€30 million for 61 apartments

tobefrank321

Great value for money for the taxpayer.

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/cairn-homes-agrees-30m-deal-to-sell-61-apartments-to-council-on-former-rte-lands-in-donnybrook-39260558.html

472,000 for a 1 bed apartment. Not even a family home.

NSAman

Cairn Homes are obviously happy..... why wouldn't they be!

super_furry

It's in Donnybrook, Dublin 4 - one of the most expensive parcels of land in the country.

I'm actually impressed that there will be social housing units in the development now and that a proper mix of people will be housed there, rather than just shunting the social elements out to the usual dumping grounds.

Mrs OBumble

How many people eligible for social housing actually want to live alongside the denizens of D4, I wonder.

Spanish Eyes

The neighbours paying top dollar might not be too impressed with this move. Can you blame them?

Eh where are you living Anto, oh down the road in Donnybrook Montrose yah bud, it's brill. Rent? what's that, everyone else pays for it for me bar a little bit. Great mixing with the mover iners from all countries. Great mix. Ha ha all those of you who save and buy your own. Why would you bother bro? They are the mugs. LOL.

Anyway, apart from that, it does not seem to be good value for money now, does it?

punisher5112

Pure madness.....

Buy property or land on outskirts or he'll let those not working and never will move two or three counties away from the capital.


I've worked since 15 and that's exactly what I had to do in order to get away from renting which was costing a fortune and not letting us save to buy.

Sick of listening to the agh I need to be close to my ma or sister or brother or the babies daddies yada yada....


We actually need to look at actually getting a good deal and saving the tax payer a fortune.

With covid I'm surprised they have the money.

mgbgt1978

So, all the 'Part V' Apts are going to be in one particular Block....
....Cairn are probably right now adding 30% on to the selling price of Apts furthest away from this Block

SEPT 23 1989

A Council tenant with their head screwed on could pick that up for 190k after ten years living there

Nice investment

punisher5112

I really really shouldn't have listened to my parents and should have never bothered.....

I'd be housed, med card, fuel allowance, Christmas bonus, ft for public transport and if I were a lucky one be housed along one of the best bus routes to the city, beside a huge hospital and shops and only a short distance from the capital.....

I'm sure I've left out other perks but wow how backwards this country really is and it shows it when you can see those that never worked have at least one car out front and usually more.

bigroad

500k apartment for 20 quid a week is that how it works out.

colm_mcm

At least this will hit the property prices in the area


This is bonkers, same story in Dundrum. Where’s the incentive for anyone to get off their arse and work?

Yeah, I know, not all social housing is blah blah blah

punisher5112

colm_mcm wrote: »

At least this will hit the property prices in the area


This is bonkers, same story in Dundrum. Where’s the incentive for anyone to get off their arse and work?

Yeah, I know, not all social housing is blah blah blah

Maggie's new home maybe so she can be close to Miriam and them other moronic attention seekers....

Fred Cryton

Totally crazy. 500,000 a unit for social housing!!!

Why do these people need to be in the city centre?? We could build 2 to 3 times the number of units for the same money outside the M50.

How many times does it have to be said...integration doesn't work. Complete separation needed and wanted. We won't be inviting Jacinta around for dinner, never going to happen.

Signore Fancy Pants

€30,000,000?

Be grand, wont take the tenants long to pay it back.

The majority are one-bedroom apartments.

The apartments put forward by Cairn are made up of 37 one-bedroom apartments and 24 two bed apartments.

A spokeswoman for Cairn Homes confirmed on Thursday that last year the company sold 133 homes under Part V to local authorities at an average selling price of €224,000 - which translates to a total of €29.79m.

224,000 is an excellent price for the council.

colm_mcm

mariaalice wrote: »

The majority are one-bedroom apartments.

The apartments put forward by Cairn are made up of 37 one-bedroom apartments and 24 two bed apartments.

