EU Biodiversity strategy 2030

The impact of designations and bureaucracy on local food production. I don't know the person in question but the decision is ridiculous imo.

https://connachttribune.ie/an-bord-pleanala-issues-refusal-for-former-mad-yolk-farm-lands/?fbclid=IwAR2s9TPhxmGDE1I2QoIzERzYYLI4uDMK1u_AVgBacyrnWnZM2AktFDuSJIA

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434008#Comment_120434008

This part of the world doesn't know what hinger is.

Lime Tree Farm

A stand out statement, that made me sit up and take note.

"The construction of a track with a track machine had a significant "adverse" effect on the integrity of a European site, Mr Rice said"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41109250.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120442359#Comment_120442359

Meh, European but advocated for and overseen by Irish agendas. The drama.

Water John

The Irish Citizens Assembly Report on Biodiversity has been published.

Jonnyc135

5 articles in agriland all about bio diversity loss from the citizens assembly and countless environmental bodies.

Serious agenda by mainstream media pushing this, no doubt there is bio diversity loss and it can be helped through alot of good measures - but destroying the socio economic fabric of rural Ireland by rewetting peat soils is not the answer.

Jonnyc135

Peter Sweetman taking 2 dairy farms to An Bord Planeala over planning for infrastructure on their farm.

Was at a planning and law conference a few months back and this guy has some amount of objections made. Basically they will try like what the did for that cheese plant and say that the upstream emmisions of the dairy cattle must be included in the environmental impact assessment prior to building the plant.

I bet this is the same carry on he is trying here but he may have a better chance getting this on through as it is at a farm level. All depends on ABP decision but feck all farmers out there will have the fiancial power to bring this to a high court decision after a negative ABP decision.

I'd watch this closely, precedence only has to be ever set once.

..

https://twitter.com/peatyGHG/status/1645721057662255104?s=20

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467185#Comment_120467185

Great to see, yet all the environmentalists and politicians were saying in that last oireachtas meeting that the science is clear and their peer reviewed and were basically laughing at Vincent Roddy when he said diddnt agree with their science based off European models and data.

Hopefully this irish data shows them up for what they are - green cult agenda clowns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467185#Comment_120467185

Still comes to the same conclusion on rewetting and restoration

Since peatlands cover around 20 % of the land area in the Republic of Ireland, their management is of particular significance in reducing national greenhouse gases (GHG) emissions. We reviewed peatland carbon (C) flux studies within Ireland, extracting data for carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide fluxes, as well as fluvial losses and here propose preliminary country-specific emission factors (EFs) for various peatland land uses and management practices. Using our derived EFs and latest areal estimates, national emissions from peatlands (excluding horticulture and combustion) amount to 2.3 Mt C y-¹ (± 0.9–3.7 Mt C y-¹), with half of all peatland GHG emissions coming from grasslands on organic soils and nearly one-third from domestic extraction drained peatlands. Our analyses suggest that peatland management through rewetting and restoration has the potential to substantially reduce emissions from drained peatlands, and this paper attempts to quantify this reduction. This is critically important given the large areas of degraded peatlands that have been earmarked for rewetting in the next decade.

https://twitter.com/AitovaInNature/status/1644271830981648384?t=9PSoRTmXMBD4PDP72q0vPw&s=19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467205#Comment_120467205

We'll see what the new numbers say, I've heard one's which are very encouraging. The greater the reduction the more possibility an argument can succeed against rewetting. Unfortunately, from my pov at least, still no one is talking about alternatives. Figures (the people kind) must be presented with a viable alternative argument that has more meat on it's bones than a DUP style "No!", I hope I'm wrong but I don't see that one working.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467597#Comment_120467597

Once people start to realize how drastically this rewetting will affect them, their communities and their pockets both revenue and asset value - There will be huge push back and a common ground will have to be obtained. Going in with the approach like 'oh this is a law now and were taking over your asset, devaluing it and rewetting it end of' will be an absolute disaster and could easily cause the collapse of a government and deep down I think and hope they know this.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467859#Comment_120467859

Hearing this is also on the cards in NI. In a time of world beef and dairy shortages due to drought in other countries the whole of Ireland is only going to reduce the national herd and rewet peat areas. Passing the buck and not good enough

Got to talk to David Johnson and Hui Chen Su of Johnson-Su Bioreactor fame today. I even got a private audience 😁

Outlined the situation regarding alleged peatland emissions, farming, and the religion of rewetting.

