Selling up.

erada

Do many farmers who suffer setback after setback such as poor weather and prices, increasing insurance, feed and fertilizer costs, not to mention more and more rules and regulations ever feel like selling up and trying a different path?

BarryD2

The land, the land - not over my dead body!

Meet plenty of oz and kiwi and few pom ould lads who did.....most i met seemed to prosper in whatever area they went into and made much more than would've at farming

tanko

As Mrs Doyle said "maybe i like the misery".

Anyway i couldn't sell up, imagine what the neighbours would say about me:pac:

_Brian

erada wrote: »

Do many farmers who suffer setback after setback such as poor weather and prices, increasing insurance, feed and fertilizer costs, not to mention more and more rules and regulations ever feel like selling up and trying a different path?

Not common at all.
Farming is probably the occupation where people most let it become their identity. Being on a farm you live farming you don’t just be a farmer. So for most, nearly all it’s unfathomable to sell something so ingrained in their identity.

Still waters

Sell it and put a few bob in your pocket, its the only way you'll ever see anything out of farming, up to yourself then what path you take

davidk1394

We had to sell ground a few years ago. It was the best decision we ever made. It took away the noose around our neck and gave us breathing space. Now I'm taking over the farm and changing from drystock to dairy. If we didn't sell some of that land I think it would have broke us completely.

K.G.

erada wrote: »

Do many farmers who suffer setback after setback such as poor weather and prices, increasing insurance, feed and fertilizer costs, not to mention more and more rules and regulations ever feel like selling up and trying a different path?

There s s##t following every job.my experience says money is hard earned where ever you go

Danzy

_Brian wrote: »

Not common at all.
Farming is probably the occupation where people most let it become their identity. Being on a farm you live farming you don’t just be a farmer. So for most, nearly all it’s unfathomable to sell something so ingrained in their identity.

You don't inherit land it inherits you.

_Brian

K.G. wrote: »

There s s##t following every job.my experience says money is hard earned where ever you go

I think nobody minds working hard for a steady reliable income. Problem is you could burst your arse working at farming and make nothing.
Beef for example you could rear animals for two years and then factory prices tumble leaving you nothing for your two years.

Compare that to stacking shelves in Aldi for €12/hr, it’s as hard work but at least steady reliable income.

kerryjack

I had but not anymore. The last few weeks have made me preciciate this ould place and the kids and the space we have to roam around. Kids are great company as well and not an hour idle down here, plenty to do.

cute geoge

K.G. wrote: »

There s s##t following every job.my experience says money is hard earned where ever you go

There was a tv show back in 2016' Older then Ireland' anyway there was this man of over 100 years who had spent his life in the royal navy all over the world ,He detailed how he lived his working life living from one calamity to the next .Very similar to farming in this day and age!!!

ganmo

Jjameson wrote: »

If you got it for nothing it isn’t yours to sell. If you inherit a bit of land and you can’t get some little twist or enjoyment or anything positive from it then yes you should sell it but you should never have been given it.

So if you inherit animals can you sell them?
What about the machinery on the farm?

kerryjack

Jjameson wrote: »

If you got it for nothing it isn’t yours to sell. If you inherit a bit of land and you can’t get some little twist or enjoyment or anything positive from it then yes you should sell it but you should never have been given it.

That's a strange way of thinking

Belongamick

To answer your question Erada - Yes - some days everyone feels like selling up. Its the same for every business - tough to be a nurse these days. Tough to be a hotel owner with 300 staff and no bookings.
I think the most important thing is to have an outlet or hobby away from the day job. For example, fishing, showing cattle, vintage cars etc Anything that your are passionate about and meet different people at the weekend.
I see more and more lads going part time, spend time with your family and get away from farming even one day a week.

Tileman

kerryjack wrote: »

That's a strange way of thinking

Well I kind of agree. If you inherit it it’s only yours on loan to pass onto next generation. I think leasing it out might be a fair proposal if you don’t want to farm it. It’s only my view but I saw that my dad sold some land never thinking any of us would be interested in farming. He regrets it to this day. I’m sorry he did it too.

