UK registered car in Ireland and the rules of who can drive?

techguy

Hello all,

It's been a while, hope ye are all well in this crazy time!

So, I live in the UK, and have done the past 5 years and will do for the future. That said, I would like to have a car here in Ireland for when I am home to drive around in. Great!

The car will be on UK plates and conform to the UK system, which is fine by Ireland, as long as no Irish residents drive the car, with the exception of a chauffeur.

Question: What is the minimum requirement to get a chauffeur status for an Irish resident? Not intending on serving general public.

The reason I ask is that if the car needed servicing my dad might need to drive the car to/from garage etc, or the mechanic even.

Has anybody got experience of this? Before I get a barrage of "this car is for your dad, smart arse!" Let me assure you, it is not. He will have no interest in this as he is not into cars and the engine would be far too thirsty for him to bother.

The problem I am aiming to solve here is that it's a pain in the arse when I come home having to borrow the parents cars and not being able to stay away overnight as they need the cars. Renting is a pain for other reason.

Welshprince

Why not simply have an Irish registered car? If you had a UK one wouldn't you have to take it back for MOT's? The costs involved make your idea seem a waste of time and money. Seems to me that you will be just creating a whole load of complications, why not just hire a car for the odd times you might be here? You seem to be wanting to create the most difficult situation imaginable without exploring simpler options.

techguy

Hi Welshprince

Welshprince wrote: »

Why not simply have an Irish registered car? If you had a UK one wouldn't you have to take it back for MOT's?

Well you could MOT it in the North of Ireland.

Welshprince wrote: »

The costs involved make your idea seem a waste of time and money.

Maybe.. i'm just playing around with an idea and the whole chauffeur thing was something I was always curious about..

Welshprince wrote: »

Seems to me that you will be just creating a whole load of complications, why not just hire a car for the odd times you might be here?

Well it's a W221 S Class I would be thinking of buying so to rent something comparative would not be so easy.

Welshprince wrote: »

You seem to be wanting to create the most difficult situation imaginable without exploring simpler options.

Well this is just incorrect based on assumptions.. I have explored other options... just exploring this one too. While this may seem more expensive on the face of it, it could be more convenient in other ways?

blackbox

To the best of my knowledge, customs & excise can seize a foreign car being driven by an Irish resident.

The car is going to be here permanently?

Why do you think you can avoid registering in Ireland? Your UK insurance is likely to be void also unless you tell them the car is going to be permanently in Ireland at which point they'll likely stop insuring you or hike the premium.

biko

Without looking too hard I'd say a "chauffeur" needs a SPSV licence.
Tbh, just buy an Irish car.

freddyuk

Insurance will be invalid. There is a question about where the car is kept for starters and as soon as you say Ireland it will be cancelled. The insurance is OK for "visiting/holidays" in Ireland. Legally you are pretty stuffed and the Garda are pretty hot on checking UK registrations now. AFAIK there is no legal way to do what you plan and high danger of getting the car confiscated.

techguy

Thanks guys.

Thanks for the input - I have spoken with my insurer they have advised that it is business as normal for the car in Ireland, as long as I am only using when over here on holiday etc, so the usual limits on foreign travel exist.

Agreed on foreign cars being driven by Irish residents.

The problem with having it on Irish plates.. is that the insurance here is at "peak nonsense" in my opinion and coupled with the road tax of around €1800 odd it is just silly.

Not sure why I should bare those costs when what I am exploring (keeping UK plates) is legitimate and a concession offered by the Irish government.

Before you lose the run of the context of this thread.. this is not a tax evasion issue. I legitimately do spend about 11 months each year in the UK but want a nice run around for when back in Ireland.

Lemming

techguy wrote: »

I legitimately do spend about 11 months each year in the UK but want a nice run around for when back in Ireland.

What about storage of the car? How shall it be stored? Indoor/outdooor? What sort of costs will you incur there? etc.

