What's your attitude to work? Does it mean the world to you?

snoopboggybog

I just find this really interesting. My attitude to work is go in, do what needs to be done and get out of their on time ever single day. I do barely what needs to be done.

I have other colleagues on my team who would be happy to work till 11PM every single night of the week and include work to be done out of hours when it doesn't need to be done then. These same colleagues include my manager on emails trying to catch people out constantly out.

My manager is delighted with what I do and would get a promotion before these fools. Going on the beer for a match or something if I had work the next day would not stop me either.

Is it just that they have very little going on in their life and hate going back to their families?

Does work really mean that much to people? And before someone quotes that i'm not pulling my weight the work there doing out of hours can be done anytime during the work day and are not urgent whatseover.

We are not under pressure whatsoever.

Working smarter not harder tends to be a good practice. There's a lot of presentism out there i.e. must be seen to be in the office - ha!, well Covid has certainly put paid to that nugget TG.

I know of a few people who through the years that would be in the office from early morning until about 6-7 in the evening- most of these were married but no kids. I never really knew what they did all day, but their head was down and didn't lift until lunchtime. Their characteristics tended to be:

1. Very intense when you spoke to them- i.e. very forced conversation - they always look like the just wanted to go back to their desk
2. No apparent interests outside of work
3. Obviously no family of their own

In the early years, i would nearly feel guilty leaving the office when they were still there- but I got over this quite quickly as I was putting in decent hours myself- I wasn't going to get into a competition as to who can stay the longest in the office.

People with young families have a natural, nearly built in, motivation to do what they have to do in work, so they can get out and back home to look after their family- if you don't have something pressing to get you out of the office, I find that people will tend to stay longer, usually unnecessarily.

These days, the focus should be on outputs, not time spent at a desk or in the office. Most people I know will spend longer than their paid hours but have a huge degree of flexibility around how they organise their time/ home work vs office work etc- I'd take flexibility and a few extra hours a week over rigid 9-5 presentism any day.

LimeFruitGum

I think a lot of it is down to company culture and where you are on the totem pole. I was on this brutal project as a lowly coordinator years ago - I once tried to leave 8pm and my manager was like 'Where do you think you're going?!'. But she soon quit because of stress! Last I heard, she was working as a library assistant. She just couldn't manage resources or negotiate with senior management or the customer and it meant 5-7 people would be working til 10pm 5 nights a week for a year because she had massively underestimated the program. It was during the recession, and there weren't many jobs going.

In my current workplace, the building is locked at 7pm, and most of us logout between 4-5pm anyway. Unless you take your laptop home, you couldn't stay late even if you wanted to. Brilliant

I think these people have developed bad working habits or stuck in an inefficient process. If they want to spend all night updating spreadsheets instead of learning a few formulas that would automate the work for them (or whatever), that is a productivity problem.

skallywag

snoopboggybog wrote: »

These same colleagues include my manager on emails trying to catch people out constantly out.

What exactly do you mean by that, can you give some examples?

In general I have often also come across people who are exactly the same. The majority of them I would say just genuinely really enjoy the work they are doing, and get a kick out of it.

It is not the way I would ever operate myself, but if they want to live their lives this way, then off with them. I get the feeling from the tone of your post that you seem to have an issue with these colleagues, and it is rubbing you up the wrong way in some sense. Why is that? You mention yourself that your manager is delighted with you. Why not just leave these guys off and not give them two more thoughts?

dfx-

There seems to be a trend in the thread about those who stay late. I do what can be done inside the normal day, but would tend to come in later and stay later.

I don't understand the people who are in very early by choice. In and emails sent by 7.15am when most people start arriving at 9-9.30

Mr_Muffin

I honor my contract, which is currently 37.5 hours a week. I would often put in a couple more hours a week if I am enjoying the current project I am working on, which also means I can take a few hours off here and then when needed. It evens itself out.

I've worked with people in the past who put in 60-70 hours weeks at their own accord. If someone on my team is like this, I make sure to have a chat with my manager/boss and let them know that I can't/won't compete with that, especially if said person is relying on my tasks to be completed so they can do theirs.

