Why do teachers earn more than nurses?

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev

A registered staff nurse or midwife starts at €29,346 after registration. The industry standard for shift work involving nights is 30%, which teachers do not do.
So let's adjust the €29,346÷1.3 to give a salary less shift allowance.
That's €22,574. Nurses work 12-hour shifts, three days a week (correct me if I'm wrong) and work 48 weeks a year.
That's 1728 hours of work per year which works out at €13.06 per hour per hour worked

Source: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0209/1028490-nurses-pay/

Teachers start on significantly more. Newly qualified teachers start on €36,953 per anum. They don't work shifts so no need to adjust salary for this. Their compulsory work starts at 9:00 and finishes at 16:00. This is a 7 hour day. Supervision of extra-curricular activities and after-school study is not obligatory. They have a week off at Hallowe'en, two weeks at Christmas, a week in February, two weeks at Easter and 11 in summer. Thus, they only work 41 weeks per year or 1435 hours per year. This equates to an equivalent hourly rate of €25.75 per hour worked.

https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

Teachers are raking in double the hourly rate and their sleep patterns are not disturbed, they're not abused by drunks or druggies, they're not dealing with death or distressing situations.

I'm neither a teacher nor a nurse before anyone accuses me of having an agenda and I earn a package far in excess of the aforementioned salaries.

Let's give our nurses a round of applause.

Rufeo

*gets popcorn.

Salary Negotiator

I don’t see why you are comparing salaries from 2 completely unrelated fields other than to have a pop at teachers.

Why not just start a thread with “Nurses are underpaid”?

Whereisgalway

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

I don’t see why you are comparing salaries from 2 completely unrelated fields other than to have a pop at teachers.

Why not just start a thread with “Nurses are underpaid”?

Cause teachers are over paid, self entitled and tbh very whiny

All that fandango

What do newly qualified teachers make when you factor in the fact that they must sub for years before they even get a sniff of a full time permanent job?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Why do teachers earn less than professional sports players?

mickdw

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev wrote: »

A registered staff nurse or midwife starts at €29,346 after registration. The industry standard for shift work involving nights is 30%, which teachers do not do.
So let's adjust the €29,346÷1.3 to give a salary less shift allowance.
That's €22,574. Nurses work 12-hour shifts, three days a week (correct me if I'm wrong) and work 48 weeks a year.
That's 1728 hours of work per year which works out at €13.06 per hour per hour worked

Source: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0209/1028490-nurses-pay/

Teachers start on significantly more. Newly qualified teachers start on €36,953 per anum. They don't work shifts so no need to adjust salary for this. Their compulsory work starts at 9:00 and finishes at 16:00. This is a 7 hour day. Supervision of extra-curricular activities and after-school study is not obligatory. They have a week off at Hallowe'en, two weeks at Christmas, a week in February, two weeks at Easter and 11 in summer. Thus, they only work 41 weeks per year or 1435 hours per year. This equates to an equivalent hourly rate of €25.75 per hour worked.

https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

Teachers are raking in double the hourly rate and their sleep patterns are not disturbed, they're not abused by drunks or druggies, they're not dealing with death or distressing situations.

I'm neither a teacher nor a nurse before anyone accuses me of having an agenda and I earn a package far in excess of the aforementioned salaries.

Let's give our nurses a round of applause.

If we are on this topic, why are you paid significantly more than a nurse?
Do you put you health at risk dealing with deadly virus, do you deal with sixk and dying or distressing situations?

Moody_mona

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev wrote: »

I earn a package far in excess of the aforementioned salaries.

What's your hourly pay? Since we're comparing.

JustAThought

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Why do teachers earn less than professional sports players?

combat is only psychological since capital punishment banned.

Whereisgalway

All that fandango wrote: »

What do newly qualified teachers make when you factor in the fact that they must sub for years before they even get a sniff of a full time permanent job?

Teachers are the only profession that expects a fully time permanent jobs straight out of collage. Recruitment freeze in the health service the last few years

Larbre34

Teachers take responsibility for 30 odd kids for 5-7 hours a day, in loco parentis, with all the concerns of insurance and child protection and supervising a couple of SNAs on top.

I don't diminish nurses by that statement in any sense, they are an amazing profession and they should earn much more, but teachers don't deserve to earn less.

In fact, if this crisis shows us anything over the next 6 months, it'll be the value of teachers.

Whereisgalway

Larbre34 wrote: »

.
In fact, if this crisis shows us anything over the next 6 months, it'll be the value of teachers.

In what way?

And yes teachers earn far more than the Europeans norm and far more than they’re worth

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JustAThought wrote: »

combat is only psychological since capital punishment banned.