TBH, with the money spent on the car (to include general maintenance over time), insurance, etc. combined with the depreciation in value over time, for the little usage that the car will get in any given year would you not be better off just renting a car for the few weeks in any given year?

Isambard

you can only import a car and keep it on UK plates temporarily. You are looking to import the car permanently and thus must re-register it.

techguy

Lemming wrote: »

What about storage of the car? How shall it be stored? Indoor/outdooor? What sort of costs will you incur there? etc.

TBH, with the money spent on the car (to include general maintenance over time), insurance, etc. combined with the depreciation in value over time, for the little usage that the car will get in any given year would you not be better off just renting a car for the few weeks in any given year?

Will be stored at my parents on private property.

I have a line on a car that I will be able to get for very little, so after a couple of years use, it will have paid for itself.

The S class I want to get has the same engine as my E350 here in the UK, which I know intimately and repair myself. I have a number of cars here in the UK so adding one more won't hurt add much to the insurance.

Del2005

techguy wrote: »

Well you could MOT it in the North of Ireland.

How far from Northern Ireland are your parents?

washman3

blackbox wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge, customs & excise can seize a foreign car being driven by an Irish resident.

LOL Joke of the year. :P
Have you ever been to Rathkeale Co.Limerick.
It's the Irish reg cars that stand out..!!!

maestroamado

techguy wrote: »

Thanks guys.

Thanks for the input - I have spoken with my insurer they have advised that it is business as normal for the car in Ireland, as long as I am only using when over here on holiday etc, so the usual limits on foreign travel exist.

Agreed on foreign cars being driven by Irish residents.

The problem with having it on Irish plates.. is that the insurance here is at "peak nonsense" in my opinion and coupled with the road tax of around €1800 odd it is just silly.

Not sure why I should bare those costs when what I am exploring (keeping UK plates) is legitimate and a concession offered by the Irish government.

Before you lose the run of the context of this thread.. this is not a tax evasion issue. I legitimately do spend about 11 months each year in the UK but want a nice run around for when back in Ireland.

I think you should talk to your dads insurance company.
All insurance policies cover the insurer to drive any other car so your dads insurance covers dad.
All insurance policies cover driver for upkeep and repair so your own insurance covers this.
Just have a good look down through the covered/not covered in both Insurance documents and i expect you be ok.
I expect that you better clear with insurance just to be sure...

colm_mcm

Would it not be easier to get a ferry across?

techguy

maestroamado wrote: »

I think you should talk to your dads insurance company.
All insurance policies cover the insurer to drive any other car so your dads insurance covers dad.
All insurance policies cover driver for upkeep and repair so your own insurance covers this.
Just have a good look down through the covered/not covered in both Insurance documents and i expect you be ok.
I expect that you better clear with insurance just to be sure...

Thanks, I will do.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would it not be easier to get a ferry across?

Unfortunately not.. I'm in London, so it takes quite a while and costs a bomb on fuel.

PukkaStukka

Why go to.all that hassle and bother with this enterprise which could see the Customs or Gardai confiscate your vehicle? If your using it here and earning from it, it'll have to be reregistered.

Even at that, if the vehicle is expensive to run, would you not be better off getting a more economic one? Your hard won earnings are being poured into the bfuel tank and burnt out through the exhaust?

techguy

techguy wrote: »

costs a bomb on fuel.

You seem to have managed something most of us can't do. Have a second car and for it to be less expensive than driving from London to Wales and back. Not sure how you've managed it, but fair play.

maestroamado

just by pure coincidence i was talking to a retired man living in UK and doing the exact same as you.
I just said why he have car in garage in this weather.
He said that his insurance will only insure outside UK for 3 Months at any one time.
He also said as a UK resident he is only allowed have car here for 3 weeks on holiday.
He said some friend of his went to get a car registered as they owned the car in UK for whatever time is (6 Months he said)
The guy in the VRT office would not do so he had to return the car to UK and produce ferry receipt for VRT.
I am just repeating what he said. This person also London and car here full time.

freddyuk

How do you qualify based on the law as it stands? After 12 months "exemption" you either remove the car or apply to the Revenue for an exemption which you will not get as I read it. Also anyone established in the State cannot drive it. Of course you could drive across the border each 12 months but when asked for the paper proof the game will be up.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/reliefs-and-exemptions/temporary-exemption.aspx

TrailerBob

techguy wrote: »

Thanks, I will do.



