Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

yagan

Antho12 wrote: »

Finally someone mentioning this on here! People who rent in Dublin city are not always doing so because of work, most of them actually do want to live in Dublin.

I moved to Dublin to perfect the fake Canada goose jacket look and to join an electric scooter gang. Off to Howth junction after a cuppa.

IngazZagni

dalyboy wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more.

A mate of mine (sadly split with his wife last year) was left to witness the horror of the prospect of renting in Dublin.

He went to see one property in Druncondra (1 bed apt) for €1500 pm. 450sft. The queue was down the street. He packed his bag , got on a plane to Malaga and hasn’t looked back. He’s paying €475 pm for a 3 bed penthouse near a marina.

The contrast is extraordinary for what you get here and elsewhere in both quality and price. Ireland clearly displays massive disfunction at fundamental level.

This is true but there is one key difference. The salaries. The average take home pay per month in Malaga is €1,295. That's about €300 less than the PUP here.
If of course you can get get a good salary then of course that's great. Perhaps the overall lifestyle will make money less important to you as well. Also note that rental prices are much lower currently in Malaga due to a lack of tourists.

dalyboy

IngazZagni wrote: »

This is true but there is one key difference. The salaries. The average take home pay per month in Malaga is €1,295. That's about €300 less than the PUP here.
If of course you can get get a good salary then of course that's great. Perhaps the overall lifestyle will make money less important to you as well. Also note that rental prices are much lower currently in Malaga due to a lack of tourists.

A persons circumstances absolutely do come into making a decision to either stay in Dublin and get fleeced on rent or search options abroad.

In my friends case the variables were stacked in favour of going to Spain. He’s suffered no financial loss in the move at all. Only gained.

-No kids
-Has an online business not tied geographically to operate
-easily return to Ireland short stays with numerous cheap flights.
-healthy
-young
-adventurist seeking
-no elderly family to worry about
-etc etc

He had a 1 year long lease agreement with the landlord so not subject to tourism price fluctuations and just signed a 24 month agreement last week (same place)

yagan

Work is the key. I left Dublin in the 90s for a job down the country and had an excellent time, quality of life was multiple times better, then went abroad for the last decade for career and travel opportunity and am only back in Dublin now for a foothold job, transfer out of Dublin in motion.

It was depressing to see we've got a contrived distorted market again, but at least the old duopoly of landlord parties have had to prop eachother up just to stay in power. It feels like a political culture change is inevitable.

John1648

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

Phat Cat

Ozark707 wrote: »

For a 1 bed? Maybe a two bed?

Decent one beds are around €1800 in Dublin now. Anything less then that are usually older builds or converted houses, mostly with low BER ratings and/or in less derisible areas.

It's getting dangerously close to costing the same to rent here as it is in London, which in crazy considering London is pretty much a megacity, like New York, where high salaries go hand in hand with high rents. In comparisons, unless you are an IT contractor with one of the big multinationals, then the average rent prices here are extremely skewed compared to the average salaries.

selassie

Phat Cat wrote: »

Decent one beds are around €1800 in Dublin now. Anything less then that are usually older builds or converted houses, mostly with low BER ratings and/or in less derisible areas.

It's getting dangerously close to costing the same to rent here as it is in London, which in crazy considering London is pretty much a megacity, like New York, where high salaries go hand in hand with high rents. In comparisons, unless you are an IT contractor with one of the big multinationals, then the average rent prices here are extremely skewed compared to the average salaries.

nearly 2/3rds of households on under 65k a year. Government inflated rental market to keep property prices high.

pockets3d

John1648 wrote: »

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

I'm choking on my own rage here

pockets3d

pockets3d wrote: »

I'm choking on my own rage here

I was replying, and then I thought better of it

pockets3d

Deleted User wrote: »

I was replying, and then I thought better of it

Dear people of Ireland,


As a wealthy foreigner I want to make some money on your misery.
Can you check my sums?

Dav010

pockets3d wrote: »

Dear people of Ireland,


As a wealthy foreigner I want to make some money on your misery.
Can you check my sums?

Eh, get over yourself. If you don’t want large investment companies buying up developments and you don’t want single unit BTL investors, who do you think is going to provide the rental units needed?

pockets3d

Dav010 wrote: »

Eh, get over yourself. If you don’t want large investment companies buying up developments and you don’t want single unit BTL investors, who do you think is going to provide the rental units needed?

