'Reclaiming' a back garden - advice please!

Test For Echo

Hi,

I have no gardening knowledge whatsovever but I'm seeking advice on how to get a back garden, that never actually was a garden, into manageable shape. It's on a fairly steep slope (30° or so), pretty bumpy uneven ground and covered in moss. I'd be happy if I could get it to a state that it could be mowed. A neighbour strims his garden occasionally - takes ages and really doesn't look all that great afterwards.

My plan:

• Trees from the middle gone
• Strim
• Rake
• Rotavate
• Rake
• Grass Seeds

Not sure if I need to apply moss killer before doing anything. Nor am I sure if I need to put topsoil down before grass seeds. I don't know what I'm doing and I fear ending up with a still crap looking garden after lots of effort. I really would appreciate advice before I do anything at all. Thanks!

beggars_bush

Can you get a mini digger in there and dig all vegetation out?
what way does the photo face?

I'd go for 3 levels with a ramp or steps up one side, landscape the slope between each level
then move that oil tank over to one side and hide it behind screening.
put some sort of seating area or covered area up at the back, or behind that small wall on a paved/chipped area.
you could do a lovely water feature down that sort of a slope if you want to spend €€€€

Harry Palmr

Why do you want a crap unwieldy lawn when you could have a semi wild haven for pollinators?

Test For Echo

beggars_bush wrote: »

Can you get a mini digger in there and dig all vegetation out?

I'd have to get permission from landowner and access the garden from the rear. Too messy. I'd rather keep it simple

what way does the photo face?

I'm standing in the back yard at rear of house. That's pretty much the view from the kitchen window.

I'd go for 3 levels with a ramp or steps up one side, landscape the slope between each level
then move that oil tank over to one side and hide it behind screening.
put some sort of seating area or covered area up at the back, or behind that small wall on a paved/chipped area.
you could do a lovely water feature down that sort of a slope if you want to spend €€€€

I'd love to go nuts and have a great looking garden but there's other things needing doing (new doors, etc).

antix80

It looks nice as it is.
If you clear the trees the best you can hope for is a steep lawn.
Try to make it so it's nicer to look at than use because I'm not sure it would make a good garden given how steep it is.
Main priority is hide the oil tank. Leave the trees. Maybe some rocks and shrubs, heather, etc.

scarepanda

Test For Echo wrote: »

I'm standing in the back yard at rear of house. That's pretty much the view from the kitchen window.

What direction, north/south/east/west? What direction it's facing will have an impact in what you can/can't do with the garden.

Test For Echo

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why do you want a crap unwieldy lawn when you could have a semi wild haven for pollinators?

I only intend to go as far as the bushes at the top of the garden, not right to the end of the property. Nature can have that bit.

No matter what I do the trees have got to go. I hate the thought of cutting down them down but they're too close to the house and they're beginning to lean down towards the house as they grow.

It doesn't bother me but they also block the sun from the neighbouring houses on either side.

magicbastarder

as per a couple of the posts above - if you want a nice green lawn, it's possible, but you're making quite a rod for your own back in achieving that.
there are various options - terracing (lots of work in the short term) or else working with what you have and planting accordingly.

Test For Echo

scarepanda wrote: »

What direction, north/south/east/west? What direction it's facing will have an impact in what you can/can't do with the garden.

Sorry, wasn't sure what you meant The back garden is facing South.

Treppen

Levels might be a nice idea.

Do you have a budget for outside help or is it yourself and whatever time you have on your hands?

First thing I'd do though is move that oil tank to the side of the house or something. Or back yard and box it off. That'd do my head in if I was planning to do up a garden that I was going to spend the rest of my days in with a yolk plonked right in view. That's just me though.

Test For Echo

Do you have a budget for outside help or is it yourself and whatever time you have on your hands?

I could throw a grand or so at it if I had to (whatever that might get?) but if time & effort could get me a basic, albeit steep, garden that could be mowed I was going to do it myself.

First thing I'd do though is move that oil tank

I never even notice it :pac: but now that you guys have mentioned it... :mad:

Purgative

Just my 2 cents so feel free to ignore me.


