Landlord is selling the house

skinny90

Hi All,

We moved into an apt 2 months and the landlord has dropped a bombshell that he wants to sell

Initially he stated that nothing will happen for a while as the market is the way it is

Now he has informed us of a viewing tomorrow with the actioneer and prospect.

He is also curious whether we are interested

Here is the thing, myself and my partner really like the apt and down the line we would like to purchase it

Down the line would be working towards a deposit and getting a mortgage

Right now thats not something we are in a position to do but for sure in 12 months we would be in a position ( cant see there being an issue with the mortgage app itself, we both earn fairly decent saleries)

What would the best approach here be when it comes to showing interest in the apartment

Brego888

I don't see how there is anything that you can do. You say yourself you aren't in a position to buy.
You could just be honest with the landlord and say you'd be interested in a year but that's not much use to them.
If they struggle to sell you could be in a decent position to make a bid next year though.

Marcusm

Why would you entertain a viewing?

con747

Contact Threshold 1800 454 454 and see if there are any options you could work out with the landlord.

meijin

skinny90 wrote: »

Hi All,
We moved into an apt 2 months and the landlord has dropped a bombshell that he wants to sell

1 - what does your lease say? any fixed term period?
2 - you are entitled to peaceful occupation; you don't need to entertain viewings

Faze11

meijin wrote: »

1 - what does your lease say? any fixed term period?
2 - you are entitled to peaceful occupation; you don't need to entertain viewings

Circumstances change and that goes for landlords too. Hopefully he is one of the good ones. If it were me and trying to be a decent human being I would a. Look for similar alternate alts for rent in the area (Possibly rent may have gone down a little with current circumstances) b. Talk to the landlord and see if they were willing to entertain the idea of purchase down the line if not in a rush. Either way I would try and be amicable in allowing viewings and proactive in looking for alternate accommodation if necessary.

sugarman20

Marcusm wrote: »

Why would you entertain a viewing?

Great advice here. Don't allow a viewing and come back to us with how that works out. :rolleyes:

skinny90

Faze11 wrote: »

Circumstances change and that goes for landlords too. Hopefully he is one of the good ones. If it were me and trying to be a decent human being I would a. Look for similar alternate alts for rent in the area (Possibly rent may have gone down a little with current circumstances) b. Talk to the landlord and see if they were willing to entertain the idea of purchase down the line if not in a rush. Either way I would try and be amicable in allowing viewings and proactive in looking for alternate accommodation if necessary.

Thanks, we are being amicable, the landlord isnt the worst, il know more when we sit down and discuss face to face. I guess its just a shock that we are essentially being up rooted after settling down. we both agreed that this would be the last place we would rent, wed properly save and the next move was to be a purchase. Looking in the area currently is more expensive but thats to be expected.


Thanks anyways

TheChizler

If you have a fixed term lease you can't be uprooted until that's up.

skinny90

TheChizler wrote: »

If you have a fixed term lease you can't be uprooted until that's up.

yeah maybe I was a little dramatic saying uprooted but it feels like it. It just sh*tty news to hear after moving in. we will discuss with the landlord if something can be formalized down the line

BrokenArrows

skinny90 wrote: »

Hi All,

We moved into an apt 2 months and the landlord has dropped a bombshell that he wants to sell

Initially he stated that nothing will happen for a while as the market is the way it is

Now he has informed us of a viewing tomorrow with the actioneer and prospect.

He is also curious whether we are interested

Here is the thing, myself and my partner really like the apt and down the line we would like to purchase it

Down the line would be working towards a deposit and getting a mortgage

Right now thats not something we are in a position to do but for sure in 12 months we would be in a position ( cant see there being an issue with the mortgage app itself, we both earn fairly decent saleries)

What would the best approach here be when it comes to showing interest in the apartment

You could suggest something like a lockout agreement.

Both you and the landlord place a deposit with a solicitor. Say 5k.

