Changing tax class for 30yo vehicle

BonnieSituation

Howyiz!

So it's now that glorious time of 2020 where the Carina has turned 30, so it's time to get that sweet sweet €56.00 tax!

Looking at the RF111 do I fill in the "Other section" of PART 4?

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

kdevitt

Yes, just write in it that tax status should be amended to Vintage.

BonnieSituation

kdevitt wrote: »

Yes, just write in it that tax status should be amended to Vintage.

Cheers. That's what I was gonna do, but it seemed to "Irish" as a solution, so just had to make sure.

antodeco

Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

BonnieSituation

antodeco wrote: »

Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

Aye. It's an April reg. Do nae worry.

kdevitt

antodeco wrote: »

Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

Vintage tax status is based off manufacture date, not registration date. Done a few at this stage, all with a printed email from BMW with the date of manufacture on it.

kdevitt

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cheers. That's what I was gonna do, but it seemed to "Irish" as a solution, so just had to make sure.

Is is a bit alright - I was a bit wary of the form being sent straight back to me the first time I did it.

BonnieSituation

kdevitt wrote: »

Vintage tax status is based off manufacture date, not registration date. Done a few at this stage, all with a printed email from BMW with the date of manufacture on it.

WHAT?

I could have had this done in November so! :O

Good to know now for any future oldie I change.

JabbaTheHut

kdevitt wrote: »

Vintage tax status is based off manufacture date, not registration date. Done a few at this stage, all with a printed email from BMW with the date of manufacture on it.

I tried that. Was met as if I had two heads when I got to the tax office. Had a form to say when it was manufactured, from the manufacturer, but apparently they knew better and was told it was on the system as first registered. No real effort to help me.

kdevitt

JabbaTheHut wrote: »

I tried that. Was met as if I had two heads when I got to the tax office. Had a form to say when it was manufactured, from the manufacturer, but apparently they knew better and was told it was on the system as first registered. No real effort to help me.

I've heard of one or two people saying that alright. Quite a few of the county councils have decent pages explicitly stating manufacture date on it - https://monaghan.ie/motortax/vintage/

Gov.ie page states it has to be over 30 years of age. I just post it off - saves the hassle!

w124man

antodeco wrote: »

Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

My 300SE will be 30 y/o on August 1st and I've had €56 road tax since January so what you say is incorrect!

antodeco

Hmm. It seems it might depend who you get in the tax office. I've had to vintage tax 5 cars and each time was told I had to wait until the "anniversary date". Bastards!

JabbaTheHut

antodeco wrote: »

Hmm. It seems it might depend who you get in the tax office. I've had to vintage tax 5 cars and each time was told I had to wait until the "anniversary date". Bastards!

You must be meeting the same people I do.

turbocab

so which is it ,date of manufacture ,or date of first registration,also that rf 111 form does not have on a change to vintage tax on the form

kdevitt

turbocab wrote: »

so which is it ,date of manufacture ,or date of first registration,also that rf 111 form does not have on a change to vintage tax on the form

Thats literally the question that the OP asked - you have to fill in the Other box on the form and state that the car should be on vintage tax.

Its date of manufacture - virtually every county council in the country states date on manufacture on their websites, the gov.ie says the car has to be 30 years of age. Nowhere mentions date of reg.

BonnieSituation

turbocab wrote: »

so which is it ,date of manufacture ,or date of first registration,

Seems first registration is safest. But evidence of first manufacture could work.

also that rf 111 form does not have on a change to vintage tax on the form

That's what spurred this thread.

Tick "other" and put "vintage" in the box.

turbocab

kdevitt wrote: »

Thats literally the question that the OP asked - you have to fill in the Other box on the form and state that the car should be on vintage tax.

Its date of manufacture - virtually every county council in the country states date on manufacture on their websites, the gov.ie says the car has to be 30 years of age. Nowhere mentions date of reg.

thanks for that , my 944 turbo turns 30 next year first reg date is aug 4th, all I have to do iis find manufacture date,cheers

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Howyiz!

So it's now that glorious time of 2020 where the Carina has turned 30, so it's time to get that sweet sweet €56.00 tax!

Looking at the RF111 do I fill in the "Other section" of PART 4?