Still waters

Jjameson wrote: »

If you got it for nothing it isn’t yours to sell. If you inherit a bit of land and you can’t get some little twist or enjoyment or anything positive from it then yes you should sell it but you should never have been given it.

Nonsense

Still waters

Jjameson wrote: »

The swallows have arrived today , into red brick buildings here since before my great grandfathers time. The white thorn and gorse are in full bloom, watching a big single lamb wobbling to his first suck.
I may be in a peculiar frame of mind at the minute but Christ I’m glad I’m not in Aldi at 12 euro an hour blip blip blip cash or card

You can enjoy all that without owning a farm

GinSoaked

Still waters wrote: »

You can enjoy all that without owning a farm

Provided its within 2Km.

Still waters

GinSoaked wrote: »

Provided its within 2Km.

Will that rule last forever?

seannash

Not a farmer but cant you just not work the farm, get a normal 9 to 5 and still have all the land there to enjoy. Keep a few animals. I understand theres maintainance but as your income doesnt depend on it it's not as vital as it once was
The only options seem to be sell or work the land, no in between

patsy_mccabe

I was talking about all this with a few neighbours during the week. I was saying that taking the hassle out of it, should be the first thing to do, at least.
No mad cattle, keep things simple, maybe sucklers will have to go (A few thinking that way).
Cutting costs is the next step. How to do that though is the big question.

Lime Tree Farm

erada wrote: »

Do many farmers who suffer setback after setback such as poor weather and prices, increasing insurance, feed and fertilizer costs, not to mention more and more rules and regulations ever feel like selling up and trying a different path?

The old dog for the hard road and leave the pup on the path.

Nekarsulm

seannash wrote: »

Not a farmer but cant you just not work the farm, get a normal 9 to 5 and still have all the land there to enjoy. Keep a few animals. I understand theres maintainance but as your income doesnt depend on it it's not as vital as it once was
The only options seem to be sell or work the land, no in between

That describe over 30% of farmers here anyway.
Figures show that out of 137,000 farms, 30,000 earn less than €4000, and another 23000 earn between 4000 and 8000 euro.
Mostly retired and part time farmers who are still busy, just not making much money...
That's their right to do so, and if they're happy at it, great.
Better than watching daytime TV and counting down the hours until Radio Bingo time, the "death notices", and the weekly visit to the "Mens Shed".

CloughCasey1

Jjameson wrote: »

The swallows have arrived today , into red brick buildings here since before my great grandfathers time. The white thorn and gorse are in full bloom, watching a big single lamb wobbling to his first suck.
I may be in a peculiar frame of mind at the minute but Christ I’m glad I’m not in Aldi at 12 euro an hour blip blip blip cash or card

HAVE YOU GOT PETROL OR DIESEL
God that pisses me off and i only hear it the odd time never mind 400 times a day.
I have to say i love coming home from work (pre corona) lacing into the spuds and then out for an hour or 2 with Mrs CC1 and whichever one of the kids fancies coming with us and doing a few jobs, does the head good. It's a brilliant way of life for a family. Advice to OP is if ya dont like it get out of it. Rent it or sell it to someone who enjoys farming. It's usually the lads that enjoys farming who turns a few pound. If ya dont have interest in something how do you expect to be good at it/do well out of it. Anyway quality of life isn't always determined by whats in your pocket.

Now back to real problems.....urea out last night and no sign of this rain!!

jimini0

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I was talking about all this with a few neighbours during the week. I was saying that taking the hassle out of it, should be the first thing to do, at least.
No mad cattle, keep things simple, maybe sucklers will have to go (A few thinking that way).
Cutting costs is the next step. How to do that though is the big question.

It sounds like a great idea but it's hard for farmers to do.
Have enough stock to keep the grass ate. Less stock, less fertiliser, less hassle, less silage, less meal, less slurry, less machinery, less work and more time for full time/part time job. Apply for every scheme with minimal work involved.
All of the above will give you more time for family.
Sure if it was that easy everybody would be at it.

