Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

Tork

I think Hulu does too (I've never used it). The BBC iPlayer is very good at detecting that you're using a VPN though so maybe Hulu might work better?

olestoepoke

Tork wrote: »

I think Hulu does too (I've never used it). The BBC iPlayer is very good at detecting that you're using a VPN though so maybe Hulu might work better?

Hasn't detected mine for over a year now.

zerosugarbuzz

Is Hulu available in Ireland? I thought it was US only.

olestoepoke

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Is Hulu available in Ireland? I thought it was US only.

It is and BBCiplayer is only available in the UK, hush hush, wink wink.:D

The Princess Bride

My firestick gives me channels to make me smile.

Isn't Peggy the most unPeggy-like-Peggy you've ever seen?
If you've ever met a Peggy, you'll know what I mean!

(Please don't sing the above ^^^)

Sebastian Dangerfield

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's more in his own head, isn't it? People in that episode were fairly kind and sound to him, but he felt he didn't fit in with them. I know I felt like a duck out of water in Trinity, not being from the same kind of background most others were from. It can be massively alienating. I almost felt like everyone else had some secret language or code and I wasn't in on it. I can't say anyone was unkind but I just felt so incredibly out of place, like Connell does.

You're right, it is in his head. Theres a bit in the pool, episode 6 I think, where what most would deem a very simple question puts him on the verge of a panic attack, and sets in motion a lot of the bad things that follow. Likewise with the debs. He suffers badly from anxiety and makes huge issues out of small things - though I dont doubt that Trinity is pretty daunting for someone from a rural background.

zerosugarbuzz

olestoepoke wrote: »

It is and BBCiplayer is only available in the UK, hush hush, wink wink.:D

I tried to join Hula but it wont accept Paypal from outside the US. Can you pm me detials on how to get these services in Ireland please? Mind you only if its easy as I'm a bit of a technophobe with regard to these things;)

Water John

Nice article here on the wardrobe, when people have clothes on, in Normal People.
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/may/06/why-normal-people-has-the-makings-of-a-fashion-classic

SusieBlue

This is hands down the most relatable, authentic, emotional series I’ve watched in ages. I loved the book too but the way the story was portrayed really struck a cord with me.
I felt every struggle and setback and comeback with them both. I can’t directly relate to some of their experiences, yet I could identify with everything they were going through in some way or another.

It gave the weirdest (in a good way) sense of nostalgia.
It made me want to go back to my teenage self and give her a hug, and it evoked feelings of guilt in me for times where I didn’t stand up for the Marianne’s I came across during my formative years.

I think the portrayal of Connell’s character in particular was just flawless. At the risk of spoiling it for others who may not have watched ahead, I’ll just say that his character development is extremely important in a country where there’s still unfortunately a stigma around mental health issues.
I knew so many lads like him growing up, afraid of their own feelings, unwilling to commit. It was all about the lads & the GAA and they would do nothing to jeopardise their standing in either circle.

It’s easily the best, most realistic Irish show I’ve ever seen. My emotions were so heightened I had a lump in my throat for most episodes & I shed a few tears too.
I think the story is told now though, and another series would spoil it.
I hope the two main leads get the recognition they deserve for their superb performances & enjoy continued success from the platform this will build for them.

Also, the silver chain Connell wore through the series now has its own fan page on Instagram. It currently has just under 50k followers which I think is hilarious :pac:

bitofabind

SusieBlue wrote: »

It’s easily the best, most realistic Irish show I’ve ever seen. My emotions were so heightened I had a lump in my throat for most episodes & I shed a few tears too.

Same. It's been more than a week since I watched it and I'm still thinking about it. A friend texted last night and said "I'm kind of not OK since I watched it" and I get it - it brings up a lot of stuff for people. Past heartbreak, nostalgia, previous pain they've gone through, mental health struggles, especially in these heightened times. The reality of love and relationships and how messy and complicated they are, how people can love each other and hurt each other because that's what humans do.

I read last night that Lenny Abrahamson and all of his Normal People production crew are going to direct the adaptation of Sally Rooney's debut novel Conversations with Friends too.

freak scence

bitofabind wrote: »

Same. It's been more than a week since I watched it and I'm still thinking about it. A friend texted last night and said "I'm kind of not OK since I watched it" and I get it - it brings up a lot of stuff for people. Past heartbreak, nostalgia, previous pain they've gone through, mental health struggles, especially in these heightened times. The reality of love and relationships and how messy and complicated they are, how people can love each other and hurt each other because that's what humans do.

I read last night that Lenny Abrahamson and all of his Normal People production crew are going to direct the adaptation of Sally Rooney's debut novel Conversations with Friends too.

very true my head was in a jock after it , brought up alot of stuff from the past. Its the past though , I normally would run a mile from series like this , but this was excellent

sheroman01

SusieBlue wrote: »

This is hands down the most relatable, authentic, emotional series I’ve watched in ages. I loved the book too but the way the story was portrayed really struck a cord with me.
I felt every struggle and setback and comeback with them both. I can’t directly relate to some of their experiences, yet I could identify with everything they were going through in some way or another.

It gave the weirdest (in a good way) sense of nostalgia.
It made me want to go back to my teenage self and give her a hug, and it evoked feelings of guilt in me for times where I didn’t stand up for the Marianne’s I came across during my formative years.

