History Grad - Where to work?

newbie18892

Hi all, I thought maybe this would be a good place to come for advice. Apologies if i'm posting in the wrong place.

I'm a recent graduate of an MA in Modern Irish History History is also my primary degree. My work interests are the museum sector, public engagement (like working on public history projects/workshops), or in academia.

I have been applying for opportunities but i'm finding it impossible to get my foot in the door somewhere. I've been looking since December. I'm getting really disheartened lately and wondering if I'll end up anywhere I'd like at all. I'm finding a lot of career advice online if geared towards business studies and the like. Also, a lot of the museum sector seems to run of volunteer positions on the CE scheme. I wouldn't mind getting a volunteer position to start with or have on the side of another job but I need income too. I'm not eligible for the CE scheme anyway.

I had some interviews at the start of this year but all of those vacancies have dried up given the current situation with the COVID restrictions.Does anyone here have any experience and could offer me some advice?

gandalf

If you are willing to go outside your area of expertise a lot of technical sales organisation are looking at Arts graduates and postgraduates as they tend to have higher "soft" communication skills compared to technical graduates and they can be taught enough of the technical aspects to sell solutions.

At least it will give you another tranche of opportunities especially if the ones in your chosen area is drying up.

o1s1n

Have you thought of working in a university at all? The likes of UCD have hundreds of roles you probably haven't even thought of. Worth keeping an eye on their recruitment pages.

caviardreams

You could look at archivist jobs? That would require another qualification though.
The civil service would be another good route or other public service areas, but recruitment is probably not looking good on that front

Vetch

These are two current opportunities:

https://irishmuseums.org/careers-vacancies/exhibition-research-assistant-emo-court-co-laois-tender
https://www.nli.ie/en/udlist/current-opportunities.aspx?article=b42a41a5-ffc9-48d9-a616-da9f8e78c556

You're in a competitive market and public money probably won't be all that flush for research type projects in the near future. I'd suggest talking to experienced people in the sector and asking about what types of training would give you an edge e.g. exhibition design; digital collections. It might also be worthwhile sending around some CVs and asking people to keep you in mind.

Mrs OBumble

Have you been working your network, to find out about unadvertised opportunities, and to get a good word put in when vacancies come up?

TBH, unless you have inside support for getting these kinds of roles, you may as well focus on developing retail skills in the hope of one day managing a museum gift-store or similar

Divisadero

Very encouraging! Can't say I'm surprised.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Could you try to secure a PhD place and work as a volunteer in a museum at weekends? PhDs that start in October are taking applications around now

Teaching?

AlphabetCards

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

Could you try to secure a PhD place and work as a volunteer in a museum at weekends? PhDs that start in October are taking applications around now

That is only putting-off the hard decision.

newbie18892

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

Could you try to secure a PhD place and work as a volunteer in a museum at weekends? PhDs that start in October are taking applications around now

That would be a good idea except it seems like most funding deadlines have passed for this upcoming year. It is something I would love to do though

newbie18892

AlphabetCards wrote: »

That is only putting-off the hard decision.

What is the hard decision?

newbie18892

Vetch wrote: »

These are two current opportunities:

https://irishmuseums.org/careers-vacancies/exhibition-research-assistant-emo-court-co-laois-tender
https://www.nli.ie/en/udlist/current-opportunities.aspx?article=b42a41a5-ffc9-48d9-a616-da9f8e78c556

You're in a competitive market and public money probably won't be all that flush for research type projects in the near future. I'd suggest talking to experienced people in the sector and asking about what types of training would give you an edge e.g. exhibition design; digital collections. It might also be worthwhile sending around some CVs and asking people to keep you in mind.

Thank you. I have applied to both of those. I am seeing some jobs pop up again as the restrictions ease. Your advice about asking people in the sector for advice is a good idea, especially in terms of training for extra skills.

relax carry on

OP I had a similar experience a few decades ago. Only one of my MA in History year actually ended up doing anything related to History. The bulk of us went on to be teachers or Civil Servants. I don't regret doing the MA and I have utilised the skills learned during the MA in my career. I was only ever a mediocre student and don't think I would have cut it in academia.

Some of the consulting firms take grads of any discipline into their grad programs (or at least used to), e.g. Accenture.

Elliot White Servitude

Elliot White Servitude wrote: »

Some of the consulting firms take grads of any discipline into their grad programs (or at least used to), e.g. Accenture.

You'll find a err .. different .. pace of life between one of those firms and a BA/MA

Smegging hell

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

Could you try to secure a PhD place and work as a volunteer in a museum at weekends? PhDs that start in October are taking applications around now

I would advise against doing so unless the OP can a) get funding from a funding body sufficient to support them and b) is realistic that the academic job market is abysmal and that many PhD graduates won't secure employment in academia upon graduating, but will move into areas such as the civil service which don't require a PhD.

