New normal and driving test

capefear

The last few weeks have shown me I really need to get my full license ASAP. With social distancing and all that has happened as a result of Covid 19. What way do you think driving lessons and the driving test will be in the new normal or will they go back to how it was before the virus.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd say it will go back in stages, those under 35 first, then those under 50, then those under 65, then the rest.

Dravokivich

Itll be difficult to saw how things are going to be done initially. But I'd say it should be looked into as an extra curricular thing with schools / colleges associating with local instructors.

Will definitely be leading my son through it sooner rather than later.

Gatling

Had my test cancelled with no future date issued and I know at least two people with front line services waiting for a test despite it being claimed that provision could be made ,

I just hope there is no sudden rush for thousands wanting to do a driving test and people being forced to wait longer than needed

Thargor

I have a pass certificate with no way to turn it into a full driving licence, wish they'd set up some kind of online way to do it, they already have all my details and picture on file. Ridiculous having to go to an NDLS center again just to get your details changed.

MascotDec85

As an ADI my concern is, that with the difficulty with distancing in a car, we’ll be one of the last to get back to work. I heard that before the tests were actually cancelled the testers were pushing for them to be cancelled. Take from that what you will.

capefear

MascotDec85 wrote: »

As an ADI my concern is, that with the difficulty with distancing in a car, we’ll be one of the last to get back to work. I heard that before the tests were actually cancelled the testers were pushing for them to be cancelled. Take from that what you will.

Yep that was my thinking as well, because of the size of the cars it will be impossible for social distancing and I can’t see driving test or lessons happening for a good while yet, so not sure really how or when it will be sorted, unless something is put into the car to separate both parties or is something like that even possible.

As some one mentioned above driving needs to be taught at secondary school.

MascotDec85

capefear wrote: »

Yep that was my thinking as well, because of the size of the cars it will be impossible for social distancing and I can’t see driving test or lessons happening for a good while yet, so not sure really how or when it will be sorted, unless something is put into the car to separate both parties or is something like that even possible.

As some one mentioned above driving needs to be taught at secondary school.

It’s impossible for lessons. We need to be able to take control of the wheel. At times we need to make gear changes.

Vestiapx

MascotDec85 wrote: »

As an ADI my concern is, that with the difficulty with distancing in a car, we’ll be one of the last to get back to work. I heard that before the tests were actually cancelled the testers were pushing for them to be cancelled. Take from that what you will.

I take it that the testers were being responsible.

punisher5112

Simple, screen between driver and instructer....

Full vehicle control from both sides so if needed instructor can stop the car.....

MascotDec85

Vestiapx wrote: »

I take it that the testers were being responsible.

I’m not suggesting they weren’t. My point was regarding tests recommencing. It could quite possibly be driven (not a pun) by testers and their union, that’s all I meant.

MascotDec85

punisher5112 wrote: »

Simple, screen between driver and instructer....

Full vehicle control from both sides so if needed instructor can stop the car.....

Sorry, but that’s wrong. At times the last thing we need is for the car to stop. At times we very much need it to keep going but take avoidance action of adjusting our position by taking control of the wheel.

punisher5112

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Sorry, but that’s wrong. At times the last thing we need is for the car to stop. At times we very much need it to keep going but take avoidance action of adjusting our position by taking control of the wheel.

How am I wrong, if that is the case then simply fit a second wheel.... This can be done.

Atlantic Dawn

Could it end up going purely simulation based?

MascotDec85

punisher5112 wrote: »

How am I wrong, if that is the case then simply fit a second wheel.... This can be done.

“Simply”?

Can you please provide links to the additional of a 2nd wheel?
Customers would have to bear the costs of an adaptation like this.

Gatling

A screen won't be able to stop two people sitting inches away breathing the air in and any airborne germs , could also cause issues with glare and reflections obscuring views

punisher5112

Gatling wrote: »

A screen won't be able to stop two people sitting inches away breathing the air in and any airborne germs , could also cause issues with glare and reflections obscuring views

I have a plexi screen fitted in work vehicles, one has to adapt.....

pqdvdplayer

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Could it end up going purely simulation based?

Yeah, clearly that's the only way forward for it.

Charles Babbage

pqdvdplayer wrote: »

Yeah, clearly that's the only way forward for it.

How are motorbike tests conducted?

blackbox

MascotDec85 wrote: »

As an ADI my concern is, that with the difficulty with distancing in a car, we’ll be one of the last to get back to work. I heard that before the tests were actually cancelled the testers were pushing for them to be cancelled. Take from that what you will.

Compulsory masks?

Gatling

blackbox wrote: »

Compulsory masks?

Mandatory 7 seaters for doing the test ,
Tester sits in the third row of seats using cameras to monitor the person taking the test ,

Just for laughs

dsmythy

Eventually it will be described as 'essential'.

greyc

It would probably then mean that all lessons and tests would have to be carried out in a driving school car. I’d say the majority of tests at the moment are taken in the pupils own car, or one belonging to a family member.