I think the portrayal of Connell’s character in particular was just flawless. At the risk of spoiling it for others who may not have watched ahead, I’ll just say that his character development is extremely important in a country where there’s still unfortunately a stigma around mental health issues.
I knew so many lads like him growing up, afraid of their own feelings, unwilling to commit. It was all about the lads & the GAA and they would do nothing to jeopardise their standing in either circle.

It’s easily the best, most realistic Irish show I’ve ever seen. My emotions were so heightened I had a lump in my throat for most episodes & I shed a few tears too.
I think the story is told now though, and another series would spoil it.
I hope the two main leads get the recognition they deserve for their superb performances & enjoy continued success from the platform this will build for them.

Also, the silver chain Connell wore through the series now has its own fan page on Instagram. It currently has just under 50k followers which I think is hilarious :pac:

Excellent summary. For anyone who is willing to give this show a chance, or at least watch it with an open mind, will likely fall in love with it, or at least appreciate it. From a male perspective, I connected with so many aspects of the show, particularly Connell. It's so refreshing to see a show like this from an Irish perspective (and so beautifully shot and produced).

"I can’t directly relate to some of their experiences, yet I could identify with everything they were going through in some way or another. " - this reminds me of a lovely scene between Connell and Marianne where he says "Yeah, that's weird....but, I understand it". I dunno, that line stuck with me, really showed his vulnerable side and how compatible they are.

0lordy

I concur with the lat few posts - this wasn't something I would typically watch, don't know why I did really, probably just a passing curiousity.

I watched it all over the weekend. It really hit home. I am not sure why, possibility because it resonated with my own experiences during my late teens/early twenties. Once I was drawn into it, I was fully entangled in the highs and lows of their relationship. The impact was quite profound, unlike any other TV series I have seen. It really got me thinking about past and present relationships and friendships.

The depiction of secondary school was laser-accurate. That sneering slagging atmosphere. Walking the minefield of maintaining peer group respect. Pandering to the rules of the shallow game of social acceptance.

Watching it again with my wife, she's going through the same rollercoaster ride. Even with the benefit of hindsight I am still on edge! Spotting several nuances which I hadn't picked up first time around.

olestoepoke

0lordy wrote: »

I concur with the lat few posts - this wasn't something I would typically watch, don't know why I did really, probably just a passing curiousity.

I watched it all over the weekend. It really hit home. I am not sure why, possibility because it resonated with my own experiences during my late teens/early twenties. Once I was drawn into it, I was fully entangled in the highs and lows of their relationship. The impact was quite profound, unlike any other TV series I have seen. It really got me thinking about past and present relationships and friendships.

The depiction of secondary school was laser-accurate. That sneering slagging atmosphere. Walking the minefield of maintaining peer group respect. Pandering to the rules of the shallow game of social acceptance.

Watching it again with my wife, she's going through the same rollercoaster ride. Even with the benefit of hindsight I am still on edge! Spotting several nuances which I hadn't picked up first time around.

The biggest compliment I can give this show is that I watched it again. I have never done that before. And yes there are several things you miss the first time around.

2lazytogetup

Tork wrote: »

I think Hulu does too (I've never used it). The BBC iPlayer is very good at detecting that you're using a VPN though so maybe Hulu might work better?

expressvpn works

olestoepoke

2lazytogetup wrote: »

expressvpn works

I can confirm that. The free ones are terrible. I tried several before I found the one you mentioned.

wakka12

Omg that scene where Connall asks her if she'd be embarassed if her friends in Dublin found out they were together in secondary school :( Actually one of the saddest scenes I've ever watched,was in tears

All that fandango

wakka12 wrote:

Omg that scene where Connall asks her if she'd be embarassed if her friends in Dublin found out they were together in secondary school Actually one of the saddest scenes I've ever watched,was in tears

Pure karma for him wasnt it?

MoonUnit75

Didn't think much of this, but only half way through. I know its probably not aimed at me though. It seems to be written for a particular audience. It is atmospheric and observant but story and character development is poor IMO. It comes across to me as very contrived. The main Marianne story seems to be just the tired cliche of the dowdy, un-charasmatic and socially awkward girl who no one likes. All of a sudden, however, the whole world realises how amazing she really is. But there's no journey or major transforming event apart from a new wardrobe and look. The world just flips on its head, she becomes the popular one who gets the guy. The story completely skips this journey from awkward and excluded girl in school to popular and desirable woman in college. She disappears from school and her world magically transforms.

None of the male characters are really likeable. Almost all are one dimensional, either egotistical arseholes or sensitive, insecure white knights. There seems to be no fathers on the scene who might sit awkwardly in the middle.

I thought the storyline where the mother goes off on her son and loses all respect for him for breaking up with a one night stand was totally OTT and unrealistic, even though the mother would have known Marianne from working at her house. It only seemed to further the totally unique unappreciated and 'amazingness' of Marianne.

I saw a headline praising its handling of consent when in reality it expertly avoids any complexity. She is practically ordering him to get undressed and later have sex with her but he keeps 'double checking'. If the book/TV show really wanted to explore consent it could portray the more likely and thorny scenario where each are unsure of what the other person is really comfortable with and where words, intentions and actions don't match perfectly like they do here. All it really says about consent is that even if she is totally sober and practically demanding to go further, the male should put in place all the obstacles and formalities.