If you succeed in making a lawn its going to be a pig to maintain.


If it were mine, I'd:


- Move or box in the oil tank
- Get rid of the trees and shrubs
- Strim it - a good strimmer (can be hired) will crop that nicely
- rake off the cuttings

- then maybe sow wild flowers: poppies, buttercups, clover
- it could look good

Treehelpplease

I agree with the above post but I would save the largest of the trees (the one that looks the furthest back from the house with the largest trunk). Maybe plant some hedges along the fence too for some more privacy. It's a very interest garden design, but as others have said, it's probably better to make it something nice to look at then use. Do you have any garden between the house and the lower wall, or front garden that you could use for seating, etc?

magicbastarder

if you were to make a lawn of it, could you use it? you won't be putting a picnic table on it or letting kids have a kickabout on it.

Test For Echo

magicbastarder wrote: »

if you were to make a lawn of it, could you use it? you won't be putting a picnic table on it or letting kids have a kickabout on it.

No plans to use it for anything - just tidying it for appearance sake only. No kids anyway.

Test For Echo

Treehelpplease wrote: »

It's a very interest garden design, but as others have said, it's probably better to make it something nice to look at then use. Do you have any garden between the house and the lower wall, or front garden that you could use for seating, etc?

Between the lower wall and house was green but was dug out & concreted - there's a steel shed to the left just out of shot.

Small garden at the front of the house. I've no plans to ever use the overgrown garden at the back - just looking to tidy it up.

looksee

If it is south facing there should not be any moss - unless the shadow of the house completely shades it. I agree about moving the oil tank, and I would remove the biggest tree, leaving what seems to be one or two smaller ones. Strim it down, do a moss killer if necessary, then sow some wild flower seeds - this rather unlikely looking set up will sort you for best types for your area http://www.wildflowers.ie/

Maybe put in a few natural looking shrubs to break it up and add interest, it would be helpful to know what the quality of the soil is, I suspect it is not great - which would actually be an advantage for wild flowers, and there are some shrubs - like broom - that are happy on poor soil.

I could see a path/terrace following the curve of the land - a curve towards the left round the higher slope on the right, but if you just want it to look tidy and a bit more appealing, I agree with the others, use it as a pollinator area and grow wild flowers. Just strim once in the year in the autumn.

kylith

Depends what you want to do with it really. Do you intend to just leave it? In that case you could well end up in the same situation in a year's time. How much work are you willing to put into it in the long term?

If it were me I'd probably look at thinning out the trees and leveling a patch under them to put a bistro set, then throwing in a load of low maintenance shrubs and perennials for aesthetics and pollinators.

DK man

It doesn't look that bad to me - apart from oil tank.

A large strimmer would go through that quick enough.

If you want a nice level lawn you will probably need to spray off the grass @ 3 weeks to kill it off (Round up). And then you will need some sort of machinery to level it.
Ideally you'd need a mini digger and someone who is used to operating it. You can get a very small one which can get in narrow walkways. Alternatively a powerful rotavator would rip up the ground and you'd have to rake it level and remover large stones or whatever treasures you find.

I used to do some landscaping about 10 years ago. A job like that would range from 1500 upwards imo.

Test For Echo

looksee wrote: »

If it is south facing there should not be any moss - unless the shadow of the house completely shades it.

The rear of the house gets plenty of sunlight. Might it be the shade from the trees in the garden that are causing the moss?

Test For Echo

kylith wrote: »

Depends what you want to do with it really. Do you intend to just leave it? In that case you could well end up in the same situation in a year's time. How much work are you willing to put into it in the long term?

I just wanted a lawn that could be mowed regularly just like a normal lawn - albeit a bloody steep one!

The guy next door strims & rakes his garden a couple of times a year. It takes ages and, yeah, in time it just ends up back at square one.

GreeBo

Test For Echo wrote: »

I just wanted a lawn that could be mowed regularly just like a normal lawn - albeit a bloody steep one!

The guy next door strims & rakes his garden a couple of times a year. It takes ages and, yeah, in time it just ends up back at square one.

He is back to square one because he only does it a couple of times a year.
any lawn will end up the same way if you cut it a couple of times a year.