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

You'll find a err .. different .. pace of life between one of those firms and a BA/MA

I know that but he's asking where to work, that is just an option.

Beckett99

I did a history degree and masters and applied left right and centre for any museum, library assistant or arts-type job. Spent hours upon hours searching and applying and getting nowhere. Eventually I got a National Library studentship but, as it required doing another masters, I didn't continue down that road. Also didn't want to do a Phd. Since then I've worked in and applied for every civil service competition going and only regret that I didn't follow this course sooner and kept history as a hobby. Hardly any of my class in both UG and PG actually got work in history. Some did primary/secondary teaching and another person did a Phd but is now in another field entirely.

beauf

I think if you wanted to work in your area you might to look worldwide not just Ireland.

Sunny Disposition

Might seem strange but I always loved having history students working for me in construction! Nothing they learned in college helped on site of course, but they always seemed to be intelligent, hard working and could deal with people. Few of them ended up working in the office side of things for me after college, very good workers to a man.

GalwayGrrrrrl

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

Could you try to secure a PhD place and work as a volunteer in a museum at weekends? PhDs that start in October are taking applications around now

If you can live at home this is possibly a good option, won't be living the high life but very fulfilling if it suits.

Roast_Spuds

Been here too.

BA and MA. Spent years trying to get into a career afterwards.

My advice would be try and get into the civil service or such initially and keep trying for your ideal situation from there.
If you get in, don't be swayed by the job for life nonsense -use it as a base and go from there.

newbie18892

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think I will try to get into something in the civil service and work from there to try to progress to something I really enjoy. Volunteering at a museum on the side would pacify me in the time being. I looked at the public jobs website and got a bit confused as to what level position I should apply to as a graduate? Clerical Officer? Would appreciate advice.

I looked at phd opportunities as I do live at home so would be able to manage financially, but the funding deadlines have passed for Sep 2020 entry. It will be something I will keep an eye on though.

Is this really what people think of the civil service or how the civil service should be staffed?

Should our civil service not be staffed with people from Engineering, IT, Finance, Economics backgrounds, rather than as the fallback for BAs who have little other options?

At least non BAs have a background in something more tangible to the current world, not from years past.

OP, there are Springboard courses you can do to switch to another field which may help improve the selection of jobs for you.

Macytoby

newbie18892 wrote: »

Hi all, I thought maybe this would be a good place to come for advice. Apologies if i'm posting in the wrong place.

I'm a recent graduate of an MA in Modern Irish History History is also my primary degree. My work interests are the museum sector, public engagement (like working on public history projects/workshops), or in academia.

I have been applying for opportunities but i'm finding it impossible to get my foot in the door somewhere. I've been looking since December. I'm getting really disheartened lately and wondering if I'll end up anywhere I'd like at all. I'm finding a lot of career advice online if geared towards business studies and the like. Also, a lot of the museum sector seems to run of volunteer positions on the CE scheme. I wouldn't mind getting a volunteer position to start with or have on the side of another job but I need income too. I'm not eligible for the CE scheme anyway.

I had some interviews at the start of this year but all of those vacancies have dried up given the current situation with the COVID restrictions.Does anyone here have any experience and could offer me some advice?

McDonalds

newbie18892

salonfire wrote: »

Is this really what people think of the civil service or how the civil service should be staffed?

Should our civil service not be staffed with people from Engineering, IT, Finance, Economics backgrounds, rather than as the fallback for BAs who have little other options?

At least non BAs have a background in something more tangible to the current world, not from years past.

OP, there are Springboard courses you can do to switch to another field which may help improve the selection of jobs for you.

I have a Masters degree too not just a BA. Springboard courses seem to be mostly diplomas but I will have a second look at it.

newbie18892

Macytoby wrote: »

McDonalds

Thanks for your very useful contribution. On an aside, McDonald's has consistently been voted one of the best places to work in Ireland in recent years so I would have thought it's time as easy fodder for jokes would have passed.

Smegging hell

salonfire wrote: »

Is this really what people think of the civil service or how the civil service should be staffed?

Should our civil service not be staffed with people from Engineering, IT, Finance, Economics backgrounds, rather than as the fallback for BAs who have little other options?

At least non BAs have a background in something more tangible to the current world, not from years past.

OP, there are Springboard courses you can do to switch to another field which may help improve the selection of jobs for you.

This is such a reductive view of the humanities.

beauf

salonfire wrote: »

Is this really what people think of the civil service or how the civil service should be staffed?

Should our civil service not be staffed with people from Engineering, IT, Finance, Economics backgrounds, rather than as the fallback for BAs who have little other options?

At least non BAs have a background in something more tangible to the current world, not from years past.

OP, there are Springboard courses you can do to switch to another field which may help improve the selection of jobs for you.