Our benevolent TDs

Dav010

pockets3d wrote: »

Our benevolent TDs

Investor wants to buy single unit for rent, what’s the issue?

PommieBast

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Do it. I couldn't bring myself to move home a few years ago because of it. I got a 5 bed with a huge garden here in the UK for £1000 a month with a gardener turning up weekly thrown in. Don't buy in to the Dublin rent farce if you can move.

For me personally it is the combination of the dysfunctional market coupled with the harshest lockdown in Europe that has turned Dublin into a broken dream. Concluded I was better off clearing the deck and starting over from scratch. Handed in notice last week.

dalyboy wrote: »

The contrast is extraordinary for what you get here and elsewhere in both quality and price. Ireland clearly displays massive disfunction at fundamental level.

There's the third factor: How EAs treat people. After doing some viewings in the UK last summer how things are done back here in Ireland seems like the Muscat Mutrah Souq bazaar. Not somewhere would want to hand over half a million quid.

Phat Cat

PommieBast wrote: »

There's the third factor: How EAs treat people. After doing some viewings in the UK last summer how things are done back here in Ireland seems like the Muscat Mutrah Souq bazaar. Not somewhere would want to hand over half a million quid.

+1

Estate agents are up there with recruiters and used car sales people, they are definitely part of the overall problem too.

Dav010

Having lived, and bought properties in the UK, I wouldn’t hold them up as being more virtuous by any stretch. They are just as eager to please sellers and push prices up, which of course is what you want as a seller.

The last apartment I sold there, I only found out afterwards that the EA I paid to sell the property, also arranged finance for the buyer.

PommieBast

Dav010 wrote: »

Having lived, and bought properties in the UK, I wouldn’t hold them up as being more virtuous by any stretch. They are just as eager to please sellers and push prices up, which of course is what you want as a seller.

Certainly not more virtuous but they are at least more pleasant to deal with, such as not being treated like cattle at viewings. The UK also has duty of disclosure regulations which I think would cause a good portion of Irish EAs to be declared unfit to practice.

Donald Trump

John1648 wrote: »

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

I think there are different tax rules for rental income for non-resident landlords. I could be wrong. I don't think you'll get those tax credits and also get away with the PRSI.

Either way, you likely are supposed to declare that income whether you reside. If there is a double taxation treaty, you would be able to deduct the tax paid in one jurisdiction from your liability in the other. You might of course be living somewhere with no income tax

agoodpunt

pockets3d wrote: »

I'm choking on my own rage here

Sarcasism asside, the risks, future value and refurbishment/replacements after wear and tear.
uncertain future restrictions and regs in the market are enough already to make BTL a no go area ok for cockoos deep pockets and no taxes on rental.
Trend is to exit anyway taxes are the same even if non resident

houseyhouse

John1648 wrote: »

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

This is the kind of back-of-the envelope calculation that makes people think landlords are raking it in hand over fist.

What about repairs and maintenance? The cost of replacing furniture/appliances every few years? The cost of cleaning and repainting between tenants? Annual chimney cleaning and boiler servicing? Insurance (a legal requirement for landlords)? RTB registration fees?

You also should not assume 100% occupancy. The advice is to assume 11 months of occupancy per year to leave time for cleaning/repainting/repairs between tenants as well as time to find a new tenant.

And I don't think non-resident landlords are entitled to tax credits. You would likely be taxed at 42% on all income and probably have to pay USC, though I am not sure on that at all.

I rent out an apartment for a similar amount and most years it about breaks even. We do have a small mortgage on it that costs 5-6k per year but most of that is tax deductible. We pay under 2k off the capital each year. That's the 'income' that we get from it. Some years there are more repair/repainting/replacement costs and it loses money. Others there are fewer costs and it makes a small profit. And that's with us doing a lot of the smaller maintenance jobs ourselves, which you won't be able to do from abroad.

dixiefly

How do people see the market for getting a rental in Dublin (probably somewhere around the city centre) for a 2 bed apartment over the coming months?

My daughter and he boyfriend have recently started looking. They both have decent jobs.

Is there an area that could be recommended for value? Is daft.ie the best place to look?

