Remote Working/Office Working Monitoring

kodirl

Can anyone recommend an online system where employees can log in remotely on a daily basis and record log in time for work, lunch breaks and log out time where the employer can see the employee log in/ log out times etc and where the employer has visibility as to whether the employee was actively using their computer during those hours? Thanks in advance


Edit: I'm not looking for something that monitors key strokes, productivity, projects employee was working on etc, just the basic info above.

LegallyAbroad

Up to you, but I'd be careful on something like this. If you have any educated professionals working for you they are going to seriously resent it.

Harika

The first two points can be easily achieved with an online clock in system, there are tons available and depending on size of your company or department.
Third point if they are actively using your system you need a deeply integrated system, this can be done with some project management tools that track emails e.g. no Idea if those track Skype online status, but yeah knowing the third point I would heavily resist it.
Alternatively you can ping each of them several times during the day and ask them what they thought about"normal people" or if it is raining at their location too.

kaahooters

you have to be extremily carefull before implementing something like this, some of the "tools" out there are effectivley illegal for monotoring staff.

consult your hr department on if this is a viable option firstly, then look at options.

OMM 0000

Not the answer you're looking for. I run a company where we hire a large number of outsourced programmers.

I take the opposite approach.

Work whatever hours you want. If you can get the work done in 4 hours, great. If you don't work Thursdays, no problem.

But you must do a good job and be honest with us.

I've found this causes people to work harder and do better work.

This sort of thing is a bad idea and to be honest totally alien to me as that sort of monitoring would be both unheard of and even the suggestion would not be tolerated by anyone I would work with or have worked with.

If the work is being done why do you need to know when people start/finish or take breaks? This is the type of thing you do for primary school children not skilled professionals.

Vetch

Employers are supposed to have a record of times worked in order to comply with Organisation of Working Time Act.

Continuous monitoring is a different matter. Even if software can do it, whether or not it's necessary, proportionate or a good idea for all different sorts of reasons needs careful consideration. Data Protection considerations usually frown on continuous monitoring.

Electric Sheep

Maria Acidic Gunrunning wrote: »

This sort of thing is a bad idea and to be honest totally alien to me as that sort of monitoring would be both unheard of and even the suggestion would not be tolerated by anyone I would work with or have worked with.

If the work is being done why do you need to know when people start/finish or take breaks? This is the type of thing you do for primary school children not skilled professionals.

The unthinkable has happened - I agree with something Nox has said.

Only someone with extremely poor management skills would equate time at the keyboard with productivity. Implement that monitoring and you will lose your talent and retain the losers.

Mrs OBumble

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Work whatever hours you want. If you can get the work done in 4 hours, great. If you don't work Thursdays, no problem.

That's fine if they are contractors.

But if they're employees, the Organisation of Woyking Time Act means you are required to know their specific hours of work.

John_Rambo

Electric Sheep wrote: »

The unthinkable has happened - I agree with something Nox has said.

Only someone with extremely poor management skills would equate time at the keyboard with productivity. Implement that monitoring and you will lose your talent and retain the losers.

I'm with you. Nox is actually right but some companies just can't let go of that factory floor management style. I used to work for one and they were forced to let people work from home and it worked very well, but they're calling people back in now for no other reason than they "have eyes" on them.

kodirl

All, we are not looking to monitor the employees every action. Simply to see that they have clocked in, taken their break, clocked out and can see that they have been active during the working period (we are not looking to monitor every single thing the employee did during this time, more to see that they didn't just clock in leave their computer for 8 hours and then clock out)

kodirl

Electric Sheep wrote: »

The unthinkable has happened - I agree with something Nox has said.

Only someone with extremely poor management skills would equate time at the keyboard with productivity. Implement that monitoring and you will lose your talent and retain the losers.

I think you misread my post. It is not for productivity as I had stated originally. It is to see that the employee was active.

adocholiday

kodirl wrote: »

All, we are not looking to monitor the employees every action. Simply to see that they have clocked in, taken their break, cocked out and can see that they have been active during the working period (we are not looking to monitor every single thing the employee did during this time, more to see that they didn't just clock in leave their computer for 8 hours and then clock out)

Wouldn't you know if they did nothing for 8 hours from their output though? In my job if I did nothing for 8 hours my manager would know pretty quickly because I'd be behind in my deliverables.