Will see how the story develops but the pacing is so slow and tedious I might not make it!

Sardonicat

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Didn't think much of this, but only half way through. I know its probably not aimed at me though. It seems to be written for a particular audience. It is atmospheric and observant but story and character development is poor IMO. It comes across to me as very contrived. The main Marianne story seems to be just the tired cliche of the dowdy, un-charasmatic and socially awkward girl who no one likes. All of a sudden, however, the whole world realises how amazing she really is. But there's no journey or major transforming event apart from a new wardrobe and look. The world just flips on its head, she becomes the popular one who gets the guy. The story completely skips this journey from awkward and excluded girl in school to popular and desirable woman in college. She disappears from school and her world magically transforms.

None of the male characters are really likeable. Almost all are one dimensional, either egotistical arseholes or sensitive, insecure white knights. There seems to be no fathers on the scene who might sit awkwardly in the middle.

I thought the storyline where the mother goes off on her son and loses all respect for him for breaking up with a one night stand was totally OTT and unrealistic, even though the mother would have known Marianne from working at her house. It only seemed to further the totally unique unappreciated and 'amazingness' of Marianne.

I saw a headline praising its handling of consent when in reality it expertly avoids any complexity. She is practically ordering him to get undressed and later have sex with her but he keeps 'double checking'. If the book/TV show really wanted to explore consent it could portray the more likely and thorny scenario where each are unsure of what the other person is really comfortable with and where words, intentions and actions don't match perfectly like they do here. All it really says about consent is that even if she is totally sober and practically demanding to go further, the male should put in place all the obstacles and formalities.

Will see how the story develops but the pacing is so slow and tedious I might not make it!

He didn't break up with a one night stand! Where are you getting that from? He was having a relationship with her but he wanted to keep it secret because he feared ridicule from his peers if they found out. That is why his mother went off on him - for his cowardice and betrayal of his girlfriend.

I agree with you regarding lack of character development for Marianne. Perhaps that is more obvious in the book.

The lad playing Connell is an incredible actor.

MoonUnit75

Maybe I missed it with a lapse of concentration but from watching the series it looked to me like he was hiding it from his mother then she caught her coming down the stairs. It seemed to me that was all she knew before she had a massive go at him for not being with her any more. I could imagine that if they were in a longer relationship and were involved in each others family life but all I could see was them getting together only when they had a 'free house'. I don't get why the mother was so invested in their relationship or even the reasons why he broke up with her. I'd say for most parents they remember its always going to be on-off, falling in and falling out when their children are 17 or 18. It just didn't seem like his mother would have that much invested in their relationship to have that reaction, regardless of the reasons they broke up.

olestoepoke

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Maybe I missed it with a lapse of concentration but from watching the series it looked to me like he was hiding it from his mother then she caught her coming down the stairs. It seemed to me that was all she knew before she had a massive go at him for not being with her any more. I could imagine that if they were in a longer relationship and were involved in each others family life but all I could see was them getting together only when they had a 'free house'. I don't get why the mother was so invested in their relationship or even the reasons why he broke up with her. I'd say for most parents they remember its always going to be on-off, falling in and falling out when their children are 17 or 18. It just didn't seem like his mother would have that much invested in their relationship to have that reaction, regardless of the reasons they broke up.

You need to start again you've got it all wrong

MoonUnit75

olestoepoke wrote: »

You need to start again you've got it all wrong

Probably, it didn't really hold my attention. Not sure I can watch it again but happy to be corrected if I am doing the story a disservice.

Water John

Connell's mother quite early when driving home in the first episode shows that she has a soft spot for Marianne. She says that she is sensitive and has had a hard time.
That frames how she feels about Marianne.

gmisk

olestoepoke wrote: »

Will there be second series? It looks like it's already a huge hit and usually when that happens they try to milk it. Will Sally Rooney write a second book? Not sure how I'd feel about that, would it ruin it?

It was perfect as it was, I seriously hope not.
There is no second book and no need for one imo.

I liked the book a lot but I think I actually preferred the tv show. The small changes worked well.

I must admit I thought episode 9 was rather poor compared to the rest of it though, changes there didn't help.

I think they are making a tv series version of her older book conversations with friends...which I must admit I wasn't as fond of.

MoonUnit75

Water John wrote: »

Connell's mother quite early when driving home in the first episode shows that she has a soft spot for Marianne. She says that she is sensitive and has had a hard time.
That frames how she feels about Marianne.

Yeah I get that. It just seemed really cack-handed while I was watching it. He tells his mother he's taking some other girl to the debs and she tells him to pull over to lay into him. It seemed like she had almost omniscient insight into what was going on when just a few minutes earlier he just said it would be better to keep it quiet. It just seemed like the mother was a really unsubtle audience insert, supposedly unleashing all the audience's disapproval for his conduct having watched their relationship develop. She seemed to just instinctively know her son was a piece of crap.

gmisk

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yeah I get that. It just seemed really cack-handed while I was watching it. He tells his mother he's taking some other girl to the debs and she tells him to pull over to lay into him. It seemed like she had almost omniscient insight into what was going on when just a few minutes earlier he just said it would be better to keep it quiet. It just seemed like the mother was a really unsubtle audience insert, supposedly unleashing all the audience's disapproval for his conduct having watched their relationship develop. She seemed to just instinctively know her son was a piece of crap.

