Advertisement
If you have a new account but can't post, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help to verify your email address. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Changing tax class for 30yo vehicle

  • 27-05-2020 5:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    Howyiz!

    So it's now that glorious time of 2020 where the Carina has turned 30, so it's time to get that sweet sweet €56.00 tax!

    Looking at the RF111 do I fill in the "Other section" of PART 4?

    https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    Yes, just write in it that tax status should be amended to Vintage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    kdevitt wrote: »
    Yes, just write in it that tax status should be amended to Vintage.

    Cheers. That's what I was gonna do, but it seemed to "Irish" as a solution, so just had to make sure.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭ antodeco


    Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    antodeco wrote: »
    Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

    Aye. It's an April reg. Do nae worry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    antodeco wrote: »
    Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

    Vintage tax status is based off manufacture date, not registration date. Done a few at this stage, all with a printed email from BMW with the date of manufacture on it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    Cheers. That's what I was gonna do, but it seemed to "Irish" as a solution, so just had to make sure.

    Is is a bit alright - I was a bit wary of the form being sent straight back to me the first time I did it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    kdevitt wrote: »
    Vintage tax status is based off manufacture date, not registration date. Done a few at this stage, all with a printed email from BMW with the date of manufacture on it.

    WHAT?

    I could have had this done in November so! :O

    Good to know now for any future oldie I change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭ JabbaTheHut


    kdevitt wrote: »
    Vintage tax status is based off manufacture date, not registration date. Done a few at this stage, all with a printed email from BMW with the date of manufacture on it.

    I tried that. Was met as if I had two heads when I got to the tax office. Had a form to say when it was manufactured, from the manufacturer, but apparently they knew better and was told it was on the system as first registered. No real effort to help me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    I tried that. Was met as if I had two heads when I got to the tax office. Had a form to say when it was manufactured, from the manufacturer, but apparently they knew better and was told it was on the system as first registered. No real effort to help me.

    I've heard of one or two people saying that alright. Quite a few of the county councils have decent pages explicitly stating manufacture date on it - https://monaghan.ie/motortax/vintage/

    Gov.ie page states it has to be over 30 years of age. I just post it off - saves the hassle!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭ w124man


    antodeco wrote: »
    Just be aware that it's the 30th year but the 30th birthday. So if your car was originally registered in November 1990, it'll be 29 years old until that date

    My 300SE will be 30 y/o on August 1st and I've had €56 road tax since January so what you say is incorrect!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭ antodeco


    Hmm. It seems it might depend who you get in the tax office. I've had to vintage tax 5 cars and each time was told I had to wait until the "anniversary date". Bastards! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭ JabbaTheHut


    antodeco wrote: »
    Hmm. It seems it might depend who you get in the tax office. I've had to vintage tax 5 cars and each time was told I had to wait until the "anniversary date". Bastards! :D

    You must be meeting the same people I do. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭ turbocab


    so which is it ,date of manufacture ,or date of first registration,also that rf 111 form does not have on a change to vintage tax on the form


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    turbocab wrote: »
    so which is it ,date of manufacture ,or date of first registration,also that rf 111 form does not have on a change to vintage tax on the form

    Thats literally the question that the OP asked - you have to fill in the Other box on the form and state that the car should be on vintage tax.

    Its date of manufacture - virtually every county council in the country states date on manufacture on their websites, the gov.ie says the car has to be 30 years of age. Nowhere mentions date of reg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    turbocab wrote: »
    so which is it ,date of manufacture ,or date of first registration,

    Seems first registration is safest. But evidence of first manufacture could work.
    also that rf 111 form does not have on a change to vintage tax on the form

    That's what spurred this thread.

    Tick "other" and put "vintage" in the box.


  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭ turbocab


    kdevitt wrote: »
    Thats literally the question that the OP asked - you have to fill in the Other box on the form and state that the car should be on vintage tax.

    Its date of manufacture - virtually every county council in the country states date on manufacture on their websites, the gov.ie says the car has to be 30 years of age. Nowhere mentions date of reg.
    thanks for that , my 944 turbo turns 30 next year first reg date is aug 4th, all I have to do iis find manufacture date,cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    Howyiz!

    So it's now that glorious time of 2020 where the Carina has turned 30, so it's time to get that sweet sweet €56.00 tax!

    Looking at the RF111 do I fill in the "Other section" of PART 4?

    https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

    Right another one for ye.

    Something that has bugged me is that the VIN for my car recorded on the book and on the motor tax file is just the last 8 digits of the VIN.

    Can I record the full VIN on the form so that they can update the file and will they require a photo or something of the VIN on the car? Or is this gonna cause confusion and a load of problems in the land of Irish bureaucracy?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    Don't bother, It'll just confuse them.

    I have a Volvo that when registered here, the NCTS took the (truncated) Engine no. from the V5C, even though I filled the paperwork out in full and pointed it out. All they said was if I wanted to fill out a form and have it stamped by a SIMI / qualified garage, blah, blah, blah. They aren't interested in keeping accurate records.

