Severed lawnmower electrical cable.

gebbel

Accidentally ran over it cutting the grass. I’m asking if a safe repair is possible and if so how could it be done. Skill level is good when wiring 3 pin plugs. Many thanks.

Jayzee.

gebbel wrote: »

Accidentally ran over it cutting the grass. I’m asking if a safe repair is possible and if so how could it be done. Skill level is good when wiring 3 pin plugs. Many thanks.

I dont know of anything suitable for that type of duty really

Is it near the plug

Bruthal

Replacing the entire cable would be the best plan unless it is cut very close to one end.

TheBoyConor

You can't patch or repair the cable. Joining it would be deadly dangerous as it'll never be fully waterproof. You have two options.
1) cut back the cable beyond the damaged section, and reconnect it to the terminals inside the mower. You'll lose a bit of cable length but depending on how long you need it to be you might be OK.
2) replace the cable completely with a new one. This has the option of potentially lengthening the cable some bit if you need it.

SCOL

I fixed one up for a neighbor, I joined it up connectors, cable tied the two lengths together so if it the cable was pulled
there would be no pressure on the connector insulating tape no problem and that was a few years ago works perfect.

TheBoyConor

SCOL wrote: »

I fixed one up for a neighbor, I joined it up connectors, cable tied the two lengths together so if it the cable was pulled
there would be no pressure on the connector insulating tape no problem and that was a few years ago works perfect.

That was not wise. No guarantee water can't get into it. if it was damp and the operator stood on it or picked it up near the patched section then they could easily be shocked or electrocuted. It is only through good luck that they are getting away with it. yeah, all well and good and "no problem" until something happens and then there is a problem.

Of course it will work. there is no question about it working. The question is, is it safe? The answer is no, absolutely not.

It was a very unwise and foolish repair to do, especially for someone else's mower.
If they get electrocuted the first question will be "who made that dangerous repair to the cable?". Do you want to have that knock on the front door? You have just left yourself wide open here.

You might look like an eejit, but I think the best thing to do here is to go to that neighbour and tell them that you've been thinking about that cable repair and that in hindsight it is dangerous for them to use and ask them to not use it again until it is fixed properly. Even offer to have it repaired properly for them.

You are at a massive risk of a claim here, it is for your own good.

Bruthal

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That was not wise. No guarantee water can't get into it. if it was damp and the operator stood on it or picked it up near the patched section then they could easily be shocked or electrocuted. It is only through good luck that they are getting away with it. yeah, all well and good and "no problem" until something happens and then there is a problem.

Of course it will work. there is no question about it working. The question is, is it safe? The answer is no, absolutely not.

It was a very unwise and foolish repair to do, especially for someone else's mower.
If they get electrocuted the first question will be "who made that dangerous repair to the cable?". Do you want to have that knock on the front door? You have just left yourself wide open here.

You might look like an eejit, but I think the best thing to do here is to go to that neighbour and tell them that you've been thinking about that cable repair and that in hindsight it is dangerous for them to use and ask them to not use it again until it is fixed properly. Even offer to have it repaired properly for them.

You are at a massive risk of a claim here, it is for your own good.

Massive risk is a bit extreme, the chance of electrocution is remote.

Still a cowboy fix though.

Risteard81

SCOL wrote: »

I fixed one up for a neighbor, I joined it up connectors, cable tied the two lengths together so if it the cable was pulled
there would be no pressure on the connector insulating tape no problem and that was a few years ago works perfect.

Stupid. Absolutely stupid. And deadly.

runawaybishop

TheBoyConor wrote: »

You can't patch or repair the cable. Joining it would be deadly dangerous as it'll never be fully waterproof. You have two options.
1) cut back the cable beyond the damaged section, and reconnect it to the terminals inside the mower. You'll lose a bit of cable length but depending on how long you need it to be you might be OK.
2) replace the cable completely with a new one. This has the option of potentially lengthening the cable some bit if you need it.

HuH? Of course you can waterproof it. Ip68 connectors are like 5 euro.

TheBoyConor

Those are for static electrical installations. Flexes should never be jointed unless there is a very compelling reason for doing so. Because you are too tight to spend €20 on a length of flex is not a good enough reason.

Is an IP68 joint going to be waterproof after being stood on, kicked around, pulled, dragged, and rolled over for a season or two?

It is still a bad idea to join a cable like this. It will always be a weak spot and there will always be the risk of the joint deteriorating and being a shock and electrocution risk.

