Large offices & COVID-19

lfen

Why are workplaces an exception to the rule discouraging gatherings of more than 100 people?

The virus doesn’t care if you are at a concert or at your desk!

Would be interested to know if many other companies are still expecting staff into their offices?

We are set up to work from home but CEO feels that it’s not necessary.

Charles Babbage

lfen wrote: »

Why are workplaces an exception to the rule discouraging gatherings of more than 100 people?

The virus doesn’t care if you are at a concert or at your desk!

Would be interested to know if many other companies are still expecting staff into their offices?

We are set up to work from home but CEO feels that it’s not necessary.

I wonder what would have to happen to make working at home necessary?

Half the staff at home and generous spacing would seem the way forward.

krissovo

People generally respect personal space in a office and the spacing can be quite generous between desks. Very different to a concert or pub.

lfen

My thoughts exactly. Someone to get it and spread it around the office perhaps?

We have staff members telling us that they have relatives awaiting test results so it's very possible that someone in here will get it.

I work in civil service. Our department has got much quieter in the last week due to Coronavirus.....the demand for our service has dropped off.
I work on a team which is mostly people in their mid twenties. I am 60. There is one bottle of sanitizer in the entire building of over 200 people - it is at the clock in area. There is none in the bathroom or at work areas. I've made my own sanitizer but its not very strong and may not be effective enough. I am very worried about picking up this virus.

We share document pouches, we operate machines with everyone touching screens, buttons and keyboards. From when I enter the building I have 10 doors to go through from going to the clock in area back to the floor I work on. Same again at lunchtime and break. I could be going through doors up to 40 times a day, that's a lot of door handles. The younger crowd were all talking about their weekend in pubs in Dublin. I feel very uneasy about this. Our work is non essential under the circumstaces right now, its not medical or Social welfare.

Do I have to keep going to work when I feel this uneasy and worried? I live alone and my kids live abroad. If I get sick I am going to be completely alone.

lfen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I work in civil service. Our department has got much quieter in the last week due to Coronavirus.....the demand for our service has dropped off.
I work on a team which is mostly people in their mid twenties. I am 60. There is one bottle of sanitizer in the entire building of over 200 people - it is at the clock in area. There is none in the bathroom or at work areas. I've made my own sanitizer but its not very strong and may not be effective enough. I am very worried about picking up this virus.

We share document pouches, we operate machines with everyone touching screens, buttons and keyboards. From when I enter the building I have 10 doors to go through from going to the clock in area back to the floor I work on. Same again at lunchtime and break. I could be going through doors up to 40 times a day, that's a lot of door handles. The younger crowd were all talking about their weekend in pubs in Dublin. I feel very uneasy about this. Our work is non essential under the circumstaces right now, its not medical or Social welfare.

Do I have to keep going to work when I feel this uneasy and worried? I live alone and my kids live abroad. If I get sick I am going to be completely alone.

That’s an awful situation to be in. I’m young & healthy and I’m freaked out so can’t imagine how you feel. Is there a HR department you can raise it with?

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

I work in civil service. Our department has got much quieter in the last week due to Coronavirus.....the demand for our service has dropped off.
I work on a team which is mostly people in their mid twenties. I am 60. There is one bottle of sanitizer in the entire building of over 200 people - it is at the clock in area. There is none in the bathroom or at work areas. I've made my own sanitizer but its not very strong and may not be effective enough. I am very worried about picking up this virus.

We share document pouches, we operate machines with everyone touching screens, buttons and keyboards. From when I enter the building I have 10 doors to go through from going to the clock in area back to the floor I work on. Same again at lunchtime and break. I could be going through doors up to 40 times a day, that's a lot of door handles. The younger crowd were all talking about their weekend in pubs in Dublin. I feel very uneasy about this. Our work is non essential under the circumstaces right now, its not medical or Social welfare.

Do I have to keep going to work when I feel this uneasy and worried? I live alone and my kids live abroad. If I get sick I am going to be completely alone.

What did your manager say when you discussed your concerns with them?

whatnext

lfen wrote: »

Why are workplaces an exception to the rule discouraging gatherings of more than 100 people?

The virus doesn’t care if you are at a concert or at your desk!

Would be interested to know if many other companies are still expecting staff into their offices?

We are set up to work from home but CEO feels that it’s not necessary.

Hospitals and the HSE for one reason.
The food and medical supply chain for another.
There are many others but those ones should be enough.

Linking123!