It always bothered me when some managers saw time at the desk as more important than what was actually output by the employee. This mentality has to change for working from home to be successful. I can sit at my desk for 8 hours and browse the net all day, or clock-in and download a mouse/keystroke spoofer so it appears I'm working. The tooling you're asking for can't account for that so I don't think it will really help you much.

JustAThought

I disagree - if you are paying a salary there is an expectation to be able to manage them and this requires to know that they are not just on the doss in the garden or watching daytime tv or playing with their children while you serve
them money through their bank accounts.

Its realistic to expect basics like wirking timeframes to be provided and to have expectations in relation to wirk hours - if teams in other countries need tasks or deadlines met by specific times it is little use for your employee to be deciding to start work at 4pm
midnight after their gaming seasion because they were on the doss all day, or doing childrens homework, or gardening / whatever.

My neighbours iphone has been ringing every 20
minutes in the garden for weeks - turns out his boss has keystroke tracking that needs activity every 20 minutes or it triggers - he is totally taking the piss. Having a software or system to counteract this kind of sloth protects the employer and other employees who have to take the load for these kinds of slackers.

Have you considered outside of PM tools and daily updates, a basic short term resource like calenders and its tasks manager - allow access/caalender sharing and have them uodate as they progress throughout the day - that way you have visibility on how they are
organising and blocking their time and what they are engaged in in any given hour/ block.
They can also block out lunches so colleagues know they are not available then.

kodirl

JustAThought wrote: »

I disagree - if you are paying a salary there is an expectation to be able to manage them and this requires to know that they are not just on the doss in the garden or watching daytime tv or playing with their children while you serve
them money through their bank accounts.

Its realistic to expect basics like wirking timeframes to be provided and to have expectations in relation to wirk hours - if teams in other countries need tasks or deadlines met by specific times it is little use for your employee to be deciding to start work at 4pm
midnight after their gaming seasion because they were on the doss all day, or doing childrens homework, or gardening / whatever.

My neighbours iphone has been ringing every 20
minutes in the garden for weeks - turns out his boss has keystroke tracking that needs activity every 20 minutes or it triggers - he is totally taking the piss. Having a software or system to counteract this kind of sloth protects the employer and other employees who have to take the load for these kinds of slackers.

Have you considered outside of PM tools and daily updates, a basic short term resource like calenders and its tasks manager - allow access/caalender sharing and have them uodate as they progress throughout the day - that way you have visibility on how they are
organising and blocking their time and what they are engaged in in any given hour/ block.
They can also block out lunches so colleagues know they are not available then.

The problem is the work for all is very dynamic and can change on the hour so there is little point implementing a set target/calendar of objectives for personnel to achieve when they could have to jump from one task to another at the click of a finger.

This is the reason why we just want to see clock in, breaks, clock out and just whether the employee was active.

wench

kodirl wrote: »

The problem is the work for all is very dynamic and can change on the hour so there is little point implementing a set target/calendar of objectives for personnel to achieve when they could have to jump from one task to another at the click of a finger.

This is the reason why we just want to see clock in, breaks, clock out and just whether the employee was active.

But how are you defining "active"?


If their work is so dynamic, then surely someone must be allocating it to them, and seeing it completed? If their outputs aren't produced, they aren't active. QED

heroics

kodirl wrote: »

I think you misread my post. It is not for productivity as I had stated originally. It is to see that the employee was active.

But the problem is that just because you say it’s that the employee is active does not change that you want to constantly monitor them.

How do you define active? Banging the keyboard like a chimp or actually completing tasks?

You are equating activity on a keyboard to working. As others have said if the work is not being done surely the managers can see the employees output has dropped or there jobs are not getting done?

kravmaga

kodirl wrote: »

Can anyone recommend an online system where employees can log in remotely on a daily basis and record log in time for work, lunch breaks and log out time where the employer can see the employee log in/ log out times etc and where the employer has visibility as to whether the employee was actively using their computer during those hours? Thanks in advance


Edit: I'm not looking for something that monitors key strokes, productivity, projects employee was working on etc, just the basic info above.

Here is your answer and its a bullet proof system, no way around it. This software system is used by a lot of American companies, especially in a call centre type environment.

