms and teachers. Walking down the corridors together with the pp students.

I know, just throwing night classes into the mix as well as alot of PP school buildings are used.

teachinggal123

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I've heard similar but different. Buildings that are shared will no longer be available for FE use. That's the version that I heard. Many schools make ends meet through the income from these night classes.

Yup, that’s what I’d heard.

r93kaey5p2izun

Where did you hear these things?

As someone officially still officially employed in a mixed FE/pp school (but I have only taught one evening a week last year so not in during the day), and also very involved in my TUI branch which has been seeking feedback on reopening, I haven't heard a whisper about it. In fact I've heard absolutely zilch about the particulars of a mixed centre from anyone; teacher, manager or union.

deiseindublin

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Cleaning could be the be issue for this. It might come down to a choice in some schools whether this can be done safely.

But cleaning an FE room wouldn't be any different to cleaning it after a group of first years. Evidence now seems to say that 10+ is the same risk as an adult.

teachinggal123

deiseindublin wrote: »

But cleaning an FE room wouldn't be any different to cleaning it after a group of first years. Evidence now seems to say that 10+ is the same risk as an adult.

Where buildings are shared it’ll give more space and rooms. Also more (redeployed FE) teachers.

I heard it from an AEO.