I totally disagree I thought it was really well done, Sarah Greene really sold the relationship to me, there was a bit more connective tissue to it in the book. She doesn't think he is a piece of crap, quite the opposite, she was just hugely upset by him treating Marianne so poorly. She is close to Marianne and knows how vulnerable she was and what her home life was like.

olestoepoke

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yeah I get that. It just seemed really cack-handed while I was watching it. He tells his mother he's taking some other girl to the debs and she tells him to pull over to lay into him. It seemed like she had almost omniscient insight into what was going on when just a few minutes earlier he just said it would be better to keep it quiet. It just seemed like the mother was a really unsubtle audience insert, supposedly unleashing all the audience's disapproval for his conduct having watched their relationship develop. She seemed to just instinctively know her son was a piece of crap.

I didn't read the book but from the show I got the impression that their relationship had been going on a lot longer than a couple of weeks. I can see how this would confuse though because its minutes in the show. I really don't get the nitpicking though in general. If I were to look for flaws in everything I watch most everything would disappoint. I found one or two scenes that I thought would never happen in real life but it's not real life is it, its drama and your supposed to lose yourself in it and enjoy the whole picture. I thought it was a wonderful show and I can already see it being really successful. I wish the two actors all best now as I thought they did a fantastic job.

SusieBlue

I finished this yesterday and it’s still on my mind a lot. Serious reflection going on here :pac:

I think it’s had such an impact because it’s so raw, and so believable.
If it was in any way cliché they would have just gotten back together & lived happily ever after, but instead there was communication issues, stubbornness, insecurity and outside influences constantly getting in their way. They weaved in and out of each other’s life in a way that was just so real.

It also achieved something that shows portraying teenagers & their love lives usually fails to achieve - it wasn’t cringy or clichéd.
Usually I find shows like this stomach turning but the way the story was told was so beautiful. If someone were to tell me tomorrow they are a couple in real life I’d believe it, because their chemistry & connection on screen was that strong.
There was definitely awkward bits but they were so true to life and relatable - I think everyone has walked into a college party knowing no one and have the room practically go silent. Everyone has had to hold themselves together when they’ve just gotten rejected by a person they care about.

Connell is a really good representation of how Irish men appear to society vs. how they really are deep down. This really reminded me of my ex (I know, I know ).
My ex is the kind of person that everyone thinks is sound and confident and happy go lucky, but when you get to know him he is as deep as an ocean and extremely emotional, but always struggled with talking about his feelings & making himself vulnerable.
I think that’s true of a lot of Irish men, and it was so good to see that aspect of the story done so well on screen.

A big thumbs up to the score & the soundtrack too, it’s excellent. I found the soundtrack on Spotify earlier and have been listening to it all day, it’s mighty stuff.

Basq

Having watched episode 10 dealing with Connell's depression..

.. a powerhouse of a performance.

Heartbreaking and all too real.

wakka12

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yeah I get that. It just seemed really cack-handed while I was watching it. He tells his mother he's taking some other girl to the debs and she tells him to pull over to lay into him. It seemed like she had almost omniscient insight into what was going on when just a few minutes earlier he just said it would be better to keep it quiet. It just seemed like the mother was a really unsubtle audience insert, supposedly unleashing all the audience's disapproval for his conduct having watched their relationship develop. She seemed to just instinctively know her son was a piece of crap.

She reacted that way exactly because she was shocked that her son was acting like a piece of crap

LushiousLips

This is one of the best drama series I've seen in a long while. I'm hooked and totally invested in their characters.
I don't think Connell always fitted in with the lads in school, when one of them showed the rest racy pictures of his girlfriend on his phone, I think Connells reaction showed us how different he was to them.
The acting is flawless, the story is so relatable. Big thumbs up from me.

lainey_d_123

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Didn't think much of this, but only half way through. I know its probably not aimed at me though. It seems to be written for a particular audience. It is atmospheric and observant but story and character development is poor IMO. It comes across to me as very contrived. The main Marianne story seems to be just the tired cliche of the dowdy, un-charasmatic and socially awkward girl who no one likes. All of a sudden, however, the whole world realises how amazing she really is. But there's no journey or major transforming event apart from a new wardrobe and look. The world just flips on its head, she becomes the popular one who gets the guy. The story completely skips this journey from awkward and excluded girl in school to popular and desirable woman in college. She disappears from school and her world magically transforms.

None of the male characters are really likeable. Almost all are one dimensional, either egotistical arseholes or sensitive, insecure white knights. There seems to be no fathers on the scene who might sit awkwardly in the middle.

I thought the storyline where the mother goes off on her son and loses all respect for him for breaking up with a one night stand was totally OTT and unrealistic, even though the mother would have known Marianne from working at her house. It only seemed to further the totally unique unappreciated and 'amazingness' of Marianne.