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

Right another one for ye.

Something that has bugged me is that the VIN for my car recorded on the book and on the motor tax file is just the last 8 digits of the VIN.

Can I record the full VIN on the form so that they can update the file and will they require a photo or something of the VIN on the car? Or is this gonna cause confusion and a load of problems in the land of Irish bureaucracy?

macplaxton

Don't bother, It'll just confuse them.

I have a Volvo that when registered here, the NCTS took the (truncated) Engine no. from the V5C, even though I filled the paperwork out in full and pointed it out. All they said was if I wanted to fill out a form and have it stamped by a SIMI / qualified garage, blah, blah, blah. They aren't interested in keeping accurate records.

I did have other corrections done in the (very dim and distance) past, but at that time the Revenue themselves were dealing with the registration process.

I have another (UK) Volvo that got me a letter from the DVLA. Part of the MOT is that the tester captures the VIN/Chassis no. from the car and enter it into the computer system. As this was the long version (when registered in 1982, they just put the serial / last 8 digits or so down on the form), the mis-match caused the DVLA to send a letter with instructions on how to remedy the situation. Being a bit more helpful, it was just a case of filing out a form and returning it in the pre-paid envelope. They used to be rather lazy with capturing data for the vehicle register, but have got their act together in more recent times as they rely so heavily on ANPR, etc. that "nearly right" just doesn't cut it.

BonnieSituation

macplaxton wrote: »

Don't bother, It'll just confuse them.

I have a Volvo that when registered here, the NCTS took the (truncated) Engine no. from the V5C, even though I filled the paperwork out in full and pointed it out. All they said was if I wanted to fill out a form and have it stamped by a SIMI / qualified garage, blah, blah, blah. They aren't interested in keeping accurate records.

I did have other corrections done in the (very dim and distance) past, but at that time the Revenue themselves were dealing with the registration process.

I have another (UK) Volvo that got me a letter from the DVLA. Part of the MOT is that the tester captures the VIN/Chassis no. from the car and enter it into the computer system. As this was the long version (when registered in 1982, they just put the serial / last 8 digits or so down on the form), the mis-match caused the DVLA to send a letter with instructions on how to remedy the situation. Being a bit more helpful, it was just a case of filing out a form and returning it in the pre-paid envelope. They used to be rather lazy with capturing data for the vehicle register, but have got their act together in more recent times as they rely so heavily on ANPR, etc. that "nearly right" just doesn't cut it.

See, "nearly right" bothers me. It's down as a Carina and not Carina II as well, which is also annoying me.

Just give me a couple of months down in Shannon!

As an ex-Public Servant I'm well aware of the tendency for the dimmer COs, SOs and EOs to go a bit mad when something off-piste comes in.

I think when I change the class to vintage I might highlight it. might.

I'm an irritating c**t though, when it comes to administration stuff, so it will become too much to resist doing.

macplaxton

BonnieSituation wrote: »

See, "nearly right" bothers me.

It bothers me too, but the rigmarole in doing things to sort it out here beats me into submission.

Type 17

BonnieSituation wrote: »

See, "nearly right" bothers me. It's down as a Carina and not Carina II as well, which is also annoying me.

Just give me a couple of months down in Shannon!

As an ex-Public Servant I'm well aware of the tendency for the dimmer COs, SOs and EOs to go a bit mad when something off-piste comes in.

I think when I change the class to vintage I might highlight it. might.

I'm an irritating c**t though, when it comes to administration stuff, so it will become too much to resist doing.

macplaxton wrote: »

It bothers me too, but the rigmarole in doing things to sort it out here beats me into submission.

You’d go mad with my classic’s documents then: Mercedes Other (it’s a 350SE, so a common enough model, not some weird US-only model / prototype or anything).

Others on here have reported that the their make and model is Unknown Other :rolleyes:

BonnieSituation

Type 17 wrote: »

You’d go mad with my classic’s documents then: Mercedes Other (it’s a 350SE, so a common enough model, not some weird US-only model / prototype or anything).

Others on here have reported that the their make and model is Unknown Other :rolleyes:

I got a rash reading that. Some of the machines I've looked up on Cartell give me the heebie geebies.