Donegalforever

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

HAVE YOU GOT PETROL OR DIESEL
God that pisses me off and i only hear it the odd time never mind 400 times a day.
I have to say i love coming home from work (pre corona) lacing into the spuds and then out for an hour or 2 with Mrs CC1 and whichever one of the kids fancies coming with us and doing a few jobs, does the head good. It's a brilliant way of life for a family. Advice to OP is if ya dont like it get out of it. Rent it or sell it to someone who enjoys farming. It's usually the lads that enjoys farming who turns a few pound. If ya dont have interest in something how do you expect to be good at it/do well out of it. Anyway quality of life isn't always determined by whats in your pocket.

Now back to real problems.....urea out last night and no sign of this rain!!

You could possibly get rid if "Have you got Petrol or Diesel" if you changed the filling station that you use....some say the fuel is inferior in filling stations where you normally hear that.

CloughCasey1

Donegalforever wrote: »

You could possibly get rid if "Have you got Petrol or Diesel" if you changed the filling station that you use....some say the fuel is inferior in filling stations where you normally hear that.

I get Diesel in all parts of the country. When your on the road ya dont get to pick.

arctictree

Nekarsulm wrote: »

That describe over 30% of farmers here anyway.
Figures show that out of 137,000 farms, 30,000 earn less than €4000, and another 23000 earn between 4000 and 8000 euro.
Mostly retired and part time farmers who are still busy, just not making much money...
That's their right to do so, and if they're happy at it, great.
Better than watching daytime TV and counting down the hours until Radio Bingo time, the "death notices", and the weekly visit to the "Mens Shed".

I'd say the figure is closer to 80 or even 90%

I'm a part time farmer myself and am seriously think of reducing my stocking rate considerably. I still have the gra for it but the numbers just aren't adding up.

But actually times are changing. I have an 11 year old who is mad to get going and is at home during this crisis. He's proven a great time saver during lambing and I have more time to spend on the job/money earner!

_Brian

Jjameson wrote: »

The swallows have arrived today , into red brick buildings here since before my great grandfathers time. The white thorn and gorse are in full bloom, watching a big single lamb wobbling to his first suck.
I may be in a peculiar frame of mind at the minute but Christ I’m glad I’m not in Aldi at 12 euro an hour blip blip blip cash or card

Nothin wrong with Aldi, good honest hard work and decent pay.

Still waters

Jjameson wrote: »

How long have you been with them Brian?

Would you consider many jobs to be below you, what would your definition of a respectable job be

80sDiesel

I recently bought close to 30 acres adding to my modest 12. It’s a hobby for me having a full time job. I don’t have any animals. My gra is bringing the land to yesterday with wildflower rich meadows and native trees.

And it’s the the best thing I ever did.

Who2

I have a reasonably decent business going and I’m part time farming as well. I’ve lived and worked abroad and I’ve had plenty of really bad years and thought of getting rid of the farm more than once. But not now. I had a great plan a few years back involving property, the farm would be gone and I’d have nothing at the moment if I had to go through with it. While it doesn’t make much it’s my form of therapy. There’s many a millionaire would love to have a farm to prick around on at the moment and after a year or two getting home at 5 or being stuck in traffic with nothing to do when you get home it’s a far worse form of depression than trying to solve a run of hardship from farming.
While this corona virus is pure grief it’s giving me time to catch up on a multitude of tasks around the place, along with extra time with the kids messing about on it.
There’s a brilliant social side to it too, even look at this section of boards compared to other sections.
It doesn’t matter what section people are in, if you can put food on the table and enjoy what your at it’s a pure gift.
Selling up is always an option but you definitely need to find something that’s going to matter to you and that’s going to hold its value the same way as a farm does. I’ve seen plenty take good money for land and are no happier or better off now.
I often meet a neighbor who I bought a bit of ground off. I’ve the ground paid for tidied and reseeded and into its prime. The neighbor bought a new car and a few bits and pieces around the place but it’s all getting old now and often wonder would they do it again or do they ever regret it for what I’d call consumables and looking good for a while.

erada

erada wrote: »

Do many farmers who suffer setback after setback such as poor weather and prices, increasing insurance, feed and fertilizer costs, not to mention more and more rules and regulations ever feel like selling up and trying a different path?

