Continue to pay child minder?

Blub123

Have been paying child minder for the last 2 weeks since the crises began.
While my other half's job is safe there is a possibility that I may be in bother if the current crisis extends beyond April.
We have agreement that we don't pay during school holidays and as we are coming into what would have been the Easter hols we don't have the cost for the duration of same.
We are wondering what to do afterwards... While we want to be humane about the situation and aren't being mean we do have our own situation to contend with and what is being paid would go a long way should I suffer a loss of income in the future.. We are not the minders only source of income to the best of my knowledge but none the less a bit of me says its wrong to stop payment.. But another says I should protect my own first and foremost and prepare for the worst.
Paying 50% has entered my mind..
What are others doing.?? And your thoughts.
Hope everyone is staying safe.
Thanks

rob316

I think your been more than decent as is, 2 weeks is plenty I'd stop then she will understand.

Mrs OBumble

When the crisis ends, dobyou want a guaranteed place for your kids? Or can you take the risk that s/he might not have a place for you?

Edgware

rob316 wrote: »

I think your been more than decent as is, 2 weeks is plenty I'd stop then she will understand.

And you will understand when she tells you she is no longer available in a months time

wildwillow

I know my son and his wife are continuing to pay their minder, She is superb and loving. Her own children are early teens and such nice people. They know she is needed for two more years and value her.

That said, both of them still have their jobs and are working from home, and will most likely have work when this is all over. So were able to afford the cost.
Maybe, have a conversation with her and offer a percentage you can afford.

Mr E

Mod: Hi OP, I'm moving this to the Parenting forum which I think would be a better fit for your question.

shesty

We will be paying our minder about 50%.She wouldn't take anything for the last 2 weeks but I can't leave her any longer with no income, and I want to keep her!

lazygal

We are continuing to pay our minder as normal. Unless our incomes drop dramatically its the right thing to do. On a practical level getting a new minder is something I want to avoid.

rainemac

The childminder can surely apply for the covid-19 pandemic payment with social welfare. I dont think it's fair on families to expect them to continue to pay for a service that is not being provided. I am a childminder, closed from the 13th March, claimed the pandemic payment. Additionally I found out the following week that the government decided that childminders were exempt from the childcare services forced closure, nevertheless I would have made the same decision to protect my family and the families that attended my service.

fits

rainemac wrote: »

The childminder can surely apply for the covid-19 pandemic payment with social welfare.

I dont think they can? Would like to hear some clarity on this.

We are continuing to pay ours full rate. Happy to hold the place. If our income fell we would talk to her though.

The_Honeybadger

fits wrote: »

I dont think they can? Would like to hear some clarity on this.

We are continuing to pay ours full rate. Happy to hold the place. If our income fell we would talk to her though.

If they are registered with revenue for the purposes of childminding then they can apply for the payment

If it’s a cash in hand arrangement (not uncommon in this sector) then no.

fits

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

If they are registered with revenue for the purposes of childminding then they can apply for the payment

If it’s a cash in hand arrangement (not uncommon in this sector) then no.

She’d be under the 15 k threshold. So it shouldn’t really make a difference. I’ve no idea if she’s registered with revenue or not but there’d be no benefit from cash in hand arrangement.

Blub123

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

If they are registered with revenue for the purposes of childminding then they can apply for the payment

If it’s a cash in hand arrangement (not uncommon in this sector) then no.

Yes that's the arrangement.
Have spoken with her, paid up to last Friday and agreed 50% is fair on both sides.

Thanks all for your input

Pawwed Rig

If it is an illegal arrangement then the childminder can still apply for the covid supports as the employers are the ones responsible for ensuring that taxes are withheld at source (where relevant) and employers prsi is remitted (where relevant).
Where the childminder is accepting illegal payments and does not have the right to work in Ireland then the case will more than likely end up in the courts if the person tries to make a claim. There was a precedent case a few years ago but I do nor recall if the law was changed on foot of that case.
Where it is a legal arrangement and the parents are registered as employers then the childminder can also get the payments.
Whether someone who is working in their own home minding children availing of the tax free €14k payment can get the covid payment is not clear to me.

fits

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I
Whether someone who is working in their own home minding children availing of the tax free €14k payment can get the covid payment is not clear to me.

Would be good to have some clarity on this alright. A lot of people would fall under this category.

JustAThought

fits wrote: »

Would be good to have some clarity on this alright. A lot of people would fall under this category.

