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un5byh7sqpd2x0

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

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Don’t give random companies your DNA

GerardKeating

Hugo Handsome Register wrote: »

Don’t give random companies your DNA

Only really an issue for undiscovered serial killers

Mr.Crinklewood

GerardKeating wrote: »

Only really an issue for undiscovered serial killers

Only ones that make mistakes.

garrkell

If no one gives their DNA then they can't catch the serial killers.....

AndrewJRenko

GerardKeating wrote: »

Only really an issue for undiscovered serial killers

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Only ones that make mistakes.

It's a much bigger issue.


Wait till you find that you can't get health insurance or life insurance because your DNA showed up a possibility of a genetic condition.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/don-t-buy-online-dna-ancestry-tests-you-are-the-real-product-1.3713619

un5byh7sqpd2x0

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's a much bigger issue.


Wait till you find that you can't get health insurance or life insurance because your DNA showed up a possibility of a genetic condition.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/don-t-buy-online-dna-ancestry-tests-you-are-the-real-product-1.3713619

Exactly

spurious

That's why you only give to the companies that do not pass it on, where the information remains your property, not theirs.
I'm not sure that is the case with ancestry.

I know for the plethora of new companies it is very much not the case.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

spurious wrote: »

That's why you only give to the companies that do not pass it on, where the information remains your property, not theirs.
I'm not sure that is the case with ancestry.

I know for the plethora of new companies it is very much not the case.

As a privately owned American company you can be sure as hell your data is going to be sold.

"We use your Personal Information to market new products and offers from us or our business partners. This includes advertising personalized to you based on your interests. We do not share your Genetic Information with third-party marketers, insurance companies or employers, and we will not use your Genetic Information for marketing or personalized advertising without getting your explicit consent."

https://www.ancestry.com/cs/legal/privacystatement

If what they said here wasn't true they would have been sued out of existence by now.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

"We use your Personal Information to market new products and offers from us or our business partners. This includes advertising personalized to you based on your interests. We do not share your Genetic Information with third-party marketers, insurance companies or employers, and we will not use your Genetic Information for marketing or personalized advertising without getting your explicit consent."

https://www.ancestry.com/cs/legal/privacystatement

If what they said here wasn't true they would have been sued out of existence by now.

And what happens when they sell the company?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And what happens when they sell the company?

Is the average person concerned about what would happen to their files if e.g. Dropbox went bust? Or their stored debit card details if e.g. Amazon went bust? No, because nothing will happen with it.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

Is the average person concerned about what would happen to their files if e.g. Dropbox went bust? Or their stored debit card details if e.g. Amazon went bust? No, because nothing will happen with it.

Does the average person keep their defining genetic code on Dropbox or Amazon?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does the average person keep their defining genetic code on Dropbox or Amazon?

No, they keep their credit card details. Which is more important to the average person, paying more for life insurance because their genetic details were sold to a third party by Ancestry, or having no money at all to pay for life insurance because Amazon sold your credit card details to a third party which resulted in your money being stolen?

If you're not worried about your credit card details being stolen then you shouldn't worry about your DNA, makes no sense. Ancestry is a huge company with a market value of a few billion euro, they don't need do anything shady in order to be significantly profitable.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

No, they keep their credit card details. Which is more important to the average person, paying more for life insurance because their genetic details were sold to a third party by Ancestry, or having no money at all to pay for life insurance because Amazon sold your credit card details to a third party which resulted in your money being stolen?

If you're not worried about your credit card details being stolen then you shouldn't worry about your DNA, makes no sense. Ancestry is a huge company with a market value of a few billion euro, they don't need do anything shady in order to be significantly profitable.

When my credit card account was hacked a couple of years ago, the bank refunded the dodgy transactions and gave me a new credit card number.


Who's going to give you new DNA?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When my credit card account was hacked a couple of years ago, the bank refunded the dodgy transactions and gave me a new credit card number.


Who's going to give you new DNA?

So your logic is that the average person would prefer to take the risk of all their money being stolen and possibly or possibly not getting it back over someone stealing their precious DNA?

Most people automatically backup their photos in Dropbox, Google Photos etc. Are these peoples lives going to be more affected if their raunchy photos are posted online without their permission or if their DNA is taken?

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

So your logic is that the average person would prefer to take the risk of all their money being stolen and possibly or possibly not getting it back over someone stealing their precious DNA?

Most people automatically backup their photos in Dropbox, Google Photos etc. Are these peoples lives going to be more affected if their raunchy photos are posted online without their permission or if their DNA is taken?

It's not really an either/or choice. Comparisons to credit cards or raunchy photos are really irrelevant.


What matters is DNA, and the impacts of which certainly aren't generally understood by the man on the street, and probably aren't understood by many of the experts involved.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're not worried about your credit card details being stolen then you shouldn't worry about your DNA, makes no sense. Ancestry is a huge company with a market value of a few billion euro, they don't need do anything shady in order to be significantly profitable.

So huge, profitable companies like Google and Facebook never do anything shady to make money?


Come on.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not really an either/or choice. Comparisons to credit cards or raunchy photos are really irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant at all though. Why should we be more comfortable about the possibility of having our lives severely affected by having either our money or privacy stolen compared to our DNA stolen?

What matters is DNA, and the impacts of which certainly aren't generally understood by the man on the street, and probably aren't understood by many of the experts involved

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So huge, profitable companies like Google and Facebook never do anything shady to make money?