Most hardship is self imposed, lads often don't know any different and view openness to change as a weakness or threat.

_Brian

Jjameson wrote: »

How long have you been with them Brian?

Never.
But I’m not a snob to any job that provides people with steady reliable income. Truth is most beef farmers would be better off financially if they worked their hours in Aldi than handing Larry below cost raw materials.

rounders

erada wrote: »

Do many farmers who suffer setback after setback such as poor weather and prices, increasing insurance, feed and fertilizer costs, not to mention more and more rules and regulations ever feel like selling up and trying a different path?

Do what's right for you!

Most of the comments I've seen here so far are the classic farming mindset of you got the land you can't sell no matter what.

If it's not for you then get out of farming. Simple as that. Don't let "what will the neighbours think", other farmer and definitely people on here tell you what you should and shouldn't too. It's a decision you need to make for your own reasons. If you have fallen out of love with it then no point sticking with it.

What I would say is though, before selling up, rent the place out for 3-4 years. Go get a normal job and see how you feel. If you enjoy the extra time, the job security etc then you knows it's right for you.

Part of you might miss the farm , than in that case maybe keep 10-15 acres, keep a few sucklers as a hobby more than anything. Keeps you in touch with your roots.

Main thing is you do what's best for you and not what others say you can and can't do.

Also if you are feeling overwhelmed in the current situation, talk to friends and family! It does help!

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Never.
But I’m not a snob to any job that provides people with steady reliable income. Truth is most beef farmers would be better off financially if they worked their hours in Aldi than handing Larry below cost raw materials.

Aye....i was 5 plus years qualified in garage and still earned less than aldi pays


Its not to be turned nose up at,e12 an hour

Nekarsulm

About 15 years ago an elderly batchelor sold up his 30 acres and moved 50 miles away to be near his niece in NI.
The couple that bought it decided that land wasn't their thing and sold it to a nursery man.
The did a bit of work to the house, bought a BMW and a motorhome.
The rest they invested in bank shares......
He told me a few years ago that when he looks out the window,all he can see is a car worth a quarter of what he give for it, a MH worth less than half, and another man tilling the fields he used to own.
Don't ask him anything about Bank Shares!

Say my name

_Brian wrote: »

Never.
But I’m not a snob to any job that provides people with steady reliable income. Truth is most beef farmers would be better off financially if they worked their hours in Aldi than handing Larry below cost raw materials.

It's a bit below the belt calling him a snob.
He just said he couldn't do that work.
I couldn't either. I wouldn't be able for it.
There's loads of jobs I bet you wouldn't do as well Brian.
Virtue signalling is also a thing too. Especially rampant on social media.

Say my name

Jjameson wrote: »

As I stated clearly I have worked off farm for the most of my working life including supermarket work for a time. Bar you have some kind of papers and education working for a wage is no bed of roses and the there is very little between you and the road. If you are lucky enough to be gifted a debt free farm, and have a bit of a sfp you are bloody lucky.

Hopefully the clique and masses thank your post.

Sometimes I think people don't read posts fully and reach for the high horse before replying or going for the thanks button.
As you were Sir..

beauf

This is an interesting thread.

I'd say many here would find a office or 9-5 job soul destroying, head wrecking. More do if stuck inside the same room all day, with people you might not like. Then again no point killing yourself if a farm is not viable. So it's about life work balance and finding a level which is sustainable, both financially and mentally.

Mr_Muffin

Is it just beef farmers that struggle to make a living? I know plenty of dairy farmers around my area (including extended family) who are extremely well off.

