Did our grandparents get it right re marriage and dating?

Antares35

lozenges wrote: »

Exactly. I think there's still a massive societal expectation that heterosexual couples will have kids just because that's the way it always has been. More so for women than men. I think most men don't think about it that much, because they assume that virtually all women want kids and therefore they'll just end up with them at some point.

There are some exceptions to that, there are one or two men I know that very definitely want kids, but they're not the majority by a long stretch.

The thing is as well that if you have kids without thinking about it that much, and regret it - you're almost certainly not going to talk about that much, because you would come in for massive criticism from other parents.
Understandably in some ways - once you have kids you have a responsibility to put their needs first, however you feel about that decision. But you don't hear that side of the narrative much.

I hear it from my own mother sometimes. Especially when I say we are just having one child - she agrees wholeheartedly that one is enough - and I was her second :P

I think the dishonesty is a real thing, even in pregnancy. Truth be told, I have hated pregnancy. At times I felt like I was losing my mind. I didn't crave salads and fruit, I only wanted pizza and bread. I missed drinking and smoking and never had that "ooh I don't even feel like drinking" moment. I've been an antichrist for 38 weeks and at times I don't know how my partner did not walk out on me - there is nothing I wont say when those hormones rage. Other people talk about "glows" and baby showers etc. and I've just been miserable for what feels like 5 years. I'm also pure terrified of labour, the pain, the whole process. I'm afraid of dying and leaving my partner alone to raise a child.

But it is almost a sin to be honest about that - you're expected to be some salad munching superwoman with a permanent glow and you can feel like a failure when the reality is far from that.

While I am excited to meet my daughter, I will probably not have another child. I don't think I could do that to myself or my partner to be honest.

lozenges

Antares35 wrote: »

I hear it from my own mother sometimes. Especially when I say we are just having one child - she agrees wholeheartedly that one is enough - and I was her second :P

I think the dishonesty is a real thing, even in pregnancy. Truth be told, I have hated pregnancy. At times I felt like I was losing my mind. I didn't crave salads and fruit, I only wanted pizza and bread. I missed drinking and smoking and never had that "ooh I don't even feel like drinking" moment. I've been an antichrist for 38 weeks and at times I don't know how my partner did not walk out on me - there is nothing I wont say when those hormones rage. Other people talk about "glows" and baby showers etc. and I've just been miserable for what feels like 5 years. I'm also pure terrified of labour, the pain, the whole process. I'm afraid of dying and leaving my partner alone to raise a child.

But it is almost a sin to be honest about that - you're expected to be some salad munching superwoman with a permanent glow and you can feel like a failure when the reality is far from that.

While I am excited to meet my daughter, I will probably not have another child. I don't think I could do that to myself or my partner to be honest.

It's really refreshing to hear that. Re your mum - me and my twin were unplanned. My mother always wanted children but objectively her life (single mother with twins) was a lot harder during those years than if she hadn't had children.

There are massive positives to having a child, and obviously for most people they more than balance out the negatives. It's when people pretend that the negatives don't exist that really bugs me.

eviltwin

I think we're getting better. It's easier to be honest these days. I have always said I work to get away from my kids, I love them but I couldn't be with them all the time, couldn't be with anyone all the time.

I used to get judged for that but I don't anymore. Now I get empathy. People don't expect martyrdom from mothers anymore. My daughter doesn't want children and is very vocal about it and I've never heard anyone say she will change her mind. That's progress.

lozenges

eviltwin wrote: »

I think we're getting better. It's easier to be honest these days. I have always said I work to get away from my kids, I love them but I couldn't be with them all the time, couldn't be with anyone all the time.

I used to get judged for that but I don't anymore. Now I get empathy. People don't expect martyrdom from mothers anymore. My daughter doesn't want children and is very vocal about it and I've never heard anyone say she will change her mind. That's progress.

That's good. To be fair most of the time I hear it it would be from work colleagues from predominantly Muslim backgrounds and I know no harm is meant by it, it's a cultural thing. If I do hear it from Irish people it would be those of my grandparents generation.

lozenges

lozenges wrote: »

Exactly. I think there's still a massive societal expectation that heterosexual couples will have kids just because that's the way it always has been. More so for women than men. I think most men don't think about it that much, because they assume that virtually all women want kids and therefore they'll just end up with them at some point.

Nope. I don't think you're accurate there. The discussion about having kids will likely rear it's head during the early relationship period, and again, when you're introducing the woman to your mother/father. The aspect of having kids tends to come then, as the practicalities are discussed. At least, that's when it happened for me. .

There are some exceptions to that, there are one or two men I know that very definitely want kids, but they're not the majority by a long stretch.

Whereas I'm a clear minority among the guys I know, in that I don't care. It's my partners choice. Her body, her decision. However, most guys I know definitely want children someday. Perhaps not in their twenties, but by the time, their thirties come along, they're definitely talking about it. Many of our group conversations in a bar will have someone talk about their kids, and invariably, questions about having kids will arise for those in a relationship or single.