For the sake of saving €20 or €30 to replace the cable completely, joining it is a silly risk to take.

It is staggering how much people underestimate the dangers of electricity and how much they disregard their own lives.

Cut back the cable and reconnect, or completely replace the cable. Anything less is taking an unnecessary and totally avoidable risk with your or someone else's life.

Bruthal

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It is staggering how much people underestimate the dangers of electricity and how much they disregard their own lives.

They must totally disregard their own lives every time they get into a car, as im confident hundreds of times more die that way than by electrocution in the home in Ireland.

blackbox

One of these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Knightsbridge-Socket-Cable-Connector-3-Pole/dp/B076QH9VF4/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?keywords=cable+connectors+240v&qid=1585229707&sprefix=cable+conn&sr=8-12

TheBoyConor

Talking about sure people get killed in car accidents is just whataboutery.

That plug and socket would be intended to be mounted in a relatively dry location and be fairly static while in use. It is not intended to be pulled around over and back and be kicked around a garden while mowing. And the break in the cable is near the mower, so that is what will happen. Do you think it'll be waterproof after a season or two of being kicked around the grass like that?

regardless of waterproofing, a joint in any cable or flex is a risk. A totally unnecessary and easily and cheaply avoidable risk in this instance.

That risk is easily eliminated by not jointing the cable and just replacing it or cutting back beyond the damaged part.

outdoor orange flex is cheap. Hardly more than €2.50 - €3 per meter. It is a false economy to be miserly with your safety.

Lads, i don't know why it is so difficult to get this through to ye. Joining it really is a silly move.

Deagol

gebbel wrote: »

Accidentally ran over it cutting the grass. I’m asking if a safe repair is possible and if so how could it be done. Skill level is good when wiring 3 pin plugs. Many thanks.

I did the same with a hedge clippers; joined it back up by twisting wires together and soldering them, then heat shrinking each individual wire and then double heat shrinking the whole outer section. Bit of work but guaranteed as safe as before the cut

But, to echo what the others have said - best fix is to join remaining good cable directly to the mower or replace the whole cable if that would make it too short.

Bruthal

TheBoyConor wrote: »

talking about sure people get killed in car accidents is just whataboutery.

If you are going to tell us how staggering it is how much people underestimate the dangers of electricity, it seems fair game to compare it to other very common risks that people take.

TheBoyConor

Deagol wrote: »

I did the same with a hedge clippers; joined it back up by twisting wires together and soldering them, then heat shrinking each individual wire and then double heat shrinking the whole outer section. Bit of work but guaranteed as safe as before the cut

But, to echo what the others have said - best fix is to join remaining good cable directly to the mower or replace the whole cable if that would make it too short.

No it damn well isn't. No way.

TheChizler

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That plug and socket would be intended to be mounted in a relatively dry location and be fairly static while in use.

https://www.mlaccessories.co.uk/product/2075765/ip68-16a-plug-and-socket-cable-connector-3pole

Suitable for outdoor and underwater fixtures.

It's ok to admit when you're just making things up. No judgement.

Bruthal

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No it damn well isn't. No way.

Im guessing the actual switch handle used to start the lawnmower, and hand must be kept on it, is waterproof as well?

We are all doomed:pac:

TheBoyConor

Bruthal wrote: »

If you are going to tell us how staggering it is how much people underestimate the dangers of electricity, it seems fair game to compare it to other very common risks that people take.

There are hazards and risks everywhere. Some are not easy or reasonably practical to avoid, like having stairs in your house, or driving a car, or walking the road.
Others are totally and easily avoidable , like replacing a damaged flex rather than doing cowboy botch job repairs with insulating tape and cable ties for the sake of saving a few euros. Therein lies the difference - some are easily eliminated, others are not.

Op is going to have to go to an electrical suppliers anyway to get a joiner - why not just buy a length of flex instead. it is small money and just as easy to do the repair and then you can be sure that it is as safe as you could possibly make it.

I can't believe people are advocating taking the more dangerous option. It is madness.

TheBoyConor

Bruthal wrote: »

Im guessing the actual switch handle used to start the lawnmower, and hand must be kept on it, is waterproof as well?

We are all doomed:pac:

The handle doesn't spend all its time being dragged around on the damp and potentially wet grass.

Cordell

Cut it very short close to the mower and use an extension. When you mow it again, just replace the extension.

Podge201

Put a plug on the cable end of the mower and use an extension lead.

