Lean too roof

2012paddy2012

Any views in this great “ roof” that’s a qualified carpenter / builder constructed ?

Tech screws with no rubber protectors !

Very considerable movement on the sheets / not secured properly

Any advice how to remedy

listermint

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Any views in this great “ roof” that’s a qualified carpenter / builder constructed ?

Tech screws with no rubber protectors !

Very considerable movement on the sheets / not secured properly

Any advice how to remedy

You've opened 3 threads on this.

2012paddy2012

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Any views in this great “ roof” that’s a qualified carpenter / builder constructed ?

Tech screws with no rubber protectors !

Very considerable movement on the sheets / not secured properly

Any advice how to remedy

Cannot delete these please delete as boards wil not allow add video please DELETE ALL THREE I’ll try again on laptop

muffler

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Cannot delete these please delete as boards wil not allow add video please DELETE ALL THREE I’ll try again on laptop

you need to report the original posts

2012paddy2012

muffler wrote: »

you need to report the original posts

Ok to who ? Thanks

2012paddy2012

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Any views in this great “ roof” that’s a qualified carpenter / builder constructed ?

Tech screws with no rubber protectors !

Very considerable movement on the sheets / not secured properly

Any advice how to remedy

No knowledge of roofing ( I know!!! It’s fairly obviously bad)

Any further view on how to correct this job ?

Thanks

listermint

It does appear he used roofing screws which appear to have black gaskets on them btw.

muffler

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Ok to who ? Thanks

You have 3 threads on this topic so pick one to stay with and report the first post in the others. In the dialogue box that opens when you click on report ask the forum mods to either delete the other 2 or if there are any replies maybe they could merge them into one single thread.



Forum mods dont have time to read every post so asking on thread for something or other wont register on most occasions. When you report a post (your own or someone elses) the mods are notified automatically. Hope that helps.

tabby aspreme

That roof needs more bridging between the rafters, perspex like that would need support across it's width at least every metre, ideally every every 60cm, the rafters should have had 3✖2 laths across them, with a screw in both sides and every second or third corrugation, as it is the wind will take it away.

Are you sure it was a proper carpenter, a load of sign writing on a van or a website doesn't make a carpenter

2012paddy2012

tabby aspreme wrote: »

That roof needs more bridging between the rafters, perspex like that would need support across it's width at least every metre, ideally every every 60cm, the rafters should have had 3✖2 laths across them, with a screw in both sides and every second or third corrugation, as it is the wind will take it away.

Are you sure it was a proper carpenter, a load of sign writing on a van or a website doesn't make a carpenter

I was caught out 10 years ago by a cowboy 🀠
So for this job I checked reviews he tells me he is a carpenter and a builder , yap has it on van !!!
I’m shocked if that’s the case how it seems he made a complete hash of this ... I wouldn’t mind he was dearer than other quotes I got.

Really there needs to be a trading standards here like the uk .. thank god it wasn’t a proper extension I got him to do!! Lucky escape ! He is coming back Monday I printed off the information re what should be done ... on the 10 feet x 2 feet sheets how many “ curves “ should extend over each sheet ? Thanks

Paddy

2012paddy2012

tabby aspreme wrote: »

That roof needs more bridging between the rafters, perspex like that would need support across it's width at least every metre, ideally every every 60cm, the rafters should have had 3✖2 laths across them, with a screw in both sides and every second or third corrugation, as it is the wind will take it away.

Are you sure it was a proper carpenter, a load of sign writing on a van or a website doesn't make a carpenter

Appreciate this .

oleras

Do you mind me asking what he charged for that job ? You can PM me if you dont want to say publicly.

2012paddy2012

oleras wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what he charged for that job ? You can PM me if you dont want to say publicly.

Materials around / patio slabs / timber etc etc ... around a grand ... or slightly more ..

1200 labour

I’m happy with it , needs the extra timber to secure
The perplex , he has acknowledged it was not done correctly . Remedy on Monday !!

I will update photo then if your interested

listermint

Perspex

jacko

Looks terrible, a qualified 'carpenter' should be ashamed of it.
Are all the screws put into the valleys of the perspex? That's totally incorrect and will only lead to leaking. Tell your carpenter he owes you for new sheeting and get him to do it correctly.

2012paddy2012

jacko wrote: »

Looks terrible, a qualified 'carpenter' should be ashamed of it.
Are all the screws put into the valleys of the perspex? That's totally incorrect and will only lead to leaking. Tell your carpenter he owes you for new sheeting and get him to do it correctly.

Should the screws be in the valleys ?

2012paddy2012

listermint wrote: »

Perspex

Thanks indeed.

2012paddy2012

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Thanks indeed.

