Are we working too much?

LuasSimon

Covid has led to many of us been at home out of the blue , for some its not easy at home all the time but for others it gives familys a time to be together, maintain your home, take in the basic things in life before we're too old or sick.

Prior to covid lockdown are we all in a ratrace?...two parents working, no time with family, too wrecked after work to enjoy life?..by the time we retire we're not fit for much , life is passing us all bye... working and working???

pgj2015

Of course we are. most people only have 2 days out of 7 for themselves. That cant be right, I usually work 7 days a week but for myself and I enjoy the work and have no dependants.

eastie17

Funnily enough, working even longer hours since the COVID restrictions and am working from home. Its all about discipline and yes while I am seeing everyone more, finding it harder to be "present" because work is now at home and home is now at work if that makes sense. The drive home was a good destressor often did some exercise on the way home and was then totally mentally in home mode. Finding it hard to separate the two now.

malinheader

Between painting and maintenance both inside and out I for one will be glad to get back to work for a break.

punisher5112

Yes, yes, yes yes way too much....


Last recession our work load was increased, hours, time etc many perks removed, never returned. Pat cuts and taxes etc....

Then we get back to even busier times and get nothing back...

Now we will be hit even worse and then before and I'm not looking forward to it...

Montage of Feck

Makes you realise just how much of what we consider work is just pointless filler.

s1ippy

Since I watched the film In Time with Justin Timberlake I completely changed my perception of the time I spend working. Not even joking, the premise is brilliant.

LuasSimon

I know a couple both of them never worked much , honest enough but lazy. They collect and drop their children to school , can drop in a lunchbox if forgotten , they can go their childrens school matchs, go to early evening training etc etc , always together. Go for drives during summer holidays to local parks-beachs etc..They may not have much money but they always do a few nights away in Ireland.

Contrast that with couples both working, up early to drop children in creches-childminders who then bring them to school. If teachers ring up during the day - big hassle. Parents rarely there to collect children after school or have their dinner with them. Parents come home tired after long day . All weekend catching up on housework...yes probably get a summer holiday together but thats only 2 weeks of year..children are gone to college before parents know it

There must be a better way than both parents working full on ...

corner of hells

malinheader wrote: »

Between painting and maintenance both inside and out I for one will be glad to get back to work for a break.

I'm working longer hours but in work less , its fix this , move that , paint that , we need a new one of them.

She is overseeing the building of a patio at the moment, while I keep reminding her of Brookside.

Lewis_Benson

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm working longer hours but in work less , its fix this , move that , paint that , we need a new one of them.

She is overseeing the building of a patio at the moment, while I keep reminding her of Brookside.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/nostalgia/brooksides-famous-patio-20-years-8533312

ELM327

Am working more hours now I'm at home with no commute or not much to do.
Netflix gets boring :P

Revit Man

As a poster above said, since I've been working from home for the pandemic my work days are melding in with my home life in a bad way. There's no division any more. Work isn't getting full attention because.. home. And home isn't getting full attention because.. work.

I don't know. I liked going in and leaving my job in the office and coming home and not having to think about it til the morning again. People will cry "that's just ill discipline! treat your work day like you would have, up at X time, shower, dress and be at your desk for Y time", yeah, wonderful in principle, but my life isn't working that way at home.

NIMAN

Great point Revit Man.....your work is your work, and your home is your home. The 2 shouldn't mix.
They didn't in my life for nearly 30 years, now its all blurred.

Curious all, if your employer offered you a day off per week/4 day week and a 20% cut in wages, would you take it?

Thelonious Monk

Yes it's ridiculous. Why not just have things closed at weekends and more often and just slow everything down a bit, and we can have more time off? It's great seeing so many people out and about in parks and exercising these days because they're not at work or stuck in traffic going to some retail park to buy crap they don't need. I wish we didn't have to go back to the old ways.