I don't believe I mentioned the army?

Larbre34

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Teachers are the only profession that expects a fully time permanent jobs straight out of collage. Recruitment freeze in the health service the last few years

Are you on a wind up? Any qualified nurse wanting a full time job in Ireland post-grad, in the last 5 years could have taken their pick of locations to work. Same goes for hospital doctors.

I can think also of 20 different professions in the private sector that expect, and indeed can expect, to walk into permanent jobs on graduation.

Salary Negotiator

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Cause teachers are over paid, self entitled and tbh very whiny

There’s more whining done about teachers than by teachers.

con___manx1

Nurses should be paid more in my opinion but most teachers do a serious amount of work outside of school.
They also have alot of stress dealing with idiotic parents that think their child's **** doest smell.they Also have overcrowded class rooms in alot of cases.

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev wrote: »

Let's give our nurses a round of applause.

With you on that.

Tom Mann Centuria

What a teacher earns does not affect me, in the same way, what I earn doesn't affect someone grafting in a shop.

Oldest trick in the book is turning workers against each other with envy.

As is regularly stated in these threads, nothing to stop people training to be a teacher, nothing to stop people organising and joining a union and seeking better terms for themselves and colleagues.

Larbre34

Whereisgalway wrote: »

In what way?

And yes teachers earn far more than the Europeans norm and far more than they’re worth

Providing a structured, varied and holistic education for all the children of the state. Parents are already having breakdowns trying to do the same for their own handful of kids after just a week.

Whereisgalway

Larbre34 wrote: »

Are you on a wind up? Any qualified nurse wanting a full time job in Ireland post-grad, in the last 5 years could have taken their pick of locations to work. Same goes for hospital doctors.
.

Any links to back this opinion up?

TheBoyConor

If you have such a chip on your shoulder over it and think it's such a gravy traiin then why don't you quit your current occupation and go train to be a primary teacher. Come back to us in 5 years time and tell us all about how much of a handy life you have of it and how you need even more holidays in order to be able to spend your massive salary.

Your whole post smacks of begrudgery and "i couldn't get into Mary I because I did a crap leaving cert so I'll just have a crack off the teachers instead"

Larbre34

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Oldest trick in the book is turning workers against each other with envy.

Absolutely. Straight out of the Trump Farage play book. Seeking to drive down standards and fair remuneration by division and suspicion.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Whereisgalway wrote: »

In what way?

And yes teachers earn far more than the Europeans norm and far more than they’re worth

You think we invest too much in the welfare of future generations...?

loyatemu

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev wrote: »

They have a week off at Hallowe'en, two weeks at Christmas, a week in February, two weeks at Easter and 11 in summer. Thus, they only work 41 weeks per year

you just failed maths.

Tom Mann Centuria

Larbre34 wrote: »

Are you on a wind up? Any qualified nurse wanting a full time job in Ireland post-grad, in the last 5 years could have taken their pick of locations to work. Same goes for hospital doctors.

Apart from frequent recruitment bans for nurses. The most recent was only lifted last month.

Whereisgalway

Larbre34 wrote: »

.

In fact, if this crisis shows us anything over the next 6 months, it'll be the value of teachers.

If anything it’ll be the opposite, lot of parents working from home and teaching their kids at the same time

yabadabado

All that fandango wrote: »

What do newly qualified teachers make when you factor in the fact that they must sub for years before they even get a sniff of a full time permanent job?

Must sub for years ?

Not always the case and if you sub in the same school for 2 years continuously there will be a CID applied for on your behalf.

All that fandango

Whereisgalway wrote:

Teachers are the only profession that expects a fully time permanent jobs straight out of collage. Recruitment freeze in the health service the last few years

Yeah, thats what the government would like you to think. The reality is very different though.

joe40

Nurses should earn more, definitely.
But that isn't what your question is about it is just a bit of teacher bashing.
Maybe we should become like our nearest neighbour where the have to offer grants of up to 15,000 to 20,000 pounds to encourage graduates to train as teachers because the job is so unattractive.
This is a difficult time for everyone, why start Petty rows online.
Ultimately people make career choices, with the points required for nursing nowadays teaching would also have been an option for every student nurse.

TheBoyConor

At the end of the day, like all public sector professions, it comes down to one profession being paid more or less than another because of the fortunes of the economy and the unions level of negotiating skill and motivation or lack if it at the time the pay agreements were made.

JustAThought

Larbre34 wrote: »

Providing a structured, varied and holistic education for all the children of the state. Parents are already having breakdowns trying to do the same for their own handful of kids after just a week.

