Off Topic Thread 5.0

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

I wonder is that natural human behaviour or learned cultural behaviour. Like the "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude we have here in Ireland which isn't as prevalent in other cultures.

nah , its human behaviour

theres also the "asch experiment" effect here where people will conform even if they know things are incorrect, if they see their social group acting against correctness.

and i wouldnt be dismissing pure lockdown fatigue either.
People who know what is right to do, have been doing right, but just chose to take the risk when it came to socialising at christmas otherwise whats the point of living at all.

thomond2006

connemara man wrote: »

I would have preferred the NZ OZ method, cart everyone to park west and sit them there for 2 weeks, at least pay for the use of it when the Gov had it sit there empty as a triage hospital

Everyone would just travel via NI to avoid that and you'd be wasting taxpayer money.

Synode

connemara man wrote: »

I would have preferred the NZ OZ method, cart everyone to park west and sit them there for 2 weeks, at least pay for the use of it when the Gov had it sit there empty as a triage hospital

It's a waste of money when we have an open border we can't control. I'd love it too if we could, I've family in Australia and they've had it a lot easier than here.

OldRio

molloyjh wrote: »

Then every man and his donkey should have ignored the easing if restrictions and behaved accordingly. But they didn't, did they? The Gov didn't hold a gun to peoples head forcing them to meet up in groups or visit 10-15 households or anything like that. People did that all by themselves. Despite being told not to. Despite being aware of what that meant. The Gov could have done better, but it was people who spread C19. People need to take the bulk of the responsibility here.

I agree ré personal and social responsibility. But not everyone ignored the restrictions. Not everyone met in large groups. The people I know locally, cancelled family coming home, including our own.

connemara man

Belfast airport wouldn't be able to take on that many visitors so the numbers would immediately be lessened, and people living the furthest away from Belfast would be put off

like in Oz and NZ the person coming in pays for it so the burden (that we have already taken on as it was an empty triage hospital in March) wouldn't be on us for rooms used.

& IMO there should be a bus in Belfast taking people that would be coming south to said hotel. "Where is your final destination? - Louth - due to an agreement with The gov of the ROI a bus will now take you to City West Airport for mandatory 14 day quarantine"
Would people lie yes but still the numbers wouldn't have been 50,000 +

At the end of the day this sh*t show is due to a lot of different factors not just one

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

The single biggest issue was simply lockdown fatigue.

People were sold the November lockdown on the basis of "this is what you have to do if you want a Christmas"....

However due to lockdown fatigue, and a growing number of gobsh!te conspiracy theory asshats on social media denigrating every government decision.... Plus the fact that the Nov lockdown wasnt as severe as it should have been... That meant the case numbers coming out of the Nov lockdown was in the low 300s rather than the low double figures we had in May.. So our starting point in mid Dec was not good enough.

Add onto that the perfect storm as Venjur mentioned above.... And we are now where we are.

Spot on.

I also think the messaging of endless misery from the government, NPHET and dare I say it, elements of the media, has worn people out and they just aren't listening any more.

I can't remember his name but there is some balloon that RTE keep using to talk about covid and he is the most pessimistic person I've ever heard on the telly. I remember when the vaccines were first announced he was all "well, we don't really know if they'll work". Is it any wonder people are fed up?

Stheno

awec wrote: »

Spot on.

I also think the messaging of endless misery from the government, NPHET and dare I say it, elements of the media, has worn people out and they just aren't listening any more.

I can't remember his name but there is some balloon that RTE keep using to talk about covid and he is the most pessimistic person I've ever heard on the telly. I remember when the vaccines were first announced he was all "well, we don't really know if they'll work". Is it any wonder people are fed up?

George Lee
The most miserable person ever

Former Former Former

People just figured, sure it'll be grand, what's the harm. I don't think it was lockdown fatigue or a rebellion against negative messaging, I just think everyone said they'd adopt their own version of 'sensible' precautions and it'll be fine, sure it's very low risk.

The problem was millions of people all taking small risks over and over, it all adds up to one giant risk.

The other problem was of course pubs and parties, so that even people who were being careful probably came into contact with a lot of people who weren't.

TLDR: I feel like a muppet for not going out and seeing loads of people. I'm paying the price for it anyway, at least I could have got a few scoops and a decent meal out of it.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Everyone would just travel via NI to avoid that and you'd be wasting taxpayer money.

The people travelling in would cover the cost of a 2 week hotel stay. We'd find out very quickly which of these journeys are essential. People would still travel through NI but it's a deterrent.

mfceiling

connemara man wrote: »

I would have preferred the NZ OZ method, cart everyone to park west and sit them there for 2 weeks, at least pay for the use of it when the Gov had it sit there empty as a triage hospital

Brother lives in Queensland on the gold coast. Says that things are pretty much back to normal but practically everyone has done what needed to be done. They brought a rule recently that you could not cross a territorial border unless it was an emergency. If you did cross the border you had to fly back in and you had to quarantine at an airport hotel at your own cost.
One clown decided he would nip across to buy a set of golf clubs. They stopped him on the way back, escorted him to an airport hotel where he quarantined for 2 weeks (at his own cost) and then fined him $8,000 for his troubles. He says it really is being policed strongly there and if you don't have a valid reason to be travelling around you'll be fined heavily.

Zzippy

Former Former Former wrote: »

P
TLDR: I feel like a muppet for not going out and seeing loads of people. I'm paying the price for it anyway, at least I could have got a few scoops and a decent meal out of it.

Look on the bright side - you're not on a ventilator now.

I know the advice was 3 households max, but seriously, WTF did people think was going to happen if they met 3 households - those other 2 households are also probably meeting other households, etc. It just wasn't worth the risk. We live a few miles from my in-laws and didn't see them over Christmas, nor any of the cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. I haven't seen my folks since August, before that February, and who knows when I will see them again.

It was bad decisions from government ignoring scientific advice, giving bad guidance to citizens ignoring that advice that caused this surge. And even if you stuck to "guidance" and met 1-3 other households, you were taking a risk and trusting your family's health to other people's behaviour.

These comparisons are nonsense. Dublin to London is like Melbourne to Adelaide - Australia is a continent and more comparable to Europe than Ireland. We've relied on our migrant workforce from the EU within the health service throughout covid and an Australia style isolationist response when we have an open border could well have created a worst of both worlds scenario.

Now, had Ireland been able to go with an Island wide approach things could have been a lot different. It sickens me that the DUP couldn't get over themselves for 5 minutes to do the right thing for both Northern Ireland and Ireland but sadly they are a political reality (and a malignant one at that) which we've had to factor into our response. We've also had to deal with one of the worlds major epicentres being 12 miles off our coast, Australia has no such equivalent.

Credit to Australia, they've used their advantages well and should be proud of themselves - but they have advantages that we simply do not. Much like Zzippy - most of my family live between 1 and 10 miles from my house. I saw no one and accepted Christmas was a lost cause this year. Anyone who used the absolute limit of the restrictions is entirely responsible if they got covid. There are roads in Ireland with an 80km speed limit and if I insisted on going around some of the bends at 80km I'd end up in a ditch - this is no different, people should have used their own cop on and didn't.

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Exactly, although some did. I have two friends who followed guidelines, one flew in from the States with a negative test, isolated until receiving another negative test a week later. Another drove home from the UK and self-isolated for 2 weeks before seeing his parents/anyone. Then I know of a couple who flew back from London and were visiting both families in the days after.
It would have been harsh on the people who did follow guidelines, but travel should really have been stopped for all but essential reasons, and being home for Christmas was not essential.

I flew in on the 12th, got a negative covid test on the 19th and continued to isolate until Christmas, saw one other friend and his newborn, spent New Years at home, and then flew back out a few days later.

But in reality I’m very lucky to have a house where I can properly isolate back in Ireland on my own. Loads of people don’t have that ability and so couldn’t actually fly home and isolate properly on their own, or afford a covid test, and a lot of those people simply couldn’t come home at all (I feel quite guilty about that bit) and I guess some others couldn’t bare it and so just came home and didn’t follow the rules. I’m not really in a place to judge those people myself.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

What? 10-15 households can be anything from 20-50 people interacting in a closed environment. And that's just from 1 households perspective. Imagine how that increases exponentially if each of those other 10-15 households all did the same and all the 10-15 households that all of those visited etc etc.

This is the problem. We never needed a majority of the population to act irresponsibly. Most people visited someone over the Christmas. All you needed was 1 person in the entire group that you visited to be irresponsible, or vivist 1 person that was irresponsible, or visit 1 person who was a close contact of someone who was irresponsible. People keep talking about this like its some sort of personal responsibility where people have personal control over their circumstance. Thats just not true. Its a collective responsibility where other peoples actions will affect yours. The only way to avoid this on an individual basis is to not see anyone or go anywhere.

To give an example, I visited my MILs on Christmas Day and my parents on Stephens Day. My sister called me a few days after Christmas to tell me that she had to get a test as a close contact so I should avoid seeing my MIL given she is high risk. Unfortunately, my MIL had been out to the house since (childcare bubble). My sister had visited 1 friend on Christmas Day who had since tested positive for C19. In the end my sisters test came back negative. Her friend had picked it up from her sister in law, who she had visited on Christmas Day, but only after she had seen my sister. We effectively dodged the virus through a bit of luck. Had those visits occurred the other way around it could have been, literally, deadly.

The thing is, my sister didn't need to visit her friend. By doing so, she immediately increased the risk of infection, not just to herself, but to all of us around the table on Stephens Day and anyone we then came into contact with thereafter. And she visited just 1 household. That was it. Imagine the added risk of visiting 10-15 times as many households. Thats f-ing huge. Close contacts of 30 people is insane. And if only 10% of the population did that, it is still insane. Because over the Christmas period they almost certainly came into contact with most of the remaining 90% either directly or indirectly. That is exactly why we are where we are.

And let's be clear, while the Gov messaging on this wasn't great, NPHET were really clear. Do not meet up with loads of people. We were seeing increases before Christmas and the message they gave was clear. Keep contacts as low as you possibly can. Any adult who chose not to do that in a pandemic that has been going on for most of the year has no excuse. Covid was not new. The steps we needed to follow were well known. None of us should have needed the Gov or NPHET to tell us what to do. We are not children. And anyone who blames the Gov on this is simply part of the problem. We all know enough about this now. We have no excuse for not behaving responsibly of our own accord. We shouldn't need to be handheld.

I meant I don’t think it’s that extreme as a guess from Busr at how many were interacting, in the post I was replying to he said he thought that was an extreme estimate, I’d say it was probably fairly common

molloyjh

OldRio wrote: »

I agree ré personal and social responsibility. But not everyone ignored the restrictions. Not everyone met in large groups. The people I know locally, cancelled family coming home, including our own.

Oh I know not everyone did. As I said, I went to the MILs and she looks after our daughter anyway so has always been part of our bubble. She's 5 mins down the road. I also went to my parents who live 20 mins up the road. But because we are in Wicklow and they're in Dublin we've gone months at a time without seeing them. Which has been hard as they used to look after our daughter 2 days a week, now they are lucky to see her at all, and she them.

Outside of those and neighbours out on the road I've seen nobody since this started. Thankfully our daughter started pre-school, otherwise we'd probably all have lost our minds. Its just really frustrating when we've limited ourselves so much that others are having feckin' All-Ireland drinking sessions or going to a dozen or so other households. And as a result we have to limit ourselves for longer and worry about high risk family for longer, full in the knowledge that some of those eejits won't do the same.

EDIT: Just realised that we had 1 local family over for food one day in June. But thats it.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I meant I don’t think it’s that extreme as a guess from Busr at how many were interacting, in the post I was replying to he said he thought that was an extreme estimate, I’d say it was probably fairly common

Ah sorry, read that completely wrong.

awec

Zzippy wrote: »

Look on the bright side - you're not on a ventilator now.

I know the advice was 3 households max, but seriously, WTF did people think was going to happen if they met 3 households - those other 2 households are also probably meeting other households, etc. It just wasn't worth the risk. We live a few miles from my in-laws and didn't see them over Christmas, nor any of the cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. I haven't seen my folks since August, before that February, and who knows when I will see them again.

It was bad decisions from government ignoring scientific advice, giving bad guidance to citizens ignoring that advice that caused this surge. And even if you stuck to "guidance" and met 1-3 other households, you were taking a risk and trusting your family's health to other people's behaviour.

I don't think the govt. ignored scientific advice with respect to households.

It was the pubs and restaurants.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

These comparisons are nonsense. Dublin to London is like Melbourne to Adelaide - Australia is a continent and more comparable to Europe than Ireland. We've relied on our migrant workforce from the EU within the health service throughout covid and an Australia style isolationist response when we have an open border could well have created a worst of both worlds scenario.

Now, had Ireland been able to go with an Island wide approach things could have been a lot different. It sickens me that the DUP couldn't get over themselves for 5 minutes to do the right thing for both Northern Ireland and Ireland but sadly they are a political reality (and a malignant one at that) which we've had to factor into our response. We've also had to deal with one of the worlds major epicentres being 12 miles off our coast, Australia has no such equivalent.

Credit to Australia, they've used their advantages well and should be proud of themselves - but they have advantages that we simply do not. Much like Zzippy - most of my family live between 1 and 10 miles from my house. I saw no one and accepted Christmas was a lost cause this year. Anyone who used the absolute limit of the restrictions is entirely responsible if they got covid. There are roads in Ireland with an 80km speed limit and if I insisted on going around some of the bends at 80km I'd end up in a ditch - this is no different, people should have used their own cop on and didn't.

Yea I see people elsewhere go on about how well New Zealand has done. New Zealand's distance to it's closest neighbour is like the distance from Ireland to Baghdad or something. It's a completely nonsensical proposition.

Ireland isn't socially or economically isolated enough to take a super-hard stance on travel.

aloooof

awec wrote: »

I don't think the govt. ignored scientific advice with respect to households.

It was the pubs and restaurants.

I wonder how much of the advice was meant to be taken independently vs in conjunction, tho.

Like, if NPHET knew the governments decision on pubs and restaurants, would their household advice have been stricter?

Zzippy

awec wrote: »

I don't think the govt. ignored scientific advice with respect to households.

It was the pubs and restaurants.

NPHET advised in writing that the government could either open hospitality, or allow households to meet at Christmas, but not both. It was either or, very clearly. Government ignored that and allowed both.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1348719146893258758?s=20

Zzippy

Finally! Thought this day would never come, but there are workmen on the road outside installing fibre broadband cabling. Soon we'll have fibre broadband to within 10 yards of the house. Now just to deal with Eir and wait 5 years to get the last 10 yards connected!

FACECUTTR

Zzippy wrote: »

Finally! Thought this day would never come, but there are workmen on the road outside installing fibre broadband cabling. Soon we'll have fibre broadband to within 10 yards of the house. Now just to deal with Eir and wait 5 years to get the last 10 yards connected!

A great day for the parish. Would you not try get sky in and they could organise the eir connection and subsidize it ?

Zzippy

FACECUTTR wrote: »

A great day for the parish. Would you not try get sky in and they could organise the eir connection and subsidize it ?

Is that an option? TBH I had no idea of the next step, presumably they have to run an overhead wire to the house, or underground ducting? Thought we would have to go through Eir, but very happy if we don't!

FACECUTTR

Zzippy wrote: »

Is that an option? TBH I had no idea of the next step, presumably they have to run an overhead wire to the house, or underground ducting? Thought we would have to go through Eir, but very happy if we don't!

My dad recently got sky connected and the phone wire from the pole to the house had been broken in a storm a while ago. They charged 30 for the box install and 20 for the phone connection. I have no idea about a newly laid connection but it's worth a phone call to them. I'm sure Eir will charge alot more than that.

errlloyd

If the Fibre goes that close they can do the last few metres on existing infrastructure and you'll still get pretty good speeds.

swiwi_

Zzippy wrote: »

Finally! Thought this day would never come, but there are workmen on the road outside installing fibre broadband cabling. Soon we'll have fibre broadband to within 10 yards of the house. Now just to deal with Eir and wait 5 years to get the last 10 yards connected!

The last 10 yards is a bit of letdown alright.

Tim Robbins

Burkie1203 wrote: »

All Ireland had nothing to do with it. Relaxing restrictions had a little bit to do with it but it is largely down to huge numbers of people having large gatherings at home and 50-60k people allowed enter the country in the 10 days before Xmas and do whatever they wanted.

I saw a tweet on Sunday before Xmas from David Hall. He was in a coffee shop in town on a work break and a couple sat near him with their kid, telling their friend they arrived over from the UK the day before and were going for covid tests on Tuesday.

They should not have been let in without mandatory quarantine or a negative test.

The village that has had the highest covid incidence in last few weeks is coincidentally in Mayo. Spoke to someone there and was told there were all sorts of p*ss ups for the match and loads of them caught it.

It's anecdotal evidence but sadly think kicking that game off at anything other than 10.00 am was a big mistake.

swiwi_

Burkie1203

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The village that has had the highest covid incidence in last few weeks is coincidentally in Mayo. Spoke to someone there and was told there were all sorts of p*ss ups for the match and loads of them caught it.

It's anecdotal evidence but sadly think kicking that game off at anything other than 10.00 am was a big mistake.

Its not the All Irelands fault that people are selfish and thick. 10am start and people still would meet. Sure pubs were open at 6am when Ireland were playing in Japan and South Korea in 2002.

Even if there was no game they still would meet for some reason. A game on TV just happened to be the excuse this time.

swiwi_

It won’t be everyone’s cup of tea but I like Midnight Diner on Netflix. 20 minute slice of life episodes with some humour thrown in.