BB signal to garden cabin

helimachoptor

Hi folks, due to Covid 19, myself & wife will be working from home for the foreseeable.
We've got a garden cabin on the way and thats going down the bottom of the garden.

Just reading some of the other threads here.

We're going to be running an electrical cable to the shed from the house (electrician doing this)

Which makes more sense

1) to run an cat6 cable along in a protected run to the cabin and terminate with a router there?
2) use a set of TP links?
3) something else

On FTTC, 80-100mb, both myself and wife on video calls a lot of the day.

Thanks

smuggler.ie

Once running power cable, makes sense to get CAT along(even two), consider shielded, to prevent possible cross-talk.
Once cable in, either separate "router" to act as AP(access point) or proper AP. Little switch would provide multiple Ethernet connections if needed.

punisher5112

Definitely as above run cable, you will regret it otherwise.

Gooey Looey

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Once running power cable, makes sense to get CAT along(even two), consider shielded, to prevent possible cross-talk.
Once cable in, either separate "router" to act as AP(access point) or proper AP. Little switch would provide multiple Ethernet connections if needed.

Don't forget if you run shielded cable they need special crimps that ground either end

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EURRDXA/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_KXO0EbXPPCHRR

You also could have problems running cat cable parallel to an electrical cable, it's not recommended

helimachoptor

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Once running power cable, makes sense to get CAT along(even two), consider shielded, to prevent possible cross-talk.
Once cable in, either separate "router" to act as AP(access point) or proper AP. Little switch would provide multiple Ethernet connections if needed.

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Don't forget if you run shielded cable they need special crimps that ground either end

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EURRDXA/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_KXO0EbXPPCHRR


Thanks guys, assume something like this would be fine?
https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-cable/13867-cat6-ftp-shielded-pvc-solid-core-cable.html

helimachoptor

just dont some measuring, with some added tail at the end, I'll need a 50m+ (probably <60M) shielded cable.

Any recommendations?
Most amazon suppliers are 50m, so assume it might need to be a custom request.

DublinDilbert

Electrical wholesalers or the likes of woods communication if your near ballymount. Most wholesalers should have Shielded Twisted Pair, but not sure if you would need to purchase an entire roll. Are you putting it in a duct or burying directly?

https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-cable/22-excel-cat6-utp-external-cable-ldpe-outer-sheath.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7aHhjKrg6QIViu3tCh2UHANZEAAYAiAAEgK7pfD_BwE

https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-bulk-cable/87182-armoured-external-cat6-ftp-solid-cable.html

Gooey Looey

helimachoptor wrote: »

just dont some measuring, with some added tail at the end, I'll need a 50m+ (probably <60M) shielded cable.

Any recommendations?
Most amazon suppliers are 50m, so assume it might need to be a custom request.

Just buy 100m and cut and recrimp

helimachoptor

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Electrical wholesalers or the likes of woods communication if your near ballymount. Most wholesalers should have Shielded Twisted Pair, but not sure if you would need to purchase an entire roll. Are you putting it in a duct or burying directly?

https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-cable/22-excel-cat6-utp-external-cable-ldpe-outer-sheath.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7aHhjKrg6QIViu3tCh2UHANZEAAYAiAAEgK7pfD_BwE

https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-bulk-cable/87182-armoured-external-cat6-ftp-solid-cable.html

Would they put on the RJ45? Just waiting on a friend to see if he has a crimping tool. Will be going by ballymount a few times this week so could get it then.
Most likely a duct.

ted1

Better off running two cables. Just in case one gets damage. Won’t add much to the cost. Also terminate into a wall plate instead off putting a rj45 on the end

helimachoptor

ted1 wrote: »

Better off running two cables. Just in case one gets damage. Won’t add much to the cost. Also terminate into a wall plate instead off putting a rj45 on the end

thanks, didnt even think of either of those

helimachoptor

If i can ask another question.
My router is at the front of the house and running a cable entirely from there to the garden isnt an option.

I have a wifi booster, so my plan would be:

Router > to Booster (wifi) - Cable from Booster to RJ45 Socket (internal wall) - Shielded cable run from there to garden cabin and terminated in socket for an AP.

I've done some tests cabled into the booster while its connected to the router over wifi, ping is about 110Ms, so would expect that to go up to 150? when all legs are in play.