A spokeswoman for Cairn Homes confirmed on Thursday that last year the company sold 133 homes under Part V to local authorities at an average selling price of €224,000 - which translates to a total of €29.79m.

224,000 is an excellent price for the council.

Different properties to the ones in question.

mgbgt1978

@mariaalice ;But, this thread concerns €30 million for 61 apartments ???

James Brown

punisher5112 wrote: »

Pure madness.....

Buy property or land on outskirts or he'll let those not working and never will move two or three counties away from the capital.


I've worked since 15 and that's exactly what I had to do in order to get away from renting which was costing a fortune and not letting us save to buy.

Sick of listening to the agh I need to be close to my ma or sister or brother or the babies daddies yada yada....


We actually need to look at actually getting a good deal and saving the tax payer a fortune.

With covid I'm surprised they have the money.

punisher5112 wrote: »

I really really shouldn't have listened to my parents and should have never bothered.....

I'd be housed, med card, fuel allowance, Christmas bonus, ft for public transport and if I were a lucky one be housed along one of the best bus routes to the city, beside a huge hospital and shops and only a short distance from the capital.....

I'm sure I've left out other perks but wow how backwards this country really is and it shows it when you can see those that never worked have at least one car out front and usually more.

Such cliche waffle.

If you are eligible for social housing, where it's allocated and how much similar are in the same area doesn't get to be your decision. That's on the LA working under government policy. Also it's a side effect of the PPP thing.
More and more working tax payers are becoming in need of state aid and fewer and fewer will be ever able to buy, so get use to it, the numbers will be growing.

The state should be building standard housing and renting it out or selling it at affordable rates.
As for dem in arrears, they are housed either way.

jimmycrackcorm

super_furry wrote: »

It's in Donnybrook, Dublin 4 - one of the most expensive parcels of land in the country.

I'm actually impressed that there will be social housing units in the development now and that a proper mix of people will be housed there, rather than just shunting the social elements out to the usual dumping grounds.

Why not shunt the social elements out to the usual dumping grounds; where for the same money, the council could house 2 -3 times as many families?

For those who will immediately point out the likely ghettoization, then the answer is to kick out people with anti-social behaviour, even if it makes them homeless. Also, the savings could be used to provide a mix including low-cost affordable housing for lower-paid workers who don't qualify for direct social welfare.

Whilst the 10% mix ideal is admirable, the concept becomes ridiculous once you verge into expensive housing. Imagine a developer building 10 €1m houses in an estate, but one of them has to go to someone on the dole.

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why not shunt the social elements out to the usual dumping grounds; where for the same money, the council could house 2 -3 times as many families?

For those who will immediately point out the likely ghettoization, then the answer is to kick out people with anti-social behaviour, even if it makes them homeless. Also, the savings could be used to provide a mix including low-cost affordable housing for lower-paid workers who don't qualify for direct social welfare.

Whilst the 10% mix ideal is admirable, the concept becomes ridiculous once you verge into expensive housing. Imagine a developer building 10 €1m houses in an estate, but one of them has to go to someone on the dole.

I agree with some of what you say but city living shouldn't be the preserve of the wealthy IMO. Many of these fashionable spots are built over 'regenerated' council estates.

enricoh

Maybe someone should whisper in the government's ear that we're a little bit bankrupt!!

salmocab

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A Council tenant with their head screwed on could pick that up for 190k after ten years living there

Nice investment

I think there is a new system in place, it’s a different setup, I know someone who moved into the development in Dundrum and it’s some 25 year contract. Not sure of the details but from what he said it’s not like the old system.

punisher5112

Bowie wrote: »

I agree with some of what you say but city living shouldn't be the preserve of the wealthy IMO. Many of these fashionable spots are built over 'regenerated' council estates.

Rte and D4 ain't no council reclaimed lands....

I find it beyond ridiculous that rte which was state owned land should ever have been sold off ...