Its a question of you are then cheating the taxpaying public and revenue by not declaring other income and claiming state supports such as FIS, Rent allowance, unemployment allowance while working on the black and pocketing the money.

As regards paying at the full rate I would certainly not. This could easily go on for at least two more months as is, and at that point it will be into the summer and a significant mount of money given for no service. if they are legitimate and out of work as a consequence they can sign on as unemployed and get the 800-1k a month from the state and all the other benefits - so they will not be losing. If they have not been declaring the income and have multiple childrens families who are also paying them 100% or 50% it is also a huge amount when you consider no service given and that there are state supports in place to help people when they lose their job. If they are cheating the tax system and signing on then its win win for them all round - and still no service given. I would be saying we stood by you and paid you for 2 weeks but you understand we cannot afford to continue to do this and leave it at that. A fair and decent person will understand. I think that by the time this is over there will be a lot more people available to mind children and the prices will be driven down overall. Over 200,000 people will lose their jobs and they had 30,000 fraudelent TWSS claims last week alone - that they know of.

Jim Root

We put ours on the payroll from the start, she is able to avail of the COVID payment.

fits

JustAThought wrote: »

Its a question of you are then cheating the taxpaying public and revenue by not declaring other income and claiming state supports such as FIS, Rent allowance, unemployment allowance while working on the black and pocketing the money.

As regards paying at the full rate I would certainly not. This could easily go on for at least two more months as is, and at that point it will be into the summer and a significant mount of money given for no service. if they are legitimate and out of work as a consequence they can sign on as unemployed and get the 800-1k a month from the state and all the other benefits - so they will not be losing. If they have not been declaring the income and have multiple childrens families who are also paying them 100% or 50% it is also a huge amount when you consider no service given and that there are state supports in place to help people when they lose their job.

Well isnt this a generous post all round. Childminders are entitled to earn up to 14 k tax free in their home. :mad: There is nothing not legitimate about it and I absolutely abhor you casting aspersions on it.

I do not know if mine can claim or not and would like some information rather than nasty posts like this.

The_Honeybadger

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Whether someone who is working in their own home minding children availing of the tax free €14k payment can get the covid payment is not clear to me.

Criteria seems to be quite loose, the scheme was hobbled together very quickly so they had no time to consider every individual scenario that may arise, even if they are not earning over the exemption threshold they are still registered for tax and their income has been interrupted. I would apply in this case and the worst that can happen is that it is turned down. I did not see any income threshold in the scheme guidelines, it looks to be a bit of a blunt instrument so low earners may actually be temporarily better off than if they were working. I am open to correction on that.

This sector is absolutely rife with under the table arrangements and it’s times like these when they come back to bite those involved

colm_mcm

Jim Root wrote: »

We put ours on the payroll from the start, she is able to avail of the COVID payment.

That’s probably more a nanny situation, where she’s only minding your kids?

JustAThought

fits, You might not like the fact that there are many people who are social welfare cheats or tax cheats - neither do I. The Parnell St social welfare office had 30,000 fraudelent claims last week. The problem has become so great that real claims are being delayed and the revenue TWSS and social welfare are actively running data checks on TWSS payments and registered addresses with HAP and rent allowance payments - It will be like the ash cloud savings when they are finished mopping up.

I find it as disgusting as you do that people illegally claim benefits hardworking people work and pay tax to provide but there you have it - liars and cheats and opportunists are everywhere. As regards whether people should pay childminders - if they are legitimately out of work and available and looking for work there are social welfare assistance schemes to assist those that are legitimate - in my opinion in relation to this question working families should not be exploited or extorted for fees for services that are not being provided. There are government structures and charities for that. Having paid 2 weeks already at full price is sufficient goodwill IMOin respinse to the question asked. If they are out of work and refusing to claim the dole I would be asking why.

fits

JustAThought wrote: »

You might not like the fact that there are many people who are social welfare cheats or tax cheats - neither do I. The Parnell St social welfare office had 30,000 fraudelent claims last week. The problem has become so great that real claims are being delayed and the revenue TWSS and social welfare are actively running data checks on TWSS payments and registered addresses with HAP and rent allowance payments - It will be like the ash cloud savings when they are finished mopping up.