If it was me I'd:

Strim all the grass.
Remove the bushes but keep the largest tree
Tidy up the tree, remove some of the lower branches so that its a tree and not a big bush. IMO most trees look better when they have a raised canopy, visible trunk and defined upper canopy. This isnt that hard to do, its really just cutting off the lower limbs until you are happy with what you have. If you don't like it you can always just drop the whole tree (I'd probably just keep the main trunk the the side limb that heads towards the back of the garden, but you can see how it goes)

Dont worry about removing moss for now, but when you strim *you need to remove all that debris*

In autumn, overseed with a slow growing grass variety, designed for these scnearios.

Then, to maintain it, use a flymo type mower from the top of the garden.
Use a rope to lower it down the lawn and pull it back up. Do this at least weekly and you will have a garden that is not an eyesore.
South facing means that with the trees cleared up and the grass cut, you wont have any moss or drainage issues.

/edit
Oh and move the oil tank!!!

aw

kylith wrote: »

Depends what you want to do with it really. Do you intend to just leave it? In that case you could well end up in the same situation in a year's time. How much work are you willing to put into it in the long term?

If it were me I'd probably look at thinning out the trees and leveling a patch under them to put a bistro set, then throwing in a load of low maintenance shrubs and perennials for aesthetics and pollinators.

I'd agree with this.

- Move oil tank behind shed
- Open a small gate through that wall over to the right (no mention of other access point?)
- Keep the trees, thin out what's there. Great feature.
- Dig down and level 4 or 5 sq metres in front of or to the left of the trees (gravel or small brick patio)
- build a small retaining wall at the back of this patio
- Make a small curved path from gate up to new seating area
- Plant some bareroot hedging (hornbeam, hawthorn, holly etc) all along the boundary fence
- Keep around the seating area maintained and let the rest go wild

Utilizing the space you have and keeping most of it aside for nature would mean you'd have an amazing garden with very minor effort, and small enough outlay.

Test For Echo

Thanks for all the replies.

The back garden will never, ever be used so putting any kind of seating area, etc in would be a waste as I'm the only one in the house and I'm not a sitting outside relaxing kind of person.

I just hate having a wild untended garden, less so in Summer when it's bursting with life, but in Winter I think it looks awful. I would prefer not to cut down the trees (I think they're lovely at the minute) but I was advised to get rid as they're close to the house.

Test For Echo

aw wrote: »

- Open a small gate through that wall over to the right (no mention of other access point?)

Only access to back garden is up & over the wall. House was originally for sale in '08 / '09 with an advertised patio area & landscaped garden which was never done.

beggars_bush

I dunno.
Having an outside area to sit, read or eat is a must in any garden.
Even if you don't use it
You might get a bbq and use it?
What so you do with visitors on a nice day?

I know a lad who owned a house and had a similar attitude as yourself to his garden. Never did anything with the garden except mow it, and irregularly.
My other half always commented in how poorly he keeps his garden.
He's still single

Test For Echo

beggars_bush wrote: »

I dunno.
Having an outside area to sit, read or eat is a must in any garden.
Even if you don't use it
You might get a bbq and use it?

Honestly, would never be used. I might as well put in a helipad.

beggars_bush wrote: »

I know a lad who owned a house and had a similar attitude as yourself to his garden. Never did anything with the garden except mow it, and irregularly.
My other half always commented in how poorly he keeps his garden.
He's still single

I have 2 lawnmowers & a strimmer to keep the green areas around the house in shape. And I'm happy single, even if it's not entirely by choice...

I had thought about getting a landscaper in when I got the house 2 years ago but everybody was too busy and it was near impossible to get anyone to do anything. Now that I've spent a fair bit on the house it's hard to justify spending more on landscaping.

macraignil

Not sure what is the problem with having some moss in a garden and quite like to have it in my own. The pictures look fine now but I can see your point that it is a bit less appealing in the winter.

I think it is too steep a slope to make into a lawn and to make the area into terraces with parts level and retaining walls would just be far too much work in my opinion particularly since you say your not much interested in doing much with the garden.

