Air pollution increases death rate. Ban solid fuel.

s7ryf3925pivug

Air pollution likely to increase coronavirus death rate, warn experts

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/17/air-pollution-likely-to-increase-coronavirus-death-rate-warn-experts?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The article describes the risk to city dwellers. In Ireland towns and villages have worse pollution though because of smoky coal. This already causes deaths. Now it will cause more deaths more immediately.

It's well past time solid fuel is banned.

LessOutragePlz

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

Air pollution likely to increase coronavirus death rate, warn experts

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/17/air-pollution-likely-to-increase-coronavirus-death-rate-warn-experts?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The article describes the risk to city dwellers. In Ireland towns and villages have worse pollution though because of smoky coal. This already causes deaths. Now it will cause more deaths more immediately.

It's well past time solid fuel is banned.

And what alternative are you going to offer to the folks that are currently burning solid fuels?

Who is going to pay for the implementation of your alternative source of fuel?

gifted

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

Air pollution likely to increase coronavirus death rate, warn experts

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/17/air-pollution-likely-to-increase-coronavirus-death-rate-warn-experts?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The article describes the risk to city dwellers. In Ireland towns and villages have worse pollution though because of smoky coal. This already causes deaths. Now it will cause more deaths more immediately.

It's well past time solid fuel is banned.

So what can I burn instead?

Atlantic Dawn

I recall an episode of Eco Eye towards the end of last year where a home in Donaghmede in a densly populated area got grants to retrofit and this included a wood burning stove, unbelievable that the government finances this level of toxic pollution upon the people...

What was completed?

Replaced all the window and doors
Applied external wall insulation
Removed existing heating system and installed a new heat pump with new low temperature radiators
Installed a new wood-burning stove
Improved airtightness of the building and installed a new mechanical ventilation system
300mm of attic quilt insulation
LED lighting
Installed Solar PV panels

https://www.seai.ie/blog/deep-retrofit-review/

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/eco-eye/SI0000000494?epguid=AI000002951

AllGunsBlazing

Why stop there? Sure may as well introduce a ban on petrol and diesel cars too.

Give people until the end of the week to comply.

s7ryf3925pivug

gifted wrote: »

So what can I burn instead?

Properly dried wood is a lot less damaging than coal, turf or non-dried wood. Smokeless coal is obviously less bad too.

rn

Burning anything in a domestic setting is really bad for air quality. Dry timber is terrible for air quality v smokey coal or turf, which are atrocious for air quality.

I think it's only in past year or so the true effect of wood burning is better understood. However, there are high performance stoves available and I find since putting in a stove that we don't burn 1/4 of fuel we used to, so that's a massive improvement for the environment. I expect future government grants will not include stoves

What's this got to do with covid19?

s7ryf3925pivug

rn wrote: »

Burning anything in a domestic setting is really bad for air quality. Dry timber is terrible for air quality v smokey coal or turf, which are atrocious for air quality.

I think it's only in past year or so the true effect of wood burning is better understood. However, there are high performance stoves available and I find since putting in a stove that we don't burn 1/4 of fuel we used to, so that's a massive improvement for the environment. I expect future government grants will not include stoves

What's this got to do with covid19?

The article I linked in the first post describes how air pollution causes more people to die from Covid-19.

The feasibility and benefits of the smoky coal ban are long established because it has been in place for ages in urban areas.

Beasty

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

The article I linked in the first post describes how air pollution causes more people to die from Covid-19.

It's equally relevant to any respiratory disease and those who suffer from them

gifted

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

Properly dried wood is a lot less damaging than coal, turf or non-dried wood. Smokeless coal is obviously less bad too.

What do you think I'm burning? Not everyone out there burns non smokeless coal and turf. A few of us abide by the rules.

gifted

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

The article I linked in the first post describes how air pollution causes more people to die from Covid-19.

The feasibility and benefits of the smoky coal ban are long established because it has been in place for ages in urban areas.

