Straight Pull Rifle + Import from UK

rifle23141124

Hi All,

Currently have a .223 bolt action, member of midlands.

I was going to get a restricted firearm but decided it wasn't worth the hastle of security upgrade costs at this time and most likely being held up over covid sitation.

Just wondering if anyone has got a straight pull AR-15? looking at 300AAC
Are they classes as bolt action in Ireland or do I tick the 'Other' box on the form?
My current rifle is extremely heavy,I am looking for something I can use around on the farm with and also use at the range for shorter distance targets.

The second question, no shops in Ireland seem to stock/sell these, can I import one from a private seller or shop in the UK? Or can my local gunshop import them?

Wishing everyone the best!

alanmc

rifle23141124 wrote: »

Hi All,

Currently have a .223 bolt action, member of midlands.

I was going to get a restricted firearm but decided it wasn't worth the hastle of security upgrade costs at this time and most likely being held up over covid sitation.

Just wondering if anyone has got a straight pull AR-15? looking at 300AAC
Are they classes as bolt action in Ireland or do I tick the 'Other' box on the form?
My current rifle is extremely heavy,I am looking for something I can use around on the farm with and also use at the range for shorter distance targets.

The second question, no shops in Ireland seem to stock/sell these, can I import one from a private seller or shop in the UK? Or can my local gunshop import them?

Wishing everyone the best!

So I can't really answer the first part as I don't really have any experience with licensing restricted firearms or straight-pulls (whether they are restricted or not - I don't think they are, but I'm open to be corrected.).

As for importing, my RFD imported a rifle for me from a gun shop in the UK. He took a deposit, got me a serial, I applied for the license and then the rifle arrived. Pretty painless procedure.

alanmc

Actually, I guess the Blasers are Straight-pull, aren't they. Pretty sure they're licensed as Bolt Action.

Uinseann_16

Ive seen them here , they are unrestricted but due to their resembelence to a " assault rifle" they can be classed as a restricted firearm by your super if they feel like being awkward
I thought straight pull was an option on the FCA1 form? anyways put bolt action which it would be , and yes a dealer can import one from the UK for you
Be warned they kick like a mule they werent designed to be straight pull after all:P

solarwinds

They can be got here, the last time I was in a dealers he had one for sale in .223. But that was a few months ago now.
A lot of interest in AR 15 looking rifles suddenly ?.

Grizzly 45

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Ive seen them here , they are unrestricted but due to their resembelence to a " assault rifle" they can be classed as a restricted firearm by your super if they feel like being awkward
I thought straight pull was an option on the FCA1 form? anyways put bolt action which it would be , and yes a dealer can import one from the UK for you
Be warned they kick like a mule they werent designed to be straight pull after all:P

They'll have a job with that. We have been there,done that,bought the Tshirt stand with semi autos on this looks like malarkey.it falls flat on 2 points. FORM does not dictate FUNCTION,and define in Irish legislation what an "assault rifle" actually is.
As these rifles were never in any shape an "assault rifle",or even look like one,as one could argue Rugers new target rifle [the XC somthing or other] also looks like an "assault rifle " too,and there is no law here what "bits" you can or cant have on a bolt action ,I'd say go for it and apply for it as a bolt action,which is what it is.

A lot of interest in AR 15 looking rifles suddenly

Progress? And that the design is becoming the most common design now in some shape or form in the Western world? That it has surpassed in the US the iconic lever acton rifle as the most common design.:)

rifle23141124

Appreicate all the advice guys, that clears it up. I'll speak to my local shop to get one imported

kowloon

If it's an assault rifle, or if it looks like an assault rifle, it's an assault rifle. If it's black it looks like an assault rifle. If it has a pistol grip it's an assault rifle. If it's a Tuesday it's an assault rifle.

Best of luck with the purchase. The imports are slow at the moment.

jb88

Don't waste your time on a straight pull AR15 for the price etc they are in the UK (Not cheap) Just save the wedge and buy an AR 15 in Semi Auto.
In fact if your thinking straight pull at all then don't, get a lighter barrelled .223 bolt gun. bit of oil to slick up the action and there is f&ck all difference, believe me ive tried both and prefer the bolt action over a straight pull, (A UK answer to their problem, not ours)


Ar 15's are strictly for the range only and that is what should be going on your written application letter to support your application. Not for going out in the field and shooting a few foxes. (But make sure you put in your application letter that you may want to do a bit of vermin control with it and ask for a MOD) Tick the box for that and put some info into your supporting letter

Go through the hastle, get a monitored alarm or have one restricted and 3 unrestricted

I think the max is 3 unrestricted and one restricted without needing a monitored alarm.

Your not buying an "assault rifle", they don't exist legally in Ireland, your purchasing a "Sporting Rifle" in semi auto .223 restricted and if you get it built by a lad in Ireland then its a custom build and it will say "Other", on your licence.


Any half decent AR 15 in the right hands prone with a sling and a 4 powered scope can shoot a 6 inch group at 300 yards.


If you want the name of a really good lad who builds this stuff send me a PM and I will send on his details.


Three very important points.
1. The guy who does this is "NOT CHEAP".

2. He can build whatever you want to what ever price you want at the best quality. Ive recommended him to 4 people and everyone is extremely happy with the final outcome.