I like the suggestions to plant the area up with wild flowers but there is a chance that some less desirable more weedy looking plants will also get growing and if you are not willing to pick these out the area could continue to look less than neat which you say is your main aim with what you want to do to the garden.

Cutting down those trees will likely lead to them sprouting again from the stumps but I don't think this is a particularly bad thing as if they grow close together as they are at that distance from the house with multiple small shoots they are unlikely to become tall enough to be a problem for the house and could be a great nesting area for birds if you just want to leave it undisturbed. Cutting them down once will help them become multi-stemmed which will help limit the height and also help anything else you plant get established. You could just screen off your view of the entire area with a line of evergreen shrubs that you like the look of and could keep these trimmed to stay back behind the wall with a good branch loppers and clippers. What evergreen you go with would depend on your own taste but I'd consider holly, photinia red robin, pittosporum or cotoneaster or a mixture of evergreen shrubs to make it look a bit more interesting.

If it was my garden I'd be more likely to just get a trellis and get a climber or a shrub that can be trained up to provide a screen like pyracantha to hide the oil thank rather than hire a plumber to move it.
Happy gardening!

beggars_bush

Do you ever have friends over for beers?
If not, why not! No better place than outside on a fine afternoon with a south facing garden

Test For Echo

beggars_bush wrote: »

Do you ever have friends over for beers?
If not, why not!

I don't drink!

Test For Echo

macraignil wrote: »

Not sure what is the problem with having some moss in a garden and quite like to have it in my own. The pictures look fine now but I can see your point that it is a bit less appealing in the winter.

I think it is too steep a slope to make into a lawn and to make the area into terraces with parts level and retaining walls would just be far too much work in my opinion particularly since you say your not much interested in doing much with the garden.

I like the suggestions to plant the area up with wild flowers but there is a chance that some less desirable more weedy looking plants will also get growing and if you are not willing to pick these out the area could continue to look less than neat which you say is your main aim with what you want to do to the garden.

Cutting down those trees will likely lead to them sprouting again from the stumps but I don't think this is a particularly bad thing as if they grow close together as they are at that distance from the house with multiple small shoots they are unlikely to become tall enough to be a problem for the house and could be a great nesting area for birds if you just want to leave it undisturbed. Cutting them down once will help them become multi-stemmed which will help limit the height and also help anything else you plant get established. You could just screen off your view of the entire area with a line of evergreen shrubs that you like the look of and could keep these trimmed to stay back behind the wall with a good branch loppers and clippers. What evergreen you go with would depend on your own taste but I'd consider holly, photinia red robin, pittosporum or cotoneaster or a mixture of evergreen shrubs to make it look a bit more interesting.

If it was my garden I'd be more likely to just get a trellis and get a climber or a shrub that can be trained up to provide a screen like pyracantha to hide the oil thank rather than hire a plumber to move it.
Happy gardening!

The plan is to cut the trees down and dig out the roots. Yeah, I'm not a gardener so anything that requires maintenance (other than cutting grass) is probably not going to be for me at all. I wouldn't know a weed from a flower.

I've a house either side of me. One neighbour keeps a tidy space & garden, the other is building a new house elsewhere so, understandably, doesn't give much of a hoot about their space & garden. I do want to tidy my garden so it doesn't look neglected - it really looks dreadful in Winter.

I'm not moving or hiding the oil tank! It doesn't bother me at all :pac:

macraignil

Test For Echo wrote: »

I don't drink!

Test For Echo wrote: »

The plan is to cut the trees down and dig out the roots. :pac:

Probably need one after digging out those tree roots.
Good luck!

Test For Echo

macraignil wrote: »

Probably need one after digging out those tree roots.
Good luck!

Ignorance is bliss

the_syco

Consider three levels. Not totally flat levels, just three less steep levels, that you can mow once in a blue moon.

Prune & relocate the trees to the back level. Plant wild flowers around the trees, and a small fence to keep them in there.

Two levels remaining should be easy to keep tidy.

Test For Echo wrote: »

Between the lower wall and house was green but was dug out & concreted - there's a steel shed to the left just out of shot.