DoozerT6

dfx- wrote: »

I don't understand the people who are in very early by choice. In and emails sent by 7.15am when most people start arriving at 9-9.30

Those hours may suit some people. I myself would happily start work at 7am if it meant I could guarantee a finish time of 3 or 4pm. I've had a couple of jobs that involved earlier starts and I find I actually prefer it - although I don't have kids etc. so only have to think of myself in this scenario. Also, my finish times (shiftwork) were pretty much set in stone, which helps. If nothing else, you're missing most of rush hour! Less traffic means less commuting time, which means you may not be getting up much earlier that you would with a 9am start.

In terms of the OP, I may have been ok with those hours I mentioned, but I have genuinely never had a job that meant anything to me personally. For me, it's always been "got bills, need job". In every case I could have walked away without a backwards glance. I've never really experienced job satisfaction, the only satisfaction is my wages at the end of the month.

LimeFruitGum

My main reason for going in early is to keep my commute time down. I don't want to be crawling the M50 at peak times, it would take me about 1hr-1hr 15. If I go early, my drive is 40m. Other reason is that I only deal with EMEA in my role, so I don't need to stay late to catch the US or anything like that.

I found myself thinking about work in my home time far more than usual lately so I’ve taken a complete step back now. Work phone and laptop stay on the desk now and I’m in a minute before starting and out on the dot of 5. Not worth it, the more you do the more you’re expected to do and the more you’re walked on.
If I do start going in early again (to avoid traffic when it starts back up) I won’t be answering anything until 8:30 on the dot.

PropJoe10

I work 40 hours per week in a job I dislike quite a lot. I have pride in my work and do the best that I can do, but don't work a minute outside the required time per week and especially at the moment, have zero motivation to do any extra on top of the bare requirements of my job. Purely a way to earn a living for me right now.

Tork

I like to think I do more than "barely enough" but you won't find me taking lunch at my desk or working late. When I was in my early 20s and in my first proper job, I put in extra effort and worked late. I soon wised up to that and learned that there is nothing to be gained from doing that. In fact, it makes you be taken for granted. Pfffft. I pride myself on doing a good job and will sometimes go the extra mile. I am mostly the one who's going home at 5:00 and won't be thinking about work until the morning though. I'm long enough working to know that busting a gut and being really good at your job doesn't always lead to a promotion.

thenightman

Go in, do my job as best I can for the hours I'm required and go. Employer doesn't care about you, sooner people realise that the better. If they want extra work either staying outside normal hours or coming in at the weekend then I want OT. All our big bosses are working from home, but we are required come in on a day on/day off basis. The bosses are constantly uploading patronising videos from home to the intranet praising us for our hard work, would be more appreciated if they organised a lunch delivery out of their 6 figure salaries or something

Galwayguy35

I work hard for the 8 hours I'm there then clock out and forget about it.

Cobalt17

Generally 10 hours a day. I love my job so I don’t mind the extra work. Plus end of year performance bonuses are always super tasty.

unhappys10

LimeFruitGum wrote: »

I think these people have developed bad working habits or stuck in an inefficient process. If they want to spend all night updating spreadsheets instead of learning a few formulas that would automate the work for them (or whatever), that is a productivity problem.

I think some of them just have nothing else to be at or have no lives outside work.

In my work place (finance department) we work on excel all the time. Very monotonous stuff where we have monthly excel files to post to our accounts package.
Involves going in each month, changing dates, descriptions, figures etc
Now a figure could be say 500 for a year, so it'd be 500/12*3*1.0956. 3 being the month and 1.0956 being the fx rate. A lot of manual crap to change. One company's excel could take a couple of hours to prepare and post, been this way for ages.
The others haven't a clue about excel.
I designed a template with vlookups etc that auto updates everything. A couple of hours work is now 10mins.
Offered to share it with the others, explained the above via email and they didn't reply!
I'll quite happily keep it to myself and when all this is over I'll be telling the FC about it and use it to negotiate a couple of days a week from home.

tastyt

Work is for fools !!!

Unfortunately I’m one of those fools that has to do it. Work for a big company and understand fully I am but a number. People who don’t believe this and believe the corporate bull**** peddled are genuinely deluded.

I work hard and diligently, do a bit of overtime when needs be but I can see the bigger picture. I earn just enough to pay the mortgage , bring family on a holiday once a year and be able to enjoy things like Christmas and maybe a weekend here or there. I can also have a few stress free pints a month or couple of meals out .

I have always believed that’s enough and this Covid has really hammered it home, sure what else is there .