And the agreement being that you will purchase the property from the landlord in 12 months time for X amount of money.

If either of you break the agreement then the person loses their deposit to the other party.

If the prices rise a lot. Your landlord may withdraw from the agreement and sell to another party and lose his 5k.

If the prices drop then you might decide not to purchase and lose your 5k.

If the price is roughly where you expect it to be in 12 months the sale proceeds and everyone's gets their 5k back.

skooterblue2

BrokenArrows wrote: »

If the prices drop then you might decide not to purchase and lose your 5k.

If the price is roughly where you expect it to be in 12 months the sale proceeds and everyone's gets their 5k back.

House prices are going to drop by a lot more than 5k. They are already down 10% in Dublin. We havent hit November yet. If ye are both in stable jobs get looking to buy.

BrokenArrows

skooterblue2 wrote: »

House prices are going to drop by a lot more than 5k. They are already down 10% in Dublin. We havent hit November yet. If ye are both in stable jobs get looking to buy.

It was a suggestion of how they would be able to suggest to the owner to hold off for 12 months.

But your right. With the current market the deposit would need to be much higher.

TheSheriff

skooterblue2 wrote: »

House prices are going to drop by a lot more than 5k. They are already down 10% in Dublin. We havent hit November yet. If ye are both in stable jobs get looking to buy.

Have they? Do you have a link which shows this 10% drop?

Marcusm

sugarman20 wrote: »

Great advice here. Don't allow a viewing and come back to us with how that works out. :rolleyes:

They have recently taken up occupation, I assume for a 12 month lease. The landlord is not acting with particular good grace. He is precluded by law from issuing a termination notice but asks that they allow people to walk around the home at a point in time where emergency provisions remain in effect and we are all encouraged to minimise the number of people who enter our homes. The landlord is truly trying it on and in the circumstances I would not entertain the prospect of viewings. It’s unlikely that this has come out of the blue and appears to be bad faith given how recently they have taken up occupation.

skooterblue2

TheSheriff wrote: »

Have they? Do you have a link which shows this 10% drop?

No not really
https://www.thejournal.ie/house-prices-housing-ireland-economy-coronavirus-covid-buy-mortgage-5103632-May2020/

But we are already in a recession which is currently worse than 2008 and there is a second recession on the way in November after the election regardless of who wins in America.

Even my dim witted brother in law is selling his second motorcycle I implored him not buy in February. Cant save stupid.

antimatterx

Marcusm wrote: »

Why would you entertain a viewing?

It's not their property, it's the landlords.

TheSheriff

skooterblue2 wrote: »

No not really
https://www.thejournal.ie/house-prices-housing-ireland-economy-coronavirus-covid-buy-mortgage-5103632-May2020/

But we are already in a recession which is currently worse than 2008 and there is a second recession on the way in November after the election regardless of who wins in America.

To be fair, there is a massive difference in the statement "Houses prices are down 10% in Dublin already" to linking to an article which quotes an ESRI study that predicts house prices might drop 12%. Big difference. To date, I have only seen price increases in Dublin in the areas we are looking.

I don't disagree with you re; the recession; but we also have unprecedented QE going on, with no idea how it will play out. The question which remains unanswered is what type of recession, who will be impacted, how long etc. All these should be considerations for the OP whose landlord is selling. Unfortunately nobody has these answers.

Anyway, back on topic.... OP, our landlord asked us at one point would we buy the apartment and even suggested they would be happy until we were ready to buy it. We declined... but its worth opening the dialogue.

December2012

Have you talked with your bank or your local authority about getting a mortgage? How much notice are you entitled to - could you save a deposit in that time? If you factor in the time it would take the property to go sale agreed?

accensi0n

antimatterx wrote: »

It's not their property, it's the landlords.

You seem to be saying that the landlord can just have viewings whenever he wants because he owns the property?

That goes against the information here:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html#ld7acd

"You are entitled to quiet and exclusive enjoyment of your home."