TheBoyConor

TheChizler wrote: »

https://www.mlaccessories.co.uk/product/2075765/ip68-16a-plug-and-socket-cable-connector-3pole



It's ok to admit when you're just making things up. No judgement.

That's grand, I didn't read the detail, but my point stands. is it going to be waterproof after 2 seasons being dragged around, kicked, rolled over etc? Would you be willing to let your life depend on it holding up?

My overall point is repairing the break is a risky move. It is just as easy to completely replace or shorten back the flex - so why not do it that way and be safe.

In fact, if money is an issue, why not just cut back the cable and reconnect to the mower - that way you don't have to buy anything at all and keep your €5 in your pocket and the repair should be as safe as can be. Connecting to the terminals inside the mower shouldn't be any more difficult than wiring a plug.

TheBoyConor

People seem to be insistent on taking the more dangerous option. Good luck to ye lads.

Del2005

Bruthal wrote: »

If you are going to tell us how staggering it is how much people underestimate the dangers of electricity, it seems fair game to compare it to other very common risks that people take.

A lot of people die getting out of bed. Should we stop people going to bed? The majority of people know that cars are dangerous but just like a soldier in a battle they know someone is going to die its just that it's not going to be them.

The difference with electricity, and water to an extent, is that people don't realise how dangerous it is and do silly things. Would you drive your car with the break lines cable tied together over a bit of a straw or 1 nut/bolt on each wheel?

Bruthal

TheBoyConor wrote: »

There are hazards and risks everywhere. Some are not easy or reasonably practical to avoid, like having stairs in your house, or driving a car, or walking the road.
Others are totally and easily avoidable , like replacing a damaged flex rather than doing cowboy botch job repairs with insulating tape and cable ties for the sake of saving a few euros. Therein lies the difference - some are easily eliminated, others are not.

Op is going to have to go to an electrical suppliers anyway to get a joiner - why not just buy a length of flex instead. it is small money and just as easy to do the repair and then you can be sure that it is as safe as you could possibly make it.

People take risks yes. But some perspective is needed if you are going to say people underestimate the dangers of electricity, as if its certain death if someone joins the cable.

I can't believe people are advocating taking the more dangerous option. It is madness.

I myself have stated replace the cable.,

Bruthal

Del2005 wrote: »

A lot of people die getting out of bed. Should we stop people going to bed? The majority of people know that cars are dangerous but just like a soldier in a battle they know someone is going to die its just that it's not going to be them.

The difference with electricity, and water to an extent, is that people don't realise how dangerous it is and do silly things. Would you drive your car with the break lines cable tied together over a bit of a straw or 1 nut/bolt on each wheel?

Which would you prefer if you had to use one, a car with 1 nut on each wheel, or a lawnmower with a cut cable connected together?

The difference is for the 2 years I have stats for, 2017 and 2018, domestic deaths from electrocution are 0
For cars its about 300 total.

It is not to say dont worry about electricity because cars are more dangerous, it is to give perspective.

listermint

This is standard cable connection on lawnmowers including the likes of Flymo from new.


https://www.screwfix.com/p/masterplug-orange-connector-2-pin/46232


Nothing wrong with joining cables its done from factory. Used to sell these by the boatload in my younger days in hardware store

TheBoyConor

Bruthal, I get you man. Perspective is fine and all. I get it.

My point is, why would you take the risk of using a jointed flex, when you can completely avoid that risk. Shortening the cable beyond the damaged section involved no cost and no greater effort or time than joining - so why not just do it rather than gambling with a botch job.

runawaybishop

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Those are for static electrical installations. Flexes should never be jointed unless there is a very compelling reason for doing so.

This is not correct, there are plenty of cheap rugged ip68 connections for flex.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Bruthal, I get you man. Perspective is fine and all. I get it.

My point is, why would you take the risk of using a jointed flex, when you can completely avoid that risk. Shortening the cable beyond the damaged section involved no cost and no greater effort or time than joining - so why not just do it rather than gambling with a botch job.

Its not that risky, there is more chance you will run over the cable with the mower :pac:

I would just replace the cable also, but thats not what the op asked.

listermint

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Bruthal, I get you man. Perspective is fine and all. I get it.

My point is, why would you take the risk of using a jointed flex, when you can completely avoid that risk. Shortening the cable beyond the damaged section involved no cost and no greater effort or time than joining - so why not just do it rather than gambling with a botch job.

Botch Job? 2 Pin connectors are used on top brand electrical mowers for decades and now.