    I did have other corrections done in the (very dim and distance) past, but at that time the Revenue themselves were dealing with the registration process.

    I have another (UK) Volvo that got me a letter from the DVLA. Part of the MOT is that the tester captures the VIN/Chassis no. from the car and enter it into the computer system. As this was the long version (when registered in 1982, they just put the serial / last 8 digits or so down on the form), the mis-match caused the DVLA to send a letter with instructions on how to remedy the situation. Being a bit more helpful, it was just a case of filing out a form and returning it in the pre-paid envelope. They used to be rather lazy with capturing data for the vehicle register, but have got their act together in more recent times as they rely so heavily on ANPR, etc. that "nearly right" just doesn't cut it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Don't bother, It'll just confuse them.

    I have a Volvo that when registered here, the NCTS took the (truncated) Engine no. from the V5C, even though I filled the paperwork out in full and pointed it out. All they said was if I wanted to fill out a form and have it stamped by a SIMI / qualified garage, blah, blah, blah. They aren't interested in keeping accurate records.

    I did have other corrections done in the (very dim and distance) past, but at that time the Revenue themselves were dealing with the registration process.

    I have another (UK) Volvo that got me a letter from the DVLA. Part of the MOT is that the tester captures the VIN/Chassis no. from the car and enter it into the computer system. As this was the long version (when registered in 1982, they just put the serial / last 8 digits or so down on the form), the mis-match caused the DVLA to send a letter with instructions on how to remedy the situation. Being a bit more helpful, it was just a case of filing out a form and returning it in the pre-paid envelope. They used to be rather lazy with capturing data for the vehicle register, but have got their act together in more recent times as they rely so heavily on ANPR, etc. that "nearly right" just doesn't cut it.

    See, "nearly right" bothers me. It's down as a Carina and not Carina II as well, which is also annoying me.

    Just give me a couple of months down in Shannon!

    As an ex-Public Servant I'm well aware of the tendency for the dimmer COs, SOs and EOs to go a bit mad when something off-piste comes in.

    I think when I change the class to vintage I might highlight it. might.

    I'm an irritating c**t though, when it comes to administration stuff, so it will become too much to resist doing. :)


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    See, "nearly right" bothers me.

    It bothers me too, but the rigmarole in doing things to sort it out here beats me into submission.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭ Type 17


    See, "nearly right" bothers me. It's down as a Carina and not Carina II as well, which is also annoying me.

    Just give me a couple of months down in Shannon!

    As an ex-Public Servant I'm well aware of the tendency for the dimmer COs, SOs and EOs to go a bit mad when something off-piste comes in.

    I think when I change the class to vintage I might highlight it. might.

    I'm an irritating c**t though, when it comes to administration stuff, so it will become too much to resist doing. :)
    macplaxton wrote: »
    It bothers me too, but the rigmarole in doing things to sort it out here beats me into submission.

    You’d go mad with my classic’s documents then: Mercedes Other (it’s a 350SE, so a common enough model, not some weird US-only model / prototype or anything).

    Others on here have reported that the their make and model is Unknown Other :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    Type 17 wrote: »
    You’d go mad with my classic’s documents then: Mercedes Other (it’s a 350SE, so a common enough model, not some weird US-only model / prototype or anything).

    Others on here have reported that the their make and model is Unknown Other :rolleyes:

    I got a rash reading that. Some of the machines I've looked up on Cartell give me the heebie geebies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭ Pops_20


    Sorry to dig up this thread. I'm hoping to change my Nissan Skyline over to vintage tax in the next 18 months, but this thread has raised some questions.

    It was first registered in November 1993. The logbook states the year of manufacture is 1993.
    However I know from gtr-registry.com that the car was actually manufactured in December 1992.

    So when I eventually apply for vintage tax using the RF1111 form, can I do that from 1st January 2023, or do I need to wait until November 2023?

    I feel that I should be able to do it from 1st December 2022, but how do I provide proof of this, as its a Japanese Import?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    It's based on first registration unfortunately, so November 2023

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    Pops_20 wrote: »
    So when I eventually apply for vintage tax using the RF1111 form, can I do that from 1st January 2023, or do I need to wait until November 2023?

    I feel that I should be able to do it from 1st December 2022, but how do I provide proof of this, as its a Japanese Import?

    One of the lads on Backroads was able to find someone human to speak to at the tax centre and gave details on manufacture date and was able to switch over to vintage without anything 'official' from Mercedes. If you can get a copy of the data on the GTR register it would be worth a shot doing similar. I've always used an email printout from BMW with the manufacture date and posted it in, and that's sufficed. I'd be tempted to post in the forms first, with your GTR register printout, and if it does bounce back to you - just head to your local tax office and explain.
    unkel wrote: »
    It's based on first registration unfortunately, so November 2023

    Nope - works off manufacture date.