If the distance is safe the only way to catch would be touching door handles etc.? Even if you sat in the same room right?

august12

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I work in civil service. Our department has got much quieter in the last week due to Coronavirus.....the demand for our service has dropped off.
I work on a team which is mostly people in their mid twenties. I am 60. There is one bottle of sanitizer in the entire building of over 200 people - it is at the clock in area. There is none in the bathroom or at work areas. I've made my own sanitizer but its not very strong and may not be effective enough. I am very worried about picking up this virus.

We share document pouches, we operate machines with everyone touching screens, buttons and keyboards. From when I enter the building I have 10 doors to go through from going to the clock in area back to the floor I work on. Same again at lunchtime and break. I could be going through doors up to 40 times a day, that's a lot of door handles. The younger crowd were all talking about their weekend in pubs in Dublin. I feel very uneasy about this. Our work is non essential under the circumstaces right now, its not medical or Social welfare.

Do I have to keep going to work when I feel this uneasy and worried? I live alone and my kids live abroad. If I get sick I am going to be completely alone.

This maybe if interest to you, issued by FORSA today.

https://www.forsa.ie/covid-19-advice-to-forsa-members/

august12

august12 wrote: »

This maybe if interest to you, issued by FORSA today.

https://www.forsa.ie/covid-19-advice-to-forsa-members/

Thanks for link , I’m a TCO and not in a union so I doubt I could contact FORSA?

To answer other poster I haven’t discussed this with my manager , I’ve just been thinking about it a lot today . I mentioned to a colleague in my age group about no hand sanitizer near the machines some of us use and share . Nobody else seems to even notice this.
I’m fit and healthy and spent the weekend hiking mountains with a friend but I was more aware of self isolation on the mountains with one person than my colleagues or manager seem to be in an office full of people .

ressem

Our business has been divided into groups, people who can work from home are to do so.
Admittance into the building by essential externals only with advance notice and a declaration of previous travel approved.
Groups are expected to keep to the group while in-office. Staggered groups for breaks, clocking in & out, no mingling of groups in the canteen etc.

So if an entire section of the employees have to self-isolate, others will hopefully be unaffected.
It decreases 'leanness' and flexibility, but at least it's hoped things can keep running.

Surfaces are cleaned repeatedly during the day with alcohol.
Spacing between workspaces is enforced, using the space created by remote workers + placing work desks / machinery further apart.

ligerdub

lfen wrote:

We are set up to work from home but CEO feels that it’s not necessary.

Perhaps the CEO should show some solidarity and how safe it is by sitting among the regular members of staff rather than in an isolated office well away from anyone else so.

august12

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks for link , I’m a TCO and not in a union so I doubt I could contact FORSA?

To answer other poster I haven’t discussed this with my manager , I’ve just been thinking about it a lot today . I mentioned to a colleague in my age group about no hand sanitizer near the machines some of us use and share . Nobody else seems to even notice this.
I’m fit and healthy and spent the weekend hiking mountains with a friend but I was more aware of self isolation on the mountains with one person than my colleagues or manager seem to be in an office full of people .

Forsa took info from HSE site,

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/at-risk-groups.html

august12

august12 wrote: »

Forsa took info from HSE site,

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/at-risk-groups.html

Guess I’m ok so ...... I just turned 60 two months ago but I’ve got good health, no underlying conditions and I’m fit .
I live alone (which is the main reason I’d hate to get virus in case I got it badly) but it’s also helping lower my exposure. If I get this it will be through work . Fingers crossed . Thanks

c68zapdsm5i1ru

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Guess I’m ok so ...... I just turned 60 two months ago but I’ve got good health, no underlying conditions and I’m fit .
I live alone (which is the main reason I’d hate to get virus in case I got it badly) but it’s also helping lower my exposure. If I get this it will be through work . Fingers crossed . Thanks

Can you talk to your manager about your concerns and as k if there's any work that could be assigned to you that you c8xo from home. You have a pretty convincing case.

Carlos Long Meatloaf

Carlos Long Meatloaf wrote: »

Can you talk to your manager about your concerns and as k if there's any work that could be assigned to you that you c8xo from home. You have a pretty convincing case.

Unfortunately all our work is document based and physical files of paperwork . For GDPR reasons I wouldn’t be able to remove them from work or work remotely.

But I will definitely be talking to him tomorrow about my concerns . Its fine for the younger group , they’re all saying “sure I’ll be grand it’s only a flu” and sending around joke video clips . Worst case scenario I’ll try and get certified sick note from my doctor.

I’m surprised Government departments are so lax with their own staff health when Minister for Health and Minister for Social Protection go on News and TV saying we will pull in to clear backlog of applications (& will be redeployed to do so ) . They are not protecting their own staff adequately !