Botch job, pffffffttt

Bruthal

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Bruthal, I get you man. Perspective is fine and all. I get it.

My point is, why would you take the risk of using a jointed flex, when you can completely avoid that risk. Shortening the cable beyond the damaged section involved no cost and no greater effort or time than joining - so why not just do it rather than gambling with a botch job.

Yes, As I said, I would replace the cable myself.

iamtony

TheBoyConor wrote: »

People seem to be insistent on taking the more dangerous option. Good luck to ye lads.

You can't just replace the whole cable as easy as your trying to make out. The connection inside the lawnmower will probably be sealed in an epoxy type setup plus you'd have to install a regular plug on the other end which wouldn't be as safe as the moulded one supplied with the machine which is kinda waterproof.
Cable repair is easy and can be done correctly with a quick look on youtube.

NewClareman

Electrical safety is often not given sufficient attention. I’ve been wary since my sister in law’s brother was electrocuted when I was a teenager. He did nothing wrong, it was a faulty installation.

Having said this, a bit of common sense goes a long way. The best way to ensure electrical safety with garden tools is to have a RCD either fixed or portable. Most modern houses have RCDs in the consumer unit that protects the socket. I also use a portable RCD with my extension lead. This ensures protection, when using it away from home.

blackbox wrote: »

One of these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Knightsbridge-Socket-Cable-Connector-3-Pole/dp/B076QH9VF4/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?keywords=cable+connectors+240v&qid=1585229707&sprefix=cable+conn&sr=8-12

Unless you immerse it water greater than 1.5m deep, or in water less than 1.5m deep for more than half an hour, you’ll be grand from a water/rain perspective. Mechanically it should be no less safe than the connector within the lawnmower.

Deagol wrote: »

I did the same with a hedge clippers; joined it back up by twisting wires together and soldering them, then heat shrinking each individual wire and then double heat shrinking the whole outer section. Bit of work but guaranteed as safe as before the cut

Been there, done that.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No it damn well isn't. No way.

The soldered wires provide mechanical strength and the heat shrink electrical safety. What’s your concern?

TheBoyConor

I have never seen epoxy potted terminal connections inside an electrical appliance or tool. And I have replaced a fair few flexes in my time. That would not be a great design as it would preclude replacement of a damaged flex.

Yes you would have to install a regular plug on the other end. but that is typically in a socket and not down at ground level being pulled around the grass behind you.

Of course, and RCD is very advisable. But having an RCD is not to be relied upon and used as a justification for taking avoidable risks with poor repairs. You are then placing all your faith in the RCD functioning correctly - a dangerous attitude to take.

Again my point stands. That might be a waterproof connector - but will it be waterproof after being pulled, dragged and kicked around the place, getting occasionally pulled apart and getting dust and dirt inside, for a few months,? Would you be willing to gamble on it being waterproof after 6 months of that? I wouldn't.

The soldered wires provide mechanical strength and the heat shrink electrical safety. What’s your concern?

My concern is that a) the soldered wires are more rigid and are more brittle and likley to snap after extended use than the original flex. and b) the insulation of the flex is compromised. Heat shrinking while it may work ok. is never going to to be waterproof and durable to the same extent of the original flex insulation. It is also probably much thinner. And again, is it going to be as durable after being pulled and kicked around a garden for a few months. I doubt it.
So no, it is not "guaranteed to be just as safe as the original" is it?

My point again is it is so easy to replace the flex. It is no more difficult to replace it than patch it. And much safer. In fact, if shortening the flex slightly is not going to cause a problem length wise, then shortening and reconnecting is 100% free and even easier to do as there is less wires to be stripped and prepared. And you also get to keep the moulded plug n the end.

Why not take the safest option if it is easy and free? Why subsitute to a more dangerous alternative?

joeysoap

If the trip switch kicked in when the lead was cut would it not kick in again if anything went wrong ie the join coming apart and the socket side coming in contact with wet grass. I agree there is a serious danger if this happens.

What if the op parcel wrapped the joiner box? ( I know that it would be easier, safer and simpler to replace the whole cable)

TheBoyConor

I ask this now for ye to consider..

If you brought that mower to a reputable and competent service and repair shop for electric mowers, and asked them to repair it, what do you think they would do?

Would they replace the flex completely or at least shorten the cable and reconnect if it was acceptable to the owner, provided that the rest of the cable was inspected and found to be in good condition?

Or would they joint up the cable with some fittings from amazon, or solder and sleeve it or wrap it all up in a big mat of tape and cable ties?