ACRYLIC SHEETS PERSPEX SHEET

Same thing

2012paddy2012

jacko wrote: »

Looks terrible, a qualified 'carpenter' should be ashamed of it.
Are all the screws put into the valleys of the perspex? That's totally incorrect and will only lead to leaking. Tell your carpenter he owes you for new sheeting and get him to do it correctly.

He seems to have majority in the ( flat) valley ? part of the sheet , wound have thought that that was correct to get good contact between the sheet and timber Batton.

How much area of each sheet ( 10 x2) should be overlapping on each sheet.

I told him it was a poor job he admits it. Then he tells me to buy 60 tech screws “ cheers!!” Needs few more battons .. / screws

I want to tell him Monday exactly what to do !
I’m educating myself ... thanks for all the tips ...

All he tells me is don’t mind them they are “ trolls”
At this stage he had an answer for everything .

Lastly , not a hope he will buy new sheets gone way over budget anyway despite his assurance initially he had all he needed. ...as he got me to get 60 tech screws I’m presuming he is going to remove all the screws on it , to put the battons on and re affix sheets with the new screws , if he uses the holes made by the first tech screws will that be secure enough

GinSoaked

On round corrugated sheets the screws go on the high points period. On square section corrugated sheets then the screws go in the valleys.

You have to be a little careful not to over tighten the screws when they are on the ridges because you can change the profile of the sheet if you over do it.

Overlap is up to you there should normally be one full section overlap, ridge over ridge. Then you screw through the ridge so one screw goes through two sheets. Agricultural buildings often only have a half section overlap to save on materials but its not as waterproof but cows aren't that bothered.

listermint

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

ACRYLIC SHEETS PERSPEX SHEET

Same thing

No you keep writing perplex in this thread and your other two.

It's Perspex.


The guy in the DIY shop will be perplexed if you come in.

2012paddy2012

listermint wrote: »

No you keep writing perplex in this thread and your other two.

It's Perspex.


The guy in the DIY shop will be perplexed if you come in.

Super. When you just tried “Perspex” with nothing else , I thought you might be , slagging off the product or something like that !!! Appreciate the assistance , very good . Thanks

GinSoaked

Whats wrong here is that the roof should have been cross battened on top of the main framework and the sheets screws to the battens. The problem here is that there aren't enough locations to screw the sheets down to so a lot of the screws are in the wrong places.

2012paddy2012

GinSoaked wrote: »

On round corrugated sheets the screws go on the high points period. On square section corrugated sheets then the screws go in the valleys.

You have to be a little careful not to over tighten the screws when they are on the ridges because you can change the profile of the sheet if you over do it.

Overlap is up to you there should normally be one full section overlap, ridge over ridge. Then you screw through the ridge so one screw goes through two sheets. Agricultural buildings often only have a half section overlap to save on materials but its not as waterproof but cows aren't that bothered.

Thank you , I think I’ve a pic on , it’s for me , screws into the valleys I think , it’s done that way thanks ...and minimum on full ridge at least , and the screw through the two sheets ... that is great to know thank you.

2012paddy2012

GinSoaked wrote: »

Whats wrong here is that the roof should have been cross battened on top of the main framework and the sheets screws to the battens. The problem here is that there aren't enough locations to screw the sheets down to so a lot of the screws are in the wrong places.

100 % that is what he said , when I sent him a video of the sheets , showing extreme movements and gaps ... he took a chance and thankfully I saw the issue so quickly as I feel now he is a chancer thanks a mill , the annoying thing is I love it other than this !!!! Roll on Monday !!!ps any issue using same holes and then more when new battons are in and replacement tech screws fitted?

2012paddy2012

listermint wrote: »

It does appear he used roofing screws which appear to have black gaskets on them btw.

Yes

GinSoaked

Hard to know how to fix that now the holes have been drilled. If you move sheets then some of the holes will be in the wrong place.

There are some proper screws and washers for plastic sheets like that video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk2__zxXRRc note the size of the washer and they do work better in the valleys.

2012paddy2012

GinSoaked wrote: »

Hard to know how to fix that now the holes have been drilled. If you move sheets then some of the holes will be in the wrong place.

There are some proper screws and washers for plastic sheets like that video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk2__zxXRRc note the size of the washer and they do work better in the valleys.

Ok ta if he reuses the old holes , the fact that they have been drilled already won’t matter? Same size screw going back in ?

GinSoaked

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Ok ta if he reuses the old holes , the fact that they have been drilled already won’t matter? Same size screw going back in ?

Some manufacturers recommend you drill an over sized hole to allow for expansion but thats only with the correct washers like in the video that cover a large area. I've never done that but I do make sure the hole is big enough so it doesn't bind on the screw thread.

Note that imo they put the screws in a little to tight in the video you can see the sheet deforming. Some say you should still be able to turn those washers by hand when the screw is fully tight. I just put the screws in until the sheet just starts to bend.