I saw a headline praising its handling of consent when in reality it expertly avoids any complexity. She is practically ordering him to get undressed and later have sex with her but he keeps 'double checking'. If the book/TV show really wanted to explore consent it could portray the more likely and thorny scenario where each are unsure of what the other person is really comfortable with and where words, intentions and actions don't match perfectly like they do here. All it really says about consent is that even if she is totally sober and practically demanding to go further, the male should put in place all the obstacles and formalities.

Will see how the story develops but the pacing is so slow and tedious I might not make it!

This is some serious projection, wow. It says a lot more about you than the show, in all honesty.

I can understand someone finding the pace too slow or the point about the culchie secondary school/GAA culture being a bit too hammered home, but to say the main characters are one dimensional? The fella playing Connell is an absolutely incredible actor. He's neither a white knight nor an arsehole. He behaves appallingly in the first few episodes the way he treats Marianne by hiding their relationship, but shows genuine remorse later on. Marianne herself isn't one dimensional either. She can be quite blunt and downright rude, sometimes to people who don't deserve it, and pretty self centred as well. Hardly a damsel in distress or Cinderella type character.

I think Marianne's 'transformation' being rapid is kind of the whole point. Marianne doesn't actually change at all - her environment does. Suddenly she's among people who are more like her. She was out of place in her rural secondary school as an intellectual girl from a wealthy family, and now she's at an urban university full of people like her, from similar backgrounds and who value the same things she does. Is it really any surprise that she blossoms once she finds her crowd? Loads of people can identify with going to college and suddenly feeling like you've found your 'place'. The exact things she was bullied for at school are the very things people appreciate about her at Trinity - being confident, assertive, headstrong, etc. The opposite is true for Connell. He was a big fish in a small pond back home and now he feels totally out of place and has nothing in common with the people around him.

I don't think it's weird that Connell's mam has a soft spot for Marianne, to be honest. She gets to know her when they chat at Marianne's house, and it seems like she might have been badly treated by someone herself as a teenager. We learn she had Connell when she was young and there's no sign of a dad on the scene - maybe she sees a bit of herself in Marianne too?

The stuff about consent is just totally bizarre, and I have no idea how you even got all that from it. She's a virgin who has never been kissed and he seems fairly experienced. All he does is ask her if she's sure and make sure she's OK - why on earth do you get 'putting obstacles and formalities in place'?! He's just being a decent guy and making sure she doesn't feel pressured and that he doesn't physically hurt her or take advantage of her. If that constitutes 'putting obstacles in place' in your book, I'd change your thinking pretty quick.

MoonUnit75

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

This is some serious projection, wow. It says a lot more about you than the show, in all honesty.

I can understand someone finding the pace too slow or the point about the culchie secondary school/GAA culture being a bit too hammered home, but to say the main characters are one dimensional? The fella playing Connell is an absolutely incredible actor. He's neither a white knight nor an arsehole. He behaves appallingly in the first few episodes the way he treats Marianne by hiding their relationship, but shows genuine remorse later on. Marianne herself isn't one dimensional either. She can be quite blunt and downright rude, sometimes to people who don't deserve it, and pretty self centred as well. Hardly a damsel in distress or Cinderella type character.

I think Marianne's 'transformation' being rapid is kind of the whole point. Marianne doesn't actually change at all - her environment does. Suddenly she's among people who are more like her. She was out of place in her rural secondary school as an intellectual girl from a wealthy family, and now she's at an urban university full of people like her, from similar backgrounds and who value the same things she does. Is it really any surprise that she blossoms once she finds her crowd? Loads of people can identify with going to college and suddenly feeling like you've found your 'place'. The exact things she was bullied for at school are the very things people appreciate about her at Trinity - being confident, assertive, headstrong, etc. The opposite is true for Connell. He was a big fish in a small pond back home and now he feels totally out of place and has nothing in common with the people around him.

I don't think it's weird that Connell's mam has a soft spot for Marianne, to be honest. She gets to know her when they chat at Marianne's house, and it seems like she might have been badly treated by someone herself as a teenager. We learn she had Connell when she was young and there's no sign of a dad on the scene - maybe she sees a bit of herself in Marianne too?

The stuff about consent is just totally bizarre, and I have no idea how you even got all that from it. She's a virgin who has never been kissed and he seems fairly experienced. All he does is ask her if she's sure and make sure she's OK - why on earth do you get 'putting obstacles and formalities in place'?! He's just being a decent guy and making sure she doesn't feel pressured and that he doesn't physically hurt her or take advantage of her. If that constitutes 'putting obstacles in place' in your book, I'd change your thinking pretty quick.

I’m sorry for not agreeing with the correct opinion on this. I think you are reading into my post what you want to read.

I said almost all characters are one dimensional. Apart from the two protagonists they all are. Every guy in it apart from the lead is either a non-entity or a complete raging asshole. I’m up to episode 9 and it just gets worse in that regard. They are surrounded by caricatures and to be honest it comes across a bit elitist.

I didn’t say Marianne’s transformation is inexplicable, I said it was cliched and done to death. It is literally the ugly duckling story and fodder for so many similar stories and movies. There is no character journey or transformative event, she leaves school seemingly broken and just appears again out of nowhere as the queen of the Trinity intellectual set. She even says herself she’s now going out with the top guy in the college.