Yes they need money, but what will they do next year when they need the exact same amount or the year after etc etc.

punisher5112

salmocab wrote: »

I think there is a new system in place, it’s a different setup, I know someone who moved into the development in Dundrum and it’s some 25 year contract. Not sure of the details but from what he said it’s not like the old system.

Yeah it's going to cost us more and don't forget the management fees, bins etc... Sinking fund also would be another.

Fred Cryton

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How many people eligible for social housing actually want to live alongside the denizens of D4, I wonder.

Perhaps you should be more grateful to the people of D4, D6 etc for paying the taxes which finance these homes. A little gratitude please from the welfare class would be nice, for once.

NegativeCreep

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Perhaps you should be more grateful to the people of D4, D6 etc for paying the taxes which finance these homes. A little gratitude please from the welfare class would be nice, for once.

Only people who live in D4 and D6 have jobs? I live in Blanchardstown and pay the highest rate of tax so contribute the same amount as you. Get over yourself.

You guys do realise that decent working people have bought and live in their own houses all over the city (and the country) and don’t necessarily want social housing being thrown up beside them either? But that’s tough, they get built anyway, crying won’t stop it.

James Brown

Actually if similar, 25 year lease means the tax payer is locked in to pay rent and after the 25 years I imagine the ownership remains with the private owner/builder. Excellent fiscal conservatism from Fine Gael. A lose lose for both the tax paper and any tenants hoping to buy.
As long as we don't build foreva homes right lads? :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

If DCC are clever they will sell these apartments. They can buy 3 bed homes in other areas for less.

ThunbergsAreGo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If DCC are clever they will sell these apartments. They can buy 3 bed homes in other areas for less.

Doubt they can

Seems like madness, why do people in social housing need to live a stones throw from town?

Could house double the number of people and still be in commuting distance of town

listermint

The usual to and fro crap talk from the usual suspects

Meanwhile mixing socially provided housing with normal units is common in the continent where a lawyer living next door to a plumber in say Vienna would be fine.

But here in the Cosmopolitan Dublin the snobby gits look down on working people and claim they get everything for quite literally free.

It's boring now lads. Absolutely boring.

listermint

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Doubt they can

Seems like madness, why do people in social housing need to live a stones throw from town?

Could house double the number of people and still be in commuting distance of town

I'd assume to serve your arse your coffee.

ThunbergsAreGo

listermint wrote: »

I'd assume to serve your arse your coffee.

No to have less people struggling to find a home, and ideally less families, for whom a 2 bed is not suitable

listermint

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

No to have less people struggling to find a home

This makes no sense what so ever.

tobefrank321

listermint wrote: »

The usual to and fro crap talk from the usual suspects

Meanwhile mixing socially provided housing with normal units is common in the continent where a lawyer living next door to a plumber in say Vienna would be fine.

But here in the Cosmopolitan Dublin the snobby gits look down on working people and claim they get everything for quite literally free.

It's boring now lads. Absolutely boring.

472k for 1 bed apartment. Nothing to do with who lives where. Or snobbery. Do you think its value for the taxpayer? It won't even accomodate a family.

Where do we draw the line? €1 million for social houses? On Killiney Hill perhaps? Just to prove we can mix the super rich with the poor? That seems to be what you are advocating.

We're broke and we are forking out 472k for a 1 bed apartment. At a time when we had one of the lowest ICU bed ratios in Europe. I know which one we should have prioritised.

Had Dublin City Council waited a year they would have got these apartments for substantially less. Instead they went in at the very top of the market.

Its completely indefensible.

tobefrank321

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

No to have less people struggling to find a home, and ideally less families, for whom a 2 bed is not suitable

Exactly. These apartments won't remove one family from the housing waiting list.

Woke Hogan

listermint wrote: »

The usual to and fro crap talk from the usual suspects

Meanwhile mixing socially provided housing with normal units is common in the continent where a lawyer living next door to a plumber in say Vienna would be fine.

But here in the Cosmopolitan Dublin the snobby gits look down on working people and claim they get everything for quite literally free.