This will add to the cost of the test if they have to hire a car, plus additional lessons to get used to driving that vehicle, which I’m sure won’t be popular with a lot of people.

capefear

Hi MascotDec85


Did this evening’s announcement give you any idea on what stage you could be back doing lessons, test etc at?

TIA

MascotDec85

capefear wrote: »

Hi MascotDec85


Did this evening’s announcement give you any idea on what stage you could be back doing lessons, test etc at?

TIA

I think in all honesty we’re looking like AT LEAST stage 4 which is estimated at 20th July if not Stage 5 of 10th August. Through stages 1-3 they’re still saying distancing is important so while a group of 4 might be able to meet they’ve to keep apart. I’ll be speaking to my TD to see if he can get any clarification in the next couple of weeks.

LorelaiG

Charles Babbage wrote: »

How are motorbike tests conducted?

The person doing the test on the bike with an earpiece and the tester in a car behind them following giving directions.

That's how it was being done in Mulhuddart before they were cancelled anyway.

Not so easy in a car when you need to see how the person controls the gears etc.

O.A.P

LorelaiG wrote: »

The person doing the test on the bike with an earpiece and the tester in a car behind them following giving directions.

That's how it was being done in Mulhuddart before they were cancelled anyway.

Not so easy in a car when you need to see how the person controls the gears etc.

This and the fact a learner driver must be accompanied at all times.

iconnect

punisher5112 wrote: »

How am I wrong, if that is the case then simply fit a second wheel.... This can be done.

This would take extreme modification . Im sure if you were a parent you would be happy with a hefty increase in cost of lessons to cover it ?

cherryghost

Backseat opposite side maybe, not sure. Greatest distance between two people. Not 2 metres but in some cars close enough.

MascotDec85

cherryghost wrote: »

Backseat opposite side maybe, not sure. Greatest distance between two people. Not 2 metres but in some cars close enough.

Unworkable. Testers need to be able to take control of the car, including the wheel in the case of imminent danger.

cherryghost

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Unworkable. Testers need to be able to take control of the car, including the wheel in the case of imminent danger.

What do you suggest then?

marilynrr

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Unworkable. Testers need to be able to take control of the car, including the wheel in the case of imminent danger.

I don't understand what you mean by testers need to be able to take control of the car including the wheel in case of imminent danger.

Dual controls are removed for the test aren't they?
so the only thing that they could take control of was the wheel anyway?

MascotDec85

marilynrr wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by testers need to be able to take control of the car including the wheel in case of imminent danger.

Dual controls are removed for the test aren't they?
so the only thing that they could take control of was the wheel anyway?

No, dual controls are not removed for test, the remain in place.

MascotDec85

cherryghost wrote: »

What do you suggest then?

I think it will probably be a combination of PPE, cleaning with antibacterial fluid/wipes and possibly temperature readings too. It’s the close proximity between pupil and instructor/ tester which makes me think we’ll be in stage 4 minimum.

iconnect

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I think it will probably be a combination of PPE, cleaning with antibacterial fluid/wipes and possibly temperature readings too. It’s the close proximity between pupil and instructor/ tester which makes me think we’ll be in stage 4 minimum.

Agreed . i might add that they may have to make it necessary to test in a Drivng School Car .
It possible that the RSA in conjunction with Adi's will introduce a mandatory sanitation standard that would have to be signed off prior to the examiner starting the test.
This would probably involve Adi's having to do a training course for Examiners to agree to test
This can only be achieved by people seeing a Adi immediately prior to the test That is why it may go this route temporarily .

galwaytt

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Unworkable. Testers need to be able to take control of the car, including the wheel in the case of imminent danger.

For lessons, yes - not for a test. A trained driver is supposed to be above that level of competence after all the IBT lessons.

galwaytt

marilynrr wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by testers need to be able to take control of the car including the wheel in case of imminent danger.

Dual controls are removed for the test aren't they?
so the only thing that they could take control of was the wheel anyway?

Many schools have dual control cars - mostly pedals, rarely wheels.

galwaytt

Charles Babbage wrote: »

How are motorbike tests conducted?

LorelaiG wrote: »

The person doing the test on the bike with an earpiece and the tester in a car behind them following giving directions.

That's how it was being done in Mulhuddart before they were cancelled anyway.

..timely posts: I wrote to RSA today on this as, motorcycles being solo by nature, there is no social distancing compromise to undertake motorcycle tests: they could be done very easily: especially when you consider the waiting lists - this is time that could have been used to shorten them considerably.

The way it is now, my son will have progressed (age-eligibility-wise) from A1 to A2 whilst in the queue for A1 test............so we'll have to start A2 IBT all over again - including the expense.....

Posy

galwaytt wrote: »

For lessons, yes - not for a test. A trained driver is supposed to be above that level of competence after all.

Your tester isn't supposed to use dual controls, like they can't help you with the clutch if you cut out.
But they'd have to be able to use the steering wheel/brake if the pupil made a stupid or dangerous mistake; which is more than plausible, especially during the stress of a test situation. I imagine that would be pure self preservation!