I have given serious thought to going for a promotion to the next level over the last couple of years but what’s an extra 10k when you weigh up all the bull****, stress , nonsense and responsibilities that would come with the job, doesn’t seem worth it for a hundred quid more a weak.

Unless I was guaranteed mega mega money I will never stress or worry about work, il do it right and be a good employee but they can all **** off at 5 every day and especially Friday, I have a family and friends to be with and if I’m lucky a nice few ice cold bottle of suds to tuck into.

That’s what life is all about

HalloweenJack

I take pride in my work. I go in, do my job as best as I can and when my shift is over, I leave. I go home and forget about work until the next day. We have flexi-time and paid overtime so, if needed, I will help out to get a project over the line.

If the business were mine or if it was a job I was truly passionate about it, maybe I'd have a different attitude. I don't understand why people put so much effort into jobs (unpaid overtime, working weekends, etc.), especially when it does lead them anywhere.

My passion is my hobby but I'm far from turning it into something that'll pay my way through life.

LimeFruitGum

unhappys10 wrote: »

The others haven't a clue about excel.
I designed a template with vlookups etc that auto updates everything. A couple of hours work is now 10mins.
Offered to share it with the others, explained the above via email and they didn't reply!
I'll quite happily keep it to myself and when all this is over I'll be telling the FC about it and use it to negotiate a couple of days a week from home.

That's brilliant - any manager should be delighted that an employee came up with something like this. It's amazing how people get their backs up when you try to alleviate the miserable drudge work off them.

unhappys10

LimeFruitGum wrote: »

That's brilliant - any manager should be delighted that an employee came up with something like this. It's amazing how people get their backs up when you try to alleviate the miserable drudge work off them.

I won't hold my breath for any praise. Came up with a couple of other things like this, didn't save as much time as this one will but there wasn't a word about it.
It's going to save me a lot of time, that's the main thing.

If someone emailed me something that would save me hours I'd be all over it, some people eh!

kennethsmyth

unhappys10 wrote: »

I won't hold my breath for any praise. Came up with a couple of other things like this, didn't save as much time as this one will but there wasn't a word about it.
It's going to save me a lot of time, that's the main thing.

If someone emailed me something that would save me hours I'd be all over it, some people eh!

Like yourself, I tend to do this with any excel items that i would use more than once and work smarter rather than extra hours. However just in your situation I note you have a few persons doing this job that takes hours because that is what is necessary to complete it at the moment. If your excel takes off after talking with manager it might lead to less requirement of staff. Now you have proven your usefulness so you would be in a better position than others. Now at the same time progress should always occur and if you didn't do it someone else would later on.

mikemac2

I once worked a 12 hour day with a 20 minute lunch break and was called into a meeting and told off for using my mobile at my desk. This is true, I use it now and again

I also said I don’t smoke, don’t drink tea & coffee and don’t take breaks but management don’t care. My motivation died that day

I still work hard and do 10-11 hour days but every single second is recorded and sent to HR for overtime. We swipe our keycards at terminals like we are factory workers. 30 hours in March and 28 hours in April.

If they are going to refuse to hire staff and run on impossible workloads then at least I’ll be claiming for it

unhappys10

mikemac2 wrote: »

I once worked a 12 hour day with a 20 minute lunch break and was called into a meeting and told off for using my mobile at my desk. This is true, I use it now and again

I also said I don’t smoke, don’t drink tea & coffee and don’t take breaks but management don’t care. My motivation died that day

I still work hard and do 10-11 hour days but every single second is recorded and sent to HR for overtime. We swipe our keycards at terminals like we are factory workers. 30 hours in March and 28 hours in April.

If they are going to refuse to hire staff and run on impossible workloads then at least I’ll be claiming for it

Dead right.
Out of about 20 in our place maybe 3 don't smoke.
All of the others go at least 6 to 8 times per day for about 10mins each, so over 1 hour per day per person.

I come in early and leave early, just waiting for the day someone says something to me about it!

leggo

My attitude is that, when you consider we probably spend more waking time in our lives working than anything else, it’s weird and almost an admission of defeat to not take a bit of pride in what you do. Even in an old job I was in where I ultimately didn’t care about ‘climbing the ladder’ and actively rejected opportunities to do so, just personal pride meant wanting to be as good as or better than my peers, keep employers and clients happy and know I was doing a good job. It also benefitted me to do so as the end result was me getting to basically pick my own hours and holidays, work where/when I wanted and having trust/autonomy to do the job in the way I wanted to do it. You buy goodwill and favours by being good at your job like, it’s common sense.

