Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Andrew surely scored the double today, longest post and most quotes.

Your on fire young man. Have ye no work to be doing in that cushy golden pensioned number you call a job?

Seriously though, cyclists being traffic doesn't stop them delaying traffic. A slow car is traffic too, so are tractors. There's still the offence being committed if they are crawling

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Maybe ask yourself why cyclists dont use them. Why do cyclists choose to share the road with drivers instead. Take your head out of the sand!
As for cyclists using the path, this is a minority and in my experience tends to be children.

Why don't you tell me? I use them daily. Yes it can be more straight forward to use the road at times. I agree with that but that's not my point. It again goes back to arrogance and why there's such a hatred between drivers and cyclists

Just because there's insufficient parking spaces doesn't make it ok to park on the path, just because you don't like the cycle Lane doesn't make it ok to sit in the middle of the road delaying people.

Why is the concept of getting along and being decent and considerate to others so hard for people to grasp that they are actually coming up with reasons to disagree with me?

Jesus wept, just make an effort to have some empathy and consideration to others regardless of your mode of transport. The world will be a tiny bit better for it

Seth Brundle

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Rules of the road aren't laws of the road. I don't really care what they say however you do say "when necessary" and your attitude is why there's so much anger going around.

I cycle to work daily, use the cycle lanes when possible and stay close to the kerb to allow traffic space to pass me.

It results in fewer asshats skimming me at speed. Course some still do, can't solve all the world's asshats.

Likewise when I'm driving I relax, wait for space and pass a cyclist in good time and distance but again, there's always the ass who will do his best to block the road even when there's a perfectly good cycle Lane completely empty

I Will always use the road rather than a footpath/cycle path combo principally because I will not cycle at over 30km/h with pedestrians. The law supports my decision by not making it mandatory to use a cycle path.
When I am cycling on the road I am, as defined by the RTAs, part of traffic.
I am as entitled to use all roads (with a few exceptions such as motorways) as any driver. When I'm cycling on the road, I will occupy a lane the road. Traffic must overtake me as they would overtake any other vehicle.
I follow the road traffic laws; something the majority of drivers do not do!

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I Will always use the road rather than a footpath/cycle path combo principally because I will not cycle at over 30km/h with pedestrians. The law supports my decision by not making it mandatory to use a cycle path.
When I am cycling on the road I am, as defined by the RTAs, part of traffic.
I am as entitled to use all roads (with a few exceptions such as motorways) as any driver. When I'm cycling on the road, I will occupy a lane the road. Traffic must overtake me as they would overtake any other vehicle.
I follow the road traffic laws; something the majority of drivers do not do!

Are you aware of the law stating you should give way to faster vehicles and not cause an obstruction? How about the law that states you should stay as far to the left as reasonable possible?

Oh and no, you cannot always use the road, theyre are mandatory cycle lanes since 2012

Disregard, your comments say all I need to hear. Your one of them.

Seth Brundle

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Just because there's insufficient parking spaces doesn't make it ok to park on the path, just because you don't like the cycle Lane doesn't make it ok to sit in the middle of the road delaying people.

Do you mean like the way the queues of cars do for me on my bike. Oh no, wait, they stay blocking the lanes within the city. :rolleyes:
I am part of traffic as per the RTAs.
I am allowed to use the road just like other forms of traffic.
I am encouraged by the RSA to take the primarypositinn for my own safety.
Get over your self-entitled and wrong view!

Seth Brundle

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Are you aware of the law staying you should give way to faster vehicles and not cause an obstruction? How about the law that states you should stay as far to the left as reasonable possible?

Disregard, your comments say all I need to hear. Your one of them.

Go on, please tell us all which law you're referring to.

Roger the cabin boy

Try cycling legally and correctly on the roads or where provided, cycle paths, and somebody is going to end up hurt.

I'd rather non cycling people just be honest about cyclists and lobby for them to be banned rather the constant virtue signaling from them and pointing fingers at the cyclists behaviour before taking a long look at their own usage of roads and paths.

How many of you car drivers feel that the roads are not enough and use the pavement to park?

Those without sin and all that...

AndrewJRenko

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Why don't you tell me? I use them daily. Yes it can be more straight forward to use the road at times. I agree with that but that's not my point. It again goes back to arrogance and why there's such a hatred between drivers and cyclists

Just because there's insufficient parking spaces doesn't make it ok to park on the path, just because you don't like the cycle Lane doesn't make it ok to sit in the middle of the road delaying people.