Pops_20

Sorry to dig up this thread. I'm hoping to change my Nissan Skyline over to vintage tax in the next 18 months, but this thread has raised some questions.

It was first registered in November 1993. The logbook states the year of manufacture is 1993.
However I know from gtr-registry.com that the car was actually manufactured in December 1992.

So when I eventually apply for vintage tax using the RF1111 form, can I do that from 1st January 2023, or do I need to wait until November 2023?

I feel that I should be able to do it from 1st December 2022, but how do I provide proof of this, as its a Japanese Import?

unkel

It's based on first registration unfortunately, so November 2023

kdevitt

Pops_20 wrote: »

So when I eventually apply for vintage tax using the RF1111 form, can I do that from 1st January 2023, or do I need to wait until November 2023?

I feel that I should be able to do it from 1st December 2022, but how do I provide proof of this, as its a Japanese Import?

One of the lads on Backroads was able to find someone human to speak to at the tax centre and gave details on manufacture date and was able to switch over to vintage without anything 'official' from Mercedes. If you can get a copy of the data on the GTR register it would be worth a shot doing similar. I've always used an email printout from BMW with the manufacture date and posted it in, and that's sufficed. I'd be tempted to post in the forms first, with your GTR register printout, and if it does bounce back to you - just head to your local tax office and explain.

unkel wrote: »

It's based on first registration unfortunately, so November 2023

Nope - works off manufacture date.

Question:
When is a Vehicle Classed As Vintage & Taxation of Vintage & Veteran Vehicle
A vehicle is classed as a vintage/veteran once its 30 years old from date of manufacture and a concessionary rate of motor tax applies – See List of Motor Tax Rates.
Appropriate fee -See List of Motor Tax Rates.
No NCT/CRW required for Vintage Vehicles
Insurance Details
If the vehicle owner does not have the appropriate registration documents clearly showing the date of manufacture and the Motor Tax office is unable to trace any details of same from the National Vehicle Computer system then the vehicle will have to be re-registered with NCT and get a new Registration No.

https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/motor-tax/faq/when-vehicle-classed-vintage-taxation-vintage-veteran-vehicle

kadman

Some vintage/veteran classed classics need a cvrt test, as in the case of campers.
I just took this from the CVRT website


https://www.cvrt.ie/en/Certificate-of-Roadworthiness/Pages/CRW-and-Vintage-Vehicles-.aspx

vintage vehicles first registered before 1 January 1980 which are being used solely for non-commercial purposes do not need roadworthiness testing
vehicles registered after 1 January 1980 but over 30 years old which are being used solely for non-commercial purposes must undergo compulsory roadworthiness testing every two years instead of annually.

kdevitt

kadman wrote: »

vehicles registered after 1 January 1980 but over 30 years old which are being used solely for non-commercial purposes must undergo compulsory roadworthiness testing every two years instead of annually.

And once they hit 40 years of age there's no NCT required at all. Concerns me slightly when I see some of the stuff thats driving around my around of that age.

NCTS.ie wrote:

If your vehicle is aged between 30-39 years (based on the vehicle's date of first registration) and you are not using your vehicle for commercial purposes, it will have now have to undergo a roadworthiness test every two years instead of annually.

kadman

Correct:)

unkel

kdevitt wrote: »

Nope - works off manufacture date.

You googled this and copied from the first result that showed up. Which is from the county council in Tipperary

If you don't mind I'll stick to the premise (until proven wrong) that it is based on the first date of registration (which is easily proven as all cars in this country have an official first date of registration) and not the date of manufacture, which is a far more vague concept, not in the last place because it happened in another jurisdiction as Ireland doesn't manufacture or hasn't manufactured a lot of cars. This forum's charger has said for many years that vintage tax is based on first date of registration. NCT is also based on first date of registration

kdevitt

unkel wrote: »

You googled this and copied from the first result that showed up. Which is from the county council in Tipperary

If you don't mind I'll stick to the premise (until proven wrong) that it is based on the first date of registration (which is easily proven as all cars in this country have an official first date of registration) and not the date of manufacture, which is a far more vague concept, not in the last place because it happened in another jurisdiction as Ireland doesn't manufacture or hasn't manufactured a lot of cars. This forum's charger has said for many years that vintage tax is based on first date of registration. NCT is also based on first date of registration