Ayaya One-X , Agent version 2.5.13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6H7bBR-Rs0

Fred Cryton

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Up to you, but I'd be careful on something like this. If you have any educated professionals working for you they are going to seriously resent it.

Seriously resent what, turning up and doing the required hours they're paid for?


IF they're "educated professionals" i'm sure they understand they're getting a salary in exchange for their time, right?

Mrs OBumble

adocholiday wrote: »

Wouldn't you know if they did nothing for 8 hours from their output though? In my job if I did nothing for 8 hours my manager would know pretty quickly because I'd be behind in my deliverables.

Not necessarily.

I recall a guy who outsourced his entire job via Freelancer ( or something).

It was only detected when a network administrator questioned the IP addresses "he" was connecting from.

wench

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Seriously resent what, turning up and doing the required hours they're paid for?

No, resent the lack of trust or respect that I would do the work I'm paid for.
I don't need someone standing over my shoulder in the office, I don't need it now either.


If you're such a bad manager that you can't tell if your employees are being productive, that's on you, not them.

Electric Sheep

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Seriously resent what, turning up and doing the required hours they're paid for?


IF they're "educated professionals" i'm sure they understand they're getting a salary in exchange for their time, right?

Salaried professionals are not paid by the hour, that is the very definition of salaried. They are paid to do the job. Any decent manager should be able to tell if the job is being done or not. The hours are irrelevant.

Fred Cryton

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Salaried professionals are not paid by the hour, that is the very definition of salaried. They are paid to do the job. Any decent manager should be able to tell if the job is being done or not. The hours are irrelevant.

Wrong. You have a complete misunderstanding.


Salaried professionals are being paid to do the job, however long that takes. Then they're also being paid to use the rest of their time to think of ways of making their employer more money.

JustAThought

Apart from some employers who think employment is akin to endentured slavery, most contracts contain working hours and a standard weekly quota of hours - 37 or 40, which professionals and managers are expected to exceed from time to
time or as the need arises - hopefully not too often. For most, is not a lazzie faire arrangement of unspecified time the balance of which you can spend eating grapes on your day bed or hoovering up squadrons of spiders from your shed ‘workspace’.

OP, your employees could just log in and sit there, reading a book or whatever and just refresh every fifteen minutes. For eight hours.

I'd be more concerned with output, rather than input. Not an answer to your question, but that's what popped out as soon as I read the post.

Electric Sheep

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Wrong. You have a complete misunderstanding.


Salaried professionals are being paid to do the job, however long that takes. Then they're also being paid to use the rest of their time to think of ways of making their employer more money.

I'm not.

I am paid to write code. Making extra money for the company is not my job. It is the job of the business not the IT department. YMMV by industry and location of course .

Your workplace sounds unpleasant, I am sorry for that.

I am just wondering how you define actively using the computer? they could be sitting in front of the computer press a few key now and then but doing anything reading, studying, have another laptop open and be on social media. The vast majority are not doing that and the tiny percentage who are are not worth bothering about.


There is online training which does not require much interaction its more a case of listening to it, so at the beginning, it tells percipients that several online photo will be taken as the training progresses to make sure the person is looking and listing to the online training not just turning it on and doing something else.

Also beware of some who says they have found ways to get around WFH, they haven't some people love to present themselves as chancers even well in to their forties its very immature, I don't know what's going on with that.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That's fine if they are contractors.

But if they're employees, the Organisation of Woyking Time Act means you are required to know their specific hours of work.

I don't know many people working in skilled IT, engineering, science, project management etc who have their hours in anyway tracked. For project management purposes I keep a track of my hours for billing to different projects but I put down 9 to 5 everyday and that rarely has any connection with the hours I happen to work (which are normally longer also).

Even when I'm going into the office I could be a week or two without even interacting with my boss, so he would have no idea what hours I'm doing nor does he care as he comes and goes as he wants also. Get the work done is the point of the job not what hours you work.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not necessarily.

I recall a guy who outsourced his entire job via Freelancer ( or something).

It was only detected when a network administrator questioned the IP addresses "he" was connecting from.

So rare the same story is being told for years - if it even happened.

Someone working in IT who outsourced their job would surely be smart enough to setup a VPN to their home network that the person they outsourced would connect to their corporate network though.

