Gave lodger 30 days notice - refusing to leave

dublinbando

Hi All,

We have a lodger renting a room in our house, I am the owner and we have a licencee agreement. I rang threshold last week and they told me that licencees/lodgers are not covered by eviction ban so I gave the lodger 30 days notice. He started getting a little abusive by txt and is refusing to leave.

He rang the RTB today and they told him the eviction notice isn't valid as he is covered under the eviction ban, when he told me this I also rang RTB and they told me the same but I can't find any information online that says the government passed the law that also covers lodgers/rent-a-room/licencees?

This guy is a nightmare to live with and is drinking everyday, smoking in the house which is a breach of the agreement and leaving a mess in kitchen etc.

What should I do?

Seth Brundle

He's a lodger so has no rights. Feck him out & change your locks.

Dylan94

dublinbando wrote: »

Hi All,

We have a lodger renting a room in our house, I am the owner and we have a licencee agreement. I rang threshold last week and they told me that licencees/lodgers are not covered by eviction ban so I gave the lodger 30 days notice. He started getting a little abusive by txt and is refusing to leave.

He rang the RTB today and they told him the eviction notice isn't valid as he is covered under the eviction ban, when he told me this I also rang RTB and they told me the same but I can't find any information online that says the government passed the law that also covers lodgers/rent-a-room/licencees?

This guy is a nightmare to live with and is drinking everyday, smoking in the house which is a breach of the agreement and leaving a mess in kitchen etc.

What should I do?

If someone was to smoke in my home they would be sent out the door with no notice. Now that he has been abusive I would have him removed immediately without the 30 day notice.

Ideally you would get your key back and not have to change the locks, as that could be a challenge right now. If not then I would tell him he is no longer welcome, next time he leaves put his stuff outside. If he tries to come back in call the guards

Lolle06

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ban-on-evictions-and-rent-freeze-in-new-emergency-legislation-1.4211377

I am guessing that this temporary ban would include lodgers since the government want people to stay put where they are atm?

It must be an awful situation for you

CIARAN_BOYLE

Lolle06 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ban-on-evictions-and-rent-freeze-in-new-emergency-legislation-1.4211377

I am guessing that this temporary ban would include lodgers since the government want people to stay put where they are atm?

It must be an awful situation for you

Your one from pbp has claimed publicly that she made it so it would include lodgers.

An even handed reading of the legislation would not support that view.

Lolle06

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Your one from pbp has claimed publicly that she made it so it would include lodgers.

An even handed reading of the legislation would not support that view.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf

Part 2
Yes, apparently licensees are included.

Sarah491

dublinbando wrote: »

Hi All,

We have a lodger renting a room in our house, I am the owner and we have a licencee agreement. I rang threshold last week and they told me that licencees/lodgers are not covered by eviction ban so I gave the lodger 30 days notice. He started getting a little abusive by txt and is refusing to leave.

He rang the RTB today and they told him the eviction notice isn't valid as he is covered under the eviction ban, when he told me this I also rang RTB and they told me the same but I can't find any information online that says the government passed the law that also covers lodgers/rent-a-room/licencees?

This guy is a nightmare to live with and is drinking everyday, smoking in the house which is a breach of the agreement and leaving a mess in kitchen etc.

What should I do?

If you can’t force him to leave in an already difficult situation and it may be hard for them to find a vacancy elsewhere, but hopefully they are currently looking and will be asap, but till then, be civil as best as you can be and don’t let the annoying things that may be trivial, annoy you. Let it go as you will be hurting yourself emotionally and mentally. You both must have got on at one stage as you choose to live with them. But hopefully they won’t want to be living in that environment either, tough all round and will move on. But till then, be civil and bite your tongue on trivial matters that may annoy you but hold your ground on smoking etc. I live with others and unfortunately you can’t control others choosing to drink everyday. I assume they are not harming you whilst drinking.

Samuel T. Cogley

Lolle06 wrote: »

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf

Part 2
Yes, apparently licensees are included.

AFAIK it's only licencees in student accommodation.