3. Lastly Rome wasn't built in a day so expect to put down a good deposit and wait, its a 9 month plan from the deposit unless he has what you want in stock.


Don't waste money and time with your local gun dealer, id be honest and say there is only one guy in the country for this

You could go a new build straight up from one other guy at around 2k, he could get the gun in say 3 months ish.


A 300 blackout is only an upper change and a dual calibre licence, but this isn't the good aul USA. 300 Blackout rds are not cheap

PM ME

rifle23141124

Hi JB88

I've PM'd you!

Uinseann_16

jb88 wrote: »

Don't waste your time on a straight pull AR15 for the price etc they are in the UK (Not cheap) Just save the wedge and buy an AR 15 in Semi Auto.
In fact if your thinking straight pull at all then don't, get a lighter barrelled .223 bolt gun. bit of oil to slick up the action and there is f&ck all difference, believe me ive tried both and prefer the bolt action over a straight pull, (A UK answer to their problem, not ours)


Ar 15's are strictly for the range only and that is what should be going on your written application letter to support your application. Not for going out in the field and shooting a few foxes. (But make sure you put in your application letter that you may want to do a bit of vermin control with it and ask for a MOD) Tick the box for that and put some info into your supporting letter

Go through the hastle, get a monitored alarm or have one restricted and 3 unrestricted

I think the max is 3 unrestricted and one restricted without needing a monitored alarm.

Your not buying an "assault rifle", they don't exist legally in Ireland, your purchasing a "Sporting Rifle" in semi auto .223 restricted and if you get it built by a lad in Ireland then its a custom build and it will say "Other", on your licence.


Any half decent AR 15 in the right hands prone with a sling and a 4 powered scope can shoot a 6 inch group at 300 yards.


If you want the name of a really good lad who builds this stuff send me a PM and I will send on his details.


Three very important points.
1. The guy who does this is "NOT CHEAP".

2. He can build whatever you want to what ever price you want at the best quality. Ive recommended him to 4 people and everyone is extremely happy with the final outcome.


3. Lastly Rome wasn't built in a day so expect to put down a good deposit and wait, its a 9 month plan from the deposit unless he has what you want in stock.


Don't waste money and time with your local gun dealer, id be honest and say there is only one guy in the country for this

You could go a new build straight up from one other guy at around 2k, he could get the gun in say 3 months ish.


A 300 blackout is only an upper change and a dual calibre licence, but this isn't the good aul USA. 300 Blackout rds are not cheap

PM ME

Im quite confident i know who you're talking about and would recommend him 100% if its who i think it is

Rows Grower

jb88 wrote: »

Don't waste your time on a straight pull AR15 for the price etc they are in the UK (Not cheap) Just save the wedge and buy an AR 15 in Semi Auto.
In fact if your thinking straight pull at all then don't, get a lighter barrelled .223 bolt gun. bit of oil to slick up the action and there is f&ck all difference, believe me ive tried both and prefer the bolt action over a straight pull, (A UK answer to their problem, not ours)


Ar 15's are strictly for the range only and that is what should be going on your written application letter to support your application. Not for going out in the field and shooting a few foxes. (But make sure you put in your application letter that you may want to do a bit of vermin control with it and ask for a MOD) Tick the box for that and put some info into your supporting letter

Go through the hastle, get a monitored alarm or have one restricted and 3 unrestricted

I think the max is 3 unrestricted and one restricted without needing a monitored alarm.

Your not buying an "assault rifle", they don't exist legally in Ireland, your purchasing a "Sporting Rifle" in semi auto .223 restricted and if you get it built by a lad in Ireland then its a custom build and it will say "Other", on your licence.


Any half decent AR 15 in the right hands prone with a sling and a 4 powered scope can shoot a 6 inch group at 300 yards.


If you want the name of a really good lad who builds this stuff send me a PM and I will send on his details.


Three very important points.
1. The guy who does this is "NOT CHEAP".

2. He can build whatever you want to what ever price you want at the best quality. Ive recommended him to 4 people and everyone is extremely happy with the final outcome.


3. Lastly Rome wasn't built in a day so expect to put down a good deposit and wait, its a 9 month plan from the deposit unless he has what you want in stock.


Don't waste money and time with your local gun dealer, id be honest and say there is only one guy in the country for this

You could go a new build straight up from one other guy at around 2k, he could get the gun in say 3 months ish.


A 300 blackout is only an upper change and a dual calibre licence, but this isn't the good aul USA. 300 Blackout rds are not cheap

PM ME

I though it was more than 3 of any firearm needed a monitored alarm and even one restricted on its own needed it as well.

Someone here will know for sure.

Uinseann_16

For the lads asking about security SI/307 dictates Minimum Storage requirements
I personally have been forced to go above and beyond by my super to a ridiculous point and yes they have the power to do that even if you have one gun the SI only sets out a minimum theres lads with CF pistols who have basically got bank level strong rooms to keep them
Also CPO visits arnt being done in certain districts keep that in mind
But the minimum standards are as follows
1)

(2)Type and number of firearms

(3)Secure accommodation standard

1

One non-restricted shot-gun.

The shot-gun shall be disassembled and each part shall be stored securely and separately when not in use.The trigger housing shall be secured against use with an appropriate trigger lock.

