Places commutable to Dublin where one off houses still get planning

Eric Cartman

does anyone know of any areas near Dublin where putting a 2 storey house on an acre is still in general accepted by the planning board ?

Just need something near a motorway really, preferably not through a toll to the M50 .

and before anyone starts, I'm not expecting a bus service and this isn't a thread to discuss whether one off housing is you're thing or not... protip, if you're going to use the words 'eyesore' or 'mcmansion' in your post, it doesn't belong here.

zerosugarbuzz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

does anyone know of any areas near Dublin where putting a 2 storey house on an acre is still in general accepted by the planning board ?

Just need something near a motorway really, preferably not through a toll to the M50 .

and before anyone starts, I'm not expecting a bus service and this isn't a thread to discuss whether one off housing is you're thing or not... protip, if you're going to use the words 'eyesore' or 'mcmansion' in your post, it doesn't belong here.

I’d love that too.

beauf

World you know from looking at sites with planning permission?

listermint

Mad idea .

I know...

But bear with me...



Buy something that's built......

Eric Cartman

listermint wrote: »

Mad idea .

I know...

But bear with me...



Buy something that's built......

too much money, buying a site and building what I need now ( a 4 bay garage with an office and 1 bed apartment over it ) and adding a large house beside it as time goes on is much more affordable and practical.

Gumbo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

too much money, buying a site and building what I need now ( a 4 bay garage with an office and 1 bed apartment over it ) and adding a large house beside it as time goes on is much more affordable and practical.

The problem, is you won’t get planning to build the garage now and a house later.
Any ‘apartment’ that’s over a garage, will be ancillary to the main dwelling, but if the main dwelling is not built then it’s not ancillary.
Another issue may be the mortgage, the garage is not habitable so no funds released.

You won’t get building regulation or planning compliance in my opinion.

Baybay

Perhaps an option might be to try to find somewhere derelict & apply for planning permission to renovate & extend into something that suits you.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/27-merrymeeting-rathnew-wicklow/4384283

Its basically a site

Bit of a pipe dream op, but with a lot of compromises something like this might work, Rathnew is very commutable to Dublin.

https://www.daft.ie/meath/bungalows-for-sale/stamullen/balloy-stamullen-meath-2259215/#img=1

Again not exactly what you want but lots of outbuilding and separate residents being developed on it, Stamullen very commutable to Dublin.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/donacarney-great-co-meath-a92-aw29/4273560

They are all basically sites.

No local athourity is going to let you build a garage with an apartment over it and then build a house beside it in time.

listermint

Eric Cartman wrote: »

too much money, buying a site and building what I need now ( a 4 bay garage with an office and 1 bed apartment over it ) and adding a large house beside it as time goes on is much more affordable and practical.

Sorry but now i know your pulling everyone's leg.


:rolleyes:

ELM327

I'd suggest Meath but thanks to our ridiculous one off planning laws (you cant get planning without being "local needs") you won't get it

Cuddlesworth

Eric Cartman wrote: »

too much money, buying a site and building what I need now ( a 4 bay garage with an office and 1 bed apartment over it ) and adding a large house beside it as time goes on is much more affordable and practical.

Not sure viable sites are much cheaper then just purchasing a finished house. In a lot of cases, it seems the other way around.

Planning wise, you would need to apply for a house with 4 bed garage + apartment, build that and then keep renewing the planning for the rest.

Not sure where you would get planning for a 4 bay garage with a apartment coupled with what would be a fairly large site with a expected 2 two story buildings.

Yellow_Fern

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Not sure viable sites are much cheaper then just purchasing a finished house. In a lot of cases, it seems the other way around.

Planning wise, you would need to apply for a house with 4 bed garage + apartment, build that and then keep renewing the planning for the rest.

Not sure where you would get planning for a 4 bay garage with a apartment coupled with what would be a fairly large site with a expected 2 two story buildings.

I guess that is true partly because the scale of building estates and also the fact that one off tend to be much better built and designed.

awec

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I guess that is true partly because the scale of building estates and also the fact that one off tend to be much better built and designed.

Wouldn't be so sure about that.

Places like Tipparey still have one-off housing, you could look somewhere within strikeing distance of the M7

Hoboo

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd suggest Meath but thanks to our ridiculous one off planning laws (you cant get planning without being "local needs") you won't get it

Thank God for that law. I know I won't have some scumbag landing a few fields up.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Hoboo wrote: »

Thank God for that law. I know I won't have some scumbag landing a few fields up.

Mind elaborating on that? No scumbags in Meath? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Gumbo

Hoboo wrote: »

Thank God for that law. I know I won't have some scumbag landing a few fields up.

Mod Note

We have standards in this forum.
Please read the forum charter before posting again in this or any other thread in A&P.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

too much money, buying a site and building what I need now ( a 4 bay garage with an office and 1 bed apartment over it ) and adding a large house beside it as time goes on is much more affordable and practical.