I asked if they thought the emissions could be captured by placing a beneficial blanket of aerobic microbes in the upper layer of drained peatland. The answer is a solid yes, along with the correct grazing management afterwards.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529644#Comment_120529644

Now go on twitter and raise Hell!! 😎

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529805#Comment_120529805

Haven't a notion. It's a viable alternative to rewetting and no one is interested in it. I'm just stating that it exists.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529828#Comment_120529828

The Irish env researchers will just say they're further investigating emissions from peat farmland and while there's a reduction in emissions from earlier studies the research still says there's emissions.

No body is interested because they don't know if diverse biology applied in the aerobic layer above the anaerobic will stop emissions or even reverse and become a sink.

If you're serious you're going to have to contact someone.

SETU research maybe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529989#Comment_120529989

It's a serious theory based on comments by Elaine Ingham mostly in the SFW course. Asking David Johnson and Hui Chen Su today was just confirming what I already knew. Ingham has alluded to having the/a solution to GHG emissions from melting permafrost. I went and looked at what kind of soils make up permafrost lands, a large % are peatlands. One of the composting methods is via static pile, where the innards of the pile go anaerobic, producing GHG gasses. I questioned why one would want to add those to the atmosphere, the reply was seeing as there's an aerobic layer, a blanket if you will,around the outside of the pile in contact with outside air, the aerobic microbes intercept and change the GHG's before they can escape the pile. Now swing back to alleged emissions on Irish drained peatland and you can join the dots. Probably the most difficult part of the puzzle is keeping the grazing correct after the fact, which is likely even more important. But, the moral of the story is it's an alternative that politically robs the fundamentalists of their argument, gives everyone a healthy environment and reduces the farmers costs.

I tried and failed to bring a lobby group rep with me today, because I see what's happening in Oireachtas committee's, and hear other stuff in meetings. I think not presenting an alternative which a politician can use as political cover is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530110#Comment_120530110

From my limited knowledge of microbes/microbial life in soil, I was of the opinion that the soil pH have to be roughly above 6 for them to be able to live, survive and carry out the aerobic blanket at maximum efficiency as you described. If that is the case then alot of well managed drained peat soils that are limed sufficiently are not carbon emitters as the EPA and their so called coefficients calculated from mainland Europe would suggest.

Very interesting all the same, I am a firm believer that high fertilie soils rich with microbial life and fungi are not getting enough attention as they are one of the most important parts of farming - try tell that to a vegan who eats Beyond Meat products grown in America in soils saturated in pesticides and synthetic nitrogen with 0 microbial or fungi life in the soil.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120535246#Comment_120535246

I'm not an expert, I know enough to be dangerous, but I have asked experts in-depth questions specifying fairly precisely the type of land involved, PH was never flagged as an issue. As an aside, plants in a properly functioning system can create different PH zones along their root systems tailored to their own needs. Ingham in particular would be strongly against lime, gypsum etc. as harmful to soil biology.

Their answers to my questions have been fairly solid yes', once the correct biology is put into place and following that the correct management to look after the biology. As someone, Einstein?, said we won't get out of this with the same thinking that got us into it.

I'm fairly aggravated I couldn't get someone - people who are talking to the politicians - to go along with me on the day, it would have been productive.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529644#Comment_120529644

If you can come up with a coherent methodology and credible partners I'd say that you've a potential EIP project there.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537756#Comment_120537756

I would say that maybe some of your other views might come against you though and might want to be toned down or even reconsidered.

It might be challenging for some to take a novel proposal to facilitate continued peatland agriculture seriously from one who also views biodiversity as an existential threat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537760#Comment_120537760

Hold on a second.

What views?

I don't view biodiversity as a threat. I see the Biodiversity strategy for 2030 and the Nature protection law's as man made agendas. Rather like the naming of Mao's secret police, Ministry of Public Security. Just because a thing sounds good doesn't mean it is.

That is the problem with the green agenda. If one holds a view different from the religion, one is pro burning the planet. It's not on.

There is more than one road to take here to get to a healthy place. The issue arises when some peoples view of Nirvana is challenged. These are emotional outbursts, not scientific curiosity.

As for the EIP, yeah it's been suggested to me. However the problem is time, the PTB don't want to wait for results. I have not been made aware of credible alternatives being brought up with politicians, which might sway their opinion as opposed to a DUP style just say NO!

As for the way I put things across, I'll just say I got a phone call one day asking my opinion on a project, I asked if the caller was sure I was the right person to ask? The reply I got was "If I wanted a yes man I'd have rang one of the neighbours".

🤷‍♂️

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537760#Comment_120537760

You seem like ur trying to gaslight herdquitter and other posters on this regarding bio diversity. Any of the main posters on this thread are in no way against bio diversity, we are trying to come up with alternatives to enforced blanked rewetting across the board.