Now I’m in a job I genuinely love and want to do well in, I’m admittedly putting a lot aside for the time being to focus on that and get where I want. But ultimately I’m a ‘work to live’ type, so I’m not killing my free time and staying late until all hours breaking my back and missing out on other things I enjoy doing. Plus the life I want to build is what drives me to give what I do to the job because working hard now will mean I can step back and focus on that once I’m in the financial situation to enjoy it. I foresee my future being: get to a good professional level, take a step back and enjoy life for a while when I do, then push myself forward again, then enjoy the benefits, rinse/repeat until retirement

Tbh I find it so strange when people take pride in ‘getting away with’ doing the bare minimum, as if the achievement is that they’re stealing a living: you’re working the same amount of hours as everyone else, the only thing being stolen is your life away from you because your poor work ethic means you’re spending the majority of your time awake doing as little as possible. From managing people before I also find that this attitude is common among low achievers who aren’t introspective enough to self-critique their performance and improve and are trying to spin their inadequacy as somehow a clever ruse. Maybe it’s just different strokes and I’m not seeing it, though, I’ve just yet to hear one convincing argument that didn’t follow this pattern.

Foweva Awone

I don't often do overtime, but work hard for the time I'm there.

In my 20s I worked for a Big 4 accountancy firm, 80 hour weeks were the norm, crazy stuff. Couldn't do it now! Part of the reason I made the move from practice into industry was for normal working hours.

snoopboggybog

leggo wrote: »

My attitude is that, when you consider we probably spend more waking time in our lives working than anything else, it’s weird and almost an admission of defeat to not take a bit of pride in what you do. Even in an old job I was in where I ultimately didn’t care about ‘climbing the ladder’ and actively rejected opportunities to do so, just personal pride meant wanting to be as good as or better than my peers, keep employers and clients happy and know I was doing a good job. It also benefitted me to do so as the end result was me getting to basically pick my own hours and holidays, work where/when I wanted and having trust/autonomy to do the job in the way I wanted to do it. You buy goodwill and favours by being good at your job like, it’s common sense.

Now I’m in a job I genuinely love and want to do well in, I’m admittedly putting a lot aside for the time being to focus on that and get where I want. But ultimately I’m a ‘work to live’ type, so I’m not killing my free time and staying late until all hours breaking my back and missing out on other things I enjoy doing. Plus the life I want to build is what drives me to give what I do to the job because working hard now will mean I can step back and focus on that once I’m in the financial situation to enjoy it. I foresee my future being: get to a good professional level, take a step back and enjoy life for a while when I do, then push myself forward again, then enjoy the benefits, rinse/repeat until retirement

Tbh I find it so strange when people take pride in ‘getting away with’ doing the bare minimum, as if the achievement is that they’re stealing a living: you’re working the same amount of hours as everyone else, the only thing being stolen is your life away from you because your poor work ethic means you’re spending the majority of your time awake doing as little as possible. From managing people before I also find that this attitude is common among low achievers who aren’t introspective enough to self-critique their performance and improve and are trying to spin their inadequacy as somehow a clever ruse. Maybe it’s just different strokes and I’m not seeing it, though, I’ve just yet to hear one convincing argument that didn’t follow this pattern.

They way I see that is a company is making huge profits off you.
You are only a number to them and anyone's job can easily be replaced and can be left go at the click of a finger. They don't give a flying feck about in reality.

I'm not saying i do the bare minimum, I do what needs to be done but the people spending an extra 12 hours a week working trying to impress their boss when they don't need to be is pretty sad in my opinion.

mayo londoner

Work 9-5.15 and not a minute more, been with the company 5 years and never once got a bonus, pension, healthcare, not even a thank you email or tin of biscuits at Xmas, money is ok for the work I do although the messing about over a measly 2k payrise I got lately when they are posting record profits really took the piss.

