The current trend of removing cash is a serious mistake

skooterblue2

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

In a country where a whistleblower gets framed as a paedophile.

See how easy it is for the state/ banking establishment to strip him of his wealth with no cheques or balances? Its not about the money its about control and how you can be intimidated by the state.

skooterblue2

mickdw wrote: »

Im moving back to cash from tomorrow.
Didnt expect anyone to be handling cash at the height of virus but safer now i feel.

.... and what if the shop/business insist on cash?

Kermit.de.frog

Experience_day wrote: »

I see another thread about shops not taking cash etc and it strikes me as a massive mistake as a society to Let it happen. It is an integral part of maintaining (even at this stage nearly a fiction) of privacy and it's elimination from society will not be a positive development.

Interested to hear other people's opinions..

Hold on a moment while I shed a tear for the soon to be extinct drug lords, dealers and money launderes.

Can't happen soon enough imo

skooterblue2

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

My local Chinese is one example.

I've seen a few other small businesses where the card-machine seems to go out of order for weeks at a time. I'm guessing it's because the bank removes some facility from them.

The real truth is they would prefer cash. They are trying to run a cash business with as little bank transactions as possible.

retalivity

I have worked in finance, particularly in customer analytics, AML & fraud detection.
Because of this, I use cash as often as I can.

Murt10

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Yes I want banks revenue and health insurance companies knowing down to the last cent what I spend my money on

I've no problems with privacy. Revenue know what I earn, so there's nothing much to hide there.

I have accounts in various banks, so any one bank only sees what I want them to see.

Even in a cashless society there will always be small cash transactions. But if the majority of transactions go online then illegal or dubious transactions will be much harder to hide from Revenue and the Gardai.

Another poster mentioned that it might effect poor people disproportionately. I disagree. It may help them realise where they are spending all their money and keeping them poor.

Revolut do a monthly statement where they tell you how much you have spent under various headings: Fuel, groceries coffee etc. Looking through my statement (before Covid) I realised I was spending far more on coffee and doing so more frequently than I realised. So it can actually be useful like that.

How often have you taken out 50 or 100 and a day or two later you hadn't a penny. You wondered wher it was gone, but just couldn't account for it. In a cashless society you'll be able to see exactly wher you spent your money and make adjustments accordingly.

Finally, on the Revenue front, if everyone was paying their fair share of tax then the tax burden wouldn't be falling so hard on those who have no way of hiding it, and everyone would be paying a lower rate.

skooterblue2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Hold on a moment while I shed a tear for the soon to be extinct drug lords, dealers and money launderes.

Can't happen soon enough imo

you know they have cities in China? You want to live under the constant eye of the state?
You are no better than a microchipped dog. I know what you are thinking because I can access your google account, I know where you are because of your mobile phone, I know what you spend because I control your wealth. People are so fast to give up their rights of privacy and you wonder why their mental health suffers?

skooterblue2

Murt10 wrote: »

Even in a cashless society there will always be small cash transactions. But if the majority of transactions go online then illegal or dubious transactions will be much harder to hide from Revenue and the Gardai.

Another poster mentioned that it might effect poor people disproportionately. I disagree. It may help them realise where they are spending all their money and keeping them poor.

Revolut do a monthly statement where they tell you how much you have spent under various headings: Fuel, groceries coffee etc. Looking through my statement (before Covid) I realised I was spending far more on coffee and doing so more frequently than I realised. So it can actually be useful like that.

How often have you taken out 50 or 100 and a day or two later you hadn't a penny. You wondered wher it was gone, but just couldn't account for it. In a cashless society you'll be able to see exactly wher you spent your money and make adjustments accordingly.

Finally, on the Revenue front, if everyone was paying their fair share of tax then the tax burden wouldn't be falling so hard on those who have no way of hiding it, and everyone would be paying a lower rate.

There wont be cash if you make it cashless.
You have complete trust in the Government so you dont understand Quantitve easing/inflation. Everyone doesnt pay their fair share of tax. Corporations pay next to nothing while the middle and working class are taxed to the bone. It has nothing to do with wealth but to keep you busy so you dont question what is happening in society. While I disagree with parts of the social welfare system, they are not the reason for the working class and middle class being taxed to the hilt.