I find it as disgusting as you do that people illegally claim benefits hardworking people work and pay tax to provide but there you have it - liars and cheats and opportunists are everywhere. As regards whether people should pay childminders - if they are legitimately out of work and available and looking for work there are social welfare assistance schemes to assist those that are legitimate - in my opinion in relation to this question working families should not be exploited or extorted for fees for services that are not being provided. There are government structures and charities for that. Having paid 2 weeks already at full price is sufficient goodwill IMO.

I do not like the fact that is assumed that they and by extension we are tax cheats. IT is absolutely not the case. Please hold your horses with the accusations thanks. And I will continue to pay while we can.

Pawwed Rig

fits wrote: »

She’d be under the 15 k threshold. So it shouldn’t really make a difference. I’ve no idea if she’s registered with revenue or not but there’d be no benefit from cash in hand arrangement.

There is. The parents would have to pay employers PRSI at around 10% which they do not do on a cash situation.

rainemac

Some posts are referring to a nanny or au pair situation.

A childminder is someone that minds in their own home and can earn under 15,000 euro a year declared without paying tax but can pay 500 euro prsi to qualify for maternity benefit, dental etc. The covid-19 pandemic payment was not subject to any usual prsi credit checks, anyone can sign on for it in good faith.

As a childminder my perspective is regardless of parents getting paid, I am not providing a service and therefore cannot charge them for it. I knew I would find a way to survive on the initial social welfare payment and was happy when this was increased.
Parents saying they are getting paid and can pay it now so will, it's great and all. Just think if your job is not guaranteed ie. Not in the Public sector or multinational, then this is a time that you could build your savings to ensure if a job in your household is lost you have a safety net. What if you pay for the next 3 months and then your job is gone and you've paid out €3,000 but dont need the childcare.

No one knows how long this will go on for or what the 'return to normal' will be like..

rainemac

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is. The parents would have to pay employers PRSI at around 10% which they do not do on a cash situation.

This is an employer/employee situation, the person minding the children has the title of 'Nanny' and it is in the parents ie. Employers home. Not a childminder

The_Honeybadger

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is. The parents would have to pay employers PRSI at around 10% which they do not do on a cash situation.

In order to avail of the 15k exemption you must be set up as a sole trader and care for the children in your own home, so PRSI does not arise in that case.

If the children are cared for in their home it should be an employer / employee setup, where PRSI is payable. The €15k figure is irrelevant in that case

Edit: rainemac beat me to it

Larbre34

Nope. Everybody hurts a little in this.

The only reason I would consider paying or part paying your minder is if you feel you are blessed with her and that stopping payments altogether may jeopardise her accepting your kids back once the World gets back to normal.

Riesen_Meal

JustAThought wrote: »

The Parnell St social welfare office had 30,000 fraudelent claims last week

You got a source for that claim?

Sleeper12

The government has set up a fairly generous unemployment scheme. I don't see why you'd continue to pay tbh

NetChat101

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is. The parents would have to pay employers PRSI at around 10% which they do not do on a cash situation.

When a childminder minds children in the minders home then the parents are not employers. If the minder goes to the childrens' house each day, she is effectively an employee, a "nanny". The parents would then pay employers PRSI.

Another important point to that scenario is that if the childminder is an employee then they must be paid at least minimum wage. Whereas if the childminder minds in their own home the rate is much lower.

Pawwed Rig

rainemac wrote: »

This is an employer/employee situation, the person minding the children has the title of 'Nanny' and it is in the parents ie. Employers home. Not a childminder

Yep I mixed up fits and the OP. Mea cupla

chases0102

Interesting reading here.

We have paid our childminder full rate for the last four weeks. I am not privy to her circumstances.

Wife just had second baby so we were going to finish up in the summer anyway.

She suggested a 33% reduction going forward.

It's a tough situation - I am Public Sector so job is secure, but wife going on unpaid leave in due course. Certainly don't want to rack up a significant amount of cost with no service.

It's tricky, as we have been so happy with the service.

What's the going rate for a childminder to come to your house and look after 2 kids, would anyone know?

Anne_cordelia

chases0102 wrote: »

Interesting reading here.

We have paid our childminder full rate for the last four weeks. I am not privy to her circumstances.

Wife just had second baby so we were going to finish up in the summer anyway.

She suggested a 33% reduction going forward.

It's a tough situation - I am Public Sector so job is secure, but wife going on unpaid leave in due course. Certainly don't want to rack up a significant amount of cost with no service.