It's boring now lads. Absolutely boring.

The idea of working and living next to poor people is completely anathema to the elites, and they must be delighted that they have so many useful idiots on the internet to be their proxy-nimbyists.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why not shunt the social elements out to the usual dumping grounds; where for the same money, the council could house 2 -3 times as many families?

For those who will immediately point out the likely ghettoization, then the answer is to kick out people with anti-social behaviour, even if it makes them homeless. Also, the savings could be used to provide a mix including low-cost affordable housing for lower-paid workers who don't qualify for direct social welfare.

What you're suggesting is that ghettoisation mistakes from the past are not only repeated but absolutely no preventative measures are taken to prevent social issues and to actually end up rendering people homeless. All so millionaires don't have to bump into working class people in Spar.

Pkiernan

It's only going to be 6 units given to Job "So Called" Seekers though?

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Exactly. These apartments won't remove one family from the housing waiting list.

Yes but they will remove a lot of single older people and those with special needs or disabilities from the housing list.

Does anyone one watch supper garden, all the gardens are being done in a small social housing development in North Dublin, normal average people what are people afraid is going to happen if DCC acquire social housing in D4.

Del2005

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A Council tenant with their head screwed on could pick that up for 190k after ten years living there

Nice investment

The biggest mistake with our housing was selling social housing to the tenants. If they can afford to buy a property then they should buy a property not be gifted social housing at a massive discount after paying a token rent of a set percentage of their income, which isn't even paid by a lot of them.


What investment has a social housing tenant made to a property? Any work is done by the council.

WallyGUFC

listermint wrote: »

The usual to and fro crap talk from the usual suspects

Meanwhile mixing socially provided housing with normal units is common in the continent where a lawyer living next door to a plumber in say Vienna would be fine.

But here in the Cosmopolitan Dublin the snobby gits look down on working people and claim they get everything for quite literally free.

It's boring now lads. Absolutely boring.

Nobody has a problem with the plumber living beside the lawyer. I'd say the issue is with the perennially-unemployed-by-choice-with-3 sprogs-from-3-different-baby-daddies living beside the lawyer at miniscule rent. Where is the incentive to work?

tobefrank321

mariaalice wrote: »

Yes but they will remove a lot of single older people and those with special needs or disabilities from the housing list.

Do you honestly think these apartments are suitable for someone with special needs, disabilities or the elderly? Or families?
They aren't suitable for anyone.
This is a terrible deal all around.

And it has nothing to do with living in an upmarket area or not.

Its about suitable accomodation.

The taxpayer has been screwed.

We have to prioritise building houses for the homeless families living in hotel accomodation and in particular getting children out of this accomodation.

tobefrank321

mariaalice wrote: »

Does anyone one watch supper garden, all the gardens are being done in a small social housing development in North Dublin, normal average people what are people afraid is going to happen if DCC acquire social housing in D4.

That social housing model looks great and we should be encouraging the building of more houses. 1 bed apartments are not a good idea for numerous reasons. Friends, relatives or children cannot stay over. And the living space is miniscule. 472k for a 1 bed apartment is sheer lunacy, regardless of background and even bigger lunacy now that prices are heading south.

SEPT 23 1989

Del2005 wrote: »

The biggest mistake with our housing was selling social housing to the tenants. If they can afford to buy a property then they should buy a property not be gifted social housing at a massive discount after paying a token rent of a set percentage of their income, which isn't even paid by a lot of them.


What investment has a social housing tenant made to a property? Any work is done by the council.

I don't agree drive around a council estate and look at the difference between houses that tenants bought and those who didn't

you take a lot more pride in something that you own

unless you are up to date with rent and behave yourself in an area you can forget buying the house off them

is that not a good thing for society?