Gael23

We were all sent home last Thursday

TheChizler

Deleted User wrote: »

There is one bottle of sanitizer in the entire building of over 200 people - it is at the clock in area. There is none in the bathroom or at work areas. I've made my own sanitizer but its not very strong and may not be effective enough. I am very worried about picking up this virus.

There's soap and water in the bathrooms right? Honestly hand sanitiser is a poor man's hand wash. I know of people who go around using hand sanitiser on dirty hands or wear the same pair of mittens or gloves for the entire day which is making them much more likely to spread something than if they did nothing. It doesn't get in through the skin on your hands it's by touching your face with dirty hands, or gloves.

Hoboo

People still arent getting it. When the funerals start daily and there's 15000 cases by month end let's see where your boss is.

If I were you I'd call in with symptoms and self isolate, no job is worth it, and you're well protected.

I'm finding US clients in particular a pain in the arse to deal with, they can't get their heads around the office being shut down and everyone being asked to stay at home unless absolutely essential to go to a shop or chemist. We can still log on, we have server access, we just can't file hardcopies. That can wait.

Sooner the economy takes a hit by everyone isolating, symptoms or not, sooner we can get back to work. They're just prolonging the enevitable.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

There's soap and water in the bathrooms right? Honestly hand sanitiser is a poor man's hand wash. I know of people who go around using hand sanitiser on dirty hands or wear the same pair of mittens or gloves for the entire day which is making them much more likely to spread something than if they did nothing. It doesn't get in through the skin on your hands it's by touching your face with dirty hands, or gloves.

At work it’s not practical to keep running out 3 doors to the bathroom. I use machines and handle plastic pouches that are handled by multiple other staff. To get out and back to the bathroom I need to touch 6 door handles. Every time I touch items passed around desks I can’t run to the bathroom. Nobody can.

Hand sanitizers are needed in the workplace if staff are going to be kept at work ! At least in hospitals and GP surgeries these are provided.

TheChizler

Deleted User wrote: »

At work it’s not practical to keep running out 3 doors to the bathroom. I use machines and handle plastic pouches that are handled by multiple other staff. To get out and back to the bathroom I need to touch 6 door handles. Every time I touch items passed around desks I can’t run to the bathroom. Nobody can.

Hand sanitizers are needed in the workplace if staff are going to be kept at work ! At least in hospitals and GP surgeries these are provided.

There's no point doing half measures, do it as often as you can. Use tissues or your sleeve to pull handles or push with your shoulders. Use wipes if you have then. We all have to make an effort.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

There's no point doing half measures, do it as often as you can. Use tissues or your sleeve to pull handles or push with your shoulders. Use wipes if you have then. We all have to make an effort.

Yep I’m absolutely doing all the above. 100%. Using sleeves, kicking doors open and shut (enjoying that bit!)
I also have wipes and home made sanitizer . My point (per my original post) is that most people aren’t doing this at work. I’m 60, most of my team are in their twenties. Guess I’m just trying my best. I feel my (Government) employer is not being responsible where so many people work together sharing facilities.

After this week I’m not going in anymore, hoping there is a total shutdown on non-essential office workplaces by then.

Arghus

I work in Supermarket and I feel very exposed. There are a lot of people in here every hour of every day. And any attempt at social distancing is more or less impossible.

And so many people do not get it. Still coughing open mouthed, standing way too close to each other. And so many, the majority, of my coworkers don't get it either: they basically think it's not that serious, continue to cough and clear their throat all over the place and as for hand washing - I know for a fact that many of them don't wash their hands after even using the Jacks, so, good luck, with regular hand washing.

And we are given no hand sanitisers, gloves, nothing and there's no acknowledgement from anyone in authority that this is a changed situation. It's mad. I know supermarkets are essential services, but, fck me, that doesn't change the fact that they are dicey places to work.

I wanted to pack it in after the weekend. I feel like I'm one of the few clued in people in there who knows what's coming down the tracks, but I know it would be potentially a disaster of a decision. I've about enough savings to tide me over for a few months, but after that I'd be one of the hundreds and thousands of other unemployed people.

Can I take that chance? I think it's only a matter of time before I get exposed to the virus in my current situation and while statistically chances are I'd be alright, there is also a chance you wouldn't be either.

My God, the choices and decisions we all have to make at the moment.

SCOOP 64

Have to say Argus working in a supermarket with people continently in and out all day long must be a worry but i suppose you cant just walk out, hard to know what to do, what if you wear a mask would be looked upon as odd ?

lfen

I have been wondering what precautions supermarket staff are taking. From what I can see, they just gave gloves on. Are the big wigs very appreciative of their staff turning up to the store?