"Your landlord is only allowed to enter your home with your permission. If the landlord needs to carry out repairs or inspect the premises, it should be by prior arrangement, except in an emergency"

antimatterx

accensi0n wrote: »

You seem to be saying that the landlord can just have viewings whenever he wants because he owns the property?

That goes against the information here:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html#ld7acd

"You are entitled to quiet and exclusive enjoyment of your home."

"Your landlord is only allowed to enter your home with your permission. If the landlord needs to carry out repairs or inspect the premises, it should be by prior arrangement, except in an emergency"

No I'm not saying that.

But "not entertaining a viewing" is absolute nonsense.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

House prices are going to drop by a lot more than 5k. They are already down 10% in Dublin. We havent hit November yet. If ye are both in stable jobs get looking to buy.

House prices rose in May.

if you are interested in buying why pay another year of rent and then buy it unless you foresee a drop more than that amount.

(could try upmost to sort out issues of deposit etc if you're genuinely interested in the property)

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

No not really
https://www.thejournal.ie/house-prices-housing-ireland-economy-coronavirus-covid-buy-mortgage-5103632-May2020/

But we are already in a recession which is currently worse than 2008 and there is a second recession on the way in November after the election regardless of who wins in America.

Even my dim witted brother in law is selling his second motorcycle I implored him not buy in February. Cant save stupid.

House prices are rising again after the drop during the early lockdown.

Pkiernan

This post is a good warning to landlords that there is no upside for a LL to a 12 mo th lease agreement.

meijin

Pkiernan wrote: »

This post is a good warning to landlords that there is no upside for a LL to a 12 mo th lease agreement.

people who move house want to have at least minimum stability in their life, not be moved around every 2 months, because the LL "changed their mind about renting"

challengemaster

antimatterx wrote: »

It's not their property, it's the landlords.

The deed may belong to the landlord, but once the house is rented it's the occupiers house. The landlord has no real right to have viewings, and the tenants are under no obligation to allow it. By law, there is no access for viewings under the residential tenancies act. There may be a clause relating to it in the lease.

Pkiernan

Unless theres a lease in place, a tenancy can be ended for any reason in the first 6 months.

Pkiernan

meijin wrote: »

people who move house want to have at least minimum stability in their life, not be moved around every 2 months, because the LL "changed their mind about renting"

Buy a house then?

Marcusm

antimatterx wrote: »

It's not their property, it's the landlords.

The tenant is in possession of the property under Irish law and not required to permit strangers to enter the property until that date. In normal circumstances, I would try and accommodate the landlord. However, these are not normal circumstances as (1) the landlord is acting in bad faith in seeking to do this at such an early stage and (2) the landlord is seeking to force the tenants to circumvent the emergency provisions relating to Covid.

Marcusm

antimatterx wrote: »

No I'm not saying that.

But "not entertaining a viewing" is absolute nonsense.

For what reason given the surrounding circumstances. No one other than those of us who live here have entered my home in 3 months. How about yours? Why should the tenants quiet enjoyment be disrupted in this manner, especially as the landlord is not, in any event, in a position to proceed with a sale in the current environment. Your approach seems to absolutist, mine is situational.

Marcusm

Pkiernan wrote: »

Unless theres a lease in place, a tenancy can be ended for any reason in the first 6 months.

But not currently as a result of the emergency provisions! Even if it could, it still does not require the tenants to permit viewings. Given the especially onerous provisions in place at the moment would you permit any Tom, Dick and Harriet access to your residence without any element of control?

The Student

Marcusm wrote: »

They have recently taken up occupation, I assume for a 12 month lease. The landlord is not acting with particular good grace. He is precluded by law from issuing a termination notice but asks that they allow people to walk around the home at a point in time where emergency provisions remain in effect and we are all encouraged to minimise the number of people who enter our homes. The landlord is truly trying it on and in the circumstances I would not entertain the prospect of viewings. It’s unlikely that this has come out of the blue and appears to be bad faith given how recently they have taken up occupation.