Thelonious Monk

I find this kind of thing really unfair, and I'm pro social housing in general. I am lucky to have a house, but all I could afford was a terrace 2 bed in a rough enough area traditionally, quiet enough now though but I actually heard gunshots one new years eve a couple of years ago when someone was gunned down at night about 200m down the road.
So why are people given social housing in the most sought after areas in the city? I could never in a million years live there and I'd love to, instead of drab suburbia.
A girl I was seeing a while back had a lovely apartment in the IFSC that she bought during the last downturn, probably worth about 600k now, but her noisiest neighbours with unruly kids running around the place got the places for free.
It's like rubbing it in our faces.

Thelonious Monk

Bowie wrote: »

I agree with some of what you say but city living shouldn't be the preserve of the wealthy IMO. Many of these fashionable spots are built over 'regenerated' council estates.

So it should be for the poor and those that don't work at all, or the really wealthy? What about someone like me or many of my friends on about 40k?

ettravel

my cousin does work for a council in DUblin.

they have bought on behalf of the authorities over 800 houses in private housing estates in the dublin area to be used as social housing units.

also purchased whole turn key developments from developers as soon as planning granted.

told me about the numerous housing associations that are and are currently buying up everything and paying crazy prices for the units.

these housing associations get the money from the state , buy the units above market value and then rent the units back to the state at current rental rents.
crazy stuff.

Kermit.de.frog

The biggest issue with this is that living in good areas should be an aspiration, something to aim for for a better life.

That aspiration appears to have been removed recently which means yet less incentive to get off your hole.

It's not a great state of affairs really. If you do things right, work hard, are responsible then you shouldn't be threatened with your life being turned upside down by a dysfunctional and out of control family being put next door.

It's morally wrong in my view.

NegativeCreep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The biggest issue with this is that living in good areas should be an aspiration, something to aim for for a better life.

That aspiration appears to have been removed recently which means yet less incentive to get off your hole.

It's not a great state of affairs really. If you do things right, work hard, are responsible then you shouldn't be threatened with your life being turned upside down by a dysfunctional and out of control family being put next door.

It's morally wrong in my view.

People do things right and work and live all over the city, not just in D4 and areas like it. I agree with your point. No one should have to work hard to buy their own home and then have people placed beside them who worked for nothing and don’t give a damn about the area or anyone else but themselves. At least if these people are housed in affluent areas, something might be done to tackle the issue quicker.

Idbatterim

punisher5112 wrote: »

I really really shouldn't have listened to my parents and should have never bothered.....

I'd be housed, med card, fuel allowance, Christmas bonus, ft for public transport and if I were a lucky one be housed along one of the best bus routes to the city, beside a huge hospital and shops and only a short distance from the capital.....

I'm sure I've left out other perks but wow how backwards this country really is and it shows it when you can see those that never worked have at least one car out front and usually more.

Yeah paid for by you and I, and most on this thread who could never afford those apartments themselves. Many paying a marginal tax rate of fifty percent over a pitance. Their " rent" if they bother paying it, wouldn't even cover the management fee. Nobody in their right mind would rent orvlive in same block as the social housing. Hence in dundrum and now here, they are all in the same block. I hope they left all the communal areas bare concrete, no lifts etc...

They should have their own entrance into the property. You know how long you need to be on the housing lost to get housed ? Easily over a decade. I bet many of us here wish we crystal ball over a decade ago to put our names down on the list? Did you see top location, luxury apartments being handed out back then for free? No either did I, my imagination was nowhere near good enough. ! Unless you're a single mother and you can use the kids as blackmail. Just show up in the local guards station, wait for press attention and rte will do the rest for you...

Idbatterim

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The biggest issue with this is that living in good areas should be an aspiration, something to aim for for a better life.

That aspiration appears to have been removed recently which means yet less incentive to get off your hole.

It's not a great state of affairs really. If you do things right, work hard, are responsible then you shouldn't be threatened with your life being turned upside down by a dysfunctional and out of control family being put next door.

It's morally wrong in my view.

Yeah you have a serious issue on your hands. No authority will do anything about any amount of Anti social behaviour. You'll be living beside animals and totally fcuked