Lemsiper

Mike3287 wrote: »

Exactly

Kills the black market and drug money culture

Thought I'd never see the day

Pavee point won't be happy haha

Best of luck achieving that when something like Monero exists.

mickdw

skooterblue2 wrote: »

.... and what if the shop/business insist on cash?

I said im going to cash so that will be ok.
If they insiat on card, i will likely use my card if its something i need. Im just eager to keep cash as widely circulating as possible.
We live in a time where our phones and computers are already using our activities to target advertising.
If our spending goes completely electronic, its another major step towards big business controlling us completely.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

I said im going to cash so that will be ok.
If they insiat on card, i will likely use my card if its something i need. Im just eager to keep cash as widely circulating as possible.
We live in a time where our phones and computers are already using our activities to target advertising.
If our spending goes completely electronic, its another major step towards big business controlling us completely.

Has an ad ever forced you to buy anything?

Dravokivich

cannotlogin wrote: »

I don't have a problem with removal of cash from society.

I don't have a need to buy anything that requires a cash payment only.

I can't even think of anything legal that would require a cash payment instead of card.

You never buy or sell anything 2nd hand so?

Lemsiper

Dravokivich wrote: »

You never buy or sell anything 2nd hand so?

You never use PayPal or bank transfer? Or crypto even?

Dravokivich

Murt10 wrote: »

I've no problems with privacy. Revenue know what I earn, so there's nothing much to hide there.

I have accounts in various banks, so any one bank only sees what I want them to see.

Even in a cashless society there will always be small cash transactions. But if the majority of transactions go online then illegal or dubious transactions will be much harder to hide from Revenue and the Gardai.

Another poster mentioned that it might effect poor people disproportionately. I disagree. It may help them realise where they are spending all their money and keeping them poor.

Revolut do a monthly statement where they tell you how much you have spent under various headings: Fuel, groceries coffee etc. Looking through my statement (before Covid) I realised I was spending far more on coffee and doing so more frequently than I realised. So it can actually be useful like that.

How often have you taken out 50 or 100 and a day or two later you hadn't a penny. You wondered wher it was gone, but just couldn't account for it. In a cashless society you'll be able to see exactly wher you spent your money and make adjustments accordingly.

Finally, on the Revenue front, if everyone was paying their fair share of tax then the tax burden wouldn't be falling so hard on those who have no way of hiding it, and everyone would be paying a lower rate.

Eh... you think people are poor becuase they dont know what they are doing with their money?

RandomViewer

Varik wrote: »

Sterling/ Dollars/ crypto /whatever, they won't be wondering into get the weekly shopping with that. At some point they need it in a form they can use and without cash laundering get's a lot harder.

So Rolexs and iPhone's become currency? Russia had a whole shadow currency in the dollar in the 80 s when the Ruoble was worthless

Robert ninja

Great TED talk on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VB39Jo8mAQ

Murt10 wrote: »

In a cashless society you'll be able to see exactly wher you spent your money and make adjustments accordingly.

I've been using software to assist my budgeting for the last half decade. I use cash whenever possible. One can exist with the other.

Dravokivich

Lemsiper wrote: »

You never use PayPal or bank transfer? Or crypto even?

For ordering online or putting a deposit on a car yeah. But not when I'm going to meet up with someone and either buy something from them, or sell something to them.

Why would I even touch crypto. Its value is speculative while the money in my pocket isnt.

gjim

Derdwerker wrote: »

The removal of cash from society is classicist and problematic to say the least, that effects the lower classes almost exclusively. People from under-funded, in-educated areas often don’t have bank accounts. What are they supposed to do?

Eh, open bank accounts?

RandomViewer

Lemsiper wrote: »

You never use PayPal or bank transfer? Or crypto even?

You land to someone's street to buy a cow or a sheep or a dog and you mention a bank transfer or PayPal, the laughing would be heard for miles

Robert ninja

gjim wrote: »

Eh, open bank accounts?

Banks aren't free. Maybe you're affluent enough not to have even noticed that but some people literally count pennies and live week to week.

skooterblue2

gjim wrote: »

Eh, open bank accounts?

Its getting much harder to open a bank account these days. Dont even start me on my Trading account when I found out my PPS card couldnt be used as ID

RandomViewer

Fxxking card has failed more than once, just failed for no a parent reason, need to keep 30-50 in cash on me just in case

Lemsiper

Dravokivich wrote: »

For ordering online or putting a deposit on a car yeah. But not when I'm going to meet up with someone and either buy something from them, or sell something to them.