The tenants are only in the property two months so the landlord is within his rights to issue a termination notice on the 27th June due to current covid legislation. The RTA requirements only commence after the first six months has elapsed.

The landlord is selling so this is one of the grounds for terminating a lease anyway under the RTA.

So you suggest the tenants refuse to work with the landlord and he decides to evict thethem.

Great advice!

skinny90

For everyone’s sake we are not not working the land lord. It’s quite the opposite in fact.I’ve left in a spare key to the auctioneer even. Just wanted to post here as I’m quite naive to all of this and wanted to see if people were in a similar situation

circular flexing

skinny90 wrote: »

For everyone’s sake we are not not working the land lord. It’s quite the opposite in fact.I’ve left in a spare key to the auctioneer even. Just wanted to post here as I’m quite naive to all of this and wanted to see if people were in a similar situation

You are very naive. I wouldn't have left a key with the auctioneer. You are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the house and leaving a key with the auctioneer basically indicates that they can come and go as they please.



If you signed a fixed-term lease then you cannot be asked to leave until that term is up, even if the house is sold. Also banks generally don't give mortgages if the house has a sitting tenant unless it's a buy to let mortgage (which means lower LTV and higher interest rates).



You actually have most of the control here - I suggest you start exercising it.

skooterblue2

Logan Rhythmic Variation wrote: »

House prices are rising again after the drop during the early lockdown.

Those figures cant be right, where are they being sourced from?
Who pays more in a recession?

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Those figures cant be right, where are they being sourced from?
Who pays more in a recession?

Daft published their figures for May, house prices increased after dropping in April.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1146264/

johny33

accensi0n wrote: »

You seem to be saying that the landlord can just have viewings whenever he wants because he owns the property?

That goes against the information here:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html#ld7acd

"You are entitled to quiet and exclusive enjoyment of your home."

"Your landlord is only allowed to enter your home with your permission. If the landlord needs to carry out repairs or inspect the premises, it should be by prior arrangement, except in an emergency"

little bit of scrolling down would find you:

Obligations of a tenant
You must:

Give the landlord access (by appointment) for routine inspections

johny33

johny33 wrote: »

little bit of scrolling down would find you:

Obligations of a tenant
You must:

Give the landlord access (by appointment) for routine inspections

That does not extend to viewings though. Viewings are arranged by agreement, the tenant is not obligated to allow them.

johny33

Dav010 wrote: »

That does not extend to viewings though. Viewings are arranged by agreement, the tenant is not obligated to allow them.

Yes, the viewings are not specified in the Residential Tenancies Act. They are usually mentioned in the lease. So they better check the lease.

maestroamado

I think you should approach your banks and explain the situation just to sound them out, i assume that you have an idea of the asking price?
Even though you are being naive i think you better keep the landlord onside as there is nothing to be gained by being difficult.
If you can confirm you be in a position to buy in a year the landlord may want to talk to you.


good luck...

Cantstandsya

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Those figures cant be right, where are they being sourced from?
Who pays more in a recession?

House prices didn't go up in May, asking prices went up.

Estate Agents have bumped up asking prices, possibly in an attempt to counter the lower offers they're receiving.

noodler

Cantstandsya wrote: »

House prices didn't go up in May, asking prices went up.

Estate Agents have bumped up asking prices, possibly in an attempt to counter the lower offers they're receiving.

Went up by 0.1% in the month of March.

Still waiting for April.

Shefwedfan

Logan Rhythmic Variation wrote: »

House prices are rising again after the drop during the early lockdown.

House prices are rising but who is buying? The main two banks lost 200 million last quarter and expect similar this qtr...

People are viewing as they think a bargain might be about but how many are actually firing out precovid money

cruizer101

Dav010 wrote: »

Daft published their figures for May, house prices increased after dropping in April.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1146264/

Asking prices, that tells you nothing of what is actually happening.
No one knows for sure where they are going, there may be some increase due to some pent up demand but until we have ppr figures no one can be sure.