Arghus

lfen wrote: »

I have been wondering what precautions supermarket staff are taking. From what I can see, they just gave gloves on. Are the big wigs very appreciative of their staff turning up to the store?

Where I work, at least, precautions are few and far between. I presume it isn't much different elsewhere. But in fairness a lot of the staff aren't even clued in enough to do what already can on an individual level in terms of precautions.

Right now precautions probably feel like they are unworkable to those in charge, but it's just a ticking time bomb. If you fail to protect staff, then it is inevitable that some of them will get sick and more and more of them will be unable to come into work - and then how is it all supposed to work?

Mrs OBumble

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Have to say Argus working in a supermarket with people continently in and out all day long must be a worry but i suppose you cant just walk out, hard to know what to do, what if you wear a mask would be looked upon as odd ?

Supermarkets should be easy to solve: install all self checkouts, and do all restocking outside customer hours. Give good PPE to the security guards and few checkout staff needed to supervise the checkouts.

Arghus

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Supermarkets should be easy to solve: install all self checkouts, and do all restocking outside customer hours. Give good PPE to the security guards and few checkout staff needed to supervise the checkouts.

In theory yes, but in practice, no. Things aren't as easy as they appear.

Lets say you try to do all your stocking outside customer hours. Currently, in the store I work in, that's 6 hours of 24. And usually, at the best of times, skeleton staffed.

There's only a certain capacity on the shelves and shopfloor also. You could stock the shelves to the point of bursting during that 6 hour customer free period, but just merely stocking the shelves to their capacity once isn't going meet customer demand or clear your backlog of delivery overstocks - if you can't pack during customer hours - particularly in the case of perishable goods that rely on quick and constant delivery, stocking and buying.

In a nutshell deliveries are constant and currently enormous, due to demand, and there is only so much storage space in each store and every day more and more stuff is arriving on top of that, but meanwhile, you are trying to restrict the hours during which you can put things on the shelves? That's an unworkable solution that would result in more and more empty shelves, but absurdly chock a block warehouses.

I'm not following you when you say install all self service checkouts? Do you mean literally replace every checkout with a self service one. Okay, that takes time, money, equipment, manpower, planning. If it was to be really done en masse, as opposed to incrementally, you'd probably have to close the store for at least a day, possibly two. It's a big enough operation, you don't just click your fingers. And closing a supermarket for 24 hours right now? And in any case self service checkouts have limited usefulness for people doing big weekly shops. They're efficient if you've got a few bits. That's what they are designed for.

Is two meters really much use in an office when you are sat there all day beside people. I work in an office with 10 other people. We are about the 2m apart. I'm not convinced its safe when we are all sat there for the day breathing the same air.

Gael23

SuperValu have put up Perspex screens at their checkouts, kind of like post offices

TheChizler

Deleted User wrote: »

Is two meters really much use in an office when you are sat there all day beside people. I work in an office with 10 other people. We are about the 2m apart. I'm not convinced its safe when we are all sat there for the day breathing the same air.

Unless they're sneezing or particularly spitty when they talk at you it's pretty unlikely you'll breathe in droplets. It's not in the air as such. Just be mindful of shared surfaces.

MrsBean

Just a note to the original poster. I am in similar situation, working in CS in shared office space. On Friday our office made the move to wedge open any doors that they could, disarm swipe access etc so that people can avoid touching them unnecessarily. Ask about that.

I brought in Milton sterilising fluid in a spray bottle to clean down the machines, buttons and handles that we all have to use. Clean down regularly. Ask facilities for gloves so that you don’t have to handle pouches etc directly. Not feasible to wash your hands all the time but as regularly as you can. I also keep windows open to circulate fresh air.

An Ri rua

Arghus wrote: »

In theory yes, but in practice, no. Things aren't as easy as they appear.

Lets say you try to do all your stocking outside customer hours. Currently, in the store I work in, that's 6 hours of 24. And usually, at the best of times, skeleton staffed.

There's only a certain capacity on the shelves and shopfloor also. You could stock the shelves to the point of bursting during that 6 hour customer free period, but just merely stocking the shelves to their capacity once isn't going meet customer demand or clear your backlog of delivery overstocks - if you can't pack during customer hours - particularly in the case of perishable goods that rely on quick and constant delivery, stocking and buying.

In a nutshell deliveries are constant and currently enormous, due to demand, and there is only so much storage space in each store and every day more and more stuff is arriving on top of that, but meanwhile, you are trying to restrict the hours during which you can put things on the shelves? That's an unworkable solution that would result in more and more empty shelves, but absurdly chock a block warehouses.