Go back read the thread, carbon farming has potential but not in its current form as detailed by the EU, as stored carbon can not be traded or linked to the land it is dismal and with the scars from designation os SPACs 20 odd years ago the scars are still there and people in those areas will not be fooled or made and idiot out of again.

Out of curiosity what views does Herdquitter have that have to be 'Toned Down'

Castlekeeper

Ah no , you've the wrong end of the stick there.

I apologise to Herdquitter if I have misinterpreted an earlier statement that biodiversity was an existential threat, which was the only view and poster referred to. I'm not sure but it now appears that this was referring to specific EU/National biodiversity plans as against pro- biodiversity policies in general?

While the idea of being able to biologically stabilise/neutralise carbon losses from peatlands is worthy, I was just thinking that for the proposal to have weight that it would need to be trialled, evaluated and proven, as otherwise suggested too.

I had read the thread and thanked many posts along the way.

I assume it's more trolling or WUMming your accusing me of? Gaslighting is slightly different, think more coercive control.

Interesting stuff, first I've heard of this..

https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/05/04/eu-centre-right-group-joins-backlash-against-green-agenda/

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556025#Comment_120556025

Jesus that is big news, they are basically the main political party in the EU. Hopefully they see some sense and water this down big time.

This maybe the bit of hope we needed. Fingers crossed the democratic process in the EU holds up and acts accordingly not to the tune of big buissness and NGOs, big if though.

Defiantly more optimistic after seeing this though.

Maybe I shouldn't burn the EPP European party bag I got at the fine gael tent at the ploughing last year.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556099#Comment_120556099

Just be aware that the EPP have their own big business agenda via the like of Copa Cogeaca who are heavily funded by the Agri Chemical industry, Feedlot Meat Processors etc. Also the EPP would be strongly against any CAP reform that would ensure a fairer spread of SFP money to smaller farmers in marginal areas etc. Their Blueshirt members also support the controversial Mercosur deal that would potentially hit beef farmers pretty hard. Their guff about Food security has also been recently exposed by their blocking of grain imports from prospective EU candidate countries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556581#Comment_120556581

The enemy of my enemy and all that, for a period of time anyway.

In other news, like with the kremlin, don't believe it until it's denied

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ryan-not-promoting-cpos-for-national-parks/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120541065#Comment_120541065

Thanks but no apology necessary 👍️

I look across the Irish sea to see how well James Rebanks and Caroline Grindrod work together, how that relationship has benefited both his business and the environment. That's how this stuff ought to work. I'd like to work like that.

Then I look around back here and lament at the letter scratching failed GE candidates et al dictating to the peasants as what to do. That's my objection to these things. As a farmer I'm described as a stakeholder, but it's a nonsense and well I know it. The relationships here are broken, well and truly. Here it's you should thanks us for your 30 magic beans while we destroy any notion you may have had for your own place.

My limited information on the subject informs me the PTB don't want more trials. They want a fast box ticking exercise and who cares who suffers because of that. We've a history of doing that in farming in Ireland.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556712#Comment_120556712

I think we can both agree that Ryan is a clown - same guy has power to re-wild state land via Coillte, BNM etc.and achieve many of the aims of these EU measures without bothering any farmer, but won't do it!!

Jonnyc135

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/epp-calls-for-withdrawal-of-eu-nature-restoration-law/

Be interesting to see what happens now

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557001#Comment_120557001

Easier to pick a fight with farmers than powerful civil service and semi-states. Ryan might well act the clown but he's a passive-aggressive bully at the back of it - he knows what fights to pick.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569204#Comment_120569204

It sure will. It's like the hope of a stay of execution at the 11th hour.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569420#Comment_120569420

The Green party are really an authoritarian movement (Mao's China) at the back of it all - The green agenda does not really care about the environment per say, its about control whilst allowing the main elites and corporate emitters a free run. They a feudalistic party, they want full control of food, shelter, energy and money all in order to control the people.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569508#Comment_120569508

Fine Gael are really an authoritarian movement (Mao's China) at the back of it all - Their agenda does not really care about the environment per say, its about control whilst allowing the main elites and corporate emitters a free run. They a feudalistic party, they want full control of food, shelter, energy and money all in order to control the people.

Castlekeeper

Sinn Fein are really an authoritarian movement (Mao's China) at the back of it all - Their agenda does not really care about the environment per say, its about control whilst allowing the main elites and corporate emitters a free run. They a feudalistic party, they want full control of food, shelter, energy and money all in order to control the people.

older by the day

Look at all the new planes Ryan air have on order and the expected air travel in the next few years. The plonkers telling me that my few cows and the trailer of turf I cut is ruining the environment.