OP I wouldn't be letting viewings take place, tbh its bad form of the landlord to sell up so soon after letting, he must have known at the time of letting that he was planning on selling anyway.

Flimsy_Boat

Marcusm wrote: »

They have recently taken up occupation, I assume for a 12 month lease. The landlord is not acting with particular good grace. He is precluded by law from issuing a termination notice but asks that they allow people to walk around the home at a point in time where emergency provisions remain in effect and we are all encouraged to minimise the number of people who enter our homes. The landlord is truly trying it on and in the circumstances I would not entertain the prospect of viewings. It’s unlikely that this has come out of the blue and appears to be bad faith given how recently they have taken up occupation.

I totally agree with this.

I had a similar thing happen to me, except it was a room I was renting and not an entire apartment. I move in and 3 weeks later, the house is being sold and someone I didn't know walked into my bedroom with a weird laser gun thing to take measurements. He was just as mortified as I was to find me in there. I left within a week, and when the 'head tenant' asked me for 3 weeks worth of utility bills on top of my deposit she was keeping, I just blocked her. I later found out that the house was being sold with her remaining as a tenant and she had been subletting at a huge profit. I hope whoever bought the house insisted she pay market rent after.

Shefwedfan

Maybe some people missed it but we had a little thing called COVID and a lockdown

The constant landlord bashing is very tiresome. They are people as well who have to pay etc, you have no idea and maybe they are struggling and need the cash

I seen no problem with tenants demanding not to be removed from properties during virus, plenty of landlord reduced rent. We are all in this blah blah blah. Then at first sign of an issue it’s back to same screw the landlord....

Honestly you want to be an awful ignorant so and so if you stopped viewing with the way Ireland is at the moment, plenty of properties available to rent as well

skooterblue2

cruizer101 wrote: »

OP I wouldn't be letting viewings take place, tbh its bad form of the landlord to sell up so soon after letting, he must have known at the time of letting that he was planning on selling anyway.

There are an awful lot of stupid people out there that are ignoring this recession that will develop into the biggest depression since the 1930's

skooterblue2

Cantstandsya wrote: »

House prices didn't go up in May, asking prices went up.

Estate Agents have bumped up asking prices, possibly in an attempt to counter the lower offers they're receiving.

So to pre-empt the savvy seller wanting their 15% discount. So its not the same thing as money for houses has risen. There is going to be a lot more blood on the dancefloor before this song is over.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

There are an awful lot of stupid people out there that are ignoring this recession that will develop into the biggest depression since the 1930's

Does your crystal ball give tonight’s euro millions numbers?

I can see quite a fast recovery to be honest, this was not like other recessions/crashes where things gradually wound down. Things were actually on the up prior to covid and much of the reasons are still there. Also a large number of industries were not hit that would normally be, many being high paying also and large employers. Construction is still in big demand also and the jobs haven’t gone away and again this was a bit area hit in the last recession.

skooterblue2

Logan Rhythmic Variation wrote: »

Does your crystal ball give tonight’s euro millions numbers?

I can see quite a fast recovery to be honest, this was not like other recessions/crashes where things gradually wound down. Things were actually on the up prior to covid and much of the reasons are still there. Also a large number of industries were not hit that would normally be, many being high paying also and large employers. Construction is still in big demand also and the jobs haven’t gone away and again this was a bit area hit in the last recession.

Its the view that Ireland stands alone that is going to make this harder for people who are ignoring the unregulated debt. The correlation between or absence there of between gold and markets and the Fed printing money will make this depression much harder and deeper than 2008. This has nothing to do with the Irish economy, it has to do with unregulated debt in the world economy.

If you see a fast recovery put your money where your mouth is and either buy a house before the second week in November or buy shares in luxury items companies right now.

As for the Lotto/Euromillions? It is a proportional tax on stupidity by the wealthy on the poor.