Why is the concept of getting along and being decent and considerate to others so hard for people to grasp that they are actually coming up with reasons to disagree with me?

Jesus wept, just make an effort to have some empathy and consideration to others regardless of your mode of transport. The world will be a tiny bit better for it

This might help you to understand why some cyclists don't use some cycle lanes.

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes

The difference between parking on the path and cycling on the road is that parking on the path is illegal.

Roger the cabin boy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This might help you to understand why some cyclists don't use some cycle lanes.

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes

The difference between parking on the path and cycling on the road is that parking on the path is illegal.

Not only illegal, but extremely selfish and ignorant behaviour.

AndrewJRenko

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Are you aware of the law stating you should give way to faster vehicles and not cause an obstruction? How about the law that states you should stay as far to the left as reasonable possible?

Oh and no, you cannot always use the road, theyre are mandatory cycle lanes since 2012

So when you're driving in heavy traffic and a fast cyclist comes up behind you, do you pull over to give way to faster vehicles?

AndrewJRenko

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

Not only illegal, but extremely selfish and ignorant behaviour.

You're right - all that parking on bike lanes is illegal, selfish and ignorant.

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Go on, please tell us all which law you're referring to.

A, statutory instrument 332 / 12: " A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track where—

(a) a cycle track is provided on a road, a portion of a road, or an area at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 021 (pedestrianised street or area) is provided, or

(b) a cycle track is a contra-flow cycle track where traffic sign number RUS 059 is provided and pedal cycles shall only be driven in a contra-flow direction on such track."

Section 98, road traffic act 1961. "A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed."

Proof in case law :

"A tractor driver in Co. Mayo last year was fined €300 and banned from driving for a year for causing an excessive tailback." (https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/do-farmers-have-to-pull-over-to-let-traffic-pass/)

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This might help you to understand why some cyclists don't use some cycle lanes.

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes

The difference between parking on the path and cycling on the road is that parking on the path is illegal.

As per my above post, there is a legal requirement to use some cycle lanes and that blog means nothing. The guy complains cars block the cycle Lane and if you read my original post you would see I specifically referred to that. In fact I have referred to it twice now.

A driver being a dick causes a cyclist to be a dick which causes another driver to be a dick and on we go.....

Roger the cabin boy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're right - all that parking on bike lanes is illegal, selfish and ignorant.

I was actually meaning footpaths, but it's equally abhorrent anywhere tbh.

As for cycling paths in Ireland, they are at best tokenism and at worst a real risk to public safety.

I'd get rid of them and plonk bus lanes everywhere for use by cycling and public transport. Much better in my experiences and it takes priority away from single occupancy car drivers.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So when you're driving in heavy traffic and a fast cyclist comes up behind you, do you pull over to give way to faster vehicles?

Are you being obtuse? Because that scenario is specifically mentioned in legislation.

In those circumstances, cyclists are permitted to undertake slow moving cars by passing on the left.

Roger the cabin boy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

As per my above post, there is a legal requirement to use some cycle lanes and that blog means nothing. The guy complains cars block the cycle Lane and if you read my original post you would see I specifically referred to that. In fact I have referred to it twice now.

A driver being a dick causes a cyclist to be a dick which causes another driver to be a dick and on we go.....

Eh, no.
It's not a legal requirement to use cycling paths because (as per my last comment) when this was put before the authorities as a law, they were reminded that most cycling paths are not fit for purpose and mandatory usage would result in death, injury and most importantly, civil law suits.

Roger the cabin boy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Are you being obtuse? Because that scenario is specifically mentioned in legislation.

In those circumstances, cyclists are permitted to undertake slow moving cars by passing on the left.

Wrong.

Cyclistsust follow the rules of the road like everyone else, so in stationery traffic, cyclists can filter if the road markings are dotted.

You pass on the right.

Roger the cabin boy

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

Eh, no.
It's not a legal requirement to use cycling paths because (as per my last comment) when this was put before the authorities as a law, they were reminded that most cycling paths are not fit for purpose and mandatory usage would result in death, injury and most importantly, civil law suits.

Well that's just made up gibberish. Again for those that don't read:

Statutory instrument 332 of 2012. Signed into law by then minister Leo himself on the 7th September 2012.