2

One restricted firearm or three or fewer non-restricted firearms.

Each firearm shall be stored securely in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.

3

Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms.

Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.

4

Three or more restricted firearms or six or more firearms, of any type, kept in the same place.

In addition to the standards specified at reference number 3, the place in which the firearms are stored shall have an intruder alarm system, installed and maintained by installers licensed by the Private Security Authority, which complies with I.S. EN 50131 or an equivalent standard approved by the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána.The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.

Rows Grower

Thanks for that Uinseann, I get bamboozled with rules and regulations but I knew someone here would put me right.

Grizzly 45

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Im quite confident i know who you're talking about and would recommend him 100% if its who i think it is

If it is the same fellah I'm also thinking of.I'd concur! He knows his ARs 100%
That idea of building one here is good too, but as said not cheap...
But then again nothing with semi auto sporting rifles is cheap here.:)
You'd be in a VERY exclusive minority shooting sport segment as well here.:).

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If it is the same fellah I'm also thinking of.I'd concur! He knows his ARs 100%
That idea of building one here is good too, but as said not cheap...
But then again nothing with semi auto sporting rifles is cheap here.:)
You'd be in a VERY exclusive minority shooting sport segment as well here.:).

Seeing as most of the firearms we shoot are American, and most of what the Americans shoot are semi-autos, then, using economies of scale, semi-auto rifles should be as cheap as chips. Things like the Ruger mini-14s, various ar's, etc etc.

Grizzly 45

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

For the lads asking about security SI/307 dictates Minimum Storage requirements
I personally have been forced to go above and beyond by my super to a ridiculous point and yes they have the power to do that even if you have one gun the SI only sets out a minimum theres lads with CF pistols who have basically got bank level strong rooms to keep them
Also CPO visits arnt being done in certain districts keep that in min

d

Remember too,that if it gets to the "Moats,with sharks,with head mounted lazer beams!" type of demands for security.Or the CS starts chnging demands on stuff that you have installed to meet the standards set out ,you can also appeal that on the grounds of "vexatious and unreasonable demands on security" .EG a monitored alarm company it must be a recognised and liscensed by the Private Security Association monitored alarm company[which all of the must be by law these days].But the Cheif cant specify which one you must use! [IE the one his drinking pal is running!] Or demanding that you instal CCTV in every room of your house etc.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

d

Remember too,that if it gets to the "Moats,with sharks,with head mounted lazer beams!" type of demands for security.Or the CS starts chnging demands on stuff that you have installed to meet the standards set out ,you can also appeal that on the grounds of "vexatious and unreasonable demands on security" .EG a monitored alarm company it must be a recognised and liscensed by the Private Security Association monitored alarm company[which all of the must be by law these days].But the Cheif cant specify which one you must use! [IE the one his drinking pal is running!] Or demanding that you instal CCTV etc.

The best security is discretion. Letting no one outside your immediate family know what you have. But i've seen the eejits strolling in and out going to the car with a case covered in Beretta or Remington stickers, cartridge belt on etc. None of my neighbours know what i have in the house, and thats the way i like it.

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

Seeing as most of the firearms we shoot are American, and most of what the Americans shoot are semi-autos, then, using economies of scale, semi-auto rifles should be as cheap as chips. Things like the Ruger mini-14s, various ar's, etc etc.

In theory ... But because they are US IMPORTS they are subject to import duty into the EU at landfall country[IE Germany as most of the EU distributors for US firearms seem to be there],VAT and some other EU taxes,proably luxury goods tax or the like.So by the time your lowly Aero Precision,DPMS or Windham is in here it has breached the 1000 euro mark already.God knows what you are paying for Noveske,HK,Knights Armament, or what the Americans rate as top gunrack firearms.[Yes,AR snobbery is a thing over there!:eek:]

So by the time you have added the whole saler costs and profit,the dealer costs and profit its climbing into 2k terrority,with a somewhat sketchy dealership and warranty.So you might as well start looking at Oberland,Schmeisser[the top notch IMO of European ARs] Hanel,SIG etc,and get a virtual custom gun for 500 euros more.

Your only other choice is get a Brownells Germany DPMS,stripped upper and lower with barrel and gasblock installed,and build your own gun around it.You could proably put a decent AR together for about 1600.

Rugers arent very cheap anymore in the US either.List price for a Ruger mini14 ranch is 1069 USD on the Ruger site.

As well as that ,remember you are running the risk here of losing it should the liscensing be revoked on any ones issued post 2017 here.We have no idea how,where,when that revocation order might be applied,so do you want to risk losing an investment grade rifle with little or zero chance of being compensated by the state for it?As apprently according to politicans and the HC judge in the O Doherty/Waters appeal.Our constitutional rights in the constitution of Ireland are not absolute rights!! IOW we havea bunch of permissions that can be revoked at any time in this country.:mad::mad::mad:

rifle23141124

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In theory ... But because they are US IMPORTS they are subject to import duty into the EU at landfall country[IE Germany as most of the EU distributors for US firearms seem to be there],VAT and some other EU taxes,proably luxury goods tax or the like.So by the time your lowly Aero Precision,DPMS or Windham is in here it has breached the 1000 euro mark already.God knows what you are paying for Noveske,HK,Knights Armament, or what the Americans rate as top gunrack firearms.[Yes,AR snobbery is a thing over there!:eek:]

So by the time you have added the whole saler costs and profit,the dealer costs and profit its climbing into 2k terrority,with a somewhat sketchy dealership and warranty.So you might as well start looking at Oberland,Schmeisser[the top notch IMO of European ARs] Hanel,SIG etc,and get a virtual custom gun for 500 euros more.