Why would I even touch crypto. Its value is speculative while the money in my pocket isnt.

Yeah but what I'm saying these days it so easy to instantly transfer someone the cash from your phone.

With crypto you buy what you need for the transaction and dont hold it, thus not being affected by fluctuations.

Lemsiper

Robert ninja wrote: »

Banks aren't free.

Revolut essentially is.

RandomViewer

skooterblue2 wrote: »

...... as you transition to a cashless society to one of social credits. Where could it go wrong?

Depended what it was, few local small businesses I always paid in cash as I figured they needed cash

Dravokivich

Lemsiper wrote: »

Yeah but what I'm saying these days it so easy to instantly transfer someone the cash from your phone.

With crypto you buy what you need for the transaction and dont hold it, thus not being affected by fluctuations.

If I'm going to meet someone I dont know with an exchange of money, it's going to be an efficient transaction with minimal amount of fuss or confusion. I'm not going to get a phone out and think, nuts the battery is low now. Or I cant get a signal. The money is in my pocket, to go to theirs or from theirs to mine. Bid each other good day and turn heels. Why complicate it?

Lemsiper

RandomViewer wrote: »

You land to someone's street to buy a cow or a sheep or a dog and you mention a bank transfer or PayPal, the laughing would be heard for miles

I've put a deposit on an animal previously using bank transfer and paid the remainder in cash. The silence was deafening.

skooterblue2

Lemsiper wrote: »

Revolut essentially is.

There is NOTHING free in life. There must be some catch. Like Facebook, if the product is free, then the product is you.

Lemsiper

Dravokivich wrote: »

If I'm going to meet someone I dont know with an exchange of money, it's going to be an efficient transaction with minimal amount of fuss or confusion. I'm not going to get a phone out and think, nuts the battery is low now. Or I cant get a signal. The money is in my pocket, to go to theirs or from theirs to mine. Bid each other good day and turn heels. Why complicate it?

You're the one complicating it by adding so many "what ifs".

Obviously you confirm everything is in order prior to you arranged meeting.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

There is NOTHING free in life. There must be some catch. Like Facebook, if the product is free, then the product is you.

What exactly has Facebook stolen from you, or anyone, over the years? Did Mark Zuckerberg break in and take the last few chips off your plate or something?

This tinfoil hattery is always amusing.

Lemsiper

skooterblue2 wrote: »

There is NOTHING free in life. There must be some catch. Like Facebook, if the product is free, then the product is you.

You're right, it isnt free. That's why I said essentially.

Dravokivich

Lemsiper wrote: »

You're the one complicating it by adding so many "what ifs".

Obviously you confirm everything is in order prior to you arranged meeting.

Theres no what ifs with cash. That's why we have it.

skooterblue2

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

What exactly has Facebook stolen from you, or anyone, over the years? Did Mark Zuckerberg break in and take the last few chips off your plate or something?

This tinfoil battery is always amusing.

Facebook has sold information to anyone who would buy it for marketing. I saw this coming and got out as soon as I opted it.

Lemsiper

Dravokivich wrote: »

Theres no what ifs with cash. That's why we have it.

What if you dont have have the correct cash due to haggling?

What if the only ATM in your village is out of order?

These are ifs involving cash.

Experience_day

skooterblue2 wrote: »

There is NOTHING free in life. There must be some catch. Like Facebook, if the product is free, then the product is you.

Places like revolut are burning cash to be the winners. PE has been pumping it in for the next winners...

El Tarangu

The benefits of getting rid of cash outweigh the drawbacks

Experience_day wrote: »

And if the systems ever go down....we're all banjaxed? If large institutions start disagreeing with financial decisions and cut off access to credit?

Unless you currently keep all of your money under the mattress, the situation such as the above would adversely affect you anyway, cashless society or not.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Its about control and your right to own wealth. You are trusting your wealth completely to the state. It is happening gradually where you own less and less property and you are losing your rights.

Even you were to keep your money in cash, it would still go up and down in value according to inflation - the government (well, the EU) could go for another round of quantitative easing, and your cash would be worth less overnight - its value is still at the mercy of the state.

Derdwerker wrote: »

The removal of cash from society is classicist and problematic to say the least, that effects the lower classes almost exclusively.

