Sourcing 12" wide pressure treated wood

boardtc

I would like to source some 12x2 pressure treated wood (actual size 1 1/2" x 11 1/4").

My local supplier's in the Midlands widest is 9x2 (16ft lengths).

Does anyone know where I can get some?

Lumen

I found it quite difficult to source that size in regular treated softwood. The trees aren't that wide!

This crowd might be worth a try. Based on my experience, call rather than email.

https://flanagantimber.com/

Or

https://www.woodcomponents.ie/beams/

who supplied me with long lengths of 3x12 Douglas Fir.

Or go straight to the sawmills.

Either way, it's likely to be expensive.

boardtc

Real fab info Lumen, thanks!


Flanagan's could only do 9x2. Then I found a sawmill in Galway that does the metric equivalent, 300x44pt 5.4m Douglas fir, for €50. I thought that was expensive until Wood Components quoted €110 + vat for the same!

Lumen

Which sawmill? Worth knowing for future. I have more plans for oversized timber

boardtc

https://www.curransawmills.com/treatment

sameoldname

Not sure what you're using it for so this might not be of use to you but I needed an 11" wide length of pressure treated timber and wanted it cheap.

I bought a 7x1 and a 4x1 and used a tracksaw to cut one edge on each lengthwise to make the edges straight and smooth. Only took off the bare minimum, a few mm. Used a ton of clamps and polyurethane glue (gorilla glue) and glued them edge on edge. Regular wood glue won't work on treated timber. Just wet one edge with water and put glue on the other and then clamp well for 24 hours.

Now, I wasn't using it for anything load bearing so keep that in mind but it might be an idea for you.

boardtc

Thanks for the idea. I'm figuring out some outdoor stairs. I only have a manual saw!! Other than a jigsaw. The sawmill might be cheaper than buying more power tools!

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

Which sawmill? Worth knowing for future. I have more plans for oversized timber

@lumen, they have 12x4 and 12x6 too you are sorted!

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

@lumen, they have 12x4 and 12x6 too you are sorted!

Yeah but my next project is a pergola, and my wife doesn't really like the pink heartwood of the Douglas Fir.

I've had a few offcuts sitting untreated outside for a couple of years and they're a bit less pink, but it's still not a great look if you want your wood to look brown.

Maybe I should try some oils on them.

edit: aha, maybe oak
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058086001

boardtc

Nice one with the green oak if you are happy to use non-pressure treated wood. A pergola will be a fab project, will anchoring the posts be ok on your site?

Your post raised some more questions for me. I was intending my stairs to be brown, what does the pressure treated douglas fir look like? Pressure-treated wood can be stained right? I assume this is desirable anyway where cuts have been made.

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

Nice one with the green oak if you are happy to use non-pressure treated wood. A pergola will be a fab project, will anchoring the posts be ok on your site?

Your post raised some more questions for me. I was intending my stairs to be brown, what does the pressure treated douglas fir look like? Pressure-treated wood can be stained right? I assume this is desirable anyway where cuts have been made.

I used non-treated Douglas Fir. I've no idea what the treated stuff looks like.

This was mine contrasted with untreated CLS timber.



I'm going to try and do a proper post-and-beam with mortice and tenon joints for the pergola, because if it's not hard it's not fun.

listermint

Lumen wrote: »

Yeah but my next project is a pergola, and my wife doesn't really like the pink heartwood of the Douglas Fir.

I've had a few offcuts sitting untreated outside for a couple of years and they're a bit less pink, but it's still not a great look if you want your wood to look brown.

Maybe I should try some oils on them.

edit: aha, maybe oak
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058086001

Easily stained or oiled two her liking

Calahonda52

sameoldname wrote: »

Not sure what you're using it for so this might not be of use to you but I needed an 11" wide length of pressure treated timber and wanted it cheap.

I bought a 7x1 and a 4x1 and used a tracksaw to cut one edge on each lengthwise to make the edges straight and smooth. Only took off the bare minimum, a few mm. Used a ton of clamps and polyurethane glue (gorilla glue) and glued them edge on edge. Regular wood glue won't work on treated timber. Just wet one edge with water and put glue on the other and then clamp well for 24 hours.

Now, I wasn't using it for anything load bearing so keep that in mind but it might be an idea for you.

Did you use the Type 1 or Type 2 GG

T2 is specifically for wood
https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/best-practices-guide/solid-wood-machining/what-difference-between-type-1-and-type-2-adhesive

sameoldname

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Did you use the Type 1 or Type 2 GG

T2 is specifically for wood
https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/best-practices-guide/solid-wood-machining/what-difference-between-type-1-and-type-2-adhesive

Pretty certain Type 1 and 2 glues are PVA based which I read somewhere doesn't bond pressure treated pine very well but don't quote me on that, some formulations might.