I'm not entirely sure what Googles ranking of results has to do with anything - especially since its almost 8 years since I first worked this out for myself and did it, but Tipp CoCo's website is an official council website. You do know its your local councils tax office who change the tax status? There are plenty of other council websites stating the exact same thing if you want to repeat your search and work your way down. I agree that the legislation could be clearer (just states 30 years of age) but since the councils interpret that as 30 years since date of manufacture, that's really the end of it (mine went through Fingal FWIW). Probably wasn't such an issue a few decades back when cars were long dead before their 30th anniversary.

And are you seriously saying date of manufacture is a more vague concept than date of registration? A car can be re-registered in various jurisdictions, it can only be manufactured once. My CRX has a first registration date of 1996 on the V5, will have a first date in Ireland of 2020 - but its a 1989 car. Its literally impossible to provide the first date of registration in Japan - so not exactly as 'easy to prove' as you say. Anyway, I've actually done it - multiple times - I've phoned the tax office to discuss it when I had queries on it. And I know plenty of others who have done the exact same.

Last thread on Backroads recently -

deltona wrote: »

Well credit and acknowledgement to the nice lady in the local motor tax office.
This car has a 1990 plate, came from the UK to Ireland in 1996, and the VLC shows the first reg date as 10/09/1990.
But I'd established it's exact build date as being in May of 1990 using a few VIN lookup tools which all returned the same date.

But none of that needed to even be mentioned. The boss man simply phoned the motor tax office to enquire about switching the car to vintage tax, the nice lady who took the call sent out the necessary forms and they were swiftly sent back fully completed. 4 working days later the new tax disc arrived and the vehicle is now officially registered as vintage.
No need for any VIN reports or to approach Mercedes for a letter.

Always nice to have a positive and hassle free experience with a govt or council dept.

If you, or anyone else, would rather not apply based on manufacturing date then that's up to you. If I had a car on €1800 a year road tax and could switch to around €50 quid a year I'd want to be doing it as soon as possible - especially when the cost of doing so is next to zero (I can't remember what a stamp costs?)

Pops_20

Thanks all. It's at least worth a try to get the printouts from GTR registry and any other VIN look up sites I can find, and send this off with the RF111 form when the time comes. Worst case scenario, I have to wait another year.

unkel

kdevitt wrote: »

If you, or anyone else, would rather not apply based on manufacturing date then that's up to you. If I had a car on €1800 a year road tax and could switch to around €50 quid a year I'd want to be doing it as soon as possible - especially when the cost of doing so is next to zero (I can't remember what a stamp costs?)

Of course. And I would be the first to print out that Tipperary county council website's statement if it was my car and chance my arm

Ireland is probably the only EU country left where one can easily "convince" government officials of one's version of the truth :pac:

kdevitt

unkel wrote: »

Of course. And I would be the first to print out that Tipperary county council website's statement if it was my car and chance my arm

Ireland is probably the only EU country left where one can easily "convince" government officials of one's version of the truth :pac:

Yes, totally chancing ones arm - perhaps if the Tipp Coco site is down you could print it from Wicklow CoCo's site

Vintage & Veteran Vehicles
A vehicle is classed as a vintage/veteran once it is 30 years old from the date of manufacture.

... or Monaghans

Vintage Classification:
Any vehicle body type 30 years old from date of manufacture qualifies as vintage on which a concessionary rate of motor tax can apply.

...or Louths

Taxation of Vintage & Veteran Vehicle
A vehicle is classed as a vintage/veteran once its 30 years old from date of manufacture and a concessionary rate of motor tax applies.

...or maybe Sligo

A vehicle is classed as a vintage/veteran once it is 30 years old from date of manufacture and a concessionary rate of motor tax then applies

...Galways would probably work too -

VINTAGE / VETERAN VEHICLES:

A vehicle is classed as vintage / veteran once it is 30 years old from the year of manufacture.

Then if they get arsey and point out that the VRT35 form states date of registration for ZV plates, you could go for the ultimate 'chancing your arm' approach and direct them to the actual section from SI 357-1991 which allows for ZV plates on cars from 30 years of age (manufacturing) and which doesn't mention registration date at all.