BrianD3

I work in the public service in a professional junior managerial role and surprise, surprise, the monitoring is like something from the 1950s. Nothing automated as far as I know. I would prefer if it were and would have no fear about having my time/activity/inactivity on the PC monitored. Better than what I have to do which is to produce a memo at the end of each week which consists of:

Monday morning: "I sent an email to Mary about x"
Tuesday morning "I had a phone conversation with Tom about y"
etc.
etc.
Friday afternoon: "I produced my weekly memo detailing work undertaken and emailed it to Jim"

I'm not joking here. The only saving grace is that I am at least allowed to use MS Word and email the memo rather than printing it out and posting it :rolleyes:

fits

Yes this sort of monitoring is a real turn-off for me. I even resent flexi-time having had complete freedom until my last job. Communication should be regular anyway.

GarIT

There would be security and privacy concerns around out of hours. You would require a system where you can't see if they are using their computer out of hours.


I can't see how this could be done without installing monitoring software. Which an employee would be reasonably entitled to refuse if you are not providing the equipment.

I’m just glad I’ve never had to deal with any of this crap, even not having admin rights on a machine is dinosaur stuff to me. My work laptop is basically my own, ordered by me (and expensed) fully setup and configured by myself and all software etc installed by myself. Only I can access it, even running of my own personal Apple ID (I only use Mac). I access files though OneDrive and keep a local copy of everything also so no need for even going though a vpn.

My last job if you wanted a windows laptop you had to go though IT and get a bloated, admin locked ball of crap but they knew nothing about a macs so if you wanted one you *ordered yourself and expensed it totally bypassing IT which I of course did.

*not everyone could do it but if you had control over a budget you could or authorise someone is to.

RedXIV

Maria Acidic Gunrunning wrote: »

I’m just glad I’ve never had to deal with any of this crap, even not having admin rights on a machine is dinosaur stuff to me. My work laptop is basically my own, ordered by me (and expensed) fully setup and configured by myself and all software etc installed by myself. Only I can access it, even running of my own personal Apple ID (I only use Mac).

My last job if you wanted a windows laptop you had to go though IT and get a bloated, admin locked ball of crap but they knew nothing about a macs so if you wanted one you *ordered yourself and expensed it totally bypassing IT which I of course did.

*not everyone could do it but if you had control over a budget you could or authorise someone is to.

I would have thought this was standard too? It wouldn't be unusual in my role (IT) to put in an extra few hours here or there in the evening but this is usually compensated when in the office with "gonna take off a bit early on Friday" or "Will be late in next tuesday".

I think the problem this causes is that the people who don't need this will be the ones blasting through work anyway but may feel that they are now rigidly tied to 9-5 and if that was the case in my place, at 5.01 the computer would be off.

As others have said, if you can't tell as a manager that work isn't getting done from deliverables, I'm not sure what this is going to do to help?

No posts for two days from the OP. Funny.

Jim2007

JustAThought wrote: »

I disagree - if you are paying a salary there is an expectation to be able to manage them and this requires to know that they are not just on the doss in the garden or watching daytime tv or playing with their children while you serve
them money through their bank accounts.

If you are going to manager remote workers, particularly professionals, then you need to know their job very well, well enough to be able to assess if their output represents a good days work or not.

Monitoring tools etc.. are only just CYA for weak managers and remote management will highlight managers who are weak in knowing their business area.

I've managed a remote team of seven in the Ukraine for about 6 years. I do a morning call with them and apart from that leave them to get on with it. I spend about four hours a day reviewing their work and the rest of the day getting my own work done. I don't really care if they spend 5 hours, 6 hours.... on the job as long as they are delivering quality work on schedule.

My only requirement is that I can get in contact with them between 8:00 and 18:00 during the day or that the let me know when they are going off line.

I've had three people leave the team and be replaced and one I terminated because he was not delivering.

I'm happy with the situation.

OMM 0000

Maria Acidic Gunrunning wrote: »

not having admin rights on a machine is dinosaur stuff to me

If I started a job and I didn't have admin rights, I'd ask for admin rights, and if they refused to give it to me, I'd quit. It's a major red flag.

Note I'm assuming it's a tech company.

OMM 0000

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That's fine if they are contractors.

But if they're employees, the Organisation of Woyking Time Act means you are required to know their specific hours of work.

Good point.