It's tricky, as we have been so happy with the service.

It’s not your responsibility to ensure she’s registered if she’s a childminder in her own home. Paying for a month is more than fair. Requesting a 33% reduction is very cheeky of her imo. If she was correctly registered with Revenue she could avail of the €350 pandemic unemployment payment. It’s not your problem if she’s not. If your wife is going to be off work for the next 8-9months I would stop paying her now and risk not having her available when you need her again.

Anne_cordelia

Crew Screeching Vapidity wrote: »

What's the going rate for a childminder to come to your house and look after 2 kids, would anyone know?

That’s a nanny. You would have to pay at least minimum wage but probably more. You are also responsible for registering as an employer, deducting taxes and paying 10.75% employers PRSI.

Sleeper12

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

That’s a nanny. You would have to pay at least minimum wage but probably more. You are also responsible for registering as an employer, deducting taxes and paying 10.75% employers PRSI.

You also need to pay for her car insurance. She requires "Nanny" car insurance & employer pays for this. My daughter is a nanny. Qualified childminder. Hourly rate is high. She works around six hours minding four children. Collects them from schools, brings them to after school lessons, does homework etc. She's on close to 20 euro an hour. Well very high teens hourly rate anyway.



You can get someone with no qualification to babysit your children in their own homes for as little as 5 euro an hour. It's very unlikely they will be insured to mind children as a business & most likely wont have nanny car insurance etc.

NetChat101

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You also need to pay for her car insurance. She requires "Nanny" car insurance & employer pays for this. My daughter is a nanny. Qualified childminder. Hourly rate is high. She works around six hours minding four children. Collects them from schools, brings them to after school lessons, does homework etc. She's on close to 20 euro an hour. Well very high teens hourly rate anyway.



You can get someone with no qualification to babysit your children in their own homes for as little as 5 euro an hour. It's very unlikely they will be insured to mind children as a business & most likely wont have nanny car insurance etc.

From my experience, a childminder who minds children in the minder's home does more than just "babysit" - they also do all the things you've listed, collect from school, bring to any classes/clubs the child goes to, and does homework with the child/children.

Parents have lots of options when it comes to childcare, grandparents/a nanny coming to the house/creche/bringing the children to a childminder. And there's a place for every option, it's not the case of one option being better than another, it's about what's best for each individual family and what setting they prefer.

Sleeper12

NetChat101 wrote: »

From my experience, a childminder who minds children in the minder's home does more than just "babysit" - they also do all the things you've listed, collect from school, bring to any classes/clubs the child goes to, and does homework with the child/children.

Parents have lots of options when it comes to childcare, grandparents/a nanny coming to the house/creche/bringing the children to a childminder. And there's a place for every option, it's not the case of one option being better than another, it's about what's best for each individual family and what setting they prefer.

I totally agree with you however having proper insurance, child life saving training & general qualification in childminding you won't get for 5 euro an hour in anyones home. Five euro gets you a glorified babysitter. For a lot of parents this is all they want/need.

NetChat101

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I totally agree with you however having proper insurance, child life saving training & general qualification in childminding you won't get for 5 euro an hour in anyones home. Five euro gets you a glorified babysitter. For a lot of parents this is all they want/need.

And here's me thinking I'm a childminder who treats the little child I mind like one of my own and is valued and appreciated for that. Turns out I'm just a glorified babysitter!!! 😉

But it's a bit insulting to parents who leave their children with a childminder to say "this is ALL they want/need" for their children, as if they are somehow failing their children in doing this.

Anyway, as I said before, people do what's best for their own family, everyone wants something different and that should be respected, not judged.

cant26

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I totally agree with you however having proper insurance, child life saving training & general qualification in childminding you won't get for 5 euro an hour in anyones home. Five euro gets you a glorified babysitter. For a lot of parents this is all they want/need.

This is not true.
My children’s childminder is registered with childminding Ireland, registered as self employed with revenue, first aid trained and Garda vetted. She has childminders insurance.

Her home is subject to inspections by the childcare committee. She adheres to the correct child ratios. Her husband is also vetted. She obviously had her own children young as they are no longer at home and she is still in her forties so young and well able for the kids!

She charges me 5 per hour per child. It’s actually a more expensive option that a crèche for us but she is an absolute legend. She has four or five families, some of the kids are full time, some part time, some Afterschool, some mornings. She is so professional yet unbelievably kind to the kids and the parents! We all love her!