30 days is way too long but it's done now. When hes out after the 30 days get the locks changed and call the guards if he tries to gain entry.

Edit: box up their stuff and make sure it cant get wet / nicked.

Tasfasdf

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

AFAIK it's only licencees in student accommodation.

30 days is way too long but it's done now. When hes out after the 30 days get the locks changed and call the guards if he tries to gain entry.

This is correct. Lodgers have no rights.

Lolle06

Lolle06 wrote: »

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf

Part 2
Yes, apparently licensees are included.

Which subsection says licensees are included?

I read that legislation was amended to include student accommodation which would not normally be covered by RTA.

L1011

Dav010 wrote: »

Which subsection says licensees are included?

I read that legislation was amended to include student accommodation which would not normally be covered by RTA.

3 (2) is at least attempting to include licencees.

CIARAN_BOYLE

L1011 wrote: »

3 (2) is at least attempting to include licencees.

legislation wrote:

references to landlord shall be construed as including references to licensor within the meaning of section 37 of the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act
2019,

Only licensees within the context of section 37 of the 2019 act. Ie residents in student accomodation under licence.

overkill602

he is a thread to ur health/well being, smoking in the house fcuk him out immediately round up lock smith move in a friend if possible

Lolle06

Tasfasdf wrote: »

This is correct. Lodgers have no rights.

That’s great news for the OP!
The RTB should’ve known better in the first place though and not give out false information, making this situation even more difficult.

LuckyLloyd

You will have to impose your will and physically remove his property from the house and change locks, etc. You can see from the above posts that legally you may be okay, though be aware that you could end up in court defending yourself on that point.

If you aren’t willing to take decisive action then you’re waiting for your lodger to play ball. In the current context they may have nowhere to go, which I’m sure you’re fully aware of. If they dig in their heels then it’s up to you to make their eviction happen, if you believe you have the legal right.

Caranica

30 days notice is ridiculous. You've shot yourself in the foot by giving them that long, even 14 would be generous by the sound of things.

Search this forum, there have been a couple of threads on this since the new legislation. The whole lodger being included or not thing has been debated at least twice already.

Tasfasdf

Lolle06 wrote: »

That’s great news for the OP!
The RTB should’ve known better in the first place though and not give out false information, making this situation even more difficult.

The RTB is a joke. They encourage tenants who aren't even paying to overstay.

Mrs OBumble

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

fliball123

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

Who cares if he is acting like an idiot in the house its his own fault. You cannot be responsible for everyone, you are responsible for you and your family no one else 30 days notice is more than reasonable

ELM327

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

To be honest if someone was in my house and I needed him to leave and he wouldnt, I wouldnt care about media perception of me I'd just want him gone.

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

Or he won't go to the guards and the media.

Or the guards and the media won't have the slightest interest even if he does go.

Granadino

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

OP shouldn't be worried about the gardai or the media in this case. When you say abusive by text OP, do you mean they are holed up in their room and you can't get them out?
Might be poor timing to evict someone in the current climate, but seeing as they are abusive, make a mess, and smoke in the house etc, then I would get rid of them. Tough ****.

kevcos

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

OP, just ignore this waffle.

dublinbando

kevcos wrote: »

OP, just ignore this waffle.

Yeah that certainly is waffle. If the housing situation was anything like it was before the virus I'd be more understanding but there is over 200 listings on daft for rooms in our area and they're much cheaper than he's paying here, should be no issues finding somewhere else in 30 days.

Sierra Oscar

dublinbando wrote: »

Yeah that certainly is waffle. If the housing situation was anything like it was before the virus I'd be more understanding but there is over 200 listings on daft for rooms in our area and they're much cheaper than he's paying here, should be no issues finding somewhere else in 30 days.

There's also the fact that there has been a huge increase in capacity for emergency accommodation since the crisis began. Dublin City Council have literally taken over entire blocks of hotels and short term tourism accommodation for this purpose. Lodger will easily have a roof over his head if he needs it.

overkill602

OP when you say we there are more than one so u have numbers advantage, why did you let this guy in? how long is he there? is he unemployed?