Unfortunately not.. I'm in London, so it takes quite a while and costs a bomb on fuel.

It takes about 4 and half hours from the M25 to either Holyhead or Fishguard, and another 3 to cross.. by the time you factor in travel to airports, waiting for flights, getting collected and driving to your parents, you're only losing a couple of hours really, and a tank of fuel should get you there.. (I've regularly done Carlow to the north of France through the UK on a tank in a full loaded 3 litre landcruiser)... Not exactly a massive cost.

This, plus I don't actually think what you're planning is legal, but I could be wrong. You say you're not tax dodging, but you want to keep a car permanently in the state, and you don't feel you should have to pay the high tax and insurance rates in the state.. cake and eat it...

jjmcclure

freddyuk wrote: »

How do you qualify based on the law as it stands? After 12 months "exemption" you either remove the car or apply to the Revenue for an exemption which you will not get as I read it. Also anyone established in the State cannot drive it. Of course you could drive across the border each 12 months but when asked for the paper proof the game will be up.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/reliefs-and-exemptions/temporary-exemption.aspx

Not sure you can even avail of this relief. I believe there is a sentence in the legislation which goes "the non resident returns to their country of residence regularly with the vehicle"



I had a similar situation when I first moved to Dublin from NI. As I was not married and my family ties were in the north I di not need to register the car but did need to "return to my country of residence (due to family ties) regularly with the vehicle"



Don't think you can leave it here permanently based on the law.

whippet

It’s quite simple really - the OP wants to own a car in Ireland without having to comply with Irish legal requirements.

It isn’t possible legally. So any workaround you are looking at is effectively against the current laws and can lead to the car being taken from you.

redcup342

I was in this scenario as a Dutch Resident with my Primary interests abroad, home in Holland, Working in Germany and travelling back frequently to Ireland.

I checked with Revenue and it was perfectly fine, although no Irish Resident can drive the car.

From an Insurance perspective my Dutch Insurer would only cover Third Party Only (ex fire and theft) after 90 days as per EU Regs.

It's a fairly common scenario, you have a holiday home or second residence and have your vehicle registered to your first residence.

However OP I looked into it fairly extensively back then and it wasn't possible for anyone else to drive the car (Irish Resident) from a revenue perspective even through from an Insurance Perspective it was fine.

zilog_jones

techguy wrote: »

The problem with having it on Irish plates.. is that the insurance here is at "peak nonsense" in my opinion and coupled with the road tax of around €1800 odd it is just silly.

If you're only here for one month a year, you'd only need one month motor tax i.e. €180 (assuming pre-2008 >3 litres), and declare it off the road for the rest of the year.

I think you'd be asking for trouble if you have a UK registered car that is permanently residing in Ireland.

maestroamado

zilog_jones wrote: »

If you're only here for one month a year, you'd only need one month motor tax i.e. €180 (assuming pre-2008 >3 litres), and declare it off the road for the rest of the year.

I think you'd be asking for trouble if you have a UK registered car that is permanently residing in Ireland.

Minimum tax period 3 Months and if €1,800 annual, likely €500 for 3 Months.
I think the OP is like i was when younger "dodging bullits"

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

Minimum tax period 3 Months and if €1,800 annual, likely €500 for 3 Months.
I think the OP is like i was when younger "dodging bullits"

Need to VRT it to tax it.

Davidth88

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would it not be easier to get a ferry across?

This jumped to mind too.

Not sure where you would be in Ireland but I used to drive London to/from Kildare on a reasonably regular basis , it's not too bad, although you do get to curse Birmingham and be careful not to speed through North Wales .