People in the company working insane hours with no time in lieu (including some who travel to projects all over the world and don't get anything for giving up guts of 2 days, usually on a weekend travelling over and back) or overtime pay, majority of them absolute lickarses who can't see they are being used and abused, baffling, not to mention a lot of bullying that has gone on in the place. Can't understand some peoples unwavering 'loyalty' to a company when 90% of the time they will stab you in the back eventually. I personally couldn't give a fiddlers f**k about the place or the losers in it once the wages are in my account at the end of the month.

leggo

snoopboggybog wrote: »

They way I see that is a company is making huge profits off you.
You are only a number to them and anyone's job can easily be replaced and can be left go at the click of a finger. They don't give a flying feck about in reality.

That may be the case, but if you extrapolate that to use as logic for doing substandard work (which you haven’t done yourself I know, but many people do) then the reality is still that it’s your life and how you’ve chosen to spend the majority of your time that you’re not sleeping. To spend the majority of your life doing the bare minimum in a job you don’t care about is pretty depressing and a bit of a waste of a life surely no? I know the type like: they work hard for those 2 weeks a year they go on a mad holiday or whatever, then spend the rest of the year planning the next one. But that’s 96% of your time invested in having a good 4%, when the option to be engaged in your life 100% of the time is right there and people do it all the time.

Note how none of that is me talking about why you should care about your bosses or your company, you’re correct when you say you’re ultimately replaceable to them, but that’s also true in every aspect of your life too: you WILL die one day and, while that may cause some people sadness for a while, the world WILL continue to go on. But we choose to engage in life not because the world would stop if we didn’t, it’s because we want to and can get a lot of satisfaction from doing so. So I don’t really accept that as an excuse for a poor professional attitude either. I honestly think it’s just **** people say because they often don’t want to try in case they fail.

I know it’s different attitudes, priorities and personality types at play, I just will never understand how people are fine with basically taking a passenger’s seat in the only life they are guaranteed to have, to the point that they spin it as a positive like they’re the real winners and people who enjoy what they do and get satisfaction from doing it better aren’t.

unhappys10

mayo londoner wrote: »

Work 9-5.15 and not a minute more, been with the company 5 years and never once got a bonus, pension, healthcare, not even a thank you email or tin of biscuits at Xmas, money is ok for the work I do although the messing about over a measly 2k payrise I got lately when they are posting record profits really took the piss.

People in the company working insane hours with no time in lieu (including some who travel to projects all over the world and don't get anything for giving up guts of 2 days, usually on a weekend travelling over and back) or overtime pay, majority of them absolute lickarses who can't see they are being used and abused, baffling, not to mention a lot of bullying that has gone on in the place. Can't understand some peoples unwavering 'loyalty' to a company when 90% of the time they will stab you in the back eventually. I personally couldn't give a fiddlers f**k about the place or the losers in it once the wages are in my account at the end of the month.

Yeh that's a joke.
The difference even a thank you makes. My old FC would come out each Friday evening and thank us for the work we did that week, was a nice touch.

Your place sounds like a Big 4 accountancy firm, they present this nice caring face to the world but they are the biggest shower going, long hours with zero thanks for it.
I know of one lad who was off sick for a couple of months with a serious illness, he was getting calls off a manager asking when was he back and that the work was falling behind because of him. Not a word asking how he was. You have to be a certain type of person to reach manager level in those places and to stay long term.

Ultrflat

I've a similar approach to work as my dad, First in, last to leave. Currently unemployed. My last job was as a Carvery chef, on a Sunday morning I'd be in for 07:30 the other staff wouldn't be in till 10:30. me personally I preferred to have a relaxed environment in a kitchen everything done.

Some people would walk in with hangovers, etc but I could not stand that ****. Especially if your cooking for nearly 700 people you need to have your **** together.

Ultimately for me it doesn't bother me what job I'm doing, I like to get up at 05:30 and go to bed about 22/23:00 hrs. Screen time ends at 21:00hrs. I try to be pretty regimented on that.

tastyt

I have genuinely found moving out of Dublin ( I have a long commute ) to have helped my attitude to work.

I was never at ease with what I earned in Dublin. I always felt I had to be looking at a better paid job or promotion, I found that people were constantly doing the same as me, no time to relax and appreciate life .

Mortgage now less than half of what I was looking at in Dublin, a slower, safer pace of life. Yes I have a killer commute, but I don’t even count the extra hour spent travelling in the morning because I’d only be lying in the bed, so yes I do lose an hour every evening more than I used to. Not for everyone but for me it’s a small price to pay.

My point is, when I moved out of Dublin my career and progression seemed way less important as you can have a nice life on the average income

antimatterx

I hate this attitude of only working the hours in my contract. Nothing more, nothing less.