Mrs OBumble

dublinbando wrote: »

Yeah that certainly is waffle. If the housing situation was anything like it was before the virus I'd be more understanding but there is over 200 listings on daft for rooms in our area and they're much cheaper than he's paying here, should be no issues finding somewhere else in 30 days.

Except that we are under movement restrictions at the moment, and rental property viewing is not an essential activity.

Its easy to say " who cares" but the reality is that the OP cares if the have an assh0le who they cannot get out of their home.

Claw Hammer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Except that we are under movement restrictions at the moment, and rental property viewing is not an essential activity.

Its easy to say " who cares" but the reality is that the OP cares if the have an assh0le who they cannot get out of their home.

All the o/p has to do is wait till he goes out and the change the locks.

Mrs OBumble

Claw Hammer wrote: »

All the o/p has to do is wait till he goes out and the change the locks.

Sure, And what does the lodger do next?

"Who cares" actually isn't a helpful answer. He won't magically disappear.

The OP needs to have a realistic plan of how this can play out. Just changing the locks is simply inviting the lodger to break in to get his stuff, at very least.

Seth Brundle

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sure, And what does the lodger do next?

"Who cares" actually isn't a helpful answer. He won't magically disappear.

The OP needs to have a realistic plan of how this can play out. Just changing the locks is simply inviting the lodger to break in to get his stuff, at very least.

Which post mentioned how the OP was the lodger's mother?
The OP doesn't need to plan how this will work out like you say because the gardai will lift him for B&E if he does as you suggest.

magicmoves

Give the lodger a boot up the hole and tell him to feck off

Grolschevik

Anyone else find it somewhat interesting that apparently the tenant's charity Threshold advised in favour of the OP, whereas the statutory body RTB advised against?

Caranica

Grolschevik wrote: »

Anyone else find it somewhat interesting that apparently the tenant's charity Threshold advised in favour of the OP, whereas the statutory body RTB advised against?

Threshold has no role in a rent a room situation

Edgware

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sure, And what does the lodger do next?

"Who cares" actually isn't a helpful answer. He won't magically disappear.

The OP needs to have a realistic plan of how this can play out. Just changing the locks is simply inviting the lodger to break in to get his stuff, at very least.

The lodger can always find someplace where he will behave himself.

Grolschevik

Caranica wrote: »

Threshold has no role in a rent a room situation

Do you mean the RTB? My point is that you'd expect the advice given by each to be the opposite.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sure, And what does the lodger do next?

"Who cares" actually isn't a helpful answer. He won't magically disappear.

The OP needs to have a realistic plan of how this can play out. Just changing the locks is simply inviting the lodger to break in to get his stuff, at very least.

1. Not the house owners problem.

2. He will if you boot his ass out the door.

3. The realistic plan is to ask an unwanted guest in your house to leave. His stuff can follow him out the door, no need to break in then.

Caranica

Grolschevik wrote: »

Do you mean the RTB? My point is that you'd expect the advice given by each to be the opposite.

No I mean threshold. They are a tenant rights organisation. The op has a lodger, not a tenant and not entitled to the protections a tenant has through tenancy laws.

Claw Hammer

Caranica wrote: »

No I mean threshold. They are a tenant rights organisation. The op has a lodger, not a tenant and not entitled to the protections a tenant has through tenancy laws.

Threshold can advise anybody they want.
The RTB should not give advise. anybody who phones them will be talking to a Civil servant who will recite what is in the FAQ s. The RTB have been found to be wrong by the courts, many times.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

Not the problem of the op. Even under normal circumstances it wouldnt be his problem.

Considering the behavior of the lodger I would say it's very much a situation of f**k the lodger.

If either party goes to the Gardai, they will be told it's a civil matter. If the lodger is physically attempting to get in or being abusive, threatening and so on he may be subject to arrest depending on the circumstances but Gardai are not supposed to be bringing prisoners into stations of it can be dealt with another way in the present climate.

In regards looking bad, the Gardai don't care. They won't be going around bad mouthing the op. If the op gets named and shamed publicly, he can take an action.