Is there a better solution?

Nelbert

helimachoptor wrote: »

If i can ask another question.
My router is at the front of the house and running a cable entirely from there to the garden isnt an option.

I have a wifi booster, so my plan would be:

Router > to Booster (wifi) - Cable from Booster to RJ45 Socket (internal wall) - Shielded cable run from there to garden cabin and terminated in socket for an AP.

I've done some tests cabled into the booster while its connected to the router over wifi, ping is about 110Ms, so would expect that to go up to 150? when all legs are in play.

Is there a better solution?

The best solution is cable end to end but in the scenario above there should be little difference between plugging a 1m and a 50m cable in to the booster.

If you can at all run a cable (2 ideally) end to end. Failing that this may be the best.

Could you not neatly tack to wall (good cable could be painted over or the duct if you can duct right up to entering house). Should minimise aesthetic issues?

Edit: Other option is powerline adapters if you'll have a socket on same circuit (not sure if this is still required on newer powerline adapters) as cabin? Perhaps others could advise on powerline.

helimachoptor

Nelbert wrote: »

The best solution is cable end to end but in the scenario above there should be little difference between plugging a 1m and a 50m cable in to the booster.

If you can at all run a cable (2 ideally) end to end. Failing that this may be the best.

Could you not neatly tack to wall (good cable could be painted over or the duct if you can duct right up to entering house). Should minimise aesthetic issues?

Edit: Other option is powerline adapters if you'll have a socket on same circuit (not sure if this is still required on newer powerline adapters) as cabin? Perhaps others could advise on powerline.

Tbh need the wife to agree and just the way our house is laid out just makes it awkward to run the cable. Can go with what I proposed and if its causing issues that will make cabling in the house more palatable

diggerdigger

helimachoptor wrote: »

If i can ask another question.
My router is at the front of the house and running a cable entirely from there to the garden isnt an option.

I have a wifi booster, so my plan would be:

Router > to Booster (wifi) - Cable from Booster to RJ45 Socket (internal wall) - Shielded cable run from there to garden cabin and terminated in socket for an AP.

I've done some tests cabled into the booster while its connected to the router over wifi, ping is about 110Ms, so would expect that to go up to 150? when all legs are in play.

Is there a better solution?

I think a mesh setup with powerlink backhaul would be better IMO. Maybe tplink Deco p9 if you want it all in one kit. Alternatively achieve it yourself with a powerlink wap type plug or similar. Using WiFi to get to a cat6 to go out to office is a bit fiddley for multiple video streams. What WiFi bridge you using to get to the back of the hoise.?


But be assured, cat6 direct from switch/router, properly terminated in a wall plate (as many points as you can manage) is a much better solution long term.

krissovo

I have a similar situation at home, used power link initially but its a little unstable and drove me mad at times. Then went for a mesh network and power line so I had a backup option this was 98% reliable but still 2 or 3 times a month I had issues and normally during a really important meeting. Now have CAT 6 which is completely reliable.

Do it right, the situation is not changing anytime soon for most of us.

niallb

You have an opportunity to run cable to the shed now at little extra cost since you're digging and running the duct for electrical cable anyway. Do that bit.

Cat6 is good at dealing with electrical interference. As several people have said, put two of them in and have them terminated to wall boxes. If you just out plugs on the end they'll have far more wear and tear and will fail eventually.

Even if the full setup with the WiFi 'booster' isn't ideal, this is still the best solution for that 50m part of the picture.

Mesh products are likely to be better than any booster you have at the moment, but just to get the signal to the next room and cable the rest of the way. Even a pair of powerline adapters may get a connection from your router to the 50m cable faster than WiFi, but performance is very dependent on your home.

diggerdigger

Don't know your layout, but maybe you could look at running the cat6 straight out to garden near you router in the front, then around to cabin. Often the can be easier routes outside the house to bury/conceal cables? Maybe just a bit more trenching and some trunking (which you have to do for power anyway)?

helimachoptor

diggerdigger wrote: »

I think a mesh setup with powerlink backhaul would be better IMO. Maybe tplink Deco p9 if you want it all in one kit. Alternatively achieve it yourself with a powerlink wap type plug or similar. Using WiFi to get to a cat6 to go out to office is a bit fiddley for multiple video streams. What WiFi bridge you using to get to the back of the hoise.?