I used original Gorilla glue but any 100% polyurethane glue would work I guess. It's activated by water and it starts to foam up where it squeezes out, kind of like expanding foam (which is also polyurethane if I'm not mistaken). After 24 hours it's dry and you can chisel off the foam easily.

If I remember correctly I read that it has about 3/4 the strength of regular PVA glue but you have to make sure there are no gaps in the joint, otherwise it just foams up in the gap and has no strength at all unlike something like epoxy.
I was only using the piece of timber for decoration so the strength wasn't too important for my use case.

boardtc

Here's what the treated Douglas fir looks like. The treatment is water based and can be painted or oiled over:


Lads, I assume that the pressure treated Douglas fir would not benefit from having a membrane underneath the side in contact with the ground?

Lumen

Any wood in ground contact is bad. What are you building?

boardtc

An outdoor stairs. Treated douglas fir, seems to have 40 years....

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

An outdoor stairs. Treated douglas fir, seems to have 40 years....

Ah right. You should carefully treat the cut ends with Protim or equivalent.

Not sure what load is going through them, but I'd be inclined to either rest them on a free-draining gravel layer or a porous block (e.g. Quinn Lite). I have done the gravel thing before under garden sleepers but haven't yet tried the block approach.

boardtc

I want to make sure I use no rusting screws in the pressure treated douglas fir. Are carbon steel the way to go? https://www.diy.com/departments/diall-carbon-steel-decking-screw-dia-4-5mm-l-75mm-pack-of-250/3663602750574_BQ.prd

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

I want to make sure I use no rusting screws in the pressure treated douglas fir. Are carbon steel the way to go? https://www.diy.com/departments/diall-carbon-steel-decking-screw-dia-4-5mm-l-75mm-pack-of-250/3663602750574_BQ.prd

What are the screws doing exactly, in your stairs? Are they taking the entire load of each step? Are they holding the stairs on to something? i.e. does someone die or get hurt if the screws fail?

I would always prefer stainless TBH. I've used the Wirox spax ones outdoors for non-safety critical stuff and seen some light corrosion within one year, and I'm not even that close to the coast.

But they're more difficult to find and maybe you're in a hurry...

GinSoaked

I've had some success with the green coated decking screws. They seem to have the normal anodized yellow coating under the green finish. So far after a couple of years they all seem good (used several thousand) but the heads start to rust if you damage the pozi screw grip. Stainless would always be top of my list followed by heavily galvanised for coach screws where stainless is out of reach price wise.

https://www.diy.com/departments/timbadeck-carbon-steel-decking-screw-dia-4-5mm-l-65mm-pack-of-1300/139486_BQ.prd sort of thing.

Lumen

FWIW these guys are good for all things stainless...

http://inox.ie/

boardtc

@lumen I am liking the sound of this A4 marine grade steel, thanks!
For connecting 44mm thick to 100mm thick would M6 80mm be good enough ? That's the longest they have - see http://www.inox.ie/acatalog/Decking_Screws.html
They have eyebolts but do not do rebar - they just have long bolts http://www.inox.ie/acatalog/Studding.html
Normal rebar is rusted almost on purchase and I am planning on putting rebar (12mm reinforced bar) through my 100mm x 100mm (4x4). Would painting the rebar in zinc 182 rust primer be enough?

Lumen

Rebar is for concrete. If you want to use lengths of steel in tension, threaded rod will do (as long as you can bolt both ends). And that's zinc coated or stainless.

Variations in screw types come down to the shape of the head and the threading (e.g. single continuous thread for reinforcement, half or double thread for pulling things together).

If you go to the Spax website and select Projects in the top nav bar, you can find your application and then a suitable type of screw. Even if you don't buy Spax screws it helps to figure out what you need for your application.

As a rule of thumb use nails for holding things up and screws for holding things on.

Lumen

I'm still not sure exactly what you're building.

If you just need screws to hold stair risers and treads on to a standard pair of stringers, almost anything will do.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

Ah right. You should carefully treat the cut ends with Protim or equivalent.

Production of Protim was stopped a year ago due to an EU law which affected one of the ingredients. The manufacturer, John Murphy in Castlerea, now have a replacement called Cromar which is the same and comes in 1L, 2.5L and 5L.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

I'm still not sure exactly what you're building.

