Leaving Cert 2020 arrangements due to COVID-19

Wexford96

The mental health of 6th year students is not something I've heard any mention of from our leaders/rulers. These kids have been building up to June 2020 for the past 5-6 years and the rug has been pulled from under them. The dream of leaving home, studying in the city or overseas, emigrating, joining the army, becoming a member of the workforce or whatever dreams they have, has all been stopped indefinitely by the government/regime.
We were told a few weeks ago that exams would happen 'by hook or by crook'. Now we are told the Junior Cert is a school based assessment like Christmas or Summer tests and that the LC might happen in late July or August. So that a period spanning July 20th to Aug 31st?
The Minister for Ed. might be available to update the students in early June, but until then they're expected to just keep their heads down and prepare for an exam that he could cancel like he has the JC? Where will he be between now and early June? Isn't he the head of Education in Ireland? Has said he wants to become invisible for the next 7 weeks till early June?
What about these kids? What about those in unhappy homes who have longed to get away in Summer 2020? It may be violence in the home, alcoholism or whatever. But I'm sure there are plenty 17/18 year olds out there and their worlds have been torn apart. They've done what they were told all along and the Leaving Cert was their ticket to freedom/independence.
The message given by the Minister is far too vague, and dismissive. I found it to be completely unhelpful and depressing for any kid who needs structure/direction/inspiration in their lives. God help them and their mental health. Teachers/Adults are expected to bring order to our kids/students lives and make them feel as comfortable about the future as possible. Isn't that what all these new CSPE/SPHE type classes are about. Then the Minister of education craps down on top of them like this? It wouldn't happen in a third world nation. I have great sympathy for the 6th year students of our country who are leaderless, cant plan, and have had their routines/structures ripped apart by the politicians in charge. Where there's a will there's a way. These exams could go ahead in June. But the will just isn't there.

rainbowtrout

Wexford96 wrote: »

The dream of leaving home, studying in the city or overseas, emigrating, joining the army, becoming a member of the workforce or whatever dreams they have, has all been stopped indefinitely by the government/regime.

Cop on. There is a global pandemic going on at the moment. Corona virus is delaying exams, do you think we should just open up all the schools and continue as normal?

Those dreams will still happen, it will just be delayed by a few months. Everyone's lives have been put on hold, not just Leaving Certs.

Wexford96 wrote: »

We were told a few weeks ago that exams would happen 'by hook or by crook'. Now we are told the Junior Cert is a school based assessment like Christmas or Summer tests and that the LC might happen in late July or August. So that a period spanning July 20th to Aug 31st?

Junior Cert was never promised to go ahead, only the Leaving Cert. Go back and listen to the statements made by Leo, Joe, Simon etc.

If you bothered to read the press release you would know the timeline that has been outlined.

Wexford96 wrote: »

The Minister for Ed. might be available to update the students in early June, but until then they're expected to just keep their heads down and prepare for an exam that he could cancel like he has the JC? Where will he be between now and early June? Isn't he the head of Education in Ireland? Has said he wants to become invisible for the next 7 weeks till early June?

If social distancing works like it did in China and people have enough cop on to stay at home, corona virus cases will drop, enough to allow the LC to run in late summer. If people behave like selfish fcukwits, then we don't know how it will pan out. Nobody knows. What exactly do you expect the Minister of Education to do for the next 7 weeks. Put out a daily press release saying he's still working towards July/August. He's given a date, he has to work with the teaching unions and SEC to produce a workable plan. They have to recruit more examiners. Some examiners that supervise are over 70 and may not want to supervise, some others will have underlying health issue or might be pregnant and will not want to supervise. They need to work out if some smaller schools have enough suitable rooms to provide space for the exams or if they will need to rent halls, rooms, conference venues. There are a huge amount of logistics to be worked out in the next few weeks, none of which are of any concern to those who will be sitting exams. In the meantime students can continue to study.

Wexford96 wrote: »

What about these kids? What about those in unhappy homes who have longed to get away in Summer 2020? It may be violence in the home, alcoholism or whatever. But I'm sure there are plenty 17/18 year olds out there and their worlds have been torn apart. They've done what they were told all along and the Leaving Cert was their ticket to freedom/independence.