I'm talking specifically about contractors but even then... I don't think I've ever tracked someone's hours. :cool:

kodirl

Thanks to all who replied. The MD has decided just to use a basic clock in system . Looks like he trusts the employees after all.

gladerunner

JustAThought wrote: »

I disagree - if you are paying a salary there is an expectation to be able to manage them and this requires to know that they are not just on the doss in the garden or watching daytime tv or playing with their children while you serve
them money through their bank accounts.

Its realistic to expect basics like wirking timeframes to be provided and to have expectations in relation to wirk hours - if teams in other countries need tasks or deadlines met by specific times it is little use for your employee to be deciding to start work at 4pm
midnight after their gaming seasion because they were on the doss all day, or doing childrens homework, or gardening / whatever.

My neighbours iphone has been ringing every 20
minutes in the garden for weeks - turns out his boss has keystroke tracking that needs activity every 20 minutes or it triggers - he is totally taking the piss. Having a software or system to counteract this kind of sloth protects the employer and other employees who have to take the load for these kinds of slackers.

Have you considered outside of PM tools and daily updates, a basic short term resource like calenders and its tasks manager - allow access/caalender sharing and have them uodate as they progress throughout the day - that way you have visibility on how they are
organising and blocking their time and what they are engaged in in any given hour/ block.
They can also block out lunches so colleagues know they are not available then.

Wow - minding your children is now the pursuit of slackers and sloths.
Do you need reminding that the kids have no where to go. The smaller variety sometimes require feeding and changing, and they don't sit passively for long periods even when we have the great reward of being served with money.

gladerunner

gladerunner wrote: »

Wow - minding your children is now the pursuit of slackers and sloths.
Do you need reminding that the kids have no where to go. The smaller variety sometimes require feeding and changing, and they don't sit passively for long periods even when we have the great reward of being served with money.

I've two small children, looking after them is harder work than actual work.

LegallyAbroad

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Seriously resent what, turning up and doing the required hours they're paid for?


IF they're "educated professionals" i'm sure they understand they're getting a salary in exchange for their time, right?

No, their knowledge and expertise.

Some weeks (rarely) I work 70- 80 hours. Most weeks I work about 50 hours. There are usually one or two weeks a year were I work maybe 20 hours.

No one cares what exact time I work because I'm an educated professional and my employer pays me for my knowledge and expertise, not to sit at a desk for a defined time.

gladerunner

Jazlynn Agreeable Toothache wrote: »

I've two small children, looking after them is harder work than actual work.

Most people have not realised that this is not a normal e working/remote working experience. For the most part, employees are just trying to make it work and are threading the water.

gladerunner

gladerunner wrote: »

Most people have not realised that this is not a normal e working/remote working experience. For the most part, employees are just trying to make it work and are threading the water.

Including a few managers it appears. People aren't home by choice. They'd probably jump at the chance to get the kids back in school/creche/whatever given the chance, and I know I'll be back in the office as soon as it is safe.

Jazlynn Agreeable Toothache

Jazlynn Agreeable Toothache wrote: »

and I know I'll be back in the office as soon as it is safe.

A large number of people would prefer to remain working form home at least a few days a week though as it has massive benefits for most.

Mrs OBumble

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

No, their knowledge and expertise.

Some weeks (rarely) I work 70- 80 hours. Most weeks I work about 50 hours. There are usually one or two weeks a year were I work maybe 20 hours.

You employer could get prosecuted for allowing you to do this. Workplace Relations can and do audit employer compliance with employee rights and welfare.

LegallyAbroad

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You employer could get prosecuted for allowing you to do this. Workplace Relations can and do audit employer compliance with employee rights and welfare.

That's realistically never going to happen.

Most large employers don't even keep records for their middle management and above, in my experience.

LegallyAbroad

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

That's realistically never going to happen.

Most large employers don't even keep records for their middle management and above, in my experience.

I don’t think anyone in a skilled professional salaried role has there hours tracked in anyway whatsoever. It’s pie in the sky stuff on about workplace relations etc.

bilbot79

JustAThought wrote: »

My neighbours iphone has been ringing every 20
minutes in the garden for weeks - turns out his boss has keystroke tracking that needs activity every 20 minutes or it triggers - he is totally taking the piss. Having a software or system to counteract this kind of sloth protects the employer and other employees who have to take the load for these kinds of slackers.

https://gfycat.com/nervousvaguecowrie