Landlord not sharing address and Tenancy Notice Period

Dav010

10pennymixup wrote: »

So an old granny, who gets their son to act as an agent and lets out their house on their behalf when they move in to sheltered accommodation. Both they and their son are guilty of a criminal offence?

I can’t make head nor tail of CH’s opinion either, I can understand someone claiming to be a Letting Agent or who’s business is property letting having to be licensed, but nothing CH has posted shows that a LL has to authorise a Letting Agent to act on their behalf during the tenancy.

I’m still waiting on his link to show that a “person” referred to in the RTA who acts on behalf of the LL during the tenancy has to be licensed Property Service Provider, neither the RTA nor the PSR Act refer to it, so I suspect I’ll never see it.

10pennymixup

Dav010 wrote: »

I can’t make head nor tail of CH’s opinion either, I can understand someone claiming to be a Letting Agent or who’s business is property letting having to be licensed, but nothing CH has posted shows that a LL has to authorise a Letting Agent to act on their behalf during the tenancy.

I’m still waiting on his link to show that a “person” referred to in the RTA who acts on behalf of the LL during the tenancy has to be licensed Property Service Provider, neither the RTA nor the PSR Act refer to it, so I suspect I’ll never see it.

Yes. It just doesn't sound logical.

I once thought that anyone acting professionally, as in receiving money for their services might have to licensed, but I could be wrong.

Dav010

10pennymixup wrote: »

Yes. It just doesn't sound logical.

I once thought that anyone acting professionally, as in receiving money for their services might have to licensed, but I could be wrong.

He seems to be certain that when the LL authorises a person to act on their behalf during a tenancy, legally that person has to be a Property Service Provider, so say someone living abroad couldn’t authorise their brother/sister to communicate with the tenant or deal with any problems which arise. Never heard of it before myself, the Residential Tenancies Act doesn’t mention it, the RTB don’t mention it, the Property Services Regulation Act doesn’t mention it, so all we can hope for is that Claw Hammer links to the legislation which states the LL has to use a PSP during the tenancy.

Personally, I think he is confusing the regulations on EAs/Auctiioneers etc needing to be licensed to carry on the business of property service, but of course that does not mean a LL has to nominate one to act on their behalf during the tenancy.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If a landlord does nominate an agent it would be illegal for a landlord to nominate a person who is not entitled to act as such

10pennymixup

Yeah, it's there in the PSRA's guide to becoming a service provider:

“property service” means the provision, for consideration (payment), in the
State, in respect of property located within or outside the State, of
any of the following—

So it looks like there's no problem with such a scenario. But CH seems so adamant I genuinely interested to hear what they have to say.

Dav010

10pennymixup wrote: »

Yeah, it's there in the PSRA's guide to becoming a service provider:

“property service” means the provision, for consideration (payment), in the
State, in respect of property located within or outside the State, of
any of the following—

You might have more luckðŸ˜

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

You might have more luckðŸ˜

The issue is someone authorised to act. Someone who does it for free or a licensed agent. Someone doing it for free is unlikely to take on the full responsibilities and will only give thye landlord a hand rather than act as a fully empowered agent.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The issue is someone authorised to act. Someone who does it for free or a licensed agent. Someone doing it for free is unlikely to take on the full responsibilities and will only give thye landlord a hand rather than act as a fully empowered agent.

The LL is free to choose whether to employ a licensed EA, or authorise cousin John to act on his/her behalf, you have yet to show that it would be illegal to authorise John as the “person” referred to in the RTA. Cousin John could be fully empowered to give the Landlord a hand by being authorised to act on his/her behalf during the tenancy. Not every LL wants to employ an EA to take on “the full responsibilities” as their Agent, and it is not illegal to have someone else do it.

Again, I suspect you are confusing the illegality of someone claiming to be a professional property service provider or in the business of providing that service. You have yet to show why it would be illegal for a LL to authorise a “person” to act on their behalf, please put up the link.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

The LL is free to choose whether to employ a licensed EA, or authorise cousin John to act on his/her behalf, you have yet to show that it would be illegal to authorise John as the “person” referred to in the RTA. Cousin John could be fully empowered to give the Landlord a hand by being authorised to act on his/her behalf during the tenancy. Not every LL wants to employ an EA to take on “the full responsibilities” as their Agent, and it is not illegal to have someone else do it.

Again, I suspect you are confusing the illegality of someone claiming to be a professional property service provider or in the business of providing that service. You have yet to show why it would be illegal for a LL to authorise a “person” to act on their behalf, please put up the link.