The ‘stuff about consent’ was in relation to how it’s handling of it has been portrayed in the media as being some kind of landmark in how it handles a very thorny topic. I literally said that that is what I was discussing. My point is it presents very simple cut and dried scenarios for a topic that is so complex and therefore doesn’t live up to the hype in that regard.

I don’t relate to the emotional involvement people have with the TV show, maybe the book lays better ground work.

lainey_d_123

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

I’m sorry for not agreeing with the correct opinion on this. I think you are reading into my post what you want to read.

I said almost all characters are one dimensional. Apart from the two protagonists they all are. Every guy in it apart from the lead is either a non-entity or a complete raging asshole. I’m up to episode 9 and it just gets worse in that regard. They are surrounded by caricatures and to be honest it comes across a bit elitist.

I didn’t say Marianne’s transformation is inexplicable, I said it was cliched and done to death. It is literally the ugly duckling story and fodder for so many similar stories and movies. There is no character journey or transformative event, she leaves school seemingly broken and just appears again out of nowhere as the queen of the Trinity intellectual set. She even says herself she’s now going out with the top guy in the college.

The ‘stuff about consent’ was in relation to how it’s handling of it has been portrayed in the media as being some kind of landmark in how it handles a very thorny topic. I literally said that that is what I was discussing. My point is it presents very simple cut and dried scenarios for a topic that is so complex and therefore doesn’t live up to the hype in that regard.

I don’t relate to the emotional involvement people have with the TV show, maybe the book lays better ground work.

I'm just not seeing it, to be honest. The supporting characters in any series are a bit one-dimensional by definition - we're not supposed to be invested in them like we are with the leads.

Not sure what you mean by the male characters being non-entities or assholes. Gareth (first college bf) wasn't a bad person (he made the effort to befriend Connell and invite him out), just over privileged and boring, and there actually are loads of people like that in Trinity. The only person in the series (that I've seen so far) with truly no redeeming qualities is Marianne's brother, who is truly a nasty piece of work, but I wouldn't say he was one dimensional either. It's clearly hinted at that he feels inferior to Marianne for not being as smart and not having the opportunities she does, and I find him pretty realistic, including the way the mam panders to him and never pulls him up on the way he treats Marianne, and even blames Marianne for it. I've known a good few people act just like that, including my own brother.

There obviously isn't a correct opinion but I find it really surprising that you don't identify with any of the characters or recognise people you know in them. I'm constantly feeling like they all remind me of someone I know or have known, far more than anything I've ever seen in my entire life. It's so realistic it's almost chilling, and I agree with many people on here that it's brought up loads of memories and feelings from the past. Maybe this depends on your life experiences, but I'd say a lot of people who grew up in Ireland and went to college in Dublin can identify with a lot of the scenarios and characters.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick with the Marianne thing if all you get from it that she was an ugly duckling in school and is suddenly queen bee. I haven't got all the way to the end yet, but it's clear she is still quite broken in college. Nothing has magically changed for her - she's just found people she gets on with now and who like her for who she is, nothing more than that. She still has demons, she's still struggling, she still has a terrible relationship with her family. And she wasn't an ugly duckling in the first place - as Connell notes, the guys who are slagging her are doing it because they know they haven't a chance with her. She was always very attractive and well dressed. She started wearing more make-up in Trinity and edgier clothes but that's about it. It's definitely not an 'ugly duckling turns into a swan' kind of story at all and I'd say you're missing the point if that's what you get from it.

Everything Italian

As a mid-50s male, with a grown family, I'm pretty sure I'm not the target audience for this show, but I read the book recently and then watched the full show on BBC iPlayer in recent days. The formats compliment each other and there are clearly areas where the book works better and others where the TV show does. I will certainly re-watch it with my better half once she finishes the book.

Not being from Connall's background (rural, popular jock in school etc) and as someone who tends to wear my heart on my sleeve (ask my missus) rather than suppress emotions, I don't feel I have a lot in common with him (and I certainly wasn't a hit with the girls in my teens either....). That said - and I kind of feel embarrassed even writing this - I was deeply effected by the book, to the point where it stayed with my every thought for long afterwards. It was heart-breakingly disturbing and intoxicating all at the same time and stays with you long after finishing it. The skill of the writer in bringing these feelings to the surface was extraordinary.

The story's mix of angst, control, cowardice, insecurity, abuse, co-dependency and depression are really tough to read but as a family we have been through most of the above so it really distilled a lot of our lived experience into a tight space. I had to keep telling myself though, this is only a work of fiction, yet it seemed so real.

At a personal level, it made me question paths I had taken in the past and what might have been, but moreso to reinforce that what I have as a family around me today is precious and beautiful and how lucky I am. It made me yearn to bring back some freshness into my own relationship, and I'll do that for sure.

I found the submissive and masochistic traits of Marianne to be very tough to read. You would have to have zero feelings not to empathise with her character - and equally to want to give his character a huge kick in the arse for his behaviour in the face of this. I guess that is what life teaches us - to try to understand the impacts of our actions on others - though it still hard not to get dragged further into the morass of emotion in the story. Initially I thought that Daisy Edgar Jones was too pretty for the role, but I can see that this was an inspired choice in order to later shine a different sort of light on the bullying that Marianne received at school in the context of her later life. The two leads were phenomenal in my opinion and the directing and filming extraordinary - how many times the camera closed in on her face (in particular) and you could see her pain in the slightest movement.