2012paddy2012

GinSoaked wrote: »

Some manufacturers recommend you drill an over sized hole to allow for expansion but thats only with the correct washers like in the video that cover a large area. I've never done that but I do make sure the hole is big enough so it doesn't bind on the screw thread.

Note that imo they put the screws in a little to tight in the video you can see the sheet deforming. Some say you should still be able to turn those washers by hand when the screw is fully tight. I just put the screws in until the sheet just starts to bend.

Brilliant , thanks

jacko

He's using tech screws and putting them in the valleys as he's either lazy or simply doesn't have a clue, pure chancer. I wouldn't be using them on a roof that I want to last. Look up screws for corrugated sheets and tell him to use them in the high part of the sheets as designed and to pre-drill holes for them. The washers that come with the screws should fit the profile of the sheets properly, he should not tighten too much as perspex will bend. The cross battens are important especially for plastic as they are relatively flimsy and need support. Plenty of videos online to see how it should be done. https://youtu.be/5Vk5-EhY9Dk. (foam spacers probably overkill)

2012paddy2012

jacko wrote: »

He's using tech screws and putting them in the valleys as he's either lazy or simply doesn't have a clue, pure chancer. I wouldn't be using them on a roof that I want to last. Look up screws for corrugated sheets and tell him to use them in the high part of the sheets as designed and to pre-drill holes for them. The washers that come with the screws should fit the profile of the sheets properly, he should not tighten too much as perspex will bend. The cross battens are important especially for plastic as they are relatively flimsy and need support. Plenty of videos online to see how it should be done. https://youtu.be/5Vk5-EhY9Dk. (foam spacers probably overkill)

Do the screws as in the pics go in the hollow or higher part of the plastic ??which is it... I thought it was the hollow/ lower part

jacko

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Do the screws as in the pics go in the hollow or higher part of the plastic ??which is it... I thought it was the hollow/ lower part

High part for corregated sheets like that. If you think about it, the water will be travelling in the hollow and why would.you put holes there.

2012paddy2012

jacko wrote: »

High part for corregated sheets like that. If you think about it, the water will be travelling in the hollow and why would.you put holes there.

Good point ! He had most in the low part !!!! OMG I know how to pick them !

jacko

Be prepared for: you don't know what you're talking about, that's the place where they usually go, it makes no difference..... And any other excuse he can come up with, as I assume your carpenter will no doubt try to fob u off.

Anyway, best of luck with the repairs/remediation, hope you get many years of use from the roof.

Leo Demidov

2012paddy2012 wrote:

Good point ! He had most in the low part !!!! OMG I know how to pick them !

Flip the sheets over so the valley's become the ridges, problem solved?

GinSoaked

Leo Demidov wrote: »

Flip the sheets over so the valley's become the ridges, problem solved?

Worth investigating but because there are no counter battens on the roof the plastic sheets have been screwed to the joists and noggings which aren't all in a line so I suspect some holes will be above thin air.

mickdw

When the cross battens are installed, the existing holes will not line up with the batten so id say that some perspex needs replacing.
Some will work out as the holes are reasonably lined up in places but some not.

chooseusername

GinSoaked wrote: »

Whats wrong here is that the roof should have been cross battened on top of the main framework and the sheets screws to the battens. The problem here is that there aren't enough locations to screw the sheets down to so a lot of the screws are in the wrong places.

This /\ plus this

2012paddy2012

Leo Demidov wrote: »

Flip the sheets over so the valley's become the ridges, problem solved?

Lads last thing !!!! When I sent this “carpenter “ a video of the state of the sheets , so loose , he said “ the sun wouldn’t be helping matters “
Google would say these sheets would stand up to serious heat ... it was warm last week alright , I wouldn’t have thought the sun in this country would affect that type of sheeting ? In fact it’s made for outside exactly for this type of job ...

Any comments !?

vicwatson

The sun would not affect them. Your “carpenter” sounds like he’s full of it.

Bullocks

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Lads last thing !!!! When I sent this “carpenter “ a video of the state of the sheets , so loose , he said “ the sun wouldn’t be helping matters “
Google would say these sheets would stand up to serious heat ... it was warm last week alright , I wouldn’t have thought the sun in this country would affect that type of sheeting ? In fact it’s made for outside exactly for this type of job ...

Any comments !?

Ya , more chance the sun affected your chippie than the Perspex.
The roof needs the 3 X 2 battens to be right , I don't think they would have been worth skipping to save a few bob .
Off with the sheets again , put in the battens and resheet. Ideally you would get new sheets but realistically neither of ye will want to pay for that so you will probably get away with using silicon and stitcher screws to seal any old holes that aren't sitting over timber .
I would insist on tech 7 brand of silicon for this as I find it beats all the others for sealing out water and longevity on a roof
Be worth asking him why the sheets are so off square with rafters as well for the craic . Love to hear his excuse for that one ....

jacko

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Lads last thing !!!! When I sent this “carpenter “ a video of the state of the sheets , so loose , he said “ the sun wouldn’t be helping matters “
Google would say these sheets would stand up to serious heat ... it was warm last week alright , I wouldn’t have thought the sun in this country would affect that type of sheeting ? In fact it’s made for outside exactly for this type of job ...