Lots of people are stuck in ****ty situations, but guess what, regardless of whether or not the LC happened in June, they would most likely be stuck in those situations for the remainder of the summer? Where do you think they'd go? Emigrate to Australia? Australia has shut its borders for 6 months. America on a J1? Usit has gone bust, forget the J1 this year... that and Trump has banned European flights. UK???? They've got it worse than us at the moment. Move out??? To where?

You're making it sound like the government have postponed the Leaving Cert just to destroy Leaving Certs lives. Maybe you'll get a bit of perspective in the next few years when this country, and many more like it are trying to recover and rebuild after the huge recession that is coming. Those students might be delighted that their plans were delayed for a while, because there's a good chance if they go to college they'll be graduating into an economy in recession and emigration may not be an attractive option as other countries could be dealing with their own recession.

Wexford96 wrote: »

I have great sympathy for the 6th year students of our country who are leaderless, cant plan, and have had their routines/structures ripped apart by the politicians in charge. Where there's a will there's a way. These exams could go ahead in June. But the will just isn't there.

Go ahead in June? We haven't reached the peak of this virus yet. There are over 9000 cases in the country. Not a hope this could go ahead safely in June without the virus spreading like wildfire and have our health service collapse under the rapid increase in cases. Cop on.

Peregrine

This article provides a good contrast. A lot of skepticism towards predicted grades in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-52330339

Larbre34

I see my younger cousin on social media lamenting the damage to his fellow students' mental health, bemoaning the lack of democracy that Leaving Certers 'vote' to cancel the exams has been ignored, exhorting people of all generations to sign his change.org petition and restore equity to this situation....

Then I happened to be talking to his Grandfather yesterday and it turns out that for 2 years he hasn't done a ****ing tap.

Canard

Based at least on the schools in my local area, there isn't a hope that predicted grades would be reliable. There were teachers in my school with years of experience (apparently even in SEC marking) who couldn't follow a marking scheme, let alone give a reliable estimate of grades. I teach in a UK curriculum school and there are constant data captures, which is what we are basing our predicted grades off. My school in Ireland had nothing of the sort and some of my grades shocked my teachers (for better or for worse!). You can't just emulate another country's solution when you haven't laid the groundwork for it.

randylonghorn

And even with a system which at least was in existence, and which was to SOME extent tried and tested ...

Dr. Gill Wyness, UCL Institute of Education. wrote:

I find evidence that the system of predicted grades is inaccurate. Only 16% of applicants achieved the A-level grade points that they were predicted to achieve, based on their best three A-levels. However, the vast majority (75% of applicants) were over-predicted – ie their grades were predicted to be higher than they actually achieved. Students from disadvantaged backgrounds and state schools are more likely to be over-predicted, whilst those at independent schools receive more accurate predictions. However, accuracy varies dramatically according to the A-level attainment of the student with lower[ attaining applicants far more likely to have their grades over-predicted. Therefore, after controlling for prior attainment and background characteristics, students from state schools are actually less likely to be overpredicted than those in independent and grammar schools.

Meanwhile, at the top of the attainment distribution, grades are slightly more likely to be under-predicted, and among these high-attaining students, applicants from low income backgrounds are significantly more likely to have their grades under-predicted than those from high-income backgrounds.

My emphasis.



Source: https://www.ucu.org.uk/media/8409/Predicted-grades-accuracy-and-impact-Dec-16/pdf/Predicted_grades_report_Dec2016.pdf

Larbre34 wrote: »

I see my younger cousin on social media lamenting the damage to his fellow students' mental health, bemoaning the lack of democracy that Leaving Certers 'vote' to cancel the exams has been ignored, exhorting people of all generations to sign his change.org petition and restore equity to this situation....

Then I happened to be talking to his Grandfather yesterday and it turns out that for 2 years he hasn't done a ****ing tap.

Given that the ISSU survey was online, I wonder how often he and others like him voted?

cena

students should just repeat the year.