Maybe I have a simplistic way of looking at these sort of stories but there were so many questions unanswered. It left me aching for a conclusion, but there isn't any that can really improve on how it finished. The TV drama was so much softer i that regard to the novel - the last paragraph of which is one of the most achingly beautiful that I have ever read. Brutal though.....

People are hating this for odd reasons, actors too young/old? I couldnt care less, it didnt detract at all for me. I knew precisely none of them beforehand other than Paul Mescal from the Denny advert.

Extraordinary, did I say that already?

take everything

The criticism that characters are one-dimensional is undeserved.

Even the secondary characters like Marianne's first boyfriend in college has a roundedness to him.
He's clearly the big man on campus type but with his committees and whatnot, but he complains about the bull**** of them to Marianne.

He also has a point when he says to Marianne "it worked once?" when she says it's not working for her any more. And I kind of felt half sorry for the douche. That's a character that isn't a totally one-dimensional secondary character. I could see his point when Marianne broke up with him suddenly. He was confused about what Marianne is about. And reflected the audience's confusion about her.

Marianne's mother is another good example of a secondary character that isn't unidimensional.
I really felt her "I'm doing the best I can" when Marianne asked why she doesn't do something about Alan. It sounded like a real character.

That's kind of why I like this show

gp1990

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by the male characters being non-entities or assholes. Gareth (first college bf) wasn't a bad person (he made the effort to befriend Connell and invite him out), just over privileged and boring, and there actually are loads of people like that in Trinity. The only person in the series (that I've seen so far) with truly no redeeming qualities is Marianne's brother, who is truly a nasty piece of work, but I wouldn't say he was one dimensional either. It's clearly hinted at that he feels inferior to Marianne for not being as smart and not having the opportunities she does, and I find him pretty realistic, including the way the mam panders to him and never pulls him up on the way he treats Marianne, and even blames Marianne for it. I've known a good few people act just like that, including my own brother.

Yep I wouldn't really go as far as calling anyone else a "complete raging asshole" except maybe Jamie but you always bump into people like him from all walks of life

His friends from school, while immature like many teenagers, are harmless enough behind it all. The guy who groped her is only in one scene so I wouldn't count him but in any case he's not actually in Connell's group

I don't think any character is portrayed in an unrealistic way at all

Harry Palmr

50 Shades of Sligo, amusing item about the north west being on the map!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/fifty-shades-sligo-normal-people-bbc-poses-challenge-irish-tourism

Sleepy

Quite enjoyed this and it's obviously stuck with me a bit since I'm here today posting about it...

The one thing I wasn't sure of was the portrayal of Marianne's submissive tendencies. Were they trying to portray it as some sort of negative reaction to her family relationship? As a "bad thing"? It was verging close to the territory of kink-shaming imo.

It felt like there was a lot of Marianne's time in Sweden left on the cutting room floor: did they continue with the photo-shoot? Did it go a lot further? What happened the photos? Was it abusive? Was that dynamic part of their dom/sub relationship which she had instigated? Was this just the potentially misguided experimentation of a young woman in response to an abusive family and being introduced to BDSM by a toxic ex boyfriend? Or were we to believe that she was genuinely into it?

If the latter, they rather mis-stepped when she was back in bed with Connell: her request to be dominated and hit felt more like she was testing him (as a proxy for all men?) than looking to bring a D/S dynamic into their sex life. It was rather clumsily handled. Then again, maybe that was the point? That such complex sexual relationships can be very clumsy (and potentially dangerous) when being explored without proper communication?

Would hate to see a season two. You just know they'd ruin it with more re-hashing of the "will they / won't they?". Any sequel should be a single episode / stand-alone movie in the same vein as Before Sunset / Before Midnight.

Everything Italian

Sleepy wrote: »

... It felt like there was a lot of Marianne's time in Sweden left on the cutting room floor: did they continue with the photo-shoot? Did it go a lot further? What happened the photos? Was it abusive? Was that dynamic part of their dom/sub relationship which she had instigated? Was this just the potentially misguided experimentation of a young woman in response to an abusive family and being introduced to BDSM by a toxic ex boyfriend? Or were we to believe that she was genuinely into it?

The book 'explained' that she went back and had Lukas delete/destroy all the pics.

The whole Swedish section was odd, imo. I couldn't understand the way she backed out of the 'deal' when it was something she instigated and yet revisits this domination stuff with Connell later in the story. Such confusion in my mind drags me further into trying to understand every action, which I clearly dont, and TBH its not too healthy for my head to indulge in deeper exploration of the plot .

ooter

really enjoyed it, the line when Connell said "they bang on about it with complete confidence, and then people are fools." really hit home for me, something I would really agree with and something I've experienced a lot in my own life.
the depression episode was superb.

wakka12

One thing I would criticise about the show is the lack of the humour. It manages to pull it off for the most part but I dont think I've ever watched something of this theme/coming of age type story that was so almost totally devoid of humour

It makes it hard to believe that Connell and Marianna would be able to maintain any sort of friendship outside of a romantic one, all their conversations are so heavy without exception. I liked the characters but I think it would have really added a layer of realism to their personalities and relationship if there were some lighthearted topics and conversations interspersed within the dialogue, Makes it hard to relate to them when they are no craic at all

bitofabind

It's true actually. It's not lighthearted or funny in any parts, and I found the intensity so heavy for days after watching it, I genuinely felt like I'd been hit by a truck emotionally (even still now, almost two weeks later!)