Your only other choice is get a Brownells Germany DPMS,stripped upper and lower with barrel and gasblock installed,and build your own gun around it.You could proably put a decent AR together for about 1600.

Rugers arent very cheap anymore in the US either.List price for a Ruger mini14 ranch is 1069 USD on the Ruger site.

As well as that ,remember you are running the risk here of losing it should the liscensing be revoked on any ones issued post 2017 here.We have no idea how,where,when that revocation order might be applied,so do you want to risk losing an investment grade rifle with little or zero chance of being compensated by the state for it?As apprently according to politicans and the HC judge in the O Doherty/Waters appeal.Our constitutional rights in the constitution of Ireland are not absolute rights!! IOW we havea bunch of permissions that can be revoked at any time in this country.:mad::mad::mad:

Hi Grizzly,

What do you mean on that last paragraph? Is that related to semi autos or all firearms , any links?

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In theory ... But because they are US IMPORTS they are subject to import duty into the EU at landfall country[IE Germany as most of the EU distributors for US firearms seem to be there],VAT and some other EU taxes,proably luxury goods tax or the like.So by the time your lowly Aero Precision,DPMS or Windham is in here it has breached the 1000 euro mark already.God knows what you are paying for Noveske,HK,Knights Armament, or what the Americans rate as top gunrack firearms.[Yes,AR snobbery is a thing over there!:eek:]

So by the time you have added the whole saler costs and profit,the dealer costs and profit its climbing into 2k terrority,with a somewhat sketchy dealership and warranty.So you might as well start looking at Oberland,Schmeisser[the top notch IMO of European ARs] Hanel,SIG etc,and get a virtual custom gun for 500 euros more.

Your only other choice is get a Brownells Germany DPMS,stripped upper and lower with barrel and gasblock installed,and build your own gun around it.You could proably put a decent AR together for about 1600.

Rugers arent very cheap anymore in the US either.List price for a Ruger mini14 ranch is 1069 USD on the Ruger site.

As well as that ,remember you are running the risk here of losing it should the liscensing be revoked on any ones issued post 2017 here.We have no idea how,where,when that revocation order might be applied,so do you want to risk losing an investment grade rifle with little or zero chance of being compensated by the state for it?As apprently according to politicans and the HC judge in the O Doherty/Waters appeal.Our constitutional rights in the constitution of Ireland are not absolute rights!! IOW we havea bunch of permissions that can be revoked at any time in this country.:mad::mad::mad:

There is a serious risk approaching at a rate of knots, and thats that Green band of wallys getting their feet under the top table here more than likely. So a mass shooting in America and they will jump on their soap box and we're done. That IS a serious concern to me.

Uinseann_16

rifle23141124 wrote: »

Hi Grizzly,

What do you mean on that last paragraph? Is that related to semi autos or all firearms , any links?

All centrefire semi auto rifles licenced from 2017 can be revoked without compensation:pac:

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

There is a serious risk approaching at a rate of knots, and thats that Green band of wallys getting their feet under the top table here more than likely. So a mass shooting in America and they will jump on their soap box and we're done. That IS a serious concern to me.

We already had a fore taste of that with the Green surfer chick and "survivor"of the rainbow warrior sinking in NZ Grace O Sullivan ,when the Christchurch massacre happened,and some Fianna Failure TD trying to jump on the Assault rifle ban bandwagon as well.

So dont trust ANY of them!
FG started out well and have made complete dogs dinners of any firearms legislation since they have got into power in recent history.

otmmyboy2

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They'll have a job with that. We have been there,done that,bought the Tshirt stand with semi autos on this looks like malarkey.it falls flat on 2 points. FORM does not dictate FUNCTION,and define in Irish legislation what an "assault rifle" actually is.
As these rifles were never in any shape an "assault rifle",or even look like one,as one could argue Rugers new target rifle [the XC somthing or other] also looks like an "assault rifle " too,and there is no law here what "bits" you can or cant have on a bolt action ,I'd say go for it and apply for it as a bolt action,which is what it is.

Hey Grizzly would you have a link to the case/decision regarding form and function?
Im thinking about tilting at the windmill over a 15-22 or a STG-44 22 GSG clone and could use every argument possible, since they are functionally no different to 10/22s.

Grizzly 45

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Hey Grizzly would you have a link to the case/decision regarding form and function?
Im thinking about tilting at the windmill over a 15-22 or a STG-44 22 GSG clone and could use every argument possible, since they are functionally no different to 10/22s.