If you just need screws to hold stair risers and treads on to a standard pair of stringers, almost anything will do.

I'm building an outdoor stairs using pressure treated douglas fir. I don't want any of the screws, etc to rust. Had to google (stair) stringers, every day is a school day! Most things are not anti rust though....

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

Production of Protim was stopped a year ago due to an EU law which affected one of the ingredients. The manufacturer, John Murphy in Castlerea, now have a replacement called Cromar which is the same and comes in 1L, 2.5L and 5L.

That's interesting. It seems to be still for sale though.

e.g.

https://www.raygrahams.com/products/150385-protim-clear-solvent-wood-preserver.aspx

I'm building an outdoor staircase too right now, although in softwood as I'm too cheap to risk ruining a load of expensive hardwood if I get it wrong. It's only 75cm tall, so risk to life and limb is limited!

Would be good to see pics when you're done.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

Rebar is for concrete. If you want to use lengths of steel in tension, threaded rod will do (as long as you can bolt both ends). And that's zinc coated or stainless.

My plan is to use rebar to attach the stairs into the ground. Do you see any issues?

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

That's interesting. It seems to be still for sale though.

e.g.

https://www.raygrahams.com/products/150385-protim-clear-solvent-wood-preserver.aspx

Yes, they said some may still be available but that's it then.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

If you go to the Spax website and select Projects in the top nav bar, you can find your application and then a suitable type of screw. Even if you don't buy Spax screws it helps to figure out what you need for your application.

Interesting site. They have the A4 marine grade steel which is anti rust (not sure about A2). If I select A4 then the surface is "bright". Going into the detail it says "Multifunctional applications indoors". The options are mind boggling! I just want to buy a no rust screw

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

Interesting site. They have the A4 marine grade steel which is anti rust (not sure about A2). If I select A4 then the surface is "bright". Going into the detail it says "Multifunctional applications indoors". The options are mind boggling! I just want to buy a no rust screw

Honestly, unless you're right on the coast there's no point worrying about grades of stainless.

That one you linked to is Wirox, which is not stainless and will corrode outside (although depends on how exposed it is). Hence "indoor". These are Germans, they don't lie about this stuff. :-)

For instance, I would use the Wirox ones to batten a shed, but then stainless ones to screw the cladding to the battens. That way the heads of the Wirox screws are protected by the cladding, and the stainless ones (which are exposed) won't leak rust down the cladding. Wirox has enough protection so that it's not corroded by wood treatments.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

That's interesting. It seems to be still for sale though.

e.g.

https://www.raygrahams.com/products/150385-protim-clear-solvent-wood-preserver.aspx

That stuff seems different from this protim for an irish source? https://www.hardwareireland.ie/product/Protim-Wood-PreserverWoodworm-Killer-250500ml-/

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

Honestly, unless you're right on the coast there's no point worrying about grades of stainless.

That one you linked to is Wirox, which is not stainless and will corrode outside (although depends on how exposed it is). Hence "indoor". These are Germans, they don't lie about this stuff. :-)

For instance, I would use the Wirox ones to batten a shed, but then stainless ones to screw the cladding to the battens. That way the heads of the Wirox screws are protected by the cladding, and the stainless ones (which are exposed) won't leak rust down the cladding. Wirox has enough protection so that it's not corroded by wood treatments.

Good info. I don't know enough to figure out how to select stainless (anti rust) screws using the SPAX tool. I thought all A4 were anti rust.....jeepers.

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

That stuff seems different from this protim for an irish source? https://www.hardwareireland.ie/product/Protim-Wood-PreserverWoodworm-Killer-250500ml-/

Looking at the data sheet for 265, active ingredients are Propiconazole and Permethrin.

Propiconazole has been withdrawn....

https://www.bigga.org.uk/news-listing/propiconazole-withdrawal-what-does-it-mean.html
https://app.croneri.co.uk/whats-new/hse-requests-information-propiconazole-based-wood-preservatives#PO-DOCUMENT-ID_49382

Permethrin has not...

https://app.croneri.co.uk/questions-and-answers/status-permethrin-europe

"Propiconazole is now classified as Reproductive Toxicity 1B"

"Reproductive toxicity includes adverse effects on sexual function and fertility in adult males and females, as well as adverse effects on development of the offspring"

I'm hopefully done with reproduction, so I won't be chucking out the large can of 265 I have, although I am careful to use nitrile gloves.

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

Good info. I don't know enough to figure out how to select stainless (anti rust) screws using the SPAX tool. I thought all A4 were anti rust.....jeepers.