(ii) the applicant for a licence satisfies the licensing authority that the vehicle was constructed more than 30 years prior to the commencement of the period in respect of which the licence is sought,

turbocab

turbocab wrote: »

thanks for that , my 944 turbo turns 30 next year first reg date is aug 4th, all I have to do iis find manufacture date,cheers

So ve got a certificate of authenticity from porsche,It says model year is 1990,Production completion date is 4/5/90. so hopefully ican change to vintage now ,so i just send photo copy of this cert plus registration document to dublin city counil office tomorrow ,Is there any fee for this lads cheers.

BonnieSituation

turbocab wrote: »

So ve got a certificate of authenticity from porsche,It says model year is 1990,Production completion date is 4/5/90. so hopefully ican change to vintage now ,so i just send photo copy of this cert plus registration document to dublin city counil office tomorrow ,Is there any fee for this lads cheers.

No fee outside of the €56.00 you're gonna pay to them for the annual chape tax.

Neilw

I’m in a bit of a pickle, my cars date of manufacture is January 1991, so in the new year I’d like to have it switched to vintage.
I have a certificate of authenticity from Volkswagen stating the date of manufacture.

My issue is I can’t for the life of me find the cars logbook, I’ve been searching for ages and can’t find it. I know it’s in the house somewhere as I would never throw it out.

Is there anyway I can change the tax class without the logbook?

JabbaTheHut

I doubt it very much. I can't see how they'd issue it vintage tax rates without it. You have until Janurary to find it, so you've got a bit of time, but if it comes to it, you may have to apply for a new book.

turbocab

Neilw wrote: »

I’m in a bit of a pickle, my cars date of manufacture is January 1991, so in the new year I’d like to have it switched to vintage.
I have a certificate of authenticity from Volkswagen stating the date of manufacture.

My issue is I can’t for the life of me find the cars logbook, I’ve been searching for ages and can’t find it. I know it’s in the house somewhere as I would never throw it out.

Is there anyway I can change the tax class without the logbook?

Just apply for a duplicate log book Its 12 euro i think when you receive it then send it on with rf 111 form and certificate of authenticity Good luck

BonnieSituation

Can anyone actually recommend a few decent VIN lookup services actually tha spit out decent detail? And has anyone ever gotten a non-exotic build sheet from say Toyota, Nissan etc?

JabbaTheHut

LIGHTNING wrote: »

So I was about to renew my cars tax when I realized its just hit 30. It was due to be taxed last month. So do I fill out section four and fill out the payment section. Or just fill out section 4 and wait for the new details to be sent to me?

I filled out section 4, and the payment section. Got a phone call from the tax office letting me know that the tax would be from the beginning of the month, so I would "loose" 2 weeks or so of tax, (as it was the middle of the month when it had it's 30th birthday) but once returned to me I could drive it straight away. I'd imagine if you didn't fill out the payment section, it would get reclassed as vintage, as normal, but it would just not be taxed. You would have to do that part seperate when you get the tax book back.

I included a covering note asking to return the brown log book, but talking the the person on the phone, it wasn't necessary.

kadman

Ditto, fill out the payment section. I just did my Fastback about a month ago, and it was still on the normal tax rate on the system.

So like you I filled out section 4 and payment details, and change of colour too. They sent me a disc with the wrong colour,
which i sent back and flagged up. Got it the following week.

JabbaTheHut

Did they make Fastbacks into the 1990's or was it an older one that saw the road for the first time in a while?

kadman

JabbaTheHut wrote: »

Did they make Fastbacks into the 1990's or was it an older one that saw the road for the first time in a while?

It was an older one 1972, that had been off the road for years, and it was still on the system as full rate of tax, despite being nearly 50 years old. It was never taxed as vintage up until a few weeks ago. Long, long story.

turbocab

turbocab wrote: »

So ve got a certificate of authenticity from porsche,It says model year is 1990,Production completion date is 4/5/90. so hopefully ican change to vintage now ,so i just send photo copy of this cert plus registration document to dublin city counil office tomorrow ,Is there any fee for this lads cheers.