Revit Man

NIMAN wrote: »

Great point Revit Man.....your work is your work, and your home is your home. The 2 shouldn't mix.
They didn't in my life for nearly 30 years, now its all blurred.

Curious all, if your employer offered you a day off per week/4 day week and a 20% cut in wages, would you take it?

Mine did one better NIMAN. They gave us a 20% paycut... for a 100% week thanks to Covid-19!

eviltwin

I'm still working as normal. I'm lucky that the job I'm in has 12 hour shifts so I have four days off each week. I used to do the 9-5 and it wouldn't be for me anymore. I use one of my off days to clean the house and do any errands and the other three are for fun. My other half has an office job and he seems to be constantly in work mode.

Trigger Happy

Most of us are working a hell of a lot less than our parents and grand parents. Less hours and less physical work.

But that said, I would love to cut down to a 4 day week. Would happily take a 20% pay cut and reckon I would be a lot more productive in those 4 days.

ELM327

I used to work 4 * 10 hour days years ago when I was a shift worker, liked it at the time but I'm used to my 9-5 these days.

Revit Man

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Most of us are working a hell of a lot less than our parents and grand parents. Less hours and less physical work.

I know, but there was an element of 1 man, 1 job = mortgage paid, food on the table, run a car, and support 3 kids. That day is gone.

Maybe it's because I'm in the middle of it and one of them now, but it seems that work today is more stressful than before. Even when I started working in 2007 in this line of work to now, it's a world apart. The pace has accelerated due to technology.

More is expected in the same time, everything must be quicker, hurry, hurry!

EDIT:

Just to add, I know part of the problem today is materialism. We all want the holiday abroad, or the nice car, or Sky TV and broadband and gadgets, which hoover up money. If we led a simpler live at home ourselves now, perhaps life would be less stressful. Some time away from all the screens.. he says, typing at a screen.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

LuasSimon wrote: »

I know a couple both of them never worked much , honest enough but lazy. They collect and drop their children to school , can drop in a lunchbox if forgotten , they can go their childrens school matchs, go to early evening training etc etc , always together. Go for drives during summer holidays to local parks-beachs etc..They may not have much money but they always do a few nights away in Ireland.

Contrast that with couples both working, up early to drop children in creches-childminders who then bring them to school. If teachers ring up during the day - big hassle. Parents rarely there to collect children after school or have their dinner with them. Parents come home tired after long day . All weekend catching up on housework...yes probably get a summer holiday together but thats only 2 weeks of year..children are gone to college before parents know it

There must be a better way than both parents working full on ...

This is the problem. Someone has to pay for family A. Family B are paying for them to have all this free time, on the states buck. If family A did a little more then maybe family b c and d could do a little less

pgj2015

Revit Man wrote: »

I know, but there was an element of 1 man, 1 job = mortgage paid, food on the table, run a car, and support 3 kids. That day is gone.

Maybe it's because I'm in the middle of it and one of them now, but it seems that work today is more stressful than before. Even when I started working in 2007 in this line of work to now, it's a world apart. The pace has accelerated due to technology.

More is expected in the same time, everything must be quicker, hurry, hurry!

There are a lot of people working extra hours for free as well.

ELM327

Blakely Chubby Rollerblade wrote: »

This is the problem. Someone has to pay for family A. Family B are paying for them to have all this free time, on the states buck. If family A did a little more then maybe family b c and d could do a little less

This is the problem. If more people stopped using phrases like "on the states buck" and instead "on the buck of taxpayers" then perhaps the self entitlement would stop

Trigger Happy

ELM327 wrote: »

This is the problem. If more people stopped using phrases like "on the states buck" and instead "on the buck of taxpayers" then perhaps the self entitlement would stop

Isn't that it though? The idea that the dole is a lifelong entitlement and sure it's only free money.
Nothing is free. And it should not be acceptable or expected that society sponsors some people for a life on the dole.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