But be assured, cat6 direct from switch/router, properly terminated in a wall plate (as many points as you can manage) is a much better solution long term.

I've for a Sky wifi booster thing, but i know I'll need something better.
Tbh, I could probably go powerline from the router to the socket that will go out to the garden cabin, that might be an easer way

Router -> TP Link to Internal Socket -> and this will probably be wrong, but if i change that socket faceplate to one with a RJ45 connection, I assume i can take the ethernet cable from the TP link and plug into the rj45 connection on the faceplate? - > run that out to cabin and terminate.

In the cabin, I was just planning on using an old router as an AP, it has 4 ports rather than a specific switch.

And sorry what is probably a dumb question, but I'm assuming faceplates arent pre-wired?

helimachoptor

krissovo wrote: »

I have a similar situation at home, used power link initially but its a little unstable and drove me mad at times. Then went for a mesh network and power line so I had a backup option this was 98% reliable but still 2 or 3 times a month I had issues and normally during a really important meeting. Now have CAT 6 which is completely reliable.

Do it right, the situation is not changing anytime soon for most of us.

niallb wrote: »

You have an opportunity to run cable to the shed now at little extra cost since you're digging and running the duct for electrical cable anyway. Do that bit.

Cat6 is good at dealing with electrical interference. As several people have said, put two of them in and have them terminated to wall boxes. If you just out plugs on the end they'll have far more wear and tear and will fail eventually.

Even if the full setup with the WiFi 'booster' isn't ideal, this is still the best solution for that 50m part of the picture.

Mesh products are likely to be better than any booster you have at the moment, but just to get the signal to the next room and cable the rest of the way. Even a pair of powerline adapters may get a connection from your router to the 50m cable faster than WiFi, but performance is very dependent on your home.

diggerdigger wrote: »

Don't know your layout, but maybe you could look at running the cat6 straight out to garden near you router in the front, then around to cabin. Often the can be easier routes outside the house to bury/conceal cables? Maybe just a bit more trenching and some trunking (which you have to do for power anyway)?

Thanks all, Digger you've solved it.
so where the router is there is a socket internally, on the outside wall there another socket, so can just run the cable out there and tack externally onto and along the garage over the back of the house and then down to meet where the electrical wire will come out.

Can i run the cat 6 exposed around the house?

diggerdigger

helimachoptor wrote: »

Thanks all, Digger you've solved it.
so where the router is there is a socket internally, on the outside wall there another socket, so can just run the cable out there and tack externally onto and along the garage over the back of the house and then down to meet where the electrical wire will come out.

Can i run the cat 6 exposed around the house?

Yep, up to 100m, but you'll want to keep it tidy. Keep it protected though with trunking, even if shielded. You can put a socket plate on the inside wall, and terminate there, and a corresponding in the cabin. Make sure you get shielded faceplates. I've also seem quad singles for 4 cables ,but don't know if you can get quad shielded.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/deleyCON-CAT-Universal-Network-Socket/dp/B012G6MKKI

A well terminated setup should have no problem supporting 10Gbit. You have headroom for many years I'd wager.

diggerdigger

Also check out armoured cat 6 for the outside run if you think trunking not suitable, or not visually desirable.

helimachoptor

diggerdigger wrote: »

Also check out armoured cat 6 for the outside run if you think trunking not suitable, or not visually desirable.

should have done this, installed and all working fine, but snagged the cable when i trimming back some of the bushes around it and cut it.
Getting fixed today

helimachoptor

Will an electrical wholesaler sell a cat6 junction box?

Gooey Looey

helimachoptor wrote: »

Will an electrical wholesaler sell a cat6 junction box?

Junction box? You cannot split Ethernet. Are you talking about a patch panel?

helimachoptor

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Junction box? You cannot split Ethernet. Are you talking about a patch panel?

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader-Junction-Punch-Style/dp/B01M992GMZ
Something like this.

The cable already had an accident with the garden tool, so that was put in a normal electrical junction box and has worked fine.
I can do this again but though a traditional connector might be easier.

Gooey Looey

helimachoptor wrote: »

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader-Junction-Punch-Style/dp/B01M992GMZ
Something like this.

The cable already had an accident with the garden tool, so that was put in a normal electrical junction box and has worked fine.
I can do this again but though a traditional connector might be easier.