But you're calling for all solid fuel to be banned?

ironclaw

Unless you have been in China or India, don't talk about air pollution as you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm talking a solid, toxic sludge of air that you can't see from one end of a corridor to another, inside! My lung capacity is diminished by spending less than 12 weeks in Beijing. A really bad day in London has an index of about ~70, I was in Beijing when it was over 400.

Dublin is currently at 28: https://aqicn.org/city/dublin/

Beijing at 74: https://aqicn.org/city/beijing

Shanghai at 165: https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/

Now imagine breathing that every day of your life for 60 years and then getting COVID-19. You don't stand a chance.

Ireland doesn't have next or near the level of air pollution that would make any difference to COVID-19. Yes, we should move away from solid fuels and look towards green energy, no doubt, but it has zero connection of COVID-19.

s7ryf3925pivug

gifted wrote: »

What do you think I'm burning? Not everyone out there burns non smokeless coal and turf. A few of us abide by the rules.

There are no rules preventing burning smoky coal and turf in rural Ireland. I am calling for these rules to be introduced.

s7ryf3925pivug

ironclaw wrote: »

Unless you have been in China or India, don't talk about air pollution as you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm talking a solid, toxic sludge of air that you can't see from one end of a corridor to another, inside! My lung capacity is diminished by spending less than 12 weeks in Beijing. A really bad day in London has an index of about ~70, I was in Beijing when it was over 400.

Dublin is currently at 28: https://aqicn.org/city/dublin/

Beijing at 74: https://aqicn.org/city/beijing

Shanghai at 165: https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/

Now imagine breathing that every day of your life for 60 years and then getting COVID-19. You don't stand a chance.

Ireland doesn't have next or near the level of air pollution that would make any difference to COVID-19. Yes, we should move away from solid fuels and look towards green energy, no doubt, but it has zero connection of COVID-19.

Air pollution in Wexford regularly exceeds that in Beijing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/air-pollution-in-irish-town-worse-than-beijing-expert-warns-36458809.html

Thelonious Monk

ironclaw wrote: »

Unless you have been in China or India, don't talk about air pollution as you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm talking a solid, toxic sludge of air that you can't see from one end of a corridor to another, inside! My lung capacity is diminished by spending less than 12 weeks in Beijing. A really bad day in London has an index of about ~70, I was in Beijing when it was over 400.

Dublin is currently at 28: https://aqicn.org/city/dublin/

Beijing at 74: https://aqicn.org/city/beijing

Shanghai at 165: https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/

Now imagine breathing that every day of your life for 60 years and then getting COVID-19. You don't stand a chance.

Ireland doesn't have next or near the level of air pollution that would make any difference to COVID-19. Yes, we should move away from solid fuels and look towards green energy, no doubt, but it has zero connection of COVID-19.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/solid-fuel-burning-to-blame-as-letterkenny-has-higher-levels-of-air-pollution-than-new-delhi-971995.html

Donegal is pretty bad apparently

kirving

ironclaw wrote: »

Unless you have been in China or India, don't talk about air pollution as you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm talking a solid, toxic sludge of air that you can't see from one end of a corridor to another, inside!

.........

Ireland doesn't have next or near the level of air pollution that would make any difference to COVID-19. Yes, we should move away from solid fuels and look towards green energy, no doubt, but it has zero connection of COVID-19.

Agreed. The company I work for make cameras. Occasionally their focus need at long range needs to bed tested, which can mean going outside. Sometimes the smog is so bad in China that they can't see down the road.