Sure,just tell your super to enquire off Inspetor Paul Green,(then Sgt Paul Green) now head of the FPU in Garda HQ of any and all district court cases he was involved in the Limerick dist courts between 2009 to 14.The form Vs function and definition played a pivotal role as well as disiplines shot.
I can PM you my case name if you want ?
However they were for restricted centrefire semi autos and cf handguns.Your Super might say that why do you need a.22 AR lookalike when a wood stocked .22 SA would do the job just as well?
Just one to keep in mind.

tudderone

I have seen people in the club shooting the .22lr ar/ak clones and they had zero trouble licencing them. They are a .22 semi, the same as the 10/22. When applying you put down make, type and calibre, i don't think they are too bothered what they look like. But you will always get one that wants to be awkward for the sake of it.

otmmyboy2

tudderone wrote: »

I have seen people in the club shooting the .22lr ar/ak clones and they had zero trouble licencing them. They are a .22 semi, the same as the 10/22. When applying you put down make, type and calibre, i don't think they are too bothered what they look like. But you will always get one that wants to be awkward for the sake of it.

Unfortunately I have heard of exact models and in some cases photos being asked for in relation to the application so that the super can decide whether it is restricted or not, with the 10/22 specifically being mentioned.

Of course that differs by licencing districts because of fiefdoms, but that's another argument

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

I have seen people in the club shooting the .22lr ar/ak clones and they had zero trouble licencing them. They are a .22 semi, the same as the 10/22. When applying you put down make, type and calibre, i don't think they are too bothered what they look like. But you will always get one that wants to be awkward for the sake of it.

Just because you got a licence for it doesn't mean that you have the correct licence for it.

And the buck will stop with the gun owner if they have the wrong sort of licence.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

Just because you got a licence for it doesn't mean that you have the correct licence for it.

And the buck will stop with the gun owner if they have the wrong sort of licence.

The super was a member of the club, he knew what people were shooting. They were .22 semi-autos, no different to the ruger 10/22 or any number of different blue steel and walnut .22 semi-autos.

I can go to a shop near me and buy a non firing replica of an ak47 or ar15, they look exactly like the real thing and are completely harmless, their appearance doesn't make them dangerous.

The only issue i can see is if one of these military styled rifles were bullpups, like a Tavor or steyr AUG.

jb88

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In theory ... But because they are US IMPORTS they are subject to import duty into the EU at landfall country[IE Germany as most of the EU distributors for US firearms seem to be there],VAT and some other EU taxes,proably luxury goods tax or the like.So by the time your lowly Aero Precision,DPMS or Windham is in here it has breached the 1000 euro mark already.God knows what you are paying for Noveske,HK,Knights Armament, or what the Americans rate as top gunrack firearms.[Yes,AR snobbery is a thing over there!:eek:]

So by the time you have added the whole saler costs and profit,the dealer costs and profit its climbing into 2k terrority,with a somewhat sketchy dealership and warranty.So you might as well start looking at Oberland,Schmeisser[the top notch IMO of European ARs] Hanel,SIG etc,and get a virtual custom gun for 500 euros more.

Your only other choice is get a Brownells Germany DPMS,stripped upper and lower with barrel and gasblock installed,and build your own gun around it.You could proably put a decent AR together for about 1600.

Rugers arent very cheap anymore in the US either.List price for a Ruger mini14 ranch is 1069 USD on the Ruger site.

As well as that ,remember you are running the risk here of losing it should the liscensing be revoked on any ones issued post 2017 here.We have no idea how,where,when that revocation order might be applied,so do you want to risk losing an investment grade rifle with little or zero chance of being compensated by the state for it?As apprently according to politicans and the HC judge in the O Doherty/Waters appeal.Our constitutional rights in the constitution of Ireland are not absolute rights!! IOW we havea bunch of permissions that can be revoked at any time in this country.:mad::mad::mad:

If your worried about losing something you don't have then that's a problem, I for one will be making a legal challenge and it wont be on the basis of entitlement, nor anything to do with the constitution. I wont be alone :-)


if licences are recinded I will want compensation,and anything else is theft

Get an AR if you want one and shoot it on the range as often as you can.

Way too much scaremongering on this forum about what might happen, not the first nor second time ive mentioned this over the years.

jb88

tudderone wrote: »

The super was a member of the club, he knew what people were shooting. They were .22 semi-autos, no different to the ruger 10/22 or any number of different blue steel and walnut .22 semi-autos.

I can go to a shop near me and buy a non firing replica of an ak47 or ar15, they look exactly like the real thing and are completely harmless, their appearance doesn't make them dangerous.

The only issue i can see is if one of these military styled rifles were bullpups, like a Tavor or steyr AUG.

You can get a licence for a "Steyr AUG", I know a lad with two for sale. There is no issue with this except in peoples heads. Its actually got a longer barrel than most AR's

Mellor

tudderone wrote: »

The super was a member of the club, he knew what people were shooting. They were .22 semi-autos, no different to the ruger 10/22 or any number of different blue steel and walnut .22 semi-autos.

You're preaching to the choir. I don't think anyone here will disagree that the aesthetics has an impact on how it fires rounds.

Unfortunately, the law as written, refers to appearance. And the people making the decisions down the station, quite often don't much about how a firearm functions.

jb88 wrote: »

You can get a licence for a "Steyr AUG", I know a lad with two for sale. There is no issue with this except in peoples heads. Its actually got a longer barrel than most AR's

A Steyr AUG is definitely restricted. It's a bullpup rifle, that's unambiguous.
The guy you know that has one, presumably has a restricted license. That's all

BattleCorp

tudderone wrote: »

The super was a member of the club, he knew what people were shooting. They were .22 semi-autos, no different to the ruger 10/22 or any number of different blue steel and walnut .22 semi-autos.