I think if you were serious about this you'd already have found out it's a non runner.

Idbatterim

cartman I can definetly see why you would want somewhere private and secure to lock up the S class you intend on buying... He isnt trolling, he is into his motors... and imagine landing out hundreds of thousands and having an entire social housing block a stones throw, like in dundrum!

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

......... He isnt trolling, he is into his motors...........

Ah yeah, no doubt but he's not actually serious about this. He's in the early stages of thinking out loud and came to boards to help pick a location instead of researching/realising that you can't build the garage before building the house.

Also, in times of recession (and we're in one now) it's always cheaper to buy rather than to build. Especially when you are on about building two x 2 storey structures.

Eric Cartman

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Not sure viable sites are much cheaper then just purchasing a finished house. In a lot of cases, it seems the other way around.

Planning wise, you would need to apply for a house with 4 bed garage + apartment, build that and then keep renewing the planning for the rest.

Not sure where you would get planning for a 4 bay garage with a apartment coupled with what would be a fairly large site with a expected 2 two story buildings.

that would be the idea, I can mortgage a site and afford to build a 2 storey apartment over garage now , and in 10 years Time be in a position to be a decent way towards the main house. I don't need a 4 bedroom house right now, I do need a multi bay garage and workshop.

Gumbo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that would be the idea, I can mortgage a site and afford to build a 2 storey apartment over garage now , and in 10 years Time be in a position to be a decent way towards the main house. I don't need a 4 bedroom house right now, I do need a multi bay garage and workshop.

You won’t get planning and sign off to do this.

Gumbo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Not sure viable sites are much cheaper then just purchasing a finished house. In a lot of cases, it seems the other way around.

Planning wise, you would need to apply for a house with 4 bed garage + apartment, build that and then keep renewing the planning for the rest.

Not sure where you would get planning for a 4 bay garage with a apartment coupled with what would be a fairly large site with a expected 2 two story buildings.

You cannot renew the planning for the house of the garage has been commenced.
It has to be substantially completed or the planning expires and you need a new planning.

CalRobert

Can't imagine this working but you could keep an eye out for derelict buildings. I just tried to get permission for a modern house with the existing structure (old cottage) as an accessory dwelling and was immediately shot down.

Also, local needs has been ruled illegal and the councils are dragging their feet on updating it. You could apply, get denied for local needs, and then sue, if you're the fighting sort.

Gumbo

CalRobert wrote: »

Can't imagine this working but you could keep an eye out for derelict buildings. I just tried to get permission for a modern house with the existing structure (old cottage) as an accessory dwelling and was immediately shot down.

Also, local needs has been ruled illegal and the councils are dragging their feet on updating it. You could apply, get denied for local needs, and then sue, if you're the fighting sort.

Your understanding of local needs is incorrect.

Local needs only applies in an area where planning is strictly forbidden in the first place. They make an exception for local needs.

If you cancel local needs, it means nobody gets planning on that location.

CalRobert

Gumbo wrote: »

Your understanding of local needs is incorrect.

Local needs only applies in an area where planning is strictly forbidden in the first place. They make an exception for local needs.

If you cancel local needs, it means nobody gets planning on that location.

My understanding is based on
https://selfbuild.ie/news/revision-to-locals-only-rule-a-priority-minister/



I believe what you describe is what is happening. See Meath, for instance:

https://consult.meath.ie/en/consultation/meath-draft-county-development-plan/chapter/09-rural-development-strategy



Looks like you need 25 acres and a family history, which is a bit inconsiderate towards people who might like to become farmers and don't need 25 acres, tbh.



Some folks concerned about the above at https://www.change.org/p/meath-county-council-save-rural-housing?recruiter=333547639&utm (this is not an endorsement)

What's your budget OP?
I imagine buying an existing farmhouse and yard would be the most likely.
https://touch.daft.ie/commercial-property-for-sale/rogerstown-edenderry-co-offaly/1475483
That's what happens around me - farm sheds are repurposed into workshops.

Donald Trump

CalRobert wrote: »

Looks like you need 25 acres and a family history, which is a bit inconsiderate towards people who might like to become farmers and don't need 25 acres, tbh.

That is an oxymoron and a half



(Unless you are going building glasshouses.......and that ain't cheap)

CalRobert

Donald Trump wrote: »

That is an oxymoron and a half



(Unless you are going building glasshouses.......and that ain't cheap)

I was specifically thinking of high end niche growers, in the model of Richard Perkins, Jean-Martin Fortier, etc.

The Op would be better buying an old cottage( with roof intact, water and electricity) with land apply for planning permission for refurbishing plus garage build the garage, living space and make some small attempt at the refurbishment.

Donald Trump

CalRobert wrote: »

I was specifically thinking of high end niche growers, in the model of Richard Perkins, Jean-Martin Fortier, etc.