Come on.

Sources?

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not irrelevant at all though. Why should we be more comfortable about the possibility of having our lives severely affected by having either our money or privacy stolen compared to our DNA stolen?

Because most of us don't understand the impacts of having our DNA stolen.

Deleted User wrote: »

Sources?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-accused-by-rival-of-fundamental-gdpr-breaches-1.4203981


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Because most of us don't understand the impacts of having our DNA stolen.

And what is that impact? And in what way is it greater than having our money or photos stolen?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-accused-by-rival-of-fundamental-gdpr-breaches-1.4203981

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal

First link is just a rival trying to badmouth Google without any merit and second link was caused by data-scraping by GSR and Cambridge Analytica and Facebook did not benefit from the breach.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

And what is that impact? And in what way is it greater than having our money or photos stolen?

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/6/17435166/myheritage-dna-breach-genetic-privacy-bioethics
https://www.businessinsider.com/privacy-security-risks-genetic-testing-23andme-ancestry-dna-2019-2?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/video/home-dna-testing-is-your-privacy-at-risk-of-a-data-breach-1450470467980

Deleted User wrote: »

First link is just a rival trying to badmouth Google without any merit and second link was caused by data-scraping by GSR and Cambridge Analytica and Facebook did not benefit from the breach.

On the first one, the Irish Data Protection Commissioner seems to think that the complaint has enough merit to warrant investigation.


https://www.joe.ie/tech/privacy-probe-launched-google-irelands-data-protection-commission-670019


The Irish DPC is not known for being jumpy or trigger happy. It's pretty hard to get them to take any action.


On the second one, are you actually saying that Facebook got zero ad revenue from pages with Cambridge Analytica surveys?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/6/17435166/myheritage-dna-breach-genetic-privacy-bioethics
https://www.businessinsider.com/privacy-security-risks-genetic-testing-23andme-ancestry-dna-2019-2?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/video/home-dna-testing-is-your-privacy-at-risk-of-a-data-breach-1450470467980

I see nothing in these links that explains why having your money/photos stolen is not as bad as your DNA being stolen. Hackers holding your DNA for ransom? They can't do this with your raunchy photos?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

On the first one, the Irish Data Protection Commissioner seems to think that the complaint has enough merit to warrant investigation.
https://www.joe.ie/tech/privacy-probe-launched-google-irelands-data-protection-commission-670019
The Irish DPC is not known for being jumpy or trigger happy. It's pretty hard to get them to take any action.


On the second one, are you actually saying that Facebook got zero ad revenue from pages with Cambridge Analytica surveys?

First one, innocent until proven guilty. The DPC has investigated companies and found them innocent before.

Second one, doesn't matter, it's irrelevant to the point we are making as they did not do it intentionally as you are suggesting Ancestry are doing. Or do you have a conspiracy theory about that too?

And you still haven't given any logic as to why people should be more worried about a third party getting their hands on their DNA than on their photos. As I said, are peoples lives going to be more affected if their raunchy photos are posted online without their permission or if their DNA is taken?

_Whimsical_

Yevon wrote: »

Companies can't ask about or take genetic conditions into account for insurance.

At this point in time.
You'd be taking a heft bet on that not changing.

On another note anyone find anything useful or interesting in what is available free?

AndrewJRenko

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

At this point in time.
You'd be taking a heft bet on that not changing.

Indeed, the 2015 review of the Disability Act regs on genetic testing never actually completed iirc, so some degree of change is likely. It's also worth noting that the current regs cover 'employment' but don't cover the gig economy, people who aren't actually employed.



On the broader issue, there are many risks with letting your DNA get outside of your personal control.


It could be held for ransom purposes, with threats to leak or disclose your health issues. It could be used by unscrupulous pharma companies to produce cures which are then only sold for ginormous profits to the highest bidder, and you've helped them along that path. It could be used by unscrupulous law enforcement bodies to further their discriminatory actions against racial groups or social groups. It could be used by unscrupulous governments (let's assume that we have a Trump or a Johnson in power here in ten or twenty years time) to restrict access to healthcare.


And the quality and accuracy of these DNA analyses is suspect too, so the conclusions about your heritage and your health are often questionable.



https://gizmodo.com/how-dna-testing-botched-my-familys-heritage-and-probab-1820932637

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It could be held for ransom purposes

As can anything you keep in the cloud.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It could be used by unscrupulous pharma companies to produce cures which are then only sold for ginormous profits to the highest bidder, and you've helped them along that path.

It could also be used positively in medicine to create cures, but it won't be used in either sense as this is just a conspiracy theory.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It could be used by unscrupulous law enforcement bodies to further their discriminatory actions against racial groups or social groups.

As can many things you can keep in the cloud. Again, won't happen anyway, just a conspiracy theory.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It could be used by unscrupulous governments (let's assume that we have a Trump or a Johnson in power here in ten or twenty years time) to restrict access to healthcare.

Wow, even people in the conspiracy theory forum might take a step back from that one. :pac:

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow, even people in the conspiracy theory forum might take a step back from that one. :pac:

Yeah, if you told them ten years ago that Trump would be heading for a 2nd term as President and Johnson would be UK PM, they'd have laughed you out of the room.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, if you told them ten years ago that Trump would be heading for a 2nd term as President and Johnson would be UK PM, they'd have laughed you out of the room.

That's not what a conspiracy theory is.

torrevieja

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