I can go to a shop near me and buy a non firing replica of an ak47 or ar15, they look exactly like the real thing and are completely harmless, their appearance doesn't make them dangerous.

The only issue i can see is if one of these military styled rifles were bullpups, like a Tavor or steyr AUG.

Here's the fcuked up thing about the law. One Super might think it is unrestricted (in other words he/she isn't concerned about its appearance) and they can grant an unrestricted licence for it. 5 years down the road when the Super retires, a new Super might consider it to be a restricted firearm (based on how they view its appearance) and hey presto you don't have the correct licence. That's my take on it anyway.

LIFFY FISHING

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

All centrefire semi auto rifles licenced from 2017 can be revoked without compensation:pac:

Where does it say in that act that " all semi auto rifles licenced from 2017 ....can be revoked.." Without compensation"...
Compensation is not discussed one way or the other in the Commisioners guidelines.. have you a referance stating that comment ?

BattleCorp

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Where does it say in that act that " all semi auto rifles licenced from 2017 ....can be revoked.." Without compensation"...
Compensation is not discussed one way or the other in the Commisioners guidelines.. have you a referance stating that comment ?

There is absolutely nothing, and I mean zilch written in legislation regarding recinding semi-auto centrefire licences.

The Minister made a statement in the Dail years back, and correct me if I'm wrong, but legally speaking that has as much effect as me making a statement in the pub.

Commissioner's Guidelines aren't legislation either.

LIFFY FISHING

BattleCorp wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing, and I mean zilch written in legislation regarding recinding semi-auto centrefire licences.

The Minister made a statement in the Dail years back, and correct me if I'm wrong, but legally speaking that has as much effect as me making a statement in the pub.

Commissioner's Guidelines aren't legislation either.

If you read what I asked the poster, I asked him where he got his informstion regarding compensation...

Grizzly 45

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Where does it say in that act that " all semi auto rifles licenced from 2017 ....can be revoked.." Without compensation"...
Compensation is not discussed one way or the other in the Commisioners guidelines.. have you a referance stating that comment ?

I was para phrasing what the act says,And if you are following what I posted about my visit as FUNI rep to the DOJ in Dec on the question of compensation for surrenderd high capacity magazines, here we have been told to FO politely by both the DOJ and the EU court ruling on this too from the cases taken by the Czech Republic ,Slovakia and Poland last year...

So logically,are they going to pay you for a rifle you bought knowingly that under the 2017 legislation that such a liscense in theory cant even be liscensed,but because it isnt actually on the statue books, and we have no idea, if,how,when they might introduce suvchleaves you in legal imbo with a Damoclean sword over your head? IOW are you going to risk losing 2K worth of rifle because someone in the ministers dept thinks maybe 201 semi auto CF rifles is one to many,or 2000,or 20,000 and decides to push that paragraph into the statue book?
This is NOT to say dont go out and try and get one.I'd be the 1st to say go for it.It's just a "Cevat Emptor" of what might happen,or might not under our crazy legislation.

Mellor

BattleCorp wrote: »

Here's the fcuked up thing about the law. One Super might think it is unrestricted (in other words he/she isn't concerned about its appearance) and they can grant an unrestricted licence for it. 5 years down the road when the Super retires, a new Super might consider it to be a restricted firearm (based on how they view its appearance) and hey presto you don't have the correct licence. That's my take on it anyway.

Apart from the issues around it being irrelevant to risk.
The huge issues is that’s the law as written, involves an subjective opinion.

LIFFY FISHING

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I was para phrasing what the act says,And if you are following what I posted about my visit as FUNI rep to the DOJ in Dec on the question of compensation for surrenderd high capacity magazines, here we have been told to FO politely by both the DOJ and the EU court ruling on this too from the cases taken by the Czech Republic ,Slovakia and Poland last year...

So logically,are they going to pay you for a rifle you bought knowingly that under the 2017 legislation that such a liscense in theory cant even be liscensed,but because it isnt actually on the statue books, and we have no idea, if,how,when they might introduce suvchleaves you in legal imbo with a Damoclean sword over your head? IOW are you going to risk losing 2K worth of rifle because someone in the ministers dept thinks maybe 201 semi auto CF rifles is one to many,or 2000,or 20,000 and decides to push that paragraph into the statue book?
This is NOT to say dont go out and try and get one.I'd be the 1st to say go for it.It's just a "Cevat Emptor" of what might happen,or might not under our crazy legislation.

Who /What are FUNI ?

otmmyboy2

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Who /What are FUNI ?

Firearms United Ireland, https://www.facebook.com/FirearmsUnitedIreland/

Firearms advocacy group Europe wide.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Here's the fcuked up thing about the law. One Super might think it is unrestricted (in other words he/she isn't concerned about its appearance) and they can grant an unrestricted licence for it. 5 years down the road when the Super retires, a new Super might consider it to be a restricted firearm (based on how they view its appearance) and hey presto you don't have the correct licence. That's my take on it anyway.