Peregrine

cena wrote: »

students should just repeat the year.

Then what? Twice the number of students sitting the Leaving Cert next year. Twice the number of students applying to universities next year. No graduates in 3-4 years.

I think the predicted grades system that the students are calling for is full of questions but even that's better than this.

cena

Peregrine wrote: »

Then what? Twice the number of students sitting the Leaving Cert next year. Twice the number of students applying to universities next year. No graduates in 3-4 years.

I think the predicted grades system that the students are calling for is full of questions but even that's better than this.

I don't see how students would ready for exams in the next few months. No all are going to apply for college some may take a year out

combat14

after yesterday's announcement on large events being cancelled and this announcement from the minister today is the leaving cert really going ahead?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/state-working-on-contingency-arrangements-in-case-leaving-cert-cant-go-ahead-in-july-education-minister-39148768.html

History Queen

combat14 wrote: »

after yesterday's announcement on large events being cancelled and this announcement from the minister today is the leaving cert really going ahead?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/state-working-on-contingency-arrangements-in-case-leaving-cert-cant-go-ahead-in-july-education-minister-39148768.html

Yesterday's announcement was based on gatherings of over 5000? How could that have any bearing on the Leaving Cert? And today he said that they are currently running with plan A but also have contingencies being worked on in case needed. Seems prudent. No reason to think at this stage that it won't go ahead.

Please try to avoid scaremongering and baseless speculation. Parents and students are worried enough without worrying about something that may or may not come to pass. Speculationis adding to their misery. My advice to those effected is to focus on the here and now. As of this moment in time the exams are happening. Plan accordingly.

rainbowtrout

combat14 wrote: »

after yesterday's announcement on large events being cancelled and this announcement from the minister today is the leaving cert really going ahead?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/state-working-on-contingency-arrangements-in-case-leaving-cert-cant-go-ahead-in-july-education-minister-39148768.html

But there won't be 5000 students in any school sitting the Leaving Cert. In the biggest schools in the country the LC year group might be between 200-250, which can be split across multiple rooms.

And they have to have a contingency plan. They can't just plan that the LC with 100% go ahead in July/August. They don't know that for sure. Nobody does.

combat14

Interesting article on Hong Kong exams - everyone's temperature checked going in:


Masked Hong Kong students take final school exams

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/masked-hong-kong-students-take-final-school-exams-1.4236789?mode=amp

combat14

dublin branch of TUI call for leaving cert to be cancelled
some good points made:


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-union-distances-itself-from-branch-seeking-cancellation-of-leaving-cert-1.4238464?mode=amp

mdudy

History Queen wrote: »

Please try to avoid scaremongering and baseless speculation.

Baseless speculation? Lol. It is literally not baseless.

combat14

A leading expert in infectious diseases is calling for students to wear face masks when they’re sitting the Leaving Cert.

A similar measure was adopted for 50,000 pupils in Hong Kong on Friday.

And Professor Sam McConkey, from the RCSI, told The Irish Times that Irish authorities should force students to do likewise.


https://beat102103.com/news/calls-for-students-to-wear-face-masks-when-sitting-the-leaving-cert/

helpful

I heard today that the plan in our local secondary school is to have 4 students per classroom to sit the exams, school cleaners to clean the door handles each time they’re touched and clean the tables and chairs after each exam. Unsure how true it is but it came from a cleaner in the school.
I’m unsure where they would get the man power to supervise the extra exam centres though?
I also think it might be a good idea to have every teacher correct the exams to speed up the process and gives teachers experience too.

rainbowtrout

helpful wrote: »

I heard today that the plan in our local secondary school is to have 4 students per classroom to sit the exams, school cleaners to clean the door handles each time they’re touched and clean the tables and chairs after each exam. Unsure how true it is but it came from a cleaner in the school.
I’m unsure where they would get the man power to supervise the extra exam centres though?
I also think it might be a good idea to have every teacher correct the exams to speed up the process and gives teachers experience too.