MascotDec85

galwaytt wrote: »

For lessons, yes - not for a test. A trained driver is supposed to be above that level of competence after all the IBT lessons.

It’s EDT for cars, not IBT. If you think that testers don’t have to take the wheel at any point, you’re being fairly niave I’m afraid.

marilynrr

MascotDec85 wrote: »

No, dual controls are not removed for test, the remain in place.

My instructor definitely removed her dual controls, I specifically remember meeting her for a lesson and she was putting them back in and said someone had just had her car for the test!

galwaytt wrote: »

Many schools have dual control cars - mostly pedals, rarely wheels.

I know, I just don't didn't understand what he was saying, testers and instructors are often in cars with people where they can't take full control of the vehicle if the person is using their own car (once the instructor deems it safe for them to use their own car).

galwaytt

MascotDec85 wrote: »

It’s EDT for cars, not IBT. If you think that testers don’t have to take the wheel at any point, you’re being fairly niave I’m afraid.

It's not naiveté - I think you're misunderstanding the roles of an instructor, not a tester.

MascotDec85

marilynrr wrote: »

My instructor definitely removed her dual controls, I specifically remember meeting her for a lesson and she was putting them back in and said someone had just had her car for the test!



I know, I just don't didn't understand what he was saying, testers and instructors are often in cars with people where they can't take full control of the vehicle if the person is using their own car (once the instructor deems it safe for them to use their own car).

That may have been your instructor’s personal choice but they do not NEED to be removed for test. In 10 years I’ve never removed mine. I also reckon that in the event of an incident occurring and the tester not being able to use the brake she would have had a pretty serious insurance issue as there are very clear clauses in our policies.

Control of the car may just be tweaking or pulling the wheel. It might not involve use of either of the pedals. People do make mistakes or on the road another road user may make one and if the test candidate doesn’t react quickly enough, the tester might have to. Also, it’s not uncommon for people to turn up to test who are, to be very blunt about it, absolutely brutal!! Sometimes these people barely last 10 mins before having their test curtailed. They may have been advised not to sit the test by their instructor but think they know better and say “well I’ll give it a go.” So they turn up for test in a car they’ve borrowed or whatever. The tester doesn’t know what they’re facing until the pupil starts driving. If they had no possibly of taking control of the wheel they would not go out with them.

MascotDec85

galwaytt wrote: »

It's not naiveté - I think you're misunderstanding the roles of an instructor, not a tester.

As an experienced instructor I know what our roles are. I also know that testers do and will intervene if absolutely necessary and tests would not be conducted if they they unable to take control of a wheel.

SteveAdti

galwaytt wrote: »

It's not naiveté - I think you're misunderstanding the roles of an instructor, not a tester.

I can also confirm that as a Driving Instructor the Examiners will take the wheel . They will also grab the Handbrake and they will occasionally hit the Dual Control Brake.

Dravokivich

MascotDec85 wrote: »

As an experienced instructor I know what our roles are. I also know that testers do and will intervene if absolutely necessary and tests would not be conducted if they they unable to take control of a wheel.

How many tests are done with Dual Controls, over without Dual controls?

When I went for it, I rarely saw an instructor vehicle about.

Also, grabbing the wheel would be rather risky without the ability to slow the car.

SteveAdti

Dravokivich wrote: »

How many tests are done with Dual Controls, over without Dual controls?

When I went for it, I rarely saw an instructor vehicle about.

Also, grabbing the wheel would be rather risky without the ability to slow the car.

I personally have bookings of over 3 per day on average . Cant say how many don't use Dual Controls

MascotDec85

Dravokivich wrote: »

How many tests are done with Dual Controls, over without Dual controls?

When I went for it, I rarely saw an instructor vehicle about.

Also, grabbing the wheel would be rather risky without the ability to slow the car.

Sometimes, the last thing you want to do is slow or stop the car. Use of the wheel alone can be very effective in keeping control. We’re trained to do it correctly. In other circumstances, both are used, it just depends.

I couldn’t tell you the percentage of tests conducted with or without them. However, in a car without them the only things we/the testers have is the wheel and as Steve said above, the handbrake but that’s a last resort.

capefear

Mr Ross said he has asked officials in his department and in the RSA to produce a road map for the phased resumption of other services including the National Driver Licence Service (NDLS), Driver Theory Test (DTT), National Car Test (NCT) and the Driving Test.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/commercial-vehicle-roadworthiness-tests-to-recommence-on-monday-1.4255392%3fmode=amp

From the times last week, I’d say it will be stage 5 at the earliest before some of the services get back up running. As for test no idea but I’d be shocked if they did the amnesty again, but it depends on the backlog and how long this goes on for 🀷*♂️🀷*♂️

Johner

There’s not a hope there will be an amnesty in this day and age.

Lundstram

Definitely won't be an amnesty as long as that idiot Ross is in charge. Hopefully when a new government is formed we'll have a better idea of how long or what they plan to do regarding the massive backlog.

Peoples lives are on hold until they can get a full license.