Nope...He is then changing a category off his own bat from unrestricted to restricted,based on "Idontlike de look of that now!" clause. He has to be able to justify that decision and also why his pedecessor was wrong in liscensing it as unrestricted from the word go.
Only reason I could see you have a restricted .22 is simply you need a mag capacity increase for a disipline...But for what here?We dont have mini practical rifle,and unless you are shooting outside the ROI in such comps it's hardly likely you will be needing such here.Or you have one serious rabbit problem too?

The "looks like " is much too shakey ground to base a refusal on.It fell with the CF rifles,and there is no definition in law as to what an "assault rifle" looks like in Irisjh law,which no one has here anyway.We all shoot modern sporting rifles whether in CF or .22.Nor could we own an assault rifle here or in the EU legislation anyway,as it is a military select fire weapon.

Also the looks like has got precedent in HC law here in Ireland. The 1980s "Waterford tractor case" in common parlance.Concerned the definition of a "tractor",as one lad was trying to be done by Revenue for putting green diesel in a Hilux pick up he had converted to a low ground pressure sprayer with ballon tyres. It fell on the no description in Irish law as to what a "tractor" looks like or is.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nope...He is then changing a category off his own bat from unrestricted to restricted,based on "Idontlike de look of that now!" clause. He has to be able to justify that decision and also why his pedecessor was wrong in liscensing it as unrestricted from the word go.
Only reason I could see you have a restricted .22 is simply you need a mag capacity increase for a disipline...But for what here?We dont have mini practical rifle,and unless you are shooting outside the ROI in such comps it's hardly likely you will be needing such here.Or you have one serious rabbit problem too?

The "looks like " is much too shakey ground to base a refusal on.It fell with the CF rifles,and there is no definition in law as to what an "assault rifle" looks like in Irisjh law,which no one has here anyway.We all shoot modern sporting rifles whether in CF or .22.Nor could we own an assault rifle here or in the EU legislation anyway,as it is a military select fire weapon.

Also the looks like has got precedent in HC law here in Ireland. The 1980s "Waterford tractor case" in common parlance.Concerned the definition of a "tractor",as one lad was trying to be done by Revenue for putting green diesel in a Hilux pick up he had converted to a low ground pressure sprayer with ballon tyres. It fell on the no description in Irish law as to what a "tractor" looks like or is.

I agree that the Super would be on dodgy ground, but because of the sh1te subjective way the law is written, there is a bit of a footing there for a Super to act the boll1x although the likelihood is that the gun owner would win if they had the stomach for a court battle.

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nope...He is then changing a category off his own bat from unrestricted to restricted,based on "Idontlike de look of that now!" clause.

Which is exactly the subjective clause that the law uses. Not difficult to argue, but the effort involve in argument in court is a lot more than arranging a restricted license.

Which is the difference with the tractor case. He was defending himself after the fact. Gun licensing is agreed in advance.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

I agree that the Super would be on dodgy ground, but because of the sh1te subjective way the law is written, there is a bit of a footing there for a Super to act the boll1x although the likelihood is that the gun owner would win if they had the stomach for a court battle.

Its not the stomach for a court battle, its the pockets. When the centrefire pistols were stopped here in 2008, i had been made redundant like thousands of others, hadn't the proverbial pot to pee in and taking a court case when they refused to relicence my .45, was about as sensible as trying to fly to the moon with a kite.

If you win you may get your costs back, eventually.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nope...He is then changing a category off his own bat from unrestricted to restricted,based on "Idontlike de look of that now!" clause. He has to be able to justify that decision and also why his pedecessor was wrong in liscensing it as unrestricted from the word go.
Only reason I could see you have a restricted .22 is simply you need a mag capacity increase for a disipline...But for what here?We dont have mini practical rifle,and unless you are shooting outside the ROI in such comps it's hardly likely you will be needing such here.Or you have one serious rabbit problem too?

The "looks like " is much too shakey ground to base a refusal on.It fell with the CF rifles,and there is no definition in law as to what an "assault rifle" looks like in Irisjh law,which no one has here anyway.We all shoot modern sporting rifles whether in CF or .22.Nor could we own an assault rifle here or in the EU legislation anyway,as it is a military select fire weapon.

Also the looks like has got precedent in HC law here in Ireland. The 1980s "Waterford tractor case" in common parlance.Concerned the definition of a "tractor",as one lad was trying to be done by Revenue for putting green diesel in a Hilux pick up he had converted to a low ground pressure sprayer with ballon tyres. It fell on the no description in Irish law as to what a "tractor" looks like or is.

I remember when Clinton had his go at an "Assault weapons" ban in the 90's. No one could come up with a definition as to what exactly made an assault rifle an assault rifle. Black plastic stocks ? I have seen single barrel shotguns with black plastic stocks, they are not assault rifles. Flash hiders/muzzle brakes ? Plenty of bolt action rifles have muzzle brakes, especially light rifles in lairy calibres, so nope not assault rifles either. Pistol grips ? Semi-auto's, detachable magazines ? Individually nope.

So no one could say for certain exactly what an assault rifle is. As far as i know the only assault rifle for certain was the German ww2 stg44, and thats because the German military said it was an assault rifle.

otmmyboy2

tudderone wrote: »

I remember when Clinton had his go at an "Assault weapons" ban in the 90's. No one could come up with a definition as to what exactly made an assault rifle an assault rifle. Black plastic stocks ? I have seen single barrel shotguns with black plastic stocks, they are not assault rifles. Flash hiders/muzzle brakes ? Plenty of bolt action rifles have muzzle brakes, especially light rifles in lairy calibres, so nope not assault rifles either. Pistol grips ? Semi-auto's, detachable magazines ? Individually nope.