It seems like a great lifestyle, but also alot of work.

K.G.

Sentiment is great but working for nothing is a complete waste of time
Put in long hours and have enough problems but at least year on year i can see i m making a nice few bob but if i was beef farming id have it leased long go.

einn32

I think for a lot of farmers in Ireland income is irrelevant. I've heard a person who farms part time say that once you forget about the economics it's a great life. They just want to farm and that's it. Another retired guy said it's a waste of time money wise but therapy for him. It's such an intriguing industry in Ireland in this regard. The psychology amazes me. If you told most people you have to work all hours and you're not sure how much you will get paid or get paid at all, they would laugh at you. But farmers keep at it and seem happy to. So it seems to boil down to lifestyle and love of the game as to whether you sell up or not for a lot of people.

Say my name

I heard tell of a fella from the inner city of Cork that never drove a tractor in his life.
Laid off from work with this Covid business. Bombing around on a mf35 on a farm now reclaiming land and going to pick stones. Absolutely loving the freedom.
His aim now when Covid has settled is to buy a vintage tractor and do it up and spray paint it.

Most people never really know what they want out of life only sometimes you get to see beyond a door and if it looks good you go in.
We're all individuals and know ourselves how we tick.

whelan2

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Is it just beef farmers that struggle to make a living? I know plenty of dairy farmers around my area (including extended family) who are extremely well off.

It seems like a great lifestyle, but also alot of work.

How do you know they are well off. Big machinery, jeeps,sheds etc doesn't mean they are wealthy. They might own none of it. Appearances can be deceptive.

wrangler

whelan2 wrote: »

How do you know they are well off. Big machinery, jeeps,sheds etc doesn't mean they are wealthy. They might own none of it. Appearances can be deceptive.

They seem to be able to employ plenty of workers. which enables them to sidestep the ****ty hard work

Mr_Muffin

whelan2 wrote: »

How do you know they are well off. Big machinery, jeeps,sheds etc doesn't mean they are wealthy. They might own none of it. Appearances can be deceptive.

It's the huge houses they live in, the new cars/jeeps, the ability to support several members of a family from a single farm if need be, the multiple holidays every single year.

I don't have access to their bank accounts, true, so I can't say for sure what they own and how much they are worth. Maybe it's a thing among farmers, to try and give off the appearance that they are wealthy?

Also, how many people inherit something worth hundreds of thousands, if not millions in some cases, and essentially have a job for life waiting as soon as they finish school? The option is always there to sell up and get a regular 9-5 job. How many people in a soul destroying 9-5 job have the option to become a farmer?

Jjameson

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s no doubt about that but what gives any gom the idea you can just rock into Aldi and get a contracted hour job.

They were literally crying out for staff few weeks ago as this crisis kicked off

pconn062

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Is it just beef farmers that struggle to make a living? I know plenty of dairy farmers around my area (including extended family) who are extremely well off.

It seems like a great lifestyle, but also alot of work.

A lot of the farmers I am friendly with and have worked with in the past deal mostly in tillage and potatoes. The majority of them are very well off. What does well off mean? House built on site that cost nothing, two new cars most years, wife able to stay at home without needing to work, foreign travel regularly, investment in other businesses etc. Certainly no shortage of money.

This would be on good quality land in the east of Ireland. Most not involved in animals at all. So money can be made in the right circumstances.

893bet

pconn062 wrote: »

A lot of the farmers I am friendly with and have worked with in the past deal mostly in tillage and potatoes. The majority of them are very well off. What does well off mean? House built on site that cost nothing, two new cars most years, wife able to stay at home without needing to work, foreign travel regularly, investment in other businesses etc. Certainly no shortage of money.

This would be on good quality land in the east of Ireland. Most not involved in animals at all. So money can be made in the right circumstances.

The exception not the rule.

If a farm is label to leave a “profit of 40k” then it would look great on paper.

Chances are the hourly wage would be less than minimum.