Robert ninja wrote: »

Banks aren't free. Maybe you're affluent enough not to have even noticed that but some people literally count pennies and live week to week.

Underbanked people are a concern - the answer is to make some form of banking accessible to all - not to have people working cash-in-hand, carting all of their savings around with them with the risk of it being robbed, etc.

skooterblue2

Lemsiper wrote: »

You're right, it isnt free. That's why I said essentially.

I am one of the "Boomers" so I have only heard of these things this week, and the phrase boomer too. As soon as I get working again I will be stacking Silver and Gold.

RandomViewer

Lemsiper wrote: »

You're the one complicating it by adding so many "what ifs".

Obviously you confirm everything is in order prior to you arranged meeting.

Real world scenario, driving along, see item for sale along road, buy it ,pay money job done, not ever thing comes from a shop

Lemsiper

RandomViewer wrote: »

Real world scenario, driving along, see item for sale along road, buy it ,pay money job done, not ever thing comes from a shop

Ok sound. You're missing the point by creating a very specific narrative.

I've personally never been in that situation as I dont impulse buy.

Dravokivich

Lemsiper wrote: »

What if you dont have have the correct cash due to haggling?

What if the only ATM in your village is out of order?

These are ifs involving cash.

What are you on about, usually that's all done before meeting someone. You know what you're going to get and for how much.

How does technology make it any easier? If an atm was offline, theres usually one right beside it, or in a spar/centra nearby.

Why shouldn't we use cash? I still dont see the benefit for discouraging the simplest and least complex means of bartering.

Gatling

Don't need it ,

Cashless makes more sense and cash is feffing disgusting it's either covered in god knows how much bacteria or its been some yokes sweaty droopy bra ,

My other half works for a bank and the stories she comes home with about where or what the cash was being taken out of a persons bra and jocks sick

peasant

Not normally a conspiracy theorist but ...

The only way to safeguard against peoples' savings being wiped out instantly by a hostile power at the push of a button is the right and the freedom of hiding them in cash under your mattress if you so desire.
As long as that potential exists, cash money will always be worth something (even if not its nominal value).

Electronic figures in electronic accounts can be stolen / deleted by anyone and hence are worthless in reality, especially so once all cash has disappeared.

Lemsiper

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am one of the "Boomers" so I have only heard of these things this week, and the phrase boomer too. As soon as I get working again I will be stacking Silver and Gold.

I'd check it out for sure. Wifes parents are "Boomers" and exclusively use revolut.

Good shout on the precious metals though.

RandomViewer

Lemsiper wrote: »

Ok sound. You're missing the point by creating a very specific narrative.

I've personally never been in that situation as I dont impulse buy.

So you want to remove cash but have no knowledge of how most people actually use it?

skooterblue2

Lemsiper wrote: »

Wifes parents are "Boomers" and exclusively use revolut.

Whats a "Boomer"? I thought it was anyone who was out of touch that was over 30?

Lemsiper

Dravokivich wrote: »

What are you on about, usually that's all done before meeting someone. You know what you're going to get and for how much.

How does technology make it any easier? If an atm was offline, theres usually one right beside it, or in a spar/centra nearby.

Why shouldn't we use cash? I still dont see the benefit for discouraging the simplest and least complex means of bartering.

Exactly you arrange your cash in advance. Just like you arrange the necessaries of an electronic transaction beforehand.

I agree the we should not move completely away from cash but I don't agree the cashless transaction are any more of an inconvenience.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

What are you on about, usually that's all done before meeting someone. You know what you're going to get and for how much.

How does technology make it any easier? If an atm was offline, theres usually one right beside it, or in a spar/centra nearby.

Why shouldn't we use cash? I still dont see the benefit for discouraging the simplest and least complex means of bartering.

That never happens.

Lemsiper

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Whats a "Boomer"? I thought it was anyone who was out of touch that was over 30?

Slang for magic mushrooms where I'm from.

Lemsiper

RandomViewer wrote: »

So you want to remove cash but have no knowledge of how most people actually use it?

No, as I said I dont want to remove cash.

I'm merely highlighting how easy and convenient cashless transactions are present day.

meeeeh

All this type of threads actually show us is that people with Revolout accounts like to tell everyone that they have a Revolout account. A lot.