There's no point forcing people to correct exams - you can't anyway. But you want people correcting that actually want to do the job and not just do a slapdash effort to get it out of the way.

helpful

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's no point forcing people to correct exams - you can't anyway. But you want people correcting that actually want to do the job and not just do a slapdash effort to get it out of the way.

That’s a great point I hadn’t thought if it that way.

randylonghorn

With a question over how they will hold exam conferences, the last thing they need is hundreds of inexperienced markers tbh. They will need to have some anyway I suspect who were scheduled to correct JC and will be asked to move up, but at least these will be used to SEC systems, and some of these may have corrected LC before.

Given what we know or can guess of the likely LC timeframe, it is quite possible, even likely, that some marking will carry over into September, when schools will be opening (we hope).

Far more useful for teachers who have no marking experience to try to take a bit of the pressure involved off their colleagues who are marking, and let them get on with the job.

combat14

Is the leaving cert going to be cancelled?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/fianna-fail-says-leaving-cert-exams-cancelled-1009507

rainbowtrout

combat14 wrote: »

Is the leaving cert going to be cancelled?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/fianna-fail-says-leaving-cert-exams-cancelled-1009507

It's not currently. It's just politicians trying to make a name for themselves.

helpful

FF have made things so much worse and are not offering an alternative which is just adding fuel to the fire now. They are likely to be in government soon and don’t seem to have any answers.
What I’m most confused about is why people are saying there’s been no guidance? We’ve been told it’s starting on the 29th of July so the students have an extra few weeks to study. I know it’s hard because they’re not in school but I’m sure this will be factored into the marking and everyone is in the same boat so the curve will remain the same.
In life you can make excuses for things or you can put your head down and get on with it and that’s what the leaving certs need to do. Yes it’s a strange time for these students but they age adults now and this is life!!
Estimated grades just seems unfair you can’t say that work that didn’t mean anything 6 months ago now determines whether you go to college or not!! The amount of cases that would be challenged would make a mockery of the process. If the exams do not happen this year then these students will be judged forever by people in jobs.
Students should be told it starts July 29th so get going with the study and do your best!!

combat14

helpful wrote: »

FF have made things so much worse and are not offering an alternative which is just adding fuel to the fire now. They are likely to be in government soon and don’t seem to have any answers.
What I’m most confused about is why people are saying there’s been no guidance? We’ve been told it’s starting on the 29th of July so the students have an extra few weeks to study. I know it’s hard because they’re not in school but I’m sure this will be factored into the marking and everyone is in the same boat so the curve will remain the same.
In life you can make excuses for things or you can put your head down and get on with it and that’s what the leaving certs need to do. Yes it’s a strange time for these students but they age adults now and this is life!!
Estimated grades just seems unfair you can’t say that work that didn’t mean anything 6 months ago now determines whether you go to college or not!! The amount of cases that would be challenged would make a mockery of the process. If the exams do not happen this year then these students will be judged forever by people in jobs.
Students should be told it starts July 29th so get going with the study and do your best!!

Looks like FF could be in power shortly.... so anything could happen to LC yet ...

randylonghorn

What's really unfair on students is that the media have so little happening / to talk about that they're stirring it and stirring it, and of course politicians are wired to always say they would do it "better" than the opposition party even if they don't understand the issues (and don't care coz it's not their responsibility at the moment!). So the LC students are being used as a political football right now.

Far better for their own mental health / stress levels tbh if they ignored the politicians, the media, twitter, the "experts" from the UK and Dubai and whoever else is dragged in to comment, etc., for the sake of filling airtime / paragraph inches.

combat14

looks teacher unions having emergency meetings tonight should be interesting to see what comes out of it ..

SleetAndSnow

Cancelled to be replaced with predictive grades. Leaving Cert exams set to be cancelled and replaced with predicted grades (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877

hairyprincess

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Cancelled to be replaced with predictive grades. Leaving Cert exams set to be cancelled and replaced with predicted grades (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877

That is speculation, not fact. There has not been an announcement yet.

mdudy

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have seen this coming.

PTH2009

Heart goes out to everyone doing them

Cant imagine the stress and worry students and parents/guardians are going through