Ah yeah, I forgot you damaged the cable. I doubt you'll find one of those in an electrical wholesalers, just order on Amazon and put it in a plastic enclosure with a waterproof gland, you'll get this in a wholesalers

helimachoptor

Hi folks could do with some help.

Fixed the bb cable earlier.
But I've no Internet.

Im pinging my vf router from the access point but getting a destination unreachable error.

Any ideas?

smuggler.ie

helimachoptor wrote: »

Hi folks could do with some help.

Fixed the bb cable earlier.
But I've no Internet.

Im pinging my vf router from the access point but getting a destination unreachable error.

Any ideas?

If you used that junction box, you got wires correctly? you got wires punched properly?

helimachoptor

smuggler.ie wrote: »

If you used that junction box, you got wires correctly? you got wires punched properly?

Sparks was over (he's a friend) so he did an electrical junction box.

My default gateway when I connect to the AP ie the IP accessing the router management page rather than the ip of my vf router. Is that the problem

helimachoptor

The port on my router that I have a cable connected to an ethernet wall port is flashing as if there's an active connection

helimachoptor

the light on the router seems to randomly fire, re-punched the wall port to make sure it wasn't that. So assume its an issue with the cable join.

Will pick this up tomorrow or Friday
https://www.cablemonkey.ie/cat6-accessories/14270-cat6-inline-idc-coupler-box.html?search_query=couplers&results=5

And if that doesn't fix it, I'll get a new cable.

diggerdigger

I'd avoid the junction if at all possible, because you're unlikely to get a full speed over any significant length of run.

Over time, pay attention to kinks in the cable running outside, I expect the cable would deteriorate faster exposed to the elements. Particular if tight around corners, etc.

What type of AP? Did it work before? Is it in bridge mode?

smuggler.ie

helimachoptor wrote: »

My default gateway when I connect to the AP ie the IP accessing the router management page rather than the ip of my vf router. Is that the problem

Your CMD show 172.31.55.hhh range !!! Where is it coming from, AP ?

Unless you have router with >3 interfaces and specific config, using second "router" as AP, it should be configured with static LAN IP in same range as your "main" router (like 192.168.1.254) and DHCP(both v4 and v6) disabled.

helimachoptor

diggerdigger wrote: »

I'd avoid the junction if at all possible, because you're unlikely to get a full speed over any significant length of run.

Over time, pay attention to kinks in the cable running outside, I expect the cable would deteriorate faster exposed to the elements. Particular if tight around corners, etc.

What type of AP? Did it work before? Is it in bridge mode?

I'll try the junction box, I can pick it up handy. If not I'll for a new cable.

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Your CMD show 172.31.55.hhh range !!! Where is it coming from, AP ?

Unless you have router with >3 interfaces and specific config, using second "router" as AP, it should be configured with static LAN IP in same range as your "main" router (like 192.168.1.254) and DHCP(both v4 and v6) disabled.

Yeah that's the AP's default IP (to get to the router management page)
Yeah it was working fine (til the cable cut), but i cant ping the VF router so i assume its not getting assigned the IP

smuggler.ie

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yeah that's the AP's default IP (to get to the router management page)
Yeah it was working fine (til the cable cut), but i cant ping the VF router so i assume its not getting assigned the IP

This is you problem
They could not work in tandem with different networks assigned , like... ever.

It has to be on same 192.168.1.hhh IP

1. Change LAN IP on it to 192.168.1.254
2. Disable DHCP

helimachoptor

smuggler.ie wrote: »

This is you problem
They could not work in tandem with different networks assigned , like... ever.

It has to be on same 192.168.1.hhh IP

1. Change LAN IP on it to 192.168.1.254
2. Disable DHCP

I wont be home til lunch time, but in the AP router management page i had the IP set to 192.168.1.2.

Wil give it a try and post back

smuggler.ie

helimachoptor wrote: »

I wont be home til lunch time, but in the AP router management page i had the IP set to 192.168.1.2.

Wil give it a try and post back

This would be right, but where 172.31.55.128 come from?
Are you using VPN ? This would explain.

helimachoptor

smuggler.ie wrote: »

This would be right, but where 172.31.55.128 come from?
Are you using VPN ? This would explain.