Moreso providing paid but unqualified in most cases special needs babysitting service for highly challenging mentally challenged and developmentally delayed children who are not capable of normal learning or keeping up in any with their 28+ classmates while their parents blithely shrug off their responsibilities and go to their 9-5 jobs, leaving the teachers in a state of constNt stress about their childrens behaviour and inabilities in the class with doors bolted and windows locked shut to keep them from bolting off down the road.

Many special needs and behaviourly challenged children children in schools today simply should not be there and are just being facilitated at cost to the rest of their classes learning while their parents don’t pay for the special needs services/childminding their children clearly need.

Teachers are no longer teaching - they are babysitting special needs children incapable of learning or behaving in a classroom setting at huge cost to the learning of those who can, and should be taught.

yabadabado

loyatemu wrote: »

you just failed maths.

Secondary teachers work 34 weeks per year.Its slightly less but I've rounded up.

Larbre34

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Any links to back this opinion up?

**** off. Why the hell have the HSE had to go to jobs fairs across Asia and Australia to recruit and spend money on campaigns to "come home" and work. Try Google you churlish *****.

I've a sister in law and a handful of friends and cousins in nursing, they are all working exactly where they want to in Ireland, they are having their post grads paid for, they are getting into specialist nursing jobs (cardiac, cancer) far earlier in their careers than would be expected years ago. They are resiging to work in the Middle East and come back with the deposits for houses and then getting permanent jobs back in Ireland as soon as they choose to come back.

Ask me **** for links.

uck51js9zml2yt

Rufeo wrote: »

*gets popcorn.

Will you share?

sydthebeat

Larbre34 wrote: »

Teachers take responsibility for 30 odd kids for 5-7 hours a day, in loco parentis, with all the concerns of insurance and child protection and supervising a couple of SNAs on top.

I don't diminish nurses by that statement in any sense, they are an amazing profession and they should earn much more, but teachers don't deserve to earn less.

In fact, if this crisis shows us anything over the next 6 months, it'll be the value of teachers.

Hang on, why are teachers "supervising" SNAs?

They are a separate profession altogether, and teachers are not qualified SNAs

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Whereisgalway wrote: »

If anything it’ll be the opposite, lot of parents working from home and teaching their kids at the same time

Your inability or unwilingess to resport to answers leads me to believe you;re a troll, but I'll answer seriously:

In some cases, yes - but only if the family can survive on one salary and/or the parent in question has enough knowledge and time to home school. But not a chance of it happening post primary.

Larbre34

"JustAThought wrote: »

Many children in schools today simply should not be there and are just being facilitated at cost to
the rest of their classes learning while their patents don’t pay for the special needs services/childminding their children clearly need.

Well thats mainly thanks to that *****hawk Kathy Sinnott and the damage she inflicted on both the kids with special needs and the mainstream pupils by forcing them to be lumped in together. Her do-gooder ways have had lasting impacts.

Tom Mann Centuria

Let's be honest, in another 6 months or whatever, nurses will go back to being accused of being overpaid, like the rest of the public service, and back to being the enemy.

Probably a third of the comments in the threads around our industrial action over a year ago will always remind me of that.

Whereisgalway

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Your inability or unwilingess to resport to answers leads me to believe you;re a troll, but I'll answer seriously:

In some cases, yes - but only if the family can survive on one salary and/or the parent in question has enough knowledge and time to home school. But not a chance of it happening post primary.

I did my regular work from home along side juggling the 3 kids, wasn’t easy and have had hiccups but with planning & preparation it’s manageable

Turbohymac

Is this just another teacher bashing thread.. yes some nurses should probably get double the amount of pay for the amount of effort they put into their chosen career.. but there are also some that shouldn't be allowed in the job lack of interest and taking as much time off as possible etc..like any other profession..
HOWEVER.. can anyone with more direct knowledge of the healthcare system enlightened me on where all the hundreds of thousands that were regularly on trollies at a and e departments have suddenly disappeared to..were these large daily numbers a myth or have the HSE deported everyone found on trollies overnight..???

Larbre34

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hang on, why are teachers "supervising" SNAs?

They are a separate profession altogether, and teachers are not qualified SNAs

Profession?

My mother in law retired from the bank and went as an SNA for something to put in her mornings.

I know there are efforts by Unions and the like to "professionalise" SNA jobs by adding qualifications and CPD, but lets not be fooled into dressing playing Marla and changing little Johnny's pissy pants up as something it isn't.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Whereisgalway wrote: »

I did my regular work from home along side juggling the 3 kids, wasn’t easy and have had hiccups but with planning & preparation it’s manageable

If the average class size in Ireland was three kids; or if every parent in the country worked from home, you'd have a point.

Also - did you teach them up to Leaving Cert level?