Neither A4 and A2 will rust, they are both arguably overkill for Irish weather except on the coast, but if you have an application which is safety critical or will look ugly with corrosion then why not. They're different grades of stainless steel. AFAIK they're stainless all the way through, not just on the surface.

Wirox (and other surface treatments) offer different levels of protection. That "olive" coated one you linked to is an example.

boardtc

There does not seem to be an option to buy on the spax site, how have you bought their screws?

Lumen

boardtc wrote: »

There does not seem to be an option to buy on the spax site, how have you bought their screws?

Amazon (.co.uk, .de) or https://www.baunativ.de/

Screwfix have some.

https://www.screwfix.ie/search?search=spax

Dr_Colossus

boardtc wrote: »

There does not seem to be an option to buy on the spax site, how have you bought their screws?

As above, I've bought larger quantities of stainless screws from UK stores selling on the Amazon platform but shipping can be an issue.
Have bought some in Goodwins previously but they only stock 4.0x50 A2. If you're looking for small quantities in varying sizes McMahons are very handy, good range of sizes
https://www.mcmahons.ie/screws-nails-fixings/screws/wood-screws/reisser-stainless-steel-screw-clipbox-5-6-0x80

boardtc

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

As above, I've bought larger quantities of stainless screws from UK stores selling on the Amazon platform but shipping can be an issue.
Have bought some in Goodwins previously but they only stock 4.0x50 A2. If you're looking for small quantities in varying sizes McMahons are very handy, good range of sizes
https://www.mcmahons.ie/screws-nails-fixings/screws/wood-screws/reisser-stainless-steel-screw-clipbox-5-6-0x80

Good tips thanks. Local is desirable, I think that's a box of 5 for 4.50 :eek:


Connecting 44mm to 100mm I assume 120mm would be desirable? McMahon's longest is 100mm A2, inox.ie is 80mm

boardtc

Thanks for everyone's help on this project, it's this and YouTube that will get me there!

Would painting standard rebar in zinc 182 rust primer be enough to prevent long term rust? Anything else the part that's in contact with the douglas fir and not in the ground could be treated with?

Lumen

Don't know anything about rustproofing rebar, but you owe us pics when it's done

GinSoaked

Galvanise it https://www.galvanizing.ie/galvanizers/ireland/

Lumen

I really don't know why you're using rebar rather than threaded bar, it's not like it's expensive.

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Threaded-Bar-M16-X-1-Metre-Zinc-Plated.html?filter_set[]=11,1457,1492

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

I really don't know why you're using rebar rather than threaded bar, it's not like it's expensive.

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Threaded-Bar-M16-X-1-Metre-Zinc-Plated.html?filter_set[]=11,1457,1492

I was looking at A2 version of that on the inox site just thought that was like an extended bolt and would not have the strength when I am sledge hammering it into the ground to hold the stairs.

boardtc

GinSoaked wrote: »

Galvanise it https://www.galvanizing.ie/galvanizers/ireland/

Nice, I was just reading options at http://www.carnationconstruction.com/Materials/01-Materials-Rebar.html

1. Basalt rebar
2. Fiberglass rebar
3. Galvanised!

Thanks GinSoaked!

boardtc

GinSoaked wrote: »

Galvanise it https://www.galvanizing.ie/galvanizers/ireland/

Super talked with shannonsidegalv, 3 weeks wait at the minute, 90cent per kilo + VAT. So just drop my cut rebar in there. Brilliant!
I wonder if I could just through in my screws too, night be a cheaper solution.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

You should carefully treat the cut ends with Protim or equivalent.

@lumen My local has been waiting on shipment of Protim for ever. You think this stuff would work equivalent? https://www.cromarbuildingproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Cromar-AlphaChem-3-in-1-Wood-Preserver-Ireland.pdf

GinSoaked

boardtc wrote: »

@lumen My local has been waiting on shipment of Protim for ever. You think this stuff would work equivalent? https://www.cromarbuildingproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Cromar-AlphaChem-3-in-1-Wood-Preserver-Ireland.pdf

Same active ingredients Propiconazole and permethrin - http://www.larsenbuildingproducts.com/product-downloads/?action=products&id=323&doc=tds-protim-265-wood-preservative.pdf

Obviously one could be stronger than the other but nothing to indicate that.

boardtc

Lumen wrote: »

Don't know anything about rustproofing rebar, but you owe us pics when it's done

Thanks for all the advice!
I made it to the first landing, it's about 1/3 of the way:

boardtc

Second level and 15 steps complete: