Prospective Landlord Requesting Payslip

MissyN

I’m going to view an apartment next week & the landlord has requested proof of employment & a reference front a previous landlord which is fine but he’s also requested a payslip which I’ve never been asked for previously. I’m very uncomfortable at the prospect of giving out this info but is this the norm now?

I like the property & want to move so do I just suck it up?

10pennymixup

Been hashed out here many times before.

They shouldn't be looking for any of these prior to a viewing, but are allowed inform you that they will possibly be required at some later stage. You should only be providing these if they are offering you the tenancy subject to their provision.

They need to see if you can afford the rent, and personal information on the payslip such as ppsn will be needed for RTB registration. Not that there is much more info on a payslip AFAIK, but if there is, anything else you can redact.

Bubbaclaus

What's on the payslip that you dont want them seeing?

Samuel T. Cogley

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What's on the payslip that you dont want them seeing?

Their pay presumably.

MissyN

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What's on the payslip that you dont want them seeing?

I’m just a really private person & haven’t had to disclose that before so I’m not used to it but I looked at threshold & apparently it’s not a far fetched request.

stinger31

surely this is a fair request. it shows if you can afford the rent and also that you actually work for the company you claim to work for.

Land lords have to be extremely careful these days

Samuel T. Cogley

It's not a fair request at this stage - if they're the preferred tenant that's another story.

punisher5112

Most of not all look for payslip, letter to state you are in full time employment, bank account, letter from the bank that you are a customer and stamped and dated, reference from previous LL or sponsor or job etc....

MissyN

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's not a fair request at this stage - if they're the preferred tenant that's another story.

I’m going to see the property on Tues evening & he wants me to send on this info now before I’ve even step foot in the place. It’s a bit premature. I told him it’ll take me a couple of days to gather the info anyways.

DubCount

10pennymixup wrote: »

Been hashed out here many times before.

+1

Whether a LL should be asking for this or not is a matter of debate. Some say they should be ask for whatever they want to protect the property they have invested so much money in. Some say its not required for a LL to pick a tenant so should not be asked for or provided.

Really it comes down to this. Regardless of whether it is right to ask for it or not, if you say no, you risk not getting the property. Only you can make the call if the discomfort of showing a LL the payslip outweighs the risk of not getting the lease.


Maybe Covid-19 means the tenant is in a more powerful position to say no than a few months ago, because its less of a sellers market. Maybe this will be the case where another prospective tenant shows the payslip and gets the property ahead of you.

Pawwed Rig

You do not have to provide anything you are uncomfortable with. Neither though does the LL have to let you rent their property. Personally I have never asked for pay slips or proof of income but have been badly burnt a couple of times so maybe my due diligence is not what it might be.

Edgware

Because of landlords ripping off tenants and tenants ripping off landlords the innocent people on both sides have to take measures to protect themselves.
If you are not prepared to cooperate with the request there are plenty who will.

Mrs OBumble

MissyN wrote: »

I’m just a really private person & haven’t had to disclose that before so I’m not used to it but I looked at threshold & apparently it’s not a far fetched request.

You are asking the landlord to hand you the keys to a property worth probably a couple of hundred-thousand. You are someone they barely know. And they will have minimal opportunities to ensure that you are looking after the property.

Thought of in that way, it sounds lots more reasonable.

username2013

If I were you I would say fine to sending them proof of employment and reference letter now, but would insist on showing the payslip in person when you go for the viewing, rather than emailing them a copy. That way you could blank or cover over your PPS number and also keep it rather than them having a copy.

Eric Cartman

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What's on the payslip that you dont want them seeing?

Even as a renter Im usually pretty pro landlord , but I don't think allowing a landlord to see your payslip is reasonable, it gives more incentive to raise rents on tenants who earn more.

JustAThought

Perfectly reasonable request - surprised they havn’t asked to see the past 3 or 6 months payslip in addition to a current work statement and reference - they don’t want to waste their time viewing it to someone who cannot afford it and has to base their assesment of whom to rent it to based on income, ability to pay in the future etc. You want the keys to a property worth several hundred thousand euro from a stranger - yes - show them what they need to be able to make the decision to set things in place to rent it to you.

Pawwed Rig

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Even as a renter Im usually pretty pro landlord , but I don't think allowing a landlord to see your payslip is reasonable, it gives more incentive to raise rents on tenants who earn more.

RPZ?

handlemaster

Normal in most countries other than Ireland. Someone walks in off the street and want to use your biggest investment. What's the proof they are who they say they are ? What's the proof they can pay ?

rosmoke

I would laugh, this has to be a joke?
My contract and salary are confidential and will remain this way.
A reference and deposit should be more than enough.
And having lived in other countries in Europe this is not normal contrary to what someone else mentioned, at least from what I experienced.

noodler

Give a bank statement with everything redacted apart from the weekly, fortnightly, monthly pay coming in.

I would want proof of means as well

Last three landlords required it.

DubCount

rosmoke wrote: »

My contract and salary are confidential and will remain this way.

You should say that to the bank if you are applying for a mortgage.

rosmoke wrote: »

A reference and deposit should be more than enough.

You should also say that to the bank if you are applying for a mortgage.

rosmoke wrote: »

And having lived in other countries in Europe this is not normal contrary to what someone else mentioned, at least from what I experienced.

The risks of property letting in Ireland are far greater than most other European countries. Most countries do not allow non-paying tenants stay in a property for up to 2 years, and some will even make it possible for a LL to recoup unpaid rent and property damage in a reasonable timeframe using the courts system.

If I was the LL, I would laugh along with you, and find another tenant.:)

tjhook

A person's pay is private. If I asked any of you face-to-face for yours, you'd tell me where to go, and rightly so. There's no comparison between giving a payslip to a bank and giving a payslip to a person who happens to be a landlord. Any person or organisation demanding this type of info is a GDPR data controller and needs to be able to detail their processes.

The current situation is somewhat understandable - the lack of consequences when a tenant acts the maggot, and an imbalance in supply/demand means a landlord can demand anything they want. That doesn't make it right though. If there was balance, it would also be standard for a landlord to provide references from previous tenants, and to provide a payslip/bank statement to show that (s)he can afford repairs, property tax, etc. I can understand why a landlord wouldn't want to be showing their private financial details to randomers, but the same goes in reverse.

If the concern is ability to pay rent, then surely a reference from the tenant's previous landlord and the previous rent amount would suffice? I.e. the tenant has been able to afford their previous rent.

tjhook

tjhook wrote: »

A person's pay is private. If I asked any of you face-to-face for yours, you'd tell me where to go, and rightly so. There's no comparison between giving a payslip to a bank and giving a payslip to a person who happens to be a landlord. Any person or organisation demanding this type of info is a GDPR data controller and needs to be able to detail their processes.

If the concern is ability to pay rent, then surely a reference from the tenant's previous landlord and the previous rent amount would suffice? I.e. the tenant has been able to afford their previous rent.

But if you ask me face to face, to borrow something of mine worth €200k, I’d like I little more Han a smile and a reference.

This subject has been done to death on other threads, the consensus on those threads is, while the practice of asking for payslips may breach GDPR regs, refusal to provide it guarantees that you will not get the property as others will have no issue with the request.

tjhook

Yes, with the current imbalance a landlord could ask for your first born and although it's against regulations, somebody else would be lining up to hand over theirs. Or something else.

Any property is valuable, but a payslip has no bearing on how a prospective tenant will treat it. It only indicates that at one specific point in time, the tenant had a particular flow of income. For that matter, it's a flawed picture since it doesn't show what outgoings the tenant has or will have.

What a reference shows is that the tenant has a track record in paying rent - and if a figure is provided, it shows what size of rent (s)he has been successfully able to pay.

NuMarvel

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's not a fair request at this stage - if they're the preferred tenant that's another story.

This. The landlord in question is only arranging viewings at this point. There are no valid reasons to be collecting this sort of information for the purposes of arranging viewings.

Where that leaves the OP is a different question.

tjhook

tjhook wrote: »

Yes, with the current imbalance a landlord could ask for your first born and although it's against regulations, somebody else would be lining up to hand over theirs. Or something else.

Any property is valuable, but a payslip has no bearing on how a prospective tenant will treat it. It only indicates that at one specific point in time, the tenant had a particular flow of income. For that matter, it's a flawed picture since it doesn't show what outgoings the tenant has or will have.

What a reference shows is that the tenant has a track record in paying rent - and if a figure is provided, it shows what size of rent (s)he has been successfully able to pay.

A payslip gives an indication as to whether the prospective tenant can afford the rent.

The “imbalance” you post about is less to do with demand for rentals, and more to do with the imbalance in rights which the RTA/RTB affords to both parties.

In the end it comes down to, if you don’t want to comply with LLs request, don’t, move on.

tjhook

Dav010 wrote: »

The “imbalance” you post about is less to do with demand for rentals, and more to do with the imbalance in rights which the RTA/RTB affords to both parties.

In the end it comes down to, if you don’t want to comply with LLs request, don’t, move on.

I think it's both. The rights of both parties is a factor for sure. What's stopping all tenants from saying "no thanks, I'm not going to give that info"? Nothing, except that there are far more people looking to rent than there are available properties.

And yes, in in the end only the OP can decide if it's worth distributing their payslip and references when there's no indication that they'll be offered the tenancy. I wouldn't though.

noodler

Scan it, redact everything but the net pay.

tjhook

tjhook wrote: »

I think it's both. The rights of both parties is a factor for sure. What's stopping all tenants from saying "no thanks, I'm not going to give that info"? Nothing, except that there are far more people looking to rent than there are available properties.

And yes, in in the end only the OP can decide if it's worth distributing their payslip and references when there's no indication that they'll be offered the tenancy. I wouldn't though.

Even if there are more properties now and demand may have dropped, it is still important to make every effort possible to mitigate risk when renting your property.

Mrs OBumble

tjhook wrote: »

A person's pay is private. If I asked any of you face-to-face for yours, you'd tell me where to go, and rightly so.

Actually, it's not.

There are an increasing number of companies with full pay transparency policies.

And for government workers, their grade (published) plus years of service (easily deduced in most cases) is a very good indication of their salary.

Pkiernan

Requesting a pay slip is used to determine HAP status of a prospective tenant.

It allows a landlord to circumvent the law that says they may not discriminate against HAP tenants.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Requesting a pay slip is used to determine HAP status of a prospective tenant.

It allows a landlord to circumvent the law that says they may not discriminate against HAP tenants.

You are reaching. A HAP tenant can just inform the property owner, it would be illegal to discriminate.

Pkiernan

Dav010 wrote: »

You are reaching. A HAP tenant can just inform the property owner, it would be illegal to discriminate.

No valid reason to ask for pay slip other than to determine if the tenant is working.

Saudades

An alternative to showing your pay-slip is to request a Statement of Earnings from your employer, printed on company's headed paper.
This will still show the landlord the gross earnings of the prospective tenant, but hides other details such as tax credits and pps number.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

No valid reason to ask for pay slip other than to determine if the tenant is working.

Apart from being able to afford the rent? A HAP tenant can inform the LL that they will confirm HAP eligibility. HAP tenants also have to be able to pay the LA and any top up on HAP payment. Again, it would be illegal for the LL to discriminate so I don’t see your issue with HAP.

pwurple

The PPS number is required anyway, for registration of tenancy.

As a landlord, I have not requested a payslip, but I have requested evidence that they are employed (a letter from the employer does fine), and a reference from a previous landlord to indicate they paid the rent in a timely manner. I didn't request that from everyone viewing the property though!

TSQ

rosmoke wrote: »

I would laugh, this has to be a joke?
My contract and salary are confidential and will remain this way.
A reference and deposit should be more than enough.
And having lived in other countries in Europe this is not normal contrary to what someone else mentioned, at least from what I experienced.

Laugh away, while someone else gets the apt you want. I suppose you object to bank demanding proof of income / ability to make payments when applying for a mortgage.

Graham

pwurple wrote: »

I didn't request that from everyone viewing the property though!

I think that's the most relevant part pwurple.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Give a bank statement with everything redacted apart from the weekly, fortnightly, monthly pay coming in.

I would want proof of means as well

Last three landlords required it.

I think this is more reasonable but surely showing the previous rent payments going out and a statement to say you're employed would be better than disclosing your pay

DubCount

Its a payslip, not your deepest darkest secret.

A LL wants to make sure the email you sent saying you are a working professional with a decent salary, is actually true. What do you think the LL will do with the payslip if he does see it?

Redacting information or offering an alternative that you think is "reasonable" just suggests you have something to hide.

Its wrong for the LL to ask before a viewing, but once asked, I'd just show the payslip and move on with life.

NuMarvel

DubCount wrote: »

Its wrong for the LL to ask before a viewing, but once asked, I'd just show the payslip and move on with life.

Or report the LL to the Data Protection Commissioner so they don't do this again.

MissyN

NuMarvel wrote: »

Or report the LL to the Data Protection Commissioner so they don't do this again.

I’m going to view the apartment tomorrow & I just sent him the proof of employment & payslip because the fact of the matter is I’m sleeping in my mams box room having had a nightmare experience house sharing & I desperately need my own space. I’ve sent a few emails to estate agents to view other apartments & heard nothing back.

So honestly I kinda have to dance to this guys tune.

DubCount

NuMarvel wrote: »

Or report the LL to the Data Protection Commissioner so they don't do this again.

Whatever floats your boat.

I'm not sure how a report to the Data Protection Commission will help OP. Teaching the LL a lesson will not help OP. It may benefit society. It just does so while someone else lives in the LLs property.

NuMarvel

MissyN wrote: »

I’m going to view the apartment tomorrow & I just sent him the proof of employment & payslip because the fact of the matter is I’m sleeping in my mams box room having had a nightmare experience house sharing & I desperately need my own space. I’ve sent a few emails to estate agents to view other apartments & heard nothing back.

So honestly I kinda have to dance to this guys tune.

I completely understand where you're coming from. Best of luck with the viewing!

DubCount wrote: »

Whatever floats your boat.

I'm not sure how a report to the Data Protection Commission will help OP. Teaching the LL a lesson will not help OP. It may benefit society. It just does so while someone else lives in the LLs property.

You said yourself that it's wrong of the LL to ask for this, so what would you suggest instead?

tvjunki

if You are living in a box room and you have no reference then what else would a landlord be looking for? They want to make sure you are stable financially and want to know a bit about you and how you manage your finances.
After being burnt by not asking for this information I now always ask for proof of income, bank statement payslip. If you don’t like it I see someone has something to hide and move onto the next one. You could be the best tenant But you could loose a lovely property. Just show the information. They don’t have to make a copy. Also most recent references I now take with a pitch of salt. The risk of getting a bad tenant and the lack of support for good landlords makes you want to be extra careful.

NuMarvel

NuMarvel wrote: »

I completely understand where you're coming from. Best of luck with the viewing!



You said yourself that it's wrong of the LL to ask for this, so what would you suggest instead?

There is no instead if that is the minimum requirement set by a property owner.

Their ball,there game.

jimmycrackcorm

It's a bit risky for a landlord to ask for a payslip, as it could easily lead to a discrimination case against HAP applicants. A landlord would have to ask for either payslip or equivalent proof of ability to pay rent.

jimmycrackcorm

NuMarvel wrote: »

Or report the LL to the Data Protection Commissioner so they don't do this again.

On what basis do you suggest reporting to the DPC?

Graham

I'm guessing on the basis the landlord is ignoring the DPC advice about what information to collect at what stages of the letting process.

tjhook

DubCount wrote: »

Its a payslip, not your deepest darkest secret.

...

Redacting information or offering an alternative that you think is "reasonable" just suggests you have something to hide.

Out of interest, what types of information would you consider private, if not personal finances?

Maybe medical history? But your medical history is likely to be openly discussed with your family, your close friends, GP, hospitals, heath insurance company, pension/life assurance company, maybe the revenue commissioners.

Come to think of it, wouldn't medical history be of interest to a potential landlord? In case there are underlying conditions that might prevent the tenant from working and being able to pay rent?

Having "something to hide" could be applied to any type of information.

DubCount

tjhook wrote: »

Out of interest, what types of information would you consider private, if not personal finances?

Maybe medical history? But your medical history is likely to be openly discussed with your family, your close friends, GP, hospitals, heath insurance company, pension/life assurance company, maybe the revenue commissioners.

Come to think of it, wouldn't medical history be of interest to a potential landlord? In case there are underlying conditions that might prevent the tenant from working and being able to pay rent?

Having "something to hide" line could be applied to any type of information.

Entering a lease is a financial transaction. Providing financial information is appropriate. Providing a payslip as proof of income, demonstrates capacity to fulfil the financial obligations of the lease and an income stream which can be chased if the financial obligations are not met or you trash the property.

Asking for this before a viewing is not the way I would go about it, but I would expect some financial information (e.g. bank statements and/or payslips) to show financial capacity to the LL prior to entering the lease.

I've never heard of a LL asking for medical information. Why would a LL be interested? The LL in this case is not trying to extract personal information for some kind of weird gratification - he/she is only trying to protect what is probably their biggest investment.

Providing information is down to the individual. When you refuse what is asked for, its likely to be interpreted as having something to hide. That's human nature.