I think any thread deliberately started to provoke a response or degrade any profession should be taken down by mods. This thread serves no purpose but to cause arguments.

Yes nurses are underpaid. But that does not mean teachers or any other professions for that matter are over paid. Times of crisis seem to bring out the worst in people sitting around on their ar&#es with nothing better to do than cause provocation for their own amusement.

Grow up and stop trolling.

Strumms

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Let's be honest, in another 6 months or whatever, nurses will go back to being accused of being overpaid, like the rest of the public service, and back to being the enemy.

Probably at least a third (conservatively) of the comments in the threads around our industrial action over a year ago will always remind me of that.

They are only accused of being overpaid by armchair no nothings. Anybody who spends any time in hospital sees first hand how hard nurses work. How broad their talents are, a big skillset and personality is required as well as a heavy work ethic.

JustAThought

Larbre34 wrote: »

Well thats mainly thanks to that *****hawk Kathy Sinnott and the damage she inflicted on both the kids with special needs and the mainstream pupils by forcing them to be lumped in together. Her do-gooder ways have had lasting impacts.

somebody needs to take a childrens rights case against children who are not mentally functioning at their age being allowed to sit in classes with normal children and systematically wreck their education. Its a game of lottery - between the numbers per class of children with zero english language capabilities and children with significant behavior and mental illness problems so extreme being accepted into schools and allowed in mainstream classrooms and contributing nothing but constant stress and distraction to the teacher a source of endless problems and disruption to other childrens teaching and wellbeing.

You wouldnt expect an office to function with no firedoors are they are locked tight from inside against someone mentally ill in the class running off, or to sit in an office with someone yowling and making animal noises all day, or screaming and banging their head against a desk or jumping up and down and going between desks and hitting others - why are the unions allowing it in classrooms?

This along with non diagnosed children being also let in the classrooms with little ability to learn or concept of how to behave - again - its in specialist schools/ daycenters they should be in and not ruining healthy childrens education and opportunities and breaking trachers mental helth and stress levels and destroying the environment for others to learn in and their teachers ability to focus on the group and teach.

THAT is what the trained nurses should be doing in specialised daycare units.

cal naughton

I think that our Teachers should follow the great example of Teachers in the UK and return to work to teach the children of what the UK government have called " Key Workers" . It would be a great show of solidarity with colleagues across the Public Sector.

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev

Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev wrote: »

A registered staff nurse or midwife starts at €29,346 after registration. The industry standard for shift work involving nights is 30%, which teachers do not do.
So let's adjust the €29,346÷1.3 to give a salary less shift allowance.
That's €22,574. Nurses work 12-hour shifts, three days a week (correct me if I'm wrong) and work 48 weeks a year.
That's 1728 hours of work per year which works out at €13.06 per hour per hour worked

Source: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0209/1028490-nurses-pay/

Teachers start on significantly more. Newly qualified teachers start on €36,953 per anum. They don't work shifts so no need to adjust salary for this. Their compulsory work starts at 9:00 and finishes at 16:00. This is a 7 hour day. Supervision of extra-curricular activities and after-school study is not obligatory. They have a week off at Hallowe'en, two weeks at Christmas, a week in February, two weeks at Easter and 11 in summer. Thus, they only work 41 weeks per year or 1435 hours per year. This equates to an equivalent hourly rate of €25.75 per hour worked.

https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

Teachers are raking in double the hourly rate and their sleep patterns are not disturbed, they're not abused by drunks or druggies, they're not dealing with death or distressing situations.

I'm neither a teacher nor a nurse before anyone accuses me of having an agenda and I earn a package far in excess of the aforementioned salaries.

Let's give our nurses a round of applause.

If you’re going down that road then barely anyone should earn more than nurses, but why let that get in the way of a good thinly veiled teacher bash?

cal naughton

cal naughton wrote: »

I think that our Teachers should follow the great example of Teachers in the UK and return to work to teach the children of what the UK government have called " Key Workers" . It would be a great show of solidarity with colleagues across the Public Sector.

We shouldn’t do anything the UK are doing. They’re led by an imbecile.

Larbre34

cal naughton wrote: »

I think that our Teachers should follow the great example of Teachers in the UK and return to work to teach the children of what the UK government have called " Key Workers" . It would be a great show of solidarity with colleagues across the Public Sector.

Quite right. Private sector creches want to do the same, subject to rigourous protection measures and testing.

Sorry about that

I'm a nurse, and in my opinion, this thread is a wind-up, so best ignored.

Rodney Bathgate

Teachers have better unions, teachers have shown they are willing to blackmail the country and they have shown they are more than happy to throw future teachers under the bus to keep their terms and conditions.