Given how strong a currency humour is in Ireland especially, and how we use it in almost all situations serious or otherwise, it would've been nice to have had some of those lighter moments too.

olestoepoke

I'm delighted to read that people were affected by this show. I thought I was having some kind of a mid life crisis after it (46 year old male married with kids) I started thinking back to my late teens and my first love. Made me very nostalgic and like others have said has stayed with me for the last couple of weeks. I have never watched a show that has left me thinking about it for days after like this. Not sure if I'm alone in this but I find Daisy Edgar Jones very attractive in a natural kind of way. I'm gonna give the book a go soon.

Purple Mountain

bitofabind wrote: »

It's true actually. It's not lighthearted or funny in any parts, and I found the intensity so heavy for days after watching it, I genuinely felt like I'd been hit by a truck emotionally (even still now, almost two weeks later!)

Snap.

Daisy78

Camilla Bumpy Sandalwood wrote: »

I think it's well done, beautifully shot, and really catches the vibe of the book. But I didn't like the book. I don't relate to it at all, I don't find the characters likeable or at all realistic. It's a great novelty to see a big production that accurately captures Ireland though. I'm glad it seems to be a good adaptation for those who love the book. I don't think I'll be able to stick with it. And I keep waiting for your man to say Ballyhaunis.

Totally agree with this. When I read the book I found the storyline tedious and the characters thoroughly unlikable. The back and forth between them both was just tiresome, drama for the sake of creating drama. And I really wasn’t convinced by Marianne’s supposed dark side. However I’m four episodes in with the tv series and im far more impressed with it than the book, is that sacrilege to say?! It seems to work better as a screenplay than as a book, maybe it’s the warmth and chemistry the two main actors bring to the roles but i find it far more engrossing than the book.

MoonUnit75

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm just not seeing it, to be honest. The supporting characters in any series are a bit one-dimensional by definition - we're not supposed to be invested in them like we are with the leads.

Not sure what you mean by the male characters being non-entities or assholes. Gareth (first college bf) wasn't a bad person (he made the effort to befriend Connell and invite him out), just over privileged and boring, and there actually are loads of people like that in Trinity. The only person in the series (that I've seen so far) with truly no redeeming qualities is Marianne's brother, who is truly a nasty piece of work, but I wouldn't say he was one dimensional either. It's clearly hinted at that he feels inferior to Marianne for not being as smart and not having the opportunities she does, and I find him pretty realistic, including the way the mam panders to him and never pulls him up on the way he treats Marianne, and even blames Marianne for it. I've known a good few people act just like that, including my own brother.

There obviously isn't a correct opinion but I find it really surprising that you don't identify with any of the characters or recognise people you know in them. I'm constantly feeling like they all remind me of someone I know or have known, far more than anything I've ever seen in my entire life. It's so realistic it's almost chilling, and I agree with many people on here that it's brought up loads of memories and feelings from the past. Maybe this depends on your life experiences, but I'd say a lot of people who grew up in Ireland and went to college in Dublin can identify with a lot of the scenarios and characters.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick with the Marianne thing if all you get from it that she was an ugly duckling in school and is suddenly queen bee. I haven't got all the way to the end yet, but it's clear she is still quite broken in college. Nothing has magically changed for her - she's just found people she gets on with now and who like her for who she is, nothing more than that. She still has demons, she's still struggling, she still has a terrible relationship with her family. And she wasn't an ugly duckling in the first place - as Connell notes, the guys who are slagging her are doing it because they know they haven't a chance with her. She was always very attractive and well dressed. She started wearing more make-up in Trinity and edgier clothes but that's about it. It's definitely not an 'ugly duckling turns into a swan' kind of story at all and I'd say you're missing the point if that's what you get from it.

It's more that it felt like the characters were just place-holders for a string of scenarios straight from a magazine problem page. Didn't find them convincing or engaging or worth investing in. All the complaints from more conservative people were that it was like soft porn but to me it was like angst porn with nothing much to say about the crap it throws at people. It seems more like an emo soap opera, it just goes on and on with stuff that happens to people or highly contrived situations. I just found it a bit manipulative. Just my opinion, all subjective.

When it comes to directing, Lenny Abrahamson is one of the best in the business. To be fair to Sally Rooney, these characters are well written and defined. Connall is interesting. He's a nice guy at heart, but is so committed to blending in and living what is portrayed as a 'normal life' out of fear, that he deprives himself of his true self.

Marianne is almost the human embodiment of an alternative calling for Connall. A life he is excited by, but terrified to embrace

youcancallmeal

Just finished it. Really refreshing to have a story that isn't all about over the top drama. Great sound track, acting, cinematography etc. There were a few moments that I found hard to accept as realistic such as the 2nd breakup and the one dimensional brother Alan following in his fathers footsteps. I can see a bright future for Paul Mescal