Move the oil tank behind the shed; it sticks out where it is. However, if it has to be there, look at growing an evergreen push in front of it to hide it.

Test For Echo wrote: »

Small garden at the front of the house. I've no plans to ever use the overgrown garden at the back - just looking to tidy it up.

I'm sorry, but once you start with the gardening, it'll take root, and you'll grow to like it :pac:

Test For Echo

the_syco wrote: »

I'm sorry, but once you start with the gardening, it'll take root, and you'll grow to like it :pac:

Please don't even say that!

I didn't expect so many replies and to get so much info from this thread so I'm going to take some time to digest it all over the weekend. So thank y'all!

I've purposely avoided mentioning this because I've already enough to be thinking about, but I've always wanted an apple tree. Could a couple of trees be grown in there or am I best to forget it?

Brego888

You've mentioned a few times about the trees being close to or hanging over the house.
It doesn't look that way from your photos.
Can you take one from a side angle showing the back of the house and trees?

the_syco

Test For Echo wrote: »

Sorry, wasn't sure what you meant The back garden is facing South.

Test For Echo wrote: »

Could a couple of trees be grown in there or am I best to forget it?

I'd say near the back of the plot would be best for an apple tree; I'd say it'd get the most light back there. Also, apple trees do grow fairly big, so you'd want it away from the house. Finally, they'd help stop soil erosion.

If you flatten an area around the apple tree, put down some gravel, and some steps up to it with wild flowers from the below idea around the steps and tree, it's look nice.

looksee wrote: »

Strim it down, do a moss killer if necessary, then sow some wild flower seeds - this rather unlikely looking set up will sort you for best types for your area http://www.wildflowers.ie/

jaffa20

It look fine already. Trellis around oil tank with a climbing plant and maybe trip lower branches of the tree to allow more light in to allow more wildflowers to grow. Unless this is your only lawn area, i would really leave it alone.

JustAThought

jaffa20 wrote: »

It look fine already. Trellis around oil tank with a climbing plant and maybe trip lower branches of the tree to allow more light in to allow more wildflowers to grow. Unless this is your only lawn area, i would really leave it alone.

+ 1 for this.

Having a few trees is a lovely thing - definately leave the tree & don’t be listening to that 1950’s thinking about roots and the drive/ house - just not relevant here and that tree is lovely.

What you could do is put a trellis down on the pathway side of the oiltank and grow evergreen honeysuckle or a flowering clematis up against it - just do one side and you won’t have to worry about access for delivery or blocking the refuelling area.

+1 for either seeding wildflowers or leaving it for the wildlife - don’t go putting gravel in it as this will cause you issues when you trim or strim.

You can see from the praks and lawns at the moment how barren and parched they look when we go without rain or have a hosepupe ban - all the areas planted with wildflowers or left for nature look so much better and are kinder to the environment and help the bees/wildlife & birds for feeding.

If you get an apple tree - fabulous idea - just make sure you buy a self pollinating one as otherwise you will have no apples! Just check when you buy - the label should tell you. Some places sell the male and female apple trees that pollinate each other best together but then you need to plan for two apple trees! You could of course do a fruit garden with various fruiting shrubs - raspberries, blueberries, and different varieties or strawberries in planters - would be a really nice way to use the space and a bit of a novelty! I bought a few different varieties of blueberry bushes & raspberries and couldn’t believe the tastes - they were nothing like the dull bland blueberries you buy in shops - amazing & a supereasy experience! You could also add a pear tree or different types of fruit trees - plums have yellow, damsen, etc varieties and they all taste different and bloom/fruit at different times! Could be quite the fun experiment with lots of novelty factor and easy benefits.

beggars_bush

Test For Echo wrote: »

I don't drink!

7up is a drink.

ellee

You’ve loads of advice!!

Main point is a lawn on that slope is a painful amount of work

Other big point is those trees (at least from your photo) look perfectly salvageable if you want to do that. They are small and bushy and away from house. They are not going to damage the house.

If it was my garden I’d

> prune/thin trees as desired
> strim the vegetation
> plant up lower half with shrubs etc maybe a meandering path for access. Don’t be afraid of shrubs. They are far less work than a lawn and there are apps where you can record what you bought and they will remind you if they need any care.
> plant an apple tree up the back and go for a wilder uncultivated look with wildflowers etc up there.