I did quote the exact section. Do you need a link? http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

It's a law. It exists.

magicbastarder

Have you read all the way to the end of the link you posted in defence of your argument? I think you should.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

I
Are you claiming that one or more of the parties may have acted on purpose?

.

Are you suggesting that the parties didn't intentionally walk or cycle in those particular places? I've no knowledge of this incident, but almost all actions on the road and the path and cycle lane are intentional. Drivers speed intentionally, drivers use their phones intentionally, drivers have a few pints intentionally, cyclists cycle on paths intentionally, pedestrians walk on cycle lanes intentionally.

RSA don't refer to accidents. Gardai don't refer to accidents. Fire and ambulance service don't refer to accidents.

Why do you want to let drivers off the hook?

magicbastarder

To quote:
"new and amended requirements for use of cycle tracks (only use of contraflow cycle track and of any cycle track in pedestrianised area is mandatory)"

Roger the cabin boy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Well that's just made up gibberish. Again for those that don't read:

Statutory instrument 332 of 2012. Signed into law by then minister Leo himself on the 7th September 2012.

I did quote the exact section. Do you need a link? http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

It's a law. It exists.

Erm, which bit?

Roger the cabin boy

magicbastarder wrote: »

To quote:
"new and amended requirements for use of cycle tracks (only use of contraflow cycle track and of any cycle track in pedestrianised area is mandatory)"

Quite so.

Roger the cabin boy

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

Wrong.

Cyclists must follow the rules of the road like everyone else, so in stationery traffic, cyclists can filter if the road markings are dotted.

You pass on the right.

**** me, you really are all heads in sand aren't you? It takes 20 seconds to Google these. Try it before commenting

"A cyclist can overtake a vehicle on the left (or inside of the flow of traffic) if the vehicles to the right are stationary or moving more slowly than the cyclist."
(https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/cycling/cycling_offences.html)

That's the exact scenario you stated.

Here's the part about allowing traffic to pass:

"Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.". That's in statutory instrument 182 / 1997.

Again, instead of arguing with me and being incorrect, how about a little empathy and consideration all round?

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

Have you read all the way to the end of the link you posted in defence of your argument? I think you should.

Yes, thus I said there's times when it's a legal requirement. I didn't say all times and all lanes.

Here's exactly what I said:

"As per my above post, there is a legal requirement to use some cycle lanes"

Again, SOME CYCLE LANES.

magicbastarder

Ah. Selective quoting, without saying so. Carry on.

Roger the cabin boy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

**** me, you really are all heads in sand aren't you? It takes 20 seconds to Google these. Try it before commenting

"A cyclist can overtake a vehicle on the left (or inside of the flow of traffic) if the vehicles to the right are stationary or moving more slowly than the cyclist."
(https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/cycling/cycling_offences.html)

That's the exact scenario you stated.

Here's the part about allowing traffic to pass:

"Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.". That's in statutory instrument 182 / 1997.

Again, instead of arguing with me and being incorrect, how about a little empathy and consideration all round?

Erm, that just confirms my point?

You as a car driver, overtake on the right in normal use, but can undertake in slow lane conditions. The rule applies regardless of where the lane is.
For cycling, a clarification is required as noted stop car drivers from getting het-up because bikes pass them on the inside when they are stuck picking their nose in traffic.

Read the rules, don't just look at them lol

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

Ah. Selective quoting, without saying so. Carry on.

Not selective at all. The part I quoted is very clear in what it states. Is it not? Have I misled in some way? Did I not state that?

Roger the cabin boy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yes, thus I said there's times when it's a legal requirement. I didn't say all times and all lanes.

Here's exactly what I said:

"As per my above post, there is a legal requirement to use some cycle lanes"

Again, SOME CYCLE LANES.

Still wrong.

"If safe and possible to do so" applies to all rules.

Or would you have cyclists wait patiently in the lane whilst Bob who has parked in it, returns from picking up his dole money from the post office....

"Excuse me whilst I commit suicide by not breaking the law..."

magicbastarder

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not selective at all. The part I quoted is very clear in what it states. Is it not? Have I misled in some way? Did I not state that?

Ok, it's mandatory to cycle in some cycle lanes. Can you explain why you're so hung up on arguing this specific point when it's clearly not the context being discussed? The number of such qualifying cycle lanes in Dublin is a *tiny* fraction of all cycle lanes.