If you want a hobby, then have a hobby. Grand. No problem with that. But someone claiming to have suddenly developed an interest in a new hobby shouldn't be given a right to build a house in a rural area they have no connection to.

Maybe things will change if the Shinners get into power.

Eric Cartman

mariaalice wrote: »

The Op would be better buying an old cottage( with roof intact, water and electricity) with land apply for planning permission for refurbishing plus garage build the garage, living space and make some small attempt at the refurbishment.

This is more solid advice, i could get a mortgage for about 190-200k but would preffer a field for 80-90 and building the garage i could self finance in under 5 years.

As for ‘just buy something’ im sure i could buy something for 250-300k maxing myself out but that still leaves me garageless which doesnt solve my problem.

Del2005

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is more solid advice, i could get a mortgage for about 190-200k but would preffer a field for 80-90 and building the garage i could self finance in under 5 years.

As for ‘just buy something’ im sure i could buy something for 250-300k maxing myself out but that still leaves me garageless which doesnt solve my problem.

Have you costed the price of building a home, 1 bed apartment, on top of a garage full of flammable liquids and compressed gases? I can't see how you can get it built cheap as since you want to live there it has to meet building regulations which is what makes modern houses expensive, even if you can get planning permission.

Caranica

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is more solid advice, i could get a mortgage for about 190-200k but would preffer a field for 80-90 and building the garage i could self finance in under 5 years.

As for ‘just buy something’ im sure i could buy something for 250-300k maxing myself out but that still leaves me garageless which doesnt solve my problem.

You've been told already that that plan would not be planning compliant. House before the garage is how it goes

0gac3yjefb5sv7

mariaalice wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/27-merrymeeting-rathnew-wicklow/4384283

Its basically a site

Bit of a pipe dream op, but with a lot of compromises something like this might work, Rathnew is very commutable to Dublin.

200k for that crap? Jesus......it's not even much land

CalRobert

Pheonix10 wrote: »

200k for that crap? Jesus......it's not even much land

It's possible they'd take an offer well below that just to get out quickly.

TheBoyConor

Most local authorities now have a "local needs" requirement that applicants have to satisfy before they will grand permission for one off rural housing. Unless you can demonstrate that, which I doubt since you are scouting for a location, then I highly doubt you can meet the criteria.

As for the rest of your proposal, with the garage and the apartment over it and then a house after. Lol. good luck with that planning application. Not a chance.

the_syco

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Most local authorities now have a "local needs" requirement that applicants have to satisfy before they will grand permission for one off rural housing. Unless you can demonstrate that, which I doubt since you are scouting for a location, then I highly doubt you can meet the criteria.

The "local needs" requirement is at the discretion of the CC. A mate tried to buy within the distance, but was blocked, as he lived in an estate, not the rural setting in which he was trying to buy in.

8-10

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is more solid advice, i could get a mortgage for about 190-200k but would preffer a field for 80-90 and building the garage i could self finance in under 5 years.

As for ‘just buy something’ im sure i could buy something for 250-300k maxing myself out but that still leaves me garageless which doesnt solve my problem.

www.daft.ie/11921519

Take a look at something like this in that price range. Hour from the M50

It's huge, 240 sq m, includes a large garage and workshop with loads of space. You got your own cinema and discotheque too!

(you have to scroll through a load of photos before you get to the garage/workshop BTW but it's there!)

awec

8-10 wrote: »

www.daft.ie/11921519

Take a look at something like this in that price range. Hour from the M50

It's huge, 240 sq m, includes a large garage and workshop with loads of space. You got your own cinema and discotheque too!

(you have to scroll through a load of photos before you get to the garage/workshop BTW but it's there!)

Nice site, decent looking house, but good grief whoever decorated that has no taste whatsoever. :pac:

The electric blue and cream kitchen, and the wall stencils everywhere are a particular highlight.

8-10

awec wrote: »

Nice site, decent looking house, but good grief whoever decorated that has no taste whatsoever. :pac:

The electric blue and cream kitchen, and the wall stencils everywhere are a particular highlight.

Yeah I can't stand stencils on walls. Only thing worse is those horrid wooden hearts that get hung on the door or end of the stairs in real estate photos.

But in general I'd prefer not to like the decor in a house I'd be buying as it forces you to immediately change it to your style!

JustAThought

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that would be the idea, I can mortgage a site and afford to build a 2 storey apartment over garage now , and in 10 years Time be in a position to be a decent way towards the main house. I don't need a 4 bedroom house right now, I do need a multi bay garage and workshop.

Here’s your pipe dream - a multi bay garage with beautiful house and somewhere to live now. If your dream is real why not find your land with derelict building or site/ old factory whatever and apply for the detached house over 4 bay garage with worksho and kitchemette/plumbed shower room - start to build starting with the asforementioned - when you run out of money live in one of the garage bays ( insulated) and then progress as you earn. you may have to have a windturbine for energy or dig a well for water as the council won’t connect you until you are completing but sure that’ll be ok with you probably.