Increasingly it's staffed with people with specialist qualifications for example in public administration or finance. Though there will always be a lot of clerical and administrative work. Internal promotion to specialist areas will also be looking for specialist qualifications. Might not be as easy as people think it is to get in. When in might find there's a lot of competition for promotions.

Macytoby

newbie18892 wrote: »

Thanks for your very useful contribution. On an aside, McDonald's has consistently been voted one of the best places to work in Ireland in recent years so I would have thought it's time as easy fodder for jokes would have passed.

That’s why I suggested it. They offer management courses to new grads.

beauf

I think it's a missed opportunity not to consider things out of Ireland.

newbie18892

beauf wrote: »

I think it's a missed opportunity not to consider things out of Ireland.

I was looking at some opportunities in the UK but they all seemed to be complicated by Brexit. Do you have any experience with looking for jobs outside of Ireland in this sector? Would definitely consider it.

PCX

newbie18892 wrote: »

I looked at the public jobs website and got a bit confused as to what level position I should apply to as a graduate? Clerical Officer? Would appreciate advice.

Administrative Officer (AO) is the dedicated grade for graduate entry. I think there is normally a competition around September each year. This website should have some more relevant info.

You can set up job alerts on the publicjobs website.

Alternatively many people with degrees enter at Clerical Officer (CO) level and then progress on through promotion. Also there is nothing stopping you from applying for an AO position after you have started working as a CO. The majority of people employed as AOs were already working in the Civil or Public Service before they applied for the position (at least that was the case a few years ago when I was involved).

newbie18892

PCX wrote: »

Administrative Officer (AO) is the dedicated grade for graduate entry. I think there is normally a competition around September each year. This website should have some more relevant info.

You can set up job alerts on the publicjobs website.

Alternatively many people with degrees enter at Clerical Officer (CO) level and then progress on through promotion. Also there is nothing stopping you from applying for an AO position after you have started working as a CO. The majority of people employed as AOs were already working in the Civil or Public Service before they applied for the position (at least that was the case a few years ago when I was involved).

Thank you. That's very helpful.

beauf

newbie18892 wrote: »

I was looking at some opportunities in the UK but they all seemed to be complicated by Brexit. Do you have any experience with looking for jobs outside of Ireland in this sector? Would definitely consider it.

Not in that sector no. I have a more specific degree. But there was no work in it in Ireland when I graduated (long time ago) really should have emigrated at the time. I did some interviews in the UK but thought the money offered was too little to survive in London. In hindsight I gave up too easily.

glut22

https://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/BZY093/funded-phd-studentship-in-association-with-the-irish-research-councils-macmorris-project

Smegging hell

Smegging hell wrote: »

This is such a reductive view of the humanities.

Could a humanities graduate write a complex Excel macro to analyze data or generate report?

Or write a power shell script to transfer text files?

Someone with a technical background is more likely to identify manual, repeatable tasks and automate them within a clerical setting.

relax carry on

salonfire wrote: »

Could a humanities graduate write a complex Excel macro to analyze data or generate report?

Or write a power shell script to transfer text files?

Someone with a technical background is more likely to identify manual, repeatable tasks and automate them within a clerical setting.

You are aware that civil service provides multiple opportunities for continued professional development? Entering with a master's in history doesn't mean you'll sit there twiddling your thumbs for the next 40 years. You could literally end up doing anything. Those educational and work experiences can transform you into whatever you want to be within it if you have the curiosity and drive. That includes learning the skills you outlined above while also learning the operational/administrative side of the civil service which makes you far more valuable than someone from a purely technical background who may totally miss the need for particular feature/process and end up costing millions because they did not fully understand what they were trying to streamline.

And yes I've seen humanities graduates write complex excel macros.

relax carry on

OP. Sign up to public jobs alerts. Look for CO, EO or AO opportunities. I entered as an EO and progressed up the ladder. However I know many who came in as COs with several qualifications and progressed also. It depends on what department/organisation you are deployed to and the prospects for promotion within it or the likelihood of internal competitions across the civil service.

newbie18892

relax carry on wrote: »

OP. Sign up to public jobs alerts. Look for CO, EO or AO opportunities. I entered as an EO and progressed up the ladder. However I know many who came in as COs with several qualifications and progressed also. It depends on what department/organisation you are deployed to and the prospects for promotion within it or the likelihood of internal competitions across the civil service.

Will do that. Thanks. It sounds like a good direction.

Divisadero

salonfire wrote: »

Could a humanities graduate write a complex Excel macro to analyze data or generate report?

Or write a power shell script to transfer text files?

Someone with a technical background is more likely to identify manual, repeatable tasks and automate them within a clerical setting.

Another Boards Civil Service 'expert'. If only you knew what you were talking about and how varied the roles are from Department to Department and even from Section to Section within a Department. A History degree could well be a relevant qualification. No need to be so dismissive. All you are revealing is your limited knowledge of the actual situation on the ground.