No, I can re-set the AP and then set it back to AP mode and go through the process again.
The hardware is from the company i work for and that's the router IP. I just assume that was coming back on the ipconfig because there's no connection to the VF router.

helimachoptor

1) So took one of the other devices home with me.
When i plug it in (Lan port on VF router to WAN port on the device that is still in router mode) I get the below.
So i know "internet" is getting the device

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : lan
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::bd4c:d27f:827f:7c51%22
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 172.30.55.223
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 172.30.55.1

2) I reset the AP back to router mode and plug in the ethernet cable from the VF router to the WAN port and I get internet.
When i plug it into the port in the cabin I'm not getting any internet.
When i plug the "new router" into the port in the cabin I'm not getting any internet.

So i think its a cable issue

helimachoptor

I've joined the cables using the in line connector but still no getting a connection in the cabin.

Just gonna get a new cable

smuggler.ie

helimachoptor wrote: »

I've joined the cables using the in line connector but still no getting a connection in the cabin.

Just gonna get a new cable

Can you plug PC or laptop(personal, not from work) directly to cabin Ethernet, without AP?
Do you get internet then?

helimachoptor

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Can you plug PC or laptop(personal, not from work) directly to cabin Ethernet, without AP?
Do you get internet then?

No, below is the output. the other port in the wall isn't wired, but i don't get any of the below when i connect to that, but I'm not sure what exactly that means (if anything)

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fd2e:9370:6aa1::53b
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fdc2:7ed9:ddc8::53b
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fde9:2759:25bb::53b
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::dd06:1d26:967b:83c%15
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address. . : 169.254.8.60
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

smuggler.ie

helimachoptor wrote: »

No, below is the output. the other port in the wall isn't wired, but i don't get any of the below when i connect to that, but I'm not sure what exactly that means (if anything)

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fd2e:9370:6aa1::53b
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fdc2:7ed9:ddc8::53b
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : fde9:2759:25bb::53b
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::dd06:1d26:967b:83c%15
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address. . : 169.254.8.60
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

OK, 169.254.xxx.xxx is APIPA address - device not able to get to DHCP(VF router) and self assign IP. Cable damage then as it looks

helimachoptor

Thanks smuggler.
I'll pick a new cable up for cable monkey tomorrow and get connected

helimachoptor

I am back with a very stupid question.
So this is my ethernet port.

Let's say this is the B device my white/orange should match against green/white on the A port?

If so I'm not sure how I had it working originally because I didn't do this

diggerdigger

A and B are standards, 568a 568b. Not an a side and B side of a connection. So stick to 568b unless a crossover connection is needed. I can't imagine it is.

Whatever way you had it wired,maybe somehow it negotiated it.

Buy yourself a cheap ethernet cable tester if you don't already have one. To make sure your connections are solid. Usually you can get a set with a punch tool for a few euros on eBay. Then you'll know if the line is electrically sound.

Also, test the AP with a short direct cable to your router, to make sure your not dealing with a bum IP config.

helimachoptor

diggerdigger wrote: »

A and B are standards, 568a 568b. Not an a side and B side of a connection. So stick to 568b unless a crossover connection is needed. I can't imagine it is.

Whatever way you had it wired,maybe somehow it negotiated it.

Buy yourself a cheap ethernet cable tester if you don't already have one. To make sure your connections are solid. Usually you can get a set with a punch tool for a few euros on eBay. Then you'll know if the line is electrically sound.

Also, test the AP with a short direct cable to your router, to make sure your not dealing with a bum IP config.

Thanks digger.
This is also worrying. Got a new cable and ran it from the office to house and wired up the ports as I had been doing and didn't get a connection.

Will try again in the morning

Gooey Looey

Use B for both, nobody uses A any more, it's for the other side of a crossover cable which isn't really used now as devices auto negotiate

helimachoptor

I'll post my ports when I do them up tomorrow

smuggler.ie

As suggested above, stick to one standard on all you wiring on both ends. "B" most common.

However, nowadays devices should support Auto-MDIX, furthermore, it was relevant in 10T-Base and 100T-Base(two pairs in use - one transmit, other receive), for 1000T-Base (1GB Ethernet)not so as all four pairs in use and transmitting/receiving both directions.
You must be using some outdated hardware ... , or seriously mix up wires.

Triple check you wiring anyway