Del2005

Caranica wrote: »

30 days notice is ridiculous. You've shot yourself in the foot by giving them that long, even 14 would be generous by the sound of things.

Search this forum, there have been a couple of threads on this since the new legislation. The whole lodger being included or not thing has been debated at least twice already.

They gave 30 days and the licencee got abusive so they can now just kick them out for threatening behavior

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Except that we are under movement restrictions at the moment, and rental property viewing is not an essential activity.

Its easy to say " who cares" but the reality is that the OP cares if the have an assh0le who they cannot get out of their home.

A person on another thread rang the Gardaí and got confirmation that viewing rental property is an allowed movement.

The OP can get them out by changing the locks.

endacl

Ca:ranica wrote: »

Threshold has no role in a rent a room situation

Better

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Realistically, where do you expect him to move to in the current climate?

If he goes to the guards or to the media, you will be the one who comes out looking bad.

Gardaí will laugh at him and personally I’d enjoy making a fool out of him in the media and highlighting the crap that many rent a room home owners and LLs have to put up with.

lau1247

Came across this on Twitter. Might be useful for some.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Image&utm_campaign=COVID_Emergency_Legislation_2020&utm_content=Website_Card_1

Rent a room applies

Claw Hammer

lau1247 wrote: »

Came across this on Twitter. Might be useful for some.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Image&utm_campaign=COVID_Emergency_Legislation_2020&utm_content=Website_Card_1

Rent a room applies

That is ambiguous. The paragraph says it applies to all accommodation within the remit of the RTB. It then goes no to mention rent a room and digs. Some rent a room arrangements where the landlord does not live in the property may well be under the remit of the RTB but there has een no change to section 3 of the act whee it excludes accommodation where the landlord resides in the same dwelling. digs are usually in private houses and the landlord lives in.
The reality is that the legislation does not apply in situations where the landlord lies in the accommodation.
There is an attempt to blur this during the emergency. when the RTB are asked to comment officially, they refuse and say it is for the courts.
they know full well that accommodation where the landlord lives in the dwelling are not comprehended by the new legislation.

Graham

lau1247 wrote: »

Came across this on Twitter. Might be useful for some.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Image&utm_campaign=COVID_Emergency_Legislation_2020&utm_content=Website_Card_1

Rent a room applies

Specifically it states

The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements.

I'd concur with others, even the RTB don't sound too confident.

Seth Brundle

The important bits are contained here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/2/section/5/enacted/en/html#sec5

Mrs OBumble

OP, have you got an update for us - did you change the locks, did the lodger magically disappear?

10pennymixup

lau1247 wrote: »

Came across this on Twitter. Might be useful for some.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Image&utm_campaign=COVID_Emergency_Legislation_2020&utm_content=Website_Card_1

Rent a room applies

Quote:


The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements.

Forbearance: To hold back or refrain from exercising a legal right.

The RTB are recognising that it is your legal right but are asking you not to go through with it, clear as mud. Under the OP's circumstances I'd go for it.

Claw Hammer

10pennymixup wrote: »

Quote:


The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements.

Forbearance: To hold back or refrain from exercising a legal right.

The RTB are recognising that it is your legal right but are asking you not to go through with it, clear as mud. Under the OP's circumstances I'd go for it.

The only evictions which are prohibited are evictions of tenants. People living with landlords are not tenants. The comments of the RTB are simply a request.

10pennymixup

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The only evictions which are permitted are evictions of tenants. People living with landlords are not tenants. The comments of the RTB are simply a request.

Unfortunately the guidance being offered on line by the RTb is conflicting. One section states it does include licensees, but later in the section quoted it asks for forebearance.

So thanks for agreeing with me, but I have to disagree with you when you say evictions of tenants (and not licensees) are permitted.

Currently evictions of tenants are not permitted.

Claw Hammer

10pennymixup wrote: »

Thanks for agreeing with me, but I have to disagree with you when you say evictions of tenants (and not licensees) are permitted.

Currently evictions of tenants are not permitted.

I made a mistake. Permitted should have read prohibited.