With the current situation regarding flights I reckon it could be a while before flights become as easy as they were 6 weeks ago ( and as cheap ) .

freddyuk

redcup342 wrote: »

I was in this scenario as a Dutch Resident with my Primary interests abroad, home in Holland, Working in Germany and travelling back frequently to Ireland.

I checked with Revenue and it was perfectly fine, although no Irish Resident can drive the car.

From an Insurance perspective my Dutch Insurer would only cover Third Party Only (ex fire and theft) after 90 days as per EU Regs.

It's a fairly common scenario, you have a holiday home or second residence and have your vehicle registered to your first residence.

However OP I looked into it fairly extensively back then and it wasn't possible for anyone else to drive the car (Irish Resident) from a revenue perspective even through from an Insurance Perspective it was fine.

VRT rules state this:
Private Use

2. What Conditions Apply

Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person is not
required to be registered in Ireland subject to the following conditions:

• The vehicle must have been acquired with all the appropriate taxes paid and these must not
  have been exempted or refunded in any way. The standard registration plates in use in the
  domestic market of a country are normally accepted as evidence of this.
• The vehicle may not in any circumstances be driven by a State resident.
• The vehicle may not be disposed of or hired out in the State or lent to a State resident.
• The period of time that the vehicle is in the State does not exceed 12 months.
• A longer period may apply where a person is on a task of definite duration in
  the State.

I am fairly certain that a holiday is not a "task of definite duration"..........

Isambard

freddyuk wrote: »

VRT rules state this:
Private Use

2. What Conditions Apply

Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person is not
required to be registered in Ireland subject to the following conditions:

• The vehicle must have been acquired with all the appropriate taxes paid and these must not
  have been exempted or refunded in any way. The standard registration plates in use in the
  domestic market of a country are normally accepted as evidence of this.
• The vehicle may not in any circumstances be driven by a State resident.
• The vehicle may not be disposed of or hired out in the State or lent to a State resident.
  The period of time that the vehicle is in the State does not exceed 12 months.
• A longer period may apply where a person is on a task of definite duration in
  the State.

I am fairly certain that a holiday is not a "task of definite duration"..........

interesting to see confirmation that you may not (sell or) dispose of a foreign registered car.

Marcusm

Isambard wrote: »

interesting to see confirmation that you may not (sell or) dispose of a foreign registered car.

That’s a condition to avail of the temporary exemption for VRT for the foreign resident. It serves to make them liable for the VRT not to be precluded from selling it.

ahusband

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113342281#Comment_113342281

Only authorised persons can keep non registered cars in the state regardless of being on private property or not, so unless your parents have a TAN number you will need to register the car in the state and pay the VRT as its not a transfer of residence.

whomitconcerns

It's not legal/tax compliance, and your insurance will be invalid.

I drive from London to Ireland a few times a year, it certainly doesn't cost a bomb. I use about 40l diesel in a 3l car in the drive.

And if you can afford to own and insure a car in another country, to be used a few times a year, then it's a bit l non cost at all..

mgbgt1978

Lads, the OP asked the question over 1 1/2 years ago. It's probably safe to assume he has things sorted by now.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285807#Comment_118285807

And whatever they decided on, Brexit probably screwed up the arrangement

techguy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285807#Comment_118285807

Lol.. yea, nice thread revival though.

I'm still here, not really decided on anything, but I am currently not letting anybody drive my cars as they are not allowed. I am still "normally resident" in the UK as I am here only temporary, so cars still on HRH plates.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118281701#Comment_118281701

So that's all incorrect. There is a set of exemptions outlined on the Revenue site. I am not normally resident here and thus I can have a car here without it being registered here. I have neither a TAN nor have I engaged in the ToR process, as I am returning to the UK soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286993#Comment_118286993

It didn't. All good here.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442060#Comment_118442060

Sure. I bet they've never come up against such a clever strategy before. Couldn't possibly fail.