For me, work is my life. I love what I do for a living and I'd hate to have a job as opposed to a career. I both work to live and live to work.

Mr_Muffin

antimatterx wrote: »

I hate this attitude of only working the hours in my contract. Nothing more, nothing less.

For me, work is my life. I love what I do for a living and I'd hate to have a job as opposed to a career. I both work to live and live to work.

This attitude is quite common among twenty-somethings and people without dependents. I see it all the time.

ILikeBoats

antimatterx wrote: »

I hate this attitude of only working the hours in my contract. Nothing more, nothing less.

For me, work is my life. I love what I do for a living and I'd hate to have a job as opposed to a career. I both work to live and live to work.

I'd like to see if you feel the same way in 10/15 years

Rodin

snoopboggybog wrote: »

I just find this really interesting. My attitude to work is go in, do what needs to be done and get out of their on time ever single day. I do barely what needs to be done.

I have other colleagues on my team who would be happy to work till 11PM every single night of the week and include work to be done out of hours when it doesn't need to be done then. These same colleagues include my manager on emails trying to catch people out constantly out.

My manager is delighted with what I do and would get a promotion before these fools. Going on the beer for a match or something if I had work the next day would not stop me either.

Is it just that they have very little going on in their life and hate going back to their families?

Does work really mean that much to people? And before someone quotes that i'm not pulling my weight the work there doing out of hours can be done anytime during the work day and are not urgent whatseover.

We are not under pressure whatsoever.

I usually haven't the time to be clock-watching.

bucketybuck

You don't switch personality traits on and off at whim. In my experience those people who do the bare minimum to get by at work are the same in all other aspects of their lives. Those who get the head down and work hard do the same in other aspects of their lives.

Show me a lazy **** at work and I'll show you a lazy **** everywhere else he goes as well.

antimatterx

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

This attitude is quite common among twenty-somethings and people without dependents. I see it all the time.

I mean fair. You have my demographic nailed. I'm 24 with no kid's

antimatterx

ILikeBoats wrote: »

I'd like to see if you feel the same way in 10/15 years

I will. I love what I do.

If you don't love what you do, it's a waste of so much of your life. If I ever don't love my work, I'll switch companies or sectors. That's no problem.

unhappys10

bucketybuck wrote: »

You don't switch personality traits on and off at whim. In my experience those people who do the bare minimum to get by at work are the same in all other aspects of their lives. Those who get the head down and work hard do the same in other aspects of their lives.

Show me a lazy **** at work and I'll show you a lazy **** everywhere else he goes as well.

Absolute rubbish.
I do what I need to do, 9-5, then I get home to my family.
I did 4 years in college and a further 3.5years of professional training and exams etc.

I got a 1:1 in my degree and passed the professional exams then.
7.5 years of study and hard work.

There is more to life than work, something a lot of people don't realise.

bucketybuck

unhappys10 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.
I do what I need to do, 9-5, then I get home to my family.
I did 4 years in college and a further 3.5years of professional training and exams etc.

I got a 1:1 in my degree and passed the professional exams then.
7.5 years of study and hard work.

There is more to life than work, something a lot of people don't realise.

You "do what you need to do". Don't try and pretend that only holds true at work, as if you become some different person from 9-5.

unhappys10

bucketybuck wrote: »

You "do what you need to do". Don't try and pretend that only holds true at work, as if you become some different person from 9-5.

Don't be ridiculous. Everything else in my life is for me not my employer so I'll put the effort in.
Why should I kill myself working for someone, putting in extra hours for no thanks while being away from my family and the things that interest me.
Your argument is rubbish, if I was lazy I wouldn't be where I am.
The fact that I couldn't be bothered wasting my life behind a desk has no impact on the rest of my life other than making it better.

bucketybuck

unhappys10 wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. Everything else in my life is for me not my employer so I'll put the effort in.
Why should I kill myself working for someone, putting in extra hours for no thanks while being away from my family and the things that interest me.
Your argument is rubbish, if I was lazy I wouldn't be where I am.
The fact that I couldn't be bothered wasting my life behind a desk has no impact on the rest of my life other than making it better.

Its seems to have struck a nerve anyway, but my opinion remains the same. A hard worker is always a hard worker, a guy who does what is needed always does what is needed, and a guy who does the bare minimum will always have that mentality. Again, people are who they are.