So no one could say for certain exactly what an assault rifle is. As far as i know the only assault rifle for certain was the German ww2 stg44, and thats because the German military said it was an assault rifle.

AFAIK the best, well, least worst definition of an assault rifle was a select fire(semi & auto/burst), intermediate calibre(ie 5.56 NATO) rifle.

However given that full auto/burst is off the books for pretty much everyone here then there are no true "assault rifles" here, thus the licencing should be a non issue.

In a more ideal world anyway.

tudderone

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

AFAIK the best, well, least worst definition of an assault rifle was a select fire(semi & auto/burst), intermediate calibre(ie 5.56 NATO) rifle.

However given that full auto/burst is off the books for pretty much everyone here then there are no true "assault rifles" here, thus the licencing should be a non issue.

In a more ideal world anyway.

Yup, select fire between semi and full auto is the biggie and as you say is a no-no here in the first place.

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

Which is exactly the subjective clause that the law uses. Not difficult to argue, but the effort involve in argument in court is a lot more than arranging a restricted license.

Which is the difference with the tractor case. He was defending himself after the fact. Gun licensing is agreed in advance.

As in this case you would have one super disagreeing with a pre agreed definition of his colleuge,ergo after the fact...Anyways, the facts remain it is precedent HC case on terminology in Irish law.

Also, remember too the State in the form of the super or cheif is now also liable for costs under the Dist court act as welll,at the judges discretion,but sofar they have awarded costs in most cases.So there is that factor to be considerd as well in refusals.

TBH,I reckon all this "restricted because it looks like" is basically them making you work for it People who are serious about owning one will put the effort in and take it to the brink or the court doors,those who are just "Meh I want one beecause..." will blink and fold at the obstacle course. It's just a theory on my part,but it seems plausabile considering those who do dare win.

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

Its not the stomach for a court battle, its the pockets. When the centrefire pistols were stopped here in 2008, i had been made redundant like thousands of others, hadn't the proverbial pot to pee in and taking a court case when they refused to relicence my .45, was about as sensible as trying to fly to the moon with a kite.

If you win you may get your costs back, eventually.

Think it is best summed up by this ... If you dont fight for what you want,dont cry for what you lost! It's a tough one I know and I had to borrow 5K from the credit union for this lark too. Which I could have done without as well:mad: It was a huge gamble,but thats just me and i understand anyone who couldn't do it either.But there were others who were gambling with much higher stakes than me in the High court,where it is tens of thousands to play. So I was standing on the shoulders of a few giants.:)

But ,no they were quick enough to pay up when I and six others won in in Limerick.All settled in my case within 4 weeks.

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

I remember when Clinton had his go at an "Assault weapons" ban in the 90's. No one could come up with a definition as to what exactly made an assault rifle an assault rifle. Black plastic stocks ? I have seen single barrel shotguns with black plastic stocks, they are not assault rifles. Flash hiders/muzzle brakes ? Plenty of bolt action rifles have muzzle brakes, especially light rifles in lairy calibres, so nope not assault rifles either. Pistol grips ? Semi-auto's, detachable magazines ? Individually nope.

So no one could say for certain exactly what an assault rifle is. As far as i know the only assault rifle for certain was the German ww2 stg44, and thats because the German military said it was an assault rifle.

I lived in CA at the time of Clintons Crime bill,which did nothing to stop any crime at all.It was an unmitigated clusterfuk.CA went by features,and I had at the time a MAK 90 Chinese AK copy,with a "thumbhole stock" ,no flash hider,but a muzzle break I added,no cleaning rod,in case I decided to poke someone with it,ditto a missing bayonet lug too.as drug dealers are well known for bayonet charges. Yet I had a whole bunch of E German 30 round AK mags,bought legally from Shotgun News,because the MAK 90 was not on the CA assault weapons ban list. Two years later I moved to Scottsdale AZ,and it was like moving to a different planet. The Arzionainas were completely perplexed by this CA aberation of a stock,and I was planning to get it converted to a proper wood stock of Western person proportions,before I came home for a family crisis,and have been stuck here since...

GW Bush finally sunsetted this nonsensecial bill,as it had done nowt obviously to reduce gun crime,and proved that scary features dont make a gun anymore deadlier except in Hoplopophobes tiny minds. Ironically ,my MAK 90 in the CA ban version is now worh double the 450 usd I paid for it in CA in 1993.:P

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As in this case you would have one super disagreeing with a pre agreed definition of his colleuge,ergo after the fact...

The previous agreed description isn't legally fixed however. So the next super can describe it differently. This is the issue with a subjective assessment forming part of a law.
I donlt know if any wording could be perfect, but t could certainly be better

TBH,I reckon all this "restricted because it looks like" is basically them making you work for it People who are serious about owning one will put the effort in and take it to the brink or the court doors,those who are just "Meh I want one beecause..." will blink and fold at the obstacle course. It's just a theory on my part,but it seems plausabile considering those who do dare win.

Probably tbh.

I wonder is a list of decisions, where the courts decided the status of X or Y would benefit other.