You obviously have some inside knowledge on how a nanny works but you clearly haven’t a clue on how a professional child minder works.

cant26

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You also need to pay for her car insurance. She requires "Nanny" car insurance & employer pays for this. My daughter is a nanny. Qualified childminder. Hourly rate is high. She works around six hours minding four children. Collects them from schools, brings them to after school lessons, does homework etc. She's on close to 20 euro an hour. Well very high teens hourly rate anyway.



You can get someone with no qualification to babysit your children in their own homes for as little as 5 euro an hour. It's very unlikely they will be insured to mind children as a business & most likely wont have nanny car insurance etc.

Is your daughters rate 20 euro per child? If not she’s getting paid a fiver an hour per child! Just like a lot of other childminders

spaceHopper

Has anybody tried the 70% now 85% employment subsidy. Our child minder is on the books as our employee and minds in our home. We are still paying her but it would be nice to get something back. We contacted Revenue and they said we didn't qualify, that was two weeks ago, has anybody else tried and succeeded

lazygal

spaceHopper wrote: »

Has anybody tried the 70% now 85% employment subsidy. Our child minder is on the books as our employee and minds in our home. We are still paying her but it would be nice to get something back. We contacted Revenue and they said we didn't qualify, that was two weeks ago, has anybody else tried and succeeded

I know this is a while ago but I have checked and if your income hasn't changed the employee won't qualify. We also employ a minder in our home and register with Revenue. We're both getting paid the same and working from home. I feel slightly annoyed we're paying for nothing right now but I'm taking the attitude that paying our minder in full is the ethical thing to do. If we had a significant salary drop we'd have to reassess though.

Jim Root

Has anyone brought their minder back to the home to work?

lazygal

Jim Root wrote: »

Has anyone brought their minder back to the home to work?

We haven't yet as it hasn't been essential. If we need her to work (I am an essential worker) we will arrange for her to work offsite in another building we have access to. Once you have them working in your home you're an employer and there's a whole host of things you have to do legally with Revenue etc.

fits

We are still paying also but don’t know for how long. We will see what they say tomorrow. Ours doesn’t mind in our home so it’s a bit different but she only has our two.

spaceHopper

fits wrote: »

We are still paying also but don’t know for how long. We will see what they say tomorrow. Ours doesn’t mind in our home so it’s a bit different but she only has our two.

I don't think much will change, they may relax the 2k bit for exercise but that will make no difference to allowing child minders to start working again. For now we are limbo. Paying her to stay at home and youtube babysitting to kids

spaceHopper

Well it looks like best case end of June worst case phased bases end of July. We are going chase up the wage subsidy again as we don't want to upset our childminder by laying her off. Wish us luck.

cabogirl

lazygal wrote: »

We haven't yet as it hasn't been essential. If we need her to work (I am an essential worker) we will arrange for her to work offsite in another building we have access to. Once you have them working in your home you're an employer and there's a whole host of things you have to do legally with Revenue etc.

Do you mind me asking Lazygal, did she work in your home before? My nanny is coming back to work next week, I’m an essential worker too but can work at home....the demands exceed my ability at this point, can’t do half days anymore to mind my daughter. I didn’t think there were any additional responsibilities at the moment with Revenue, should I give them a call?

lazygal

cabogirl wrote: »

Do you mind me asking Lazygal, did she work in your home before? My nanny is coming back to work next week, I’m an essential worker too but can work at home....the demands exceed my ability at this point, can’t do half days anymore to mind my daughter. I didn’t think there were any additional responsibilities at the moment with Revenue, should I give them a call?

Yes she has always been our employee working in our home. It is simply easier to be above board eg insurance in the home covering any accident, she can claim sick pay, she would have been eligible for the covid payment if necessary. It's easy enough to set up with revenue.

chases0102

Hi all,

I had the conversation with our childminder, and told her that it looks like we will not need her again.

She completely understood. We both are annoyed and disappointed that my son's time there finished in the way it did, abruptly, with no proper goodbye. She was a wonderful childminder but we simply could not justify paying with no service, having paid up for 5 weeks (1 week with a 33% reduction).

A daunting thought, no childcare until September for us. I'm worried about our three year old and the complete lack of interaction with other children. But then I know children are incredibly resilient....it's just hard to see him become lethargic, constantly bored, looking for snacks, etc.