Provided cousin John is not being paid he can give a hand. The question is whether is is then a duly appointed agent with responsibilites such as accepting notices or deducting witholding tax,
If the landlord pays someone other than a licensed agent to act on their behalf the landlord is party to an illegal contract and is an accessory to a criminal offence.
the RTA talks about a duly authorised agent, not a cousin obliging the LL in some way.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Provided cousin John is not being paid he can give a hand. The question is whether is is then a duly appointed agent with responsibilites such as accepting notices or deducting witholding tax,
If the landlord pays someone other than a licensed agent to act on their behalf the landlord is party to an illegal contract and is an accessory to a criminal offence.
the RTA talks about a duly authorised agent, not a cousin obliging the LL in some way.

What rubbish are you posting?

First you said there were restrictions on who a LL could authorise to act on their behalf, then it was illegal to authorise anyone who isn’t a licensed PSP, now the LL is an accessory to a criminal offence, all rubbish as the Residential Tenancies Act states a LL can authorise a “person” to act on their behalf. Here it is again:

(e) notify the tenant of the name of the person, if any, (the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy for the time being,

Could you please, for hopefully the last time, link to the legislation which says that the authorised person must be a paid Property Service Provider. Show me also where only a “paid” person whom the LL authorised to act on their behalf can accept notice.

If you show me that, I will apologise for the way I misinterpreted the RTA, but please, don’t keep posting rubbish because you won’t admit you got it wrong.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

What rubbish are you posting?

First you said there were restrictions on who a LL could authorise to act on their behalf, then it was illegal to authorise anyone who isn’t a licensed PSP, now the LL is an accessory to a criminal offence, all rubbish as the Residential Tenancies Act states a LL can authorise a “person” to act on their behalf. Here it is again:

(e) notify the tenant of the name of the person, if any, (the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy for the time being,

Could you please, for hopefully the last time, link to the legislation which says that the authorised person must be a paid Property Service Provider. Show me also where only a “paid” person whom the LL authorised to act on their behalf can accept notice.

You are obviously trolling. I have linked the legislation. Either a freebie or an authorised agent can be used. How can a freebie be duly authorised? Accepting notice on behalf of another is the provision of a property service. Such a service is regulated by law whether you like it or not.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You are obviously trolling. I have linked the legislation. Either a freebie or an authorised agent can be used. How can a freebie be duly authorised? Accepting notice on behalf of another is the provision of a property service. Such a service is regulated by law whether you like it or not.

Finally, you accept both a freebie and a licensed agent can be used, and that is not a criminal offence as you claimed.

A LL can “duly authorise” a freebie by written consent.

Where does it say a person authorised by the LL to act on their behalf cannot accept a notice?

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

Finally, you accept both a freebie and a licensed agent can be used, and that is not a criminal offence as you claimed.

A LL can “duly authorise” a freebie by written consent.

Where does it say a person authorised by the LL to act on their behalf cannot accept a notice?

It is an offence to pay or agree to pay someone who is not an authorised agent.

Someone has to be duly authorised, not authorised.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is an offence to pay or agree to pay someone who is not an authorised agent.

Someone has to be duly authorised, not authorised.

Which does this say “authorised” or “duly authorised”?

e) notify the tenant of the name of the person, if any, (the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy for the time being,

I’m not a solicitor, but a duly authorized agent means a person who is authorized by written consent or by law to act on behalf of an owner or operator.

You have yet to show why a “person” authorised by the LL cannot accept notice.

10pennymixup

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Anybody acting as an agent must have a license.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

.............. If a landlord does nominate an agent it would be illegal for a landlord to nominate a person who is not entitled to act as such..............

Claw Hammer wrote: »

.......A person who provides a property service must be licensed. If a landlord engages an unlicensed person the landlord is conspiring to commit a criminal offence....... .

.

A Freebie, that's a term that has never been attributed to me before

I was one of those freebies that was appointed by the Landlord to provide such services as:

• showing a house,
• vetting prospective tenants
• collecting security deposits and first months rents in cash
• keeping an eye on rent payments
• makes repairs or organises them with tradespeople
• sending rent arrears notices
• receiving and sending termination notices,
• doing walk throughs at tenancy termination
• returning deposits
• oh and when registering the tenancy with the RTB filling in the section headed "agent" with my name.

So not a freebie then..........but an agent (until very recently when the properties were sold, in which I was also involved in).

And because I don't take a penny from my elderly mother and do it in conjunction with being a landlord with my own properties, I didn't need to have a license.

Or at least I didn't think I did until you starting saying otherwise.

Graham

Mod Note

Claw Hammer, if you have a link to an authoritative source stating an unpaid agent cannot accept notice on behalf of a landlord, post it. Otherwise, stop stating it as fact.

FYI, your personal interpretation of authoritative sources is not the same thing.

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