It’s a sad fact that they’re actually better off not working. And it’s monkey see, monkey do. Some people’s sheer self entitlement is totally galling, no pride or no sense of responsibility, just what they’re owed by everyone else

Mister Vain

Yes, its only now I realise just how stressful and exhausting my job was. I'd like to see the 4 day work week introduced here.

unhappys10

Blakely Chubby Rollerblade wrote: »

It’s a sad fact that they’re actually better off not working. And it’s monkey see, monkey do. Some people’s sheer self entitlement is totally galling, no pride or no sense of responsibility, just what they’re owed by everyone else

I worked in a social welfare office one Summer in college.
I rember this one coming in one day, payment hadn't arrived.
She started shouting "I didn't get my wages this week" and "where is my money".

Her wages being the dole,
This is the attitude you're dealing with.

Temptamperu

You can blame it on the poor but its the politician with his dirty hands in your pocket.

unhappys10

Temptamperu wrote: »

You can blame it on the poor but its the politician with his dirty hands in your pocket.

Why can't it be both?
And believe me, a lot of those dole lifers are far from poor.

Thelonious Monk

Revit Man wrote: »

Just to add, I know part of the problem today is materialism. We all want the holiday abroad, or the nice car, or Sky TV and broadband and gadgets, which hoover up money. If we led a simpler live at home ourselves now, perhaps life would be less stressful. Some time away from all the screens.. he says, typing at a screen.

A lot of this stuff is pushed on us by the capitalist machine. I mean if in Ireland clothes shops never opened again or furniture shops I bet we could all have enough furniture and clothes to last us the rest of our lives, fast fashion and clothes being one of the biggest polluters on the planet. Then you have phones that stop working as you can't put the latest OS on them etc.
The current system is designed for us to buy more and more and more and the only goal of governments is to keep growing the economy and getting people to spend more and consume like there's no tomorrow. We live on a finite planet. The whole system makes me sick and it needs to change or we're all doomed.

LuasSimon

Blakely Chubby Rollerblade wrote: »

It’s a sad fact that they’re actually better off not working. And it’s monkey see, monkey do. Some people’s sheer self entitlement is totally galling, no pride or no sense of responsibility, just what they’re owed by everyone else

If your a couple with only one person working in a modest job getting 500 a week you definetly would be better off at home . Many couples are both working to pay the mortgage and childcare-college ....burnt out when they get to late 50s -60.

pgj2015

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

A lot of this stuff is pushed on us by the capitalist machine. I mean if in Ireland clothes shops never opened again or furniture shops I bet we could all have enough furniture and clothes to last us the rest of our lives, fast fashion and clothes being one of the biggest polluters on the planet. Then you have phones that stop working as you can't put the latest OS on them etc.
The current system is designed for us to buy more and more and more and the only goal of governments is to keep growing the economy and getting people to spend more and consume like there's no tomorrow. We live on a finite planet. The whole system makes me sick and it needs to change or we're all doomed.

No one is forced to buy anything. I had a samsung phone I bought for 80 euro for about 7 years. was just reading about the highest paid footballer at chelsea, he drive a mini cooper that he bought 5 years ago and he said before he bought it that he would walk to training. I only buy clothes when I need them. I shop in Lidl and Alidi, I can afford to go to higher end stores but whats the point? some people are just bad with money, it is there own fault.

Gynoid

Blakely Chubby Rollerblade wrote: »

This is the problem. Someone has to pay for family A. Family B are paying for them to have all this free time, on the states buck. If family A did a little more then maybe family b c and d could do a little less

There was no mention of them getting state support.

punisher5112

Revit Man wrote: »

As a poster above said, since I've been working from home for the pandemic my work days are melding in with my home life in a bad way. There's no division any more. Work isn't getting full attention because.. home. And home isn't getting full attention because.. work.

I don't know. I liked going in and leaving my job in the office and coming home and not having to think about it til the morning again. People will cry "that's just ill discipline! treat your work day like you would have, up at X time, shower, dress and be at your desk for Y time", yeah, wonderful in principle, but my life isn't working that way at home.