OP if you decide to stay in Ireland and to apply for the Civil Service EO is another grade you might consider along with AO. It takes a long time to go through the hiring process so you could still pursue your dream career in the meantime.

relax carry on

relax carry on wrote: »

You are aware that civil service provides multiple opportunities for continued professional development? Entering with a master's in history doesn't mean you'll sit there twiddling your thumbs for the next 40 years. You could literally end up doing anything. Those educational and work experiences can transform you into whatever you want to be within it if you have the curiosity and drive. That includes learning the skills you outlined above while also learning the operational/administrative side of the civil service which makes you far more valuable than someone from a purely technical background who may totally miss the need for particular feature/process and end up costing millions because they did not fully understand what they were trying to streamline.

And yes I've seen humanities graduates write complex excel macros.

Thanks for proving my point.

The state spends how many years, maybe 18 or 19 years educating graduates, to be then used as the fall back to be further educate and develop.

Great for the Civil Service.

relax carry on

salonfire wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point.

The state spends how many years, maybe 18 or 19 years educating graduates, to be then used as the fall back to be further educate and develop.

Great for the Civil Service.

Not sure how you think anything I wrote proves whatever point you are trying to make.

Bannasidhe

salonfire wrote: »

Could a humanities graduate write a complex Excel macro to analyze data or generate report?

Or write a power shell script to transfer text files?

Someone with a technical background is more likely to identify manual, repeatable tasks and automate them within a clerical setting.

Could a software engineer research across multiple sources to get all the available information on a given topic - let's say popularity of heritage tourist sites with foreign visitors (could also be say : number of childcare providers, or decline in rural pubs or Number of sitka plantations etc etc) , then compile it into a written report that not only analyses and summarises that information, it also contains within it a reference to where every single piece of information was found and where to access it.
Because that is exactly what a history grad has been taught to do. There isn't a program for it - it's a very human skill set.

And if you think the ability to research, write, and present information in a factual and verifiable way isn't needed in the civil service I'm not sure you know what the civil service does.

GalwayGrrrrrl

newbie18892 wrote: »

I looked at phd opportunities as I do live at home so would be able to manage financially, but the funding deadlines have passed for Sep 2020 entry. It will be something I will keep an eye on though.

There are still funded places being advertised for sept 2020- stumbled across this today (not history but just as an example( https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/law/funding-opportunities/graduate-teaching-scholarship-law
Civil service looks like a good option also.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Could a software engineer research across multiple sources to get all the available information on a given topic - let's say popularity of heritage tourist sites with foreign visitors (could also be say : number of childcare providers, or decline in rural pubs or Number of sitka plantations etc etc) , then compile it into a written report that not only analyses and summarises that information, it also contains within it a reference to where every single piece of information was found and where to access it.
Because that is exactly what a history grad has been taught to do. There isn't a program for it - it's a very human skill set.

And if you think the ability to research, write, and present information in a factual and verifiable way isn't needed in the civil service I'm not sure you know what the civil service does.

Of course they could!!

Report writing is part of secondary school curriculum and all grads unterake a final year project or thesis.

The software engineer could even build a database to store the findings and even build an API to allow users view and update or to pass the information to other systems or users.

LimeFruitGum

OP, I suppose you will have to get a day job until something comes up. But to keep the hand in history sector, why not develop history as your side hustle? As a fellow humanities grad, I would say it will take a stepping stone or two to get the kind of job you want & you might have to create your own history job. It could mean creating a blog, a Twitter account for your speciality, giving grinds, getting involved with the nearest history society and writing articles for them. Make your own opportunity. Is there an official association you can join, while you still qualify for student rates? They might have mentoring programs. I would forget about academia for a while, tbh. Do take a look at Springboard for some practical professional courses that will improve your employability.

If you want to go into archiving, there is plenty of work in document management in pharma, finance & legal. It’s a valid skill set for future historical archiving roles, with extra digital experience attached.

Bannasidhe

salonfire wrote: »

Of course they could!!

Report writing is part of secondary school curriculum and all grads unterake a final year project or thesis.

The software engineer could even build a database to store the findings and even build an API to allow users view and update or to pass the information to other systems or users.

Comparing it to a secondary school report just shows how completely you fail to understand the level of complexity required or the training specific to the discipline of history.

The software engineer can build the storage is like saying a builder builds so no need for structural engineers or architects.
The software engineer cannot do the research, compile it, analyse it, summarise it - they can build software to store it.

Also given the input of historians into entertainment (from documentaries to providing knowledge for period dramas/films etc) the mind boggles at what we would have to watch if software engineers tried to take over that role.

Sure - software is important - but it isn't the be all and end all of everything. It it provides useful tools - ones that historians use alongside their ability to read what is written on paper and write with a pen- but the tool doesn't do the work, it helps the work get done.