Well guys just got my old log book, application and cert of authenticity reurned to me with an extra note saying your vehicle was registered on 4 august 1991, it cannot be changed to vintage yet as it must be30 years for this.It can be changed on or after the 4 august 2021.So it looks like dublin coco are going by first regristration and dont recognise date of manufacture as i have provided on certificate of authinicity.Im not taxing it now till next year anyway 56euro they would have got instead of a big fat zero.

JabbaTheHut

turbocab wrote: »

Well guys just got my old log book, application and cert of authenticity reurned to me with an extra note saying your vehicle was registered on 4 august 1991, it cannot be changed to vintage yet as it must be30 years for this.It can be changed on or after the 4 august 2021.So it looks like dublin coco are going by first regristration and dont recognise date of manufacture as i have provided on certificate of authinicity.Im not taxing it now till next year anyway 56euro they would have got instead of a big fat zero.

I'm well open to correction on this, but if you are trying to VRT the vehicle, then the original registration date is what it used. But to change the tax class of an Irish vehicle, then it goes by the date of manufacture. Kdevitt posted a couple of post back that on numerous county council websites that the date of manufacture is what is used when classing vehicles as vintage.

You may have run foul of someone like I did in this regard. In may case, I didn't bother to pursue it as my car was off the road anyway, but I suggest you give them a call, and see what they have to say. If you get the person that sent your documents back to you, you may well have a fight on your hands, so have your facts prepared well in advance.

turbocab

JabbaTheHut wrote: »

I'm well open to correction on this, but if you are trying to VRT the vehicle, then the original registration date is what it used. But to change the tax class of an Irish vehicle, then it goes by the date of manufacture. Kdevitt posted a couple of post back that on numerous county council websites that the date of manufacture is what is used when classing vehicles as vintage.

You may have run foul of someone like I did in this regard. In may case, I didn't bother to pursue it as my car was off the road anyway, but I suggest you give them a call, and see what they have to say. If you get the person that sent your documents back to you, you may well have a fight on your hands, so have your facts prepared well in advance.

The car was vrted over 15 years ago,its just the tax class change im looking for .I based on Mr Kdevitts correct fact that it was on date of manufacture as described on tipp and monaghan coco websites,I would conceide that if you cannot verify date of manufacture it would automatically default to date of first registration. I have proof of manufacure date on authenticity cert, but dublin coco dont want to know ,Ill try ringing them later.

kadman

My tax class change in Westmeath on my 72 Fastback went on
logbook details, granted the vehicle was well over 30 years old. But even so
it was still on their tax class computer as full rate..

turbocab

turbocab wrote: »

The car was vrted over 15 years ago,its just the tax class change im looking for .I based on Mr Kdevitts correct fact that it was on date of manufacture as described on tipp and monaghan coco websites,I would conceide that if you cannot verify date of manufacture it would automatically default to date of first registration. I have proof of manufacure date on authenticity cert, but dublin coco dont want to know ,Ill try ringing them later.

So rang dublin coco today,they said they cannot change to vintage as the car is locked to 1991 on there system .Gave me a number in Wexford to ring in revenue.Guess what the number is not in use ,fobbed off again so in other words the date of manufacture doesnt count even though you can prove so.So she wont be taxed this year.

JabbaTheHut

turbocab wrote: »

So rang dublin coco today,they said they cannot change to vintage as the car is locked to 1991 on there system .Gave me a number in Wexford to ring in revenue.Guess what the number is not in use ,fobbed off again so in other words the date of manufacture doesnt count even though you can prove so.So she wont be taxed this year.

I got the same story when I tried with the date of manufacture with mine, only I was told to contact Shannon. I did, and they told me to then contact Wexford. I didn't bother as I said before, it was off the road anyway at the time. I just waited an extra few months until it reached the 30 years old date on the tax book.
I'd like to give you more advice as to what you can do next, but since I wasn't successful in the same situtation you find yourself in now, maybe someone else here can advice you better.

Edit:
I was also told the same thing about being locked on their system. My car was an Irish car new from day one. I'm not sure how some councils can change things and others cant.

For the record, it was the Tipp Coco I had the trouble with. Go figure.