If you can make an office... In the attic it better still a shed out back....

Get it that it's away from the norm....

I work from home quite often or alone in a remote office so it’s not much different for me work wise since the lockdown. I like working from home personally and am actually happy to be doing it full time rather than some of the time and I’m in no rush to go back having to make an appearance in the office regularly.

I work probably slightly more hours but with no commute it means less than a normal work day plus commute. I have no issues around mixing work and home life, I have a stand-alone office but I would often be doing a bit of work, reading emails etc anyway at home in the evening even if going to the office in the day. This doesn’t bother me, it’s part of having fexible job really imo.

Leg End Reject

I'm enjoying the break from the drudgery of the working week. I'm still working from home but get things done quickly without the distractions of other people.

No commute, no stress in the morning and no clock watching. I've more energy to do things about the house too. If I could see my family and friends I'd be having a great time.

FixdePitchmark

It probably has highlighted how pointless most work is.

The stress of travel
All the pointless emails
Lads in work to show they have done long hours - making others do long hours to match them,
then these are not even in work at all now

I think this thing was a full reset on many peoples outlook - it was a career break you never expected. And was much needed for some.

We were going to work to still pay a USC 10 years on -

I made the point to a few friends - some people will miss and miss the opportunity of lock down when it is gone, if you can get your head around that.

anewme

Revit Man wrote: »

Just to add, I know part of the problem today is materialism. We all want the holiday abroad, or the nice car, or Sky TV and broadband and gadgets, which hoover up money. If we led a simpler live at home ourselves now, perhaps life would be less stressful. Some time away from all the screens.. he says, typing at a screen.

I'm totally in agreement with you that the days have just melted into one another and I also have no separation between work and home. It is fine for a while, but not good constantly. I would have been someone who did extra hours in the office anyway, but this is worse. Almost like no shutdown.

Also agree re materialism, but I'm going to admit, I like my lifestyle and sometimes you makes those sacrifices. I have a real fear of being poor, so this is my trade off. Only you can decide if its worth it or not.

0lddog

LuasSimon wrote: »

I know a couple both of them never worked much , honest enough but lazy. They collect and drop their children to school , can drop in a lunchbox if forgotten , they can go their childrens school matchs, go to early evening training etc etc , always together. Go for drives during summer holidays to local parks-beachs etc..They may not have much money but they always do a few nights away in Ireland.

Contrast that with couples both working, up early to drop children in creches-childminders who then bring them to school. If teachers ring up during the day - big hassle. Parents rarely there to collect children after school or have their dinner with them. Parents come home tired after long day . All weekend catching up on housework...yes probably get a summer holiday together but thats only 2 weeks of year..children are gone to college before parents know it
...

Anyone hazard a guess as to which of these two hypothetical families has the lower carbon footprint ?

Tony EH

Yes.

malinheader

0lddog wrote: »

Anyone hazard a guess as to which of these two hypothetical families has the lower carbon footprint ?

Is that you Eamon.

anewme

0lddog wrote: »

Anyone hazard a guess as to which of these two hypothetical families has the lower carbon footprint ?

I suppose it's down to your own moral code. If people can holiday in Ireland, which is expensive in itself, drop children to school and
Fanny about driving to beaches etc without working too much, maybe the issue is the welfare state is too good and the gap to full time working needs to be revised.

0lddog

anewme wrote: »

I suppose it's down to your own moral code........

That, but there are many other factors that have not been disclosed


- Prehaps one of the kids has issues that needs a parent nearby ?
- Perhaps one of the parents has some sort of medical issue ?
- Perhaps they act as carers to the extended family
- Perhaps there is a low level of education in one family and a high level in the other
- Quizás, quizás, quizás


There are a zillion factors at play


Lets just be glad that we are not all the same

Dr. Bre

A 4 day week has to come . Less pay but at least less day in work

Still waters

anewme wrote: »

I suppose it's down to your own moral code. If people can holiday in Ireland, which is expensive in itself, drop children to school and
Fanny about driving to beaches etc without working too much, maybe the issue is the welfare state is too good and the gap to full time working needs to be revised.