We are worlds away from that level of pollution.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/solid-fuel-burning-to-blame-as-letterkenny-has-higher-levels-of-air-pollution-than-new-delhi-971995.html

Donegal is pretty bad apparently

Maybe it does, but that article has got a single figure in it so I don't trust it. Its probably true for a single pollutant type, on a given day, but give me Donegal air over New Delhi Air every single day.

gifted

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

There are no rules preventing burning smoky coal and turf in rural Ireland. I am calling for these rules to be introduced.

http://www.galway.ie/en/services/environment/environmentalprotectionbeachesburialgrounds/airquality/smokeycoalban/#

They're the rules that I go by. I buy my coal and wood from my supplier that abides by the above rules

Again though, in your opening post you called for a ban on solid fuel?

gifted

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

Air pollution in Wexford regularly exceeds that in Beijing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/air-pollution-in-irish-town-worse-than-beijing-expert-warns-36458809.html

Im open to correction here but wexford is the only place in ireland that has yet to introduce a smoky ban.....done an NZEB course down there recently and was shown filters from air systems and in fairness the quality of air is really bad.

s7ryf3925pivug

gifted wrote: »

Im open to correction here but wexford is the only place in ireland that has yet to introduce a smoky ban.....done an NZEB course down there recently and was shown filters from air systems and in fairness the quality of air was bad

Edit...

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/environment/air-water-and-noise-pollution/air-pollution

The smoky coal ban only extends to towns and cities above a certain population. Rural Ireland doesn't have it.

The air quality is terrible in many places as a result. I understand it is especially bad in Wexford and New Roos because they're in a valley so the smoke doesn't disperse. But it is also terrible in many places. Anyone downwind from smoky coal fires knows all about it.

The ban was supposed to be rolled out to the whole country. However this was pushed back indefinitely when some coal suppliers threatened to sue on the grounds that wood and peat burning are similarly damaging.

What will probably eventually happen is that they'll roll out the ban in a different form, probably similar to what is being done in the UK. They have recently banned solid fuel except for smokeless products and firewood with a max limit on the moisture content. (Not certain whether that was done at a national or local level there.)

Edit: Yes actually they rolled out the ban to some larger towns this year which probably include Wexford and New Ross, so they might not still be a current example. However they are an established example of how bad smoky coal can be for the local air quality.

ironclaw

Nadia Polite Organist wrote: »

Air pollution in Wexford regularly exceeds that in Beijing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/air-pollution-in-irish-town-worse-than-beijing-expert-warns-36458809.html

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/solid-fuel-burning-to-blame-as-letterkenny-has-higher-levels-of-air-pollution-than-new-delhi-971995.html

Donegal is pretty bad apparently

You mean a single day out of the year for a few hours? Are you seriously contradicting my points by pointing to singular times that New Ross came close to a good day in Beijing?

The population of New Ross is 8,040 people. The population of Beijing is 21.54 million. New Ross could burn drums of diesel all day every day and not even come close to the impact of Beijing on a given day.

The scale is simply uncomparable to anyone that hasn't set foot there and I'd urge anyone who is worried about climate change or air pollution to go there. You can't fathom the problem, and how good we have it until you see and breath it in for yourself.

Muahahaha

ironclaw wrote: »

Unless you have been in China or India, don't talk about air pollution as you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm talking a solid, toxic sludge of air that you can't see from one end of a corridor to another, inside! My lung capacity is diminished by spending less than 12 weeks in Beijing. A really bad day in London has an index of about ~70, I was in Beijing when it was over 400.

Dublin is currently at 28: https://aqicn.org/city/dublin/

Beijing at 74: https://aqicn.org/city/beijing

Shanghai at 165: https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/

Now imagine breathing that every day of your life for 60 years and then getting COVID-19. You don't stand a chance.

Ireland doesn't have next or near the level of air pollution that would make any difference to COVID-19. Yes, we should move away from solid fuels and look towards green energy, no doubt, but it has zero connection of COVID-19.

China and India are pretty bad in the cities but I dont think Ive ever experienced anything as bad as Manila in the Philippines. In just one afternoon there I was coughing up crap. When you're standing at the pedestrian lights the fumes from the traffic are so thick that your vision of the other side of the road is a blur. Awful place, I dont know how millions of people live in those conditions day after day.

As for banning solid fuel- that would be political suicide, thousands of people rely on it as a form of heat and many of them are elderly. All very well saying to ban it but without a viable affordable replacement it is a non runner politically.