    Question:
    When is a Vehicle Classed As Vintage & Taxation of Vintage & Veteran Vehicle
    A vehicle is classed as a vintage/veteran once its 30 years old from date of manufacture and a concessionary rate of motor tax applies – See List of Motor Tax Rates.
    Appropriate fee -See List of Motor Tax Rates.
    No NCT/CRW required for Vintage Vehicles
    Insurance Details
    If the vehicle owner does not have the appropriate registration documents clearly showing the date of manufacture and the Motor Tax office is unable to trace any details of same from the National Vehicle Computer system then the vehicle will have to be re-registered with NCT and get a new Registration No.

    https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/motor-tax/faq/when-vehicle-classed-vintage-taxation-vintage-veteran-vehicle


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


    Some vintage/veteran classed classics need a cvrt test, as in the case of campers.
    I just took this from the CVRT website


    https://www.cvrt.ie/en/Certificate-of-Roadworthiness/Pages/CRW-and-Vintage-Vehicles-.aspx

    vintage vehicles first registered before 1 January 1980 which are being used solely for non-commercial purposes do not need roadworthiness testing
    vehicles registered after 1 January 1980 but over 30 years old which are being used solely for non-commercial purposes must undergo compulsory roadworthiness testing every two years instead of annually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    kadman wrote: »
    vehicles registered after 1 January 1980 but over 30 years old which are being used solely for non-commercial purposes must undergo compulsory roadworthiness testing every two years instead of annually.

    And once they hit 40 years of age there's no NCT required at all. Concerns me slightly when I see some of the stuff thats driving around my around of that age.
    NCTS.ie wrote:
    If your vehicle is aged between 30-39 years (based on the vehicle's date of first registration) and you are not using your vehicle for commercial purposes, it will have now have to undergo a roadworthiness test every two years instead of annually.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


    Correct:)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    kdevitt wrote: »
    Nope - works off manufacture date.

    You googled this and copied from the first result that showed up. Which is from the county council in Tipperary :p

    If you don't mind I'll stick to the premise (until proven wrong) that it is based on the first date of registration (which is easily proven as all cars in this country have an official first date of registration) and not the date of manufacture, which is a far more vague concept, not in the last place because it happened in another jurisdiction as Ireland doesn't manufacture or hasn't manufactured a lot of cars. This forum's charger has said for many years that vintage tax is based on first date of registration. NCT is also based on first date of registration

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭ kdevitt


    unkel wrote: »
    You googled this and copied from the first result that showed up. Which is from the county council in Tipperary :p

    If you don't mind I'll stick to the premise (until proven wrong) that it is based on the first date of registration (which is easily proven as all cars in this country have an official first date of registration) and not the date of manufacture, which is a far more vague concept, not in the last place because it happened in another jurisdiction as Ireland doesn't manufacture or hasn't manufactured a lot of cars. This forum's charger has said for many years that vintage tax is based on first date of registration. NCT is also based on first date of registration

    I'm not entirely sure what Googles ranking of results has to do with anything - especially since its almost 8 years since I first worked this out for myself and did it, but Tipp CoCo's website is an official council website. You do know its your local councils tax office who change the tax status? There are plenty of other council websites stating the exact same thing if you want to repeat your search and work your way down. I agree that the legislation could be clearer (just states 30 years of age) but since the councils interpret that as 30 years since date of manufacture, that's really the end of it (mine went through Fingal FWIW). Probably wasn't such an issue a few decades back when cars were long dead before their 30th anniversary.

    And are you seriously saying date of manufacture is a more vague concept than date of registration? A car can be re-registered in various jurisdictions, it can only be manufactured once. My CRX has a first registration date of 1996 on the V5, will have a first date in Ireland of 2020 - but its a 1989 car. Its literally impossible to provide the first date of registration in Japan - so not exactly as 'easy to prove' as you say. Anyway, I've actually done it - multiple times - I've phoned the tax office to discuss it when I had queries on it. And I know plenty of others who have done the exact same.

    Last thread on Backroads recently -
    deltona wrote: »
    Well credit and acknowledgement to the nice lady in the local motor tax office.
    This car has a 1990 plate, came from the UK to Ireland in 1996, and the VLC shows the first reg date as 10/09/1990.
    But I'd established it's exact build date as being in May of 1990 using a few VIN lookup tools which all returned the same date.

    But none of that needed to even be mentioned. The boss man simply phoned the motor tax office to enquire about switching the car to vintage tax, the nice lady who took the call sent out the necessary forms and they were swiftly sent back fully completed. 4 working days later the new tax disc arrived and the vehicle is now officially registered as vintage.
    No need for any VIN reports or to approach Mercedes for a letter.

    Always nice to have a positive and hassle free experience with a govt or council dept.

    If you, or anyone else, would rather not apply based on manufacturing date then that's up to you. If I had a car on €1800 a year road tax and could switch to around €50 quid a year I'd want to be doing it as soon as possible - especially when the cost of doing so is next to zero (I can't remember what a stamp costs?)


Advertisement