As was said earlier their was no mention of welfare help, they dont work much could mean they both have part time jobs, small mortgage/rent and no loans, it can be done and plenty manage on very little, i know id prefer to spend more time with my kids than working 60 hour weeks and letting childminders rear my kids

jrosen

How do you get the balance though?
I work PT husband FT. I want to work. I find being at home boring. I love what I do. BUT for us both to work it means planning on the days we are home to cover the days we are gone. Busy evenings with the kids at activities, most Saturdays gone at matches.

I have loved the slower pace of this lock down and am really enjoying being present in the moment more. I am thinking ill drop a day when I return to work.

anewme

0lddog wrote: »

That, but there are many other factors that have not been disclosed


- Prehaps one of the kids has issues that needs a parent nearby ?
- Perhaps one of the parents has some sort of medical issue ?
- Perhaps they act as carers to the extended family
- Perhaps there is a low level of education in one family and a high level in the other
- Quizás, quizás, quizás


There are a zillion factors at play


Lets just be glad that we are not all the same

We can only go with what we know.

The language used was " honest but lazy". That's lack of ambition and work ethic.

In your haste to apportion blame on people working to do better for themselves on being at fault for creating carbon footprints, you forgot to consider that people working pick up the tab for those "honest but lazy" types.

Let's be very glad we are not the same, indeed. You should bear that in mind when looking down on a couple both working to have a life and a future for their family , instead of praising those taking the "lazy" option.

anewme

Still waters wrote: »

As was said earlier their was no mention of welfare help, they dont work much could mean they both have part time jobs, small mortgage/rent and no loans, it can be done and plenty manage on very little, i know id prefer to spend more time with my kids than working 60 hour weeks and letting childminders rear my kids

Lets be honest, if you dont work much, it would be very difficult to have a small mortgage, run a house, run a car and drive to beaches etc and holiday in Ireland.

"lazy' as used in the OP is nothing to be lauded or to aspire to.

0lddog

anewme wrote: »

...
The language used was " honest but lazy". That's lack of ambition and work ethic...

Might be.


Might also be 'almost unemployable' ( I've worked with a fair few of those over the years )


I dont get the 'apportion blame' thing


You cant blame someone who cant pass the leaving for not being, say, an Engineer or Doctor

anewme

0lddog wrote: »

Might be.


Might also be 'almost unemployable' ( I've worked with a fair few of those over the years )


I dont get the 'apportion blame' thing


You cant blame someone who cant pass the leaving for not being, say, an Engineer or Doctor

It's you who has the blame hat on....guess who has the least carbon footprint folks......yep, the lazy fookers who wouldn't get out of bed to scratch themselves. Surprise, surprise!

Still waters

anewme wrote: »

Lets be honest, if you dont work much, it would be very difficult to have a small mortgage, run a house, run a car and drive to beaches etc and holiday in Ireland.

"lazy' as used in the OP is nothing to be lauded or to aspire to.

I have a very small mortgage, i could work 3 days a week and still live comfortably after paying the mortgage, i don't do that but could if i wanted, 2 people working part time with child support could live comfortably enough, just giving a different perspective on it of course without knowing full details

anewme

Still waters wrote: »

I have a very small mortgage, i could work 3 days a week and still live comfortably after paying the mortgage, i don't do that but could if i wanted, 2 people working part time with child support could live comfortably enough, just giving a different perspective on it of course without knowing full details

I have a small mortgage, after working 30 years commuting.
Example used was lazy people vs. people working full time.

The lazy people were being celebrated for having a smaller carbon footprint.

We'd all have smaller carbon footprints if we did sweet fanny Adams and didn't work much for whatever reason.