God help the lefties that call to my yard looking for votes next year. It's all a crock of Shiite

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120575239#Comment_120575239

And Michael O'Leary doesn't waste his time "meeting Ministers" to get what he wants. He seems to have a simple approach: get out into the media, tell everyone what you're doing in plain English, and put the Govt/EU on the backfoot before they struggle out of bed to clock in for their first meeting at 10am.

I'm no fan of O'Leary but the farm reps could do with taking a leaf out of his PR book.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120575412#Comment_120575412

MOL runs a business. He is the boss. He dictates direction of travel for his business.

No emissions reduction target, no nitrates targets nor reductions, scott free, not because he puts a simple approach in the media, but because the public want to keep flying and governments want to keep people moving trading and spending, and the nature of an International Airline can't be held to account in any one jurisdiction.....they can't even tax the fuel.

If a farm organisation dictated direction of travel for it's members, 360° would be enough compass points for the amount of directions farmers would take off in.

Jonnyc135

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/greens-demand-irish-meps-back-eu-rewetting-and-pesticide-laws-764448

Demanding members to basically destroy the social fabric of rural Ireland.

What f'ing arseholes, my god. To makes things worse our Commisioner is backing it even though her EPP party is against it. Easy knowing she's from the East and it will have no impact on her local area.

God almighty, I would describe myself as a Conservative put progressive part time farmer full time Renewable Energy Engineer, educated, working for a Multinational company and extremely progressive in terms of sustainable farming practices - My god I used often think of voting Green years ago, but they are a holy show they really have some serious agenda at play here. Destroy rural Ireland, control food and energy and infringe on people property rights seems to be their main goal.

alps

MMG has moved position completly to the narrative that Irish Farmers just have to suck it up and get on with it.

Europe (whoever decides) knows best, all this is a done deal, its going to happen now regardless, and better for all if we just move on.

She can put this in a very eloquent way, but her message is savage.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582492#Comment_120582492

I watched her speak well bare face lie to the people in the Fine Gael tent at the ploughing last year about how they would ensure a thriving rural Ireland and agriculture sector yada yada yada. The dog on the roads knows, even the DG agri in Europe had leaked memos stating the detrimental effects of this regulation will have on rural communities.

I actually would go so far as using the word hate now - I hate these lieing so called elected elites. Fu$k the lot of them, comming from a progressive, educated, sustainable farmer, shows how much they have gone against even the more open minded and progressive thinking people how delusional they are.

They will cause serious divisions and break rural society, and that will end up breaking Ireland much like the UK.

Words are cheap, my god she's even worse than the greens, blatant lier.

All these top eleites in power have just became so far removed from the people that elect them and reality.

Timmermans at the EU Ag Committee on the NRL, haven't watched it yet so don't know what if any value is in it.

https://multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/en/webstreaming/committee-on-agriculture-and-rural-development_20230522-1530-COMMITTEE-AGRI

Interesting, so now I am to vote FG & SF to support my own thinking, oh my head.

https://twitter.com/ARC2020eu/status/1661008444730793985?s=20

In the word of Jeremy Clarkson YESSSSSSSSSSSS! Now to see what happens next.

https://www.arc2020.eu/agri-meps-vote-to-reject-the-nature-restoration-law-whats-next/

SuperTortoise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633078#Comment_120633078

It'll be Lisbon treaty all over again, they'll keep going until they have their way.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633207#Comment_120633207

Possibly, but it's heartening to see a little friction. SM babbling about the vote being anti environment but I'll contrast it again with James Rebanks & Caroline Grindrod working in harmony in the UK, while here we have the religious letter scratchers seeking dominance over the land, literally.

It's unfortunate, from my perspective, some MEP's think money will solve the perception of the NRL. My experience last time with designations was the meagre funding evaporated while the laws of what I am disallowed to do on my own land, and the devaluation of same, and prohibition of many income generating actions remained.

Biodiversity for 2030 and the NRL are more of the same on steroids.

Anyone advocating for the NRL, with whatever sweetners, is advocating for the landowner to lose control of that land permanently while the sweetner is only temporary.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633078#Comment_120633078

Positive news, I would hope these debates and friction will rumble on and consessions will have to be made in terms of the whole regulation.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633246#Comment_120633246

I read English Pastoral when it came out first, then gave it to the local charity shop with a load of other books. I’ve just ordered it online again and looking forward to re-reading it