I can tell you they would be doing the former. The reason? They don't want to run the risk of the owner being shocked or killed and then ending up in court being faced with defending a negligence case because they knowingly did a botch repair job that was less safe than the very reasonably practicable alternative repair involving replacing or cutting back the cable.

TheBoyConor

If the trip switch kicked in when the lead was cut would it not kick in again if anything went wrong ie the join coming apart and the socket side coming in contact with wet grass. I agree there is a serious danger if this happens.

Would you be willing to place your life on that trip switch working perfectly and instantly?
Rrelying on RCDs as a subsitute for good practice around insulation, plugs and flexes is a very dangerous attitude to take.

What if the op parcel wrapped the joiner box? ( I know that it would be easier, safer and simpler to replace the whole cable)

I actually cannot believe I read that. Are you trying to take the piss now or something?

To cut back the damaged section would be actually far easier and quicker. Only one end of the flex to prepare, fix in one set of terminals, put the cover back on. No tape or messing around. And you don't have to go any buy a junction box or a roll of tape even.
And guess what, it is far safer and much more likely to last. And you are not potentially letting you life hang on the reliability of an RCD that probably wasn't inspected or tested since the day it was installed.

kenmm

Wow - One person asks one simple question and 3 pages of in-fighting.. get a grip you've all made your points.. No one cares about however many years of past battles you guys have had.

(Reminder to myself never to ask advice on this forum..)

OP - it look only a couple of feet from the lawnmower - can you access where the terminal connects as I looks the safest option. I would normally be tempted to patch it in years gone buy, but it really would be a very temporary solution until you can get more cable or something more permanent.

sweetie

I got a shock from one of these a couple years ago. Bloody frightening and hurt my back with the jump I took to get away from it. Don't take any chances

TheBoyConor

And another thing I will say, if the OP is concerned that they do not have the skills to take off the cover on the mower and reconnect terminals, then they are not competent to do it and they have no business meddling with electrics of any sort. Leave it to some competent person to do the repair.

The very fact that they are contemplating joining up the flex would to me suggest that they are not competent.

runawaybishop

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I can tell you they would be doing the former. The reason?

The reason? Whichever they can bill more for :pac:

listermint

kenmm wrote: »

Wow - One person asks one simple question and 3 pages of in-fighting.. get a grip you've all made your points.. No one cares about however many years of past battles you guys have had.

(Reminder to myself never to ask advice on this forum..)

OP - it look only a couple of feet from the lawnmower - can you access where the terminal connects as I looks the safest option. I would normally be tempted to patch it in years gone buy, but it really would be a very temporary solution until you can get more cable or something more permanent.

These are permanent solution and come with new Flymo mowers. I dont understand why people are talking as if they are a botch job.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/masterplug-orange-connector-2-pin/46232

ALL garden equipment should be plugged into an RCD too.

kenmm

listermint wrote: »

These are permanent solution and come with new Flymo mowers. I dont understand why people are talking as if they are a botch job.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/masterplug-orange-connector-2-pin/46232

ALL garden equipment should be plugged into an RCD too.

Thats what I meant by 'more permanent'. Hard to tell, but it looked close enough to the lawnmower anyway. The person may have grass than needs cutting today and therefore saves a trip to the shop!

TheBoyConor

runawaybishop wrote: »

The reason? Whichever they can bill more for :pac:

I don't think so. Cutting back the cable actually should be cheaper because no new parts would be needed.

And I can tell you, it would be a lot cheaper than being nailed for many tens of thousands in compensation and increased insurance premia.

Podge201

Would swa be a good strong cable for the mower?

Podge201

Podge201 wrote: »

Would swa be a good strong cable for the mower?

Yea 10sq if you can.

kenmm

kenmm wrote: »

(Reminder to myself never to ask advice on this forum..)

If you have to ask you need a REC

TheBoyConor

SWA cable would be totally inappropriate for this.
That is armoured cable. It would be far to stiff and inflexible.

What you need here is flex, not cable. there is a difference.

BrownFinger wrote: »

If you have to ask you need a REC

That's it like. If you have to ask a question about basic electrics, that is a sign that you haven't a clue and you have no business meddling and fiddling with it.

Podge201

BrownFinger wrote: »

Yea 10sq if you can.

Would give 100 metre cable length. Good call.

TheChizler

Podge201 wrote: »

Would give 100 metre cable length. Good call.

If you can't source SWA then regular 10sq in a length of 5" duct will do in a pinch.