Thanks

JimmyVik

houseyhouse wrote: »

This is the kind of back-of-the envelope calculation that makes people think landlords are raking it in hand over fist.

What about repairs and maintenance? The cost of replacing furniture/appliances every few years? The cost of cleaning and repainting between tenants? Annual chimney cleaning and boiler servicing? Insurance (a legal requirement for landlords)? RTB registration fees?

You also should not assume 100% occupancy. The advice is to assume 11 months of occupancy per year to leave time for cleaning/repainting/repairs between tenants as well as time to find a new tenant.

And I don't think non-resident landlords are entitled to tax credits. You would likely be taxed at 42% on all income and probably have to pay USC, though I am not sure on that at all.

I rent out an apartment for a similar amount and most years it about breaks even. We do have a small mortgage on it that costs 5-6k per year but most of that is tax deductible. We pay under 2k off the capital each year. That's the 'income' that we get from it. Some years there are more repair/repainting/replacement costs and it loses money. Others there are fewer costs and it makes a small profit. And that's with us doing a lot of the smaller maintenance jobs ourselves, which you won't be able to do from abroad.

He seems to be spamming every thread i look in on boards now.
Been told numerous times how bad his assumptions are and yet the spam keeps on going.
Best to ignore at this point i think.

I see sheep

dixiefly wrote: »

How do people see the market for getting a rental in Dublin (probably somewhere around the city centre) for a 2 bed apartment over the coming months?

My daughter and he boyfriend have recently started looking. They both have decent jobs.

Is there an area that could be recommended for value? Is daft.ie the best place to look?

Thanks

Have a thank you for your signature line

Ozark707

Minister proposing a tightening up on STL's. Question is how long this would take to implement.

Under the plans, he said, a property would not be allowed to advertise on the platform without the requisite planning permission.
At present, individuals renting out a home for more than 90 days or landlords letting out a second property to tourists or others on a short-term basis must apply for planning permission either on a new or retention basis. There has been criticism, however, that this is not adequately regulated and homes are still being advertised without permission.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/airbnb-rentals-to-be-targeted-in-government-crackdown-1.4569745

handlemaster

Should the caption of this thread not be changed ?

hometruths

Ozark707 wrote: »

Minister proposing a tightening up on STL's. Question is how long this would take to implement.




https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/airbnb-rentals-to-be-targeted-in-government-crackdown-1.4569745

The other question being why did he not do it last summer when he took office.

cgcsb

I'm noticing that the newer apartments in the docklands are almost all empty. I guess it makes sense for the investment funds to wait longer to achieve higher rents, at least for now.

Is it time we implemented a 'vacancy tax' on companies that own apartment blocks, to push them into lowering their asking rent to market levels. Why should citizens be experiencing a housing crisis when there are thousands of empty apartments in the city centre?

Dav010

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm noticing that the newer apartments in the docklands are almost all empty. I guess it makes sense for the investment funds to wait longer to achieve higher rents, at least for now.

Is it time we implemented a 'vacancy tax' on companies that own apartment blocks, to push them into lowering their asking rent to market levels. Why should citizens be experiencing a housing crisis when there are thousands of empty apartments in the city centre?

Heard minister talking about this on radio this morning. It is very difficult to legislate for a property vacancy tax due to the number of reasons why a property could be empty. Few owners would admit to waiting for higher rents.

He was being interviewed in response to this, some of the challenges with any legislation are mentioned in the article.

https://www.thejournal.ie/vacant-property-tax-3-5441551-May2021/

Jizique

schmittel wrote: »

The other question being why did he not do it last summer when he took office.

Covid, he was busy with Covid

JimmyVik

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm noticing that the newer apartments in the docklands are almost all empty. I guess it makes sense for the investment funds to wait longer to achieve higher rents, at least for now.

Is it time we implemented a 'vacancy tax' on companies that own apartment blocks, to push them into lowering their asking rent to market levels. Why should citizens be experiencing a housing crisis when there are thousands of empty apartments in the city centre?

I heard through the grapevine that my company has rented 12 apartments in a building in the docklands. Rent free until October. Empty until October too, or maybe even later because thats when all the overseas contractors are expected back. They will pay subsidized rent to my company if they want to live in them.