Any comments !?

He's trying to come up with excuses for shoddy work. "A poor tradesman always blames his tools" comes to mind. Cross battens should have been in place from the start. Correct fixings to hold the perspex to the timber. And any places where perspex joins along the edge that need support should have been bolted/fastened together where needed. He clearly didn't have adequate overlapping of sheets along the edge. Cut your losses, get him to remedy what he can and send him packing, obviously you shouldn't be paying him anything extra.

tabby aspreme

For anybody thinking of putting up a similar structure to the OP, take a look at using multi wall polycarbonate sheets, instead of the corrugated sheeting, it's slightly more expensive to buy, but would need less timber to support it, and is a much stronger product.

LFC Murphy

tabby aspreme wrote: »

For anybody thinking of putting up a similar structure to the OP, take a look at using multi wall polycarbonate sheets, instead of the corrugated sheeting, it's slightly more expensive to buy, but would need less timber to support it, and is a much stronger product.

Where can they be sourced in Dublin?

chooseusername

vicwatson wrote: »

The sun would not affect them. Your “carpenter” sounds like he’s full of it.

Probably talking about expansion.
Anyhow here's how to do it properly,including use of the rigid foam fillets;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vk5-EhY9Dk

tabby aspreme

LFC Murphy wrote: »

Where can they be sourced in Dublin?

365 Plastics in Ashbourne , take a look at there website

2012paddy2012

Bullocks wrote: »

Ya , more chance the sun affected your chippie than the Perspex.
The roof needs the 3 X 2 battens to be right , I don't think they would have been worth skipping to save a few bob .
Off with the sheets again , put in the battens and resheet. Ideally you would get new sheets but realistically neither of ye will want to pay for that so you will probably get away with using silicon and stitcher screws to seal any old holes that aren't sitting over timber .
I would insist on tech 7 brand of silicon for this as I find it beats all the others for sealing out water and longevity on a roof
Be worth asking him why the sheets are so off square with rafters as well for the craic . Love to hear his excuse for that one ....

Your very funny. He is here now with a face on him !! Lol , I think before we had a chat he had intended to put a few lathe here and there asking me to pint out the “ issue” I told him that there should be more battens all the way across the width of the sheets and he has done that just now it’s on secure and he was up on it and fitted the tech screws to the new battens , it’s 100 per cent better and very secure. I also mentioned that if the tech screws he has already on over tight he wasn’t allowing sufficiently for , expansion / contraction ... happy he has sorted that also.


Otherwise I was always happy with the way it was done , roll of lead with small insert into wall above to keep out water , and good job with patio slabs

All good , thanks for all the help

Leo Demidov

2012paddy2012 wrote:

Your very funny. He is here now with a face on him !! Lol , I think before we had a chat he had intended to put a few lathe here and there asking me to pint out the “ issue†I told him that there should be more battens all the way across the width of the sheets and he has done that just now it’s on secure and he was up on it and fitted the tech screws to the new battens , it’s 100 per cent better and very secure. I also mentioned that if the tech screws he has already on over tight he wasn’t allowing sufficiently for , expansion / contraction ... happy he has sorted that also.

2012paddy2012 wrote:

Otherwise I was always happy with the way it was done , roll of lead with small insert into wall above to keep out water , and good job with patio slabs

Any finished pics for us?

ratracer

tabby aspreme wrote: »

365 Plastics in Ashbourne , take a look at there website

That looks like a good job, thanks for the heads up.

Hope you get sorted OP.

I’m in the planning stages of something similar here, and this thread has provided the perfect example of what not to do, including trusting a ‘builder’ Thanks for sharing.

mickdw

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Your very funny. He is here now with a face on him !! Lol , I think before we had a chat he had intended to put a few lathe here and there asking me to pint out the “ issue” I told him that there should be more battens all the way across the width of the sheets and he has done that just now it’s on secure and he was up on it and fitted the tech screws to the new battens , it’s 100 per cent better and very secure. I also mentioned that if the tech screws he has already on over tight he wasn’t allowing sufficiently for , expansion / contraction ... happy he has sorted that also.


Otherwise I was always happy with the way it was done , roll of lead with small insert into wall above to keep out water , and good job with patio slabs

All good , thanks for all the help

Did he remove sheeting, fit battens right across then refit sheeting directly to battens or as i fear did he just cut some battens and fit them between existing to get some addition fixing points?