Note that I said nothing about working extra hours, a guy can put a great shift in at work but still insist on leaving on time. My point was about the consistency of mentality, for good or bad.

unhappys10

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its seems to have struck a nerve anyway, but my opinion remains the same. A hard worker is always a hard worker, a guy who does what is needed always does what is needed, and a guy who does the bare minimum will always have that mentality. Again, people are who they are.

Note that I said nothing about working extra hours, a guy can put a great shift in at work but still insist on leaving on time. My point was about the consistency of mentality, for good or bad.

No nerves hit, just have a problem with sweeping statements.
Your point about consistency of mentality doesn't hold I'm afraid.
Someone could do what is needed of them work wise and get out the door but have a hobby outside of work, something for themselves and be the absolute best at it while putting in serious effort.
Why kill yourself for someone else is what some here are trying to say.

I do what I need to do and get my pay at the end of the month while clocking off on time every day.

My time is better spent on my family and my interests.

leggo

bucketybuck wrote: »

You don't switch personality traits on and off at whim. In my experience those people who do the bare minimum to get by at work are the same in all other aspects of their lives. Those who get the head down and work hard do the same in other aspects of their lives.

Show me a lazy **** at work and I'll show you a lazy **** everywhere else he goes as well.

I’d kind of agree and disagree, and say that I’ve found it’s more that the positive opposite is true in that someone who has a great work ethic will apply it to whatever they do because they get pride in just doing a good job regardless of circumstances.

But lazy is a buzzword people often misuse. There definitely is a personality type that it applies to, but people can also be disengaged in places they don’t feel valued or appreciated and that can get mistaken for laziness. A bad manager, for example, can make a potentially great employee disengage then rot can set in if circumstances like pay/perks in the position are good enough to keep the person in the job for a long period of time. But I’ve seen loads of people who’d have been pretty much written off as ‘bad’ at their job come to life with a bit of decent people management that values and recognises their strengths and sees them as an actual person with a lot to contribute. You can’t necessarily teach work ethic but you can teach standards and the end result is often the same. On the flip side, you can also get great workers who are capable of so much but have that laziness gene, so nobody will ever be able to get through to them. So what you say definitely exists but it’s misapplied a lot of the time.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

You don't switch personality traits on and off at whim. In my experience those people who do the bare minimum to get by at work are the same in all other aspects of their lives. Those who get the head down and work hard do the same in other aspects of their lives.

Show me a lazy **** at work and I'll show you a lazy **** everywhere else he goes as well.

People that do what they need to in work and get out on time aren’t lazy, they’re just not gullible.

Show me a gullible **** at work and I’ll show you a gullible **** everywhere else he goes as well.

Patsy167

Deleted User wrote: »

Working smarter not harder tends to be a good practice. There's a lot of presentism out there i.e. must be seen to be in the office - ha!, well Covid has certainly put paid to that nugget TG.

I know of a few people who through the years that would be in the office from early morning until about 6-7 in the evening- most of these were married but no kids. I never really knew what they did all day, but their head was down and didn't lift until lunchtime. Their characteristics tended to be:

1. Very intense when you spoke to them- i.e. very forced conversation - they always look like the just wanted to go back to their desk
2. No apparent interests outside of work
3. Obviously no family of their own

In the early years, i would nearly feel guilty leaving the office when they were still there- but I got over this quite quickly as I was putting in decent hours myself- I wasn't going to get into a competition as to who can stay the longest in the office.

People with young families have a natural, nearly built in, motivation to do what they have to do in work, so they can get out and back home to look after their family- if you don't have something pressing to get you out of the office, I find that people will tend to stay longer, usually unnecessarily.

These days, the focus should be on outputs, not time spent at a desk or in the office. Most people I know will spend longer than their paid hours but have a huge degree of flexibility around how they organise their time/ home work vs office work etc- I'd take flexibility and a few extra hours a week over rigid 9-5 presentism any day.

I think the above point is very interesting. How we define hard-work is changing fast. Traditionally I thought of it as someone who kept the head-down and was always busy.

I am constantly reminding myself that EQ is far more important than IQ. I'm sure we can all think of examples of people in our workplaces that work diligently, always on time, stay long hours, very strict and disciplined routine, and it always feels like they are sprinting toward an impending deadline. They keep to themselves and always seem too busy for a light-hearted chat. I would consider this a form of laziness.It is often much tougher to take 15 mins every day to greet and show genuine interest in the people you work with.