Personally I would also move the oil tank!

Test For Echo

beggars_bush wrote: »

7up is a drink.

When are yis calling?

Test For Echo

Brego888 wrote: »

You've mentioned a few times about the trees being close to or hanging over the house.
It doesn't look that way from your photos.
Can you take one from a side angle showing the back of the house and trees?

The edge of the trees just reaches the garden wall which is 12' from the house. I can't get a decent pic that conveys the scene as I'm too close and I'm not going into the neighbour's to take pics of a tree. :pac: They're also about the height of the house (the trees not the neighbours).

A lad doing an unrelated job at the house drew my attention to the trees saying that while they might not be a problem now, what if they get bigger and lean toward the house?

Test For Echo

JustAThought wrote: »

You could of course do a fruit garden with various fruiting shrubs - raspberries, blueberries, and different varieties or strawberries in planters - would be a really nice way to use the space and a bit of a novelty! I bought a few different varieties of blueberry bushes & raspberries and couldn’t believe the tastes - they were nothing like the dull bland blueberries you buy in shops - amazing & a supereasy experience! You could also add a pear tree or different types of fruit trees - plums have yellow, damsen, etc varieties and they all taste different and bloom/fruit at different times! Could be quite the fun experiment with lots of novelty factor and easy benefits.

I grew up in the sticks - next door neighbour at home used to grow fruit & veg in his back garden; strawberries, gooseberries, rhubarb, peas, etc. His growing area probably was no bigger than my back garden but he was mad for gardening.

There was also a commercial raspberry field across the hedge from our back garden and a few orchards within a short distance as well. Needless to say, I ate plenty of fresh fruit when I was young

Treehelpplease

Just prune. Cut off the lower branches, see how that looks, if it still looks too overgrown for you or too close to the house, cut off some of the bigger branches nearest to your house. Those trees look great and are probably great for privacy. I have loads of trees that are taller than my house, many 1.5 times the size of the two storey house and they're only around 8m away. Never had an issue with them. You are the one who can see them in person so maybe it doesn't look as well in person and go with your gut. If you feel it isn't worth your time risking it, you can always cut them down and let them sprout out smaller branches. It might not look the best in winter but overtime will improve

Have you considered some hedging along the fences to the neighbours' properties?

Test For Echo

Treehelpplease wrote: »

Have you considered some hedging along the fences to the neighbours' properties?

Not really. Certainly privacy isn't an issue at the rear of the house. There's only one house either side and, just like me, they don't use their garden for anything. Beyond the back gardens is a large field.

Treppen

Ya rather than go the whole 'pristine landscaped garden' which would be maintaining non stop. I'd try my hand at getting some food out of it.
Berry bushes grow easy enough.
Cherry tomatoes are quick and easy.
Root vegetables like onions leeks carrots turnips.
Potatoes are great for conditioning the soil (you might get in quick enough still), just dig a deep hole and cover gradually as they grow.
I had an old hippy friend with a small enough wild garden, she was into permaculture before it became a thing, which for her was basically throwing down random stuff every year and going foraging for food every now and again. Place looked derelict but she got many meals out of it.

beggars_bush

Test For Echo wrote: »

When are yis calling?

At least put it in a glass with some ice man!

That looks like a fair slope from the photo

kylith

beggars_bush wrote: »

That looks like a fair slope from the photo

It does, alright. OP, have you considered sheep? Maybe a small pony?

Test For Echo

Was going to wait until the weekend before doing anything but took a notion and got stuck in at the trees this evening. There was more cutting and chopping than I had anticipated and health & safety was questionable at times.

Seems to be a fair bit more light at the back of the house, which is good, but I don't know if it looks like an amateur hatchet job. I'm in 2 minds about chopping down the rest.

I have learned one thing; the garden is too steep to be a proper lawn so that option's out. It's tricky walking up and down never mind with a lawnmower.

Test For Echo

kylith wrote: »

OP, have you considered sheep? Maybe a small pony?

LOL, I like animals, but no.