A better question to ask I try to ask myself is how much am I contributing?
Do I make an effort to greet people, organise events in work, send genuine thank you emails. I know plenty people who may not be outstanding in meeting the specifications of their job title but their overall contribution to the work environment makes them invaluable

Grueller

Fell into the trap of doing loads extra and chasing promotion years back. Got the promotion, chased the next one etc. Always more more more demanded as you climbed. I packed it in and do a bit of contract work and run my family farm now.
I work on average 70 hours a week, but is walking across pristine countryside in the sun to check on animals that you love actually work? I have about 35 hours a week of tasks like that, that I would count as leisure time almost. They are often done with my 9 and 11 year olds with them throwing a ball for the collie to play fetch.

Just a quick question, do people count their commute as part of a working week? I have mates that do the Dublin commute that adds 2 and a half hours round trip a day to their week. Now a 40hr week is 52.5 hours.

eviltwin

I like my job. I work with vulnerable people and while it's challenging its rewarding too. It's a great feeling to see someone improving their life and know you had some small hand in it. I like being able to leave after my shift and that's it, I don't think about the place until I'm back in again. My other half is working in a manager role and seems to constantly be on call and he gets paid well for it but I don't think the money is worth it. There's a lot to be said for never having to take the work home with you.

Technocentral

Mr.S wrote: »

I like my job & colleagues, our employer is very relaxed with hours as long as the work is completed and no one stays behind late "to be seen". It would be very odd to see people working late in our office.

But I very much value work / life balance and come 5pm I'm gone, often earlier. I would hate to work in an office "clock watching" or for an employer that didn't have a culture of promoting work / life balance.

There is something wrong with people who spend even a minute extra in work imo that isn't necessary . Life is for living not working.

Technocentral

Technocentral wrote: »

There is something wrong with people who spend even a minute extra in work imo that isn't necessary . Life is for living not working.

Because not every has a job moving widgets from point A to point B and actually have engaging jobs. So when I have a train of thought going on some task, I don't switch off the PC at the dot of 5 o'clock. I would continue until I arrive at a natural break point.

Cyrus

all depends on what you want kids

There isn't a cxo in the country that hasn't put the hours in somewhere along the way

Ideally you work smart and work hard

If you are content to just do a role and earn a certain amount there's nothing wrong with that either

H3llR4iser

Personally, my attitude changed dramatically over 20 years. When I started, I'd go the extra step, put in the extra effort, thinking it would make a difference. I've done plenty all-nigthers and insane shifts like going home at 3am and being back in the office at 7.

It didn't matter in the least. Zero. Wherever I worked, it has always been the case that the employers were very quick to point out the faults and very slow to acknowledge the merits.

So now, it's means to an end. Get in, do the job in the most reasonable way possible (in other words, straight to the point), get out. Pays the bills.

Gotta say that being in IT, it's a field where the interest, innovation, excitement and research has been basically killed by fads, unnecessary complexity and ****ty practices over the last 10-15 years. It's all about following this or that fad now, until the next one comes round the corner, then rinse repeat - be it agile, scrum, "cloud", angular, SSaS - you name it it's there. Every few years you're rehashing the same utter sh1te in a different wrapper and pretty much being asked not to think, just "use this stuff that everyone else uses".

Deleted User wrote: »

Working smarter not harder tends to be a good practice. There's a lot of presentism out there i.e. must be seen to be in the office - ha!, well Covid has certainly put paid to that nugget TG.

Not at all - I think there's pretty much a "workers cold war" shaping up for when the Covid-19 emergency will finally be over. Many, many, many businesses are still led by people who are attached to the "everyone in the office 9-6" mentality and see remote working as basically dossing. My own company (again, a tech one which theoretically doesn't even need offices) already has all the high-ups rubbing their hands about "when we'll be back in the office".

On the other hand, companies who will offer telecommuting across the board will be at an advantage - I can see people lowering their salary expectations as long as they get to avoid the DART/LUAS/Bus squeeze in the morning. I certainly would and probably will do.

In the middle, you know, there COULD be governments taking a stance and realizing that pollution and traffic can be effectively mitigated by drastically reducing the need for workers to commute...but yeah, fat chance.