I'm not following you when you say install all self service checkouts? Do you mean literally replace every checkout with a self service one. Okay, that takes time, money, equipment, manpower, planning. If it was to be really done en masse, as opposed to incrementally, you'd probably have to close the store for at least a day, possibly two. It's a big enough operation, you don't just click your fingers. And closing a supermarket for 24 hours right now? And in any case self service checkouts have limited usefulness for people doing big weekly shops. They're efficient if you've got a few bits. That's what they are designed for.

None of what was suggested takes time, money, equipment in the way that you say.

Re restocking, it could be planned, and advertised widely that eg 12-1 and 4-5 are now stocking times and closed to the public. Not rocket science.
Also, in eg Tesco, simply close the main tills and have more security guards and other staff in that supervisory function over self-service tills. Far from ideal but very easy, and quick, to implement while we await Plan B. Most people have a lot of time on their hands. Their visit can be staggered either v basically (queueing, not a great plan) or some other identifier eg scanning their value/club card that allows them access to shop.
It's all doable. It simply has to happen now as we find novel ways to re-order our lives.

splashuum

There’s talks of the restrictions being brought forward. Will large offices be brought back sooner than we thought?

We're talking after phase 5 where I work. Could be year end though for those with health issues

Willow216

Anybody work in a call centre? Just wondering if you guys are being forced back into the one room again on Monday?


I won't name the place, but they tried to do it this week, for Monday 8th, but somebody complained and they organised face masks (which is not practical for speaking on phone all day)


At the moment people are working from home, and then some people have been moved into their vacated offices. So everybody is separate.



I thought it was meant to continue like this for a while longer, no?


(I did try ringing HSA to get some info on distancing in offices, etc, but can't get through)


From gov.ie page, where the phases are laid out, it's says businesses working remotely should continue to do so.

splashuum

Willow216 wrote: »

Anybody work in a call centre? Just wondering if you guys are being forced back into the one room again on Monday?


I won't name the place, but they tried to do it this week, for Monday 8th, but somebody complained and they organised face masks (which is not practical for speaking on phone all day)


At the moment people are working from home, and then some people have been moved into their vacated offices. So everybody is separate.



I thought it was meant to continue like this for a while longer, no?


(I did try ringing HSA to get some info on distancing in offices, etc, but can't get through)


From gov.ie page, where the phases are laid out, it's says businesses working remotely should continue to do so.

You definitely shouldn't be going back to the office. Remote working must continue where possible and is now more important than ever.

lfen

Willow216 wrote: »

Anybody work in a call centre? Just wondering if you guys are being forced back into the one room again on Monday?


I won't name the place, but they tried to do it this week, for Monday 8th, but somebody complained and they organised face masks (which is not practical for speaking on phone all day)


At the moment people are working from home, and then some people have been moved into their vacated offices. So everybody is separate.



I thought it was meant to continue like this for a while longer, no?


(I did try ringing HSA to get some info on distancing in offices, etc, but can't get through)


From gov.ie page, where the phases are laid out, it's says businesses working remotely should continue to do so.

Yes, manage a call centre & sounds like your employer is jumping the gun. The gov advice is to work from home if possible to do so. Can you work from home?

Willow216

lfen wrote: »

Yes, manage a call centre & sounds like your employer is jumping the gun. The gov advice is to work from home if possible to do so. Can you work from home?

Yes, technically I can and am willing to. When lock down happened some people went home and that freed up private offices, so the staff that chose not to go home were able to spread out through the building.



I ended up with a private office, instead of going home. I was happy with this as there were a few systems I wasn't 100% sure of (I'm not in the job that long) and my manager was in an office on the same floor.



About 2 weeks ago I requested to work from home, as I felt comfortable with systems, and they said 'no', that everybody was being called back in for Monday 8th June (that's now been pushed to next Monday)


Phase 2 on gov.ie says guidelines are to continue remote working, 'more important than ever', so I'm very confused why they are pushing for this. Fairly large organisation too, would have assumed they would know better.



Thanks for your reply, do you mind me asking is everyone in your place working from home? And if so, when does your company intend to go back to normal?

lfen

Willow216 wrote: »

Yes, technically I can and am willing to. When lock down happened some people went home and that freed up private offices, so the staff that chose not to go home were able to spread out through the building.



I ended up with a private office, instead of going home. I was happy with this as there were a few systems I wasn't 100% sure of (I'm not in the job that long) and my manager was in an office on the same floor.



About 2 weeks ago I requested to work from home, as I felt comfortable with systems, and they said 'no', that everybody was being called back in for Monday 8th June (that's now been pushed to next Monday)


Phase 2 on gov.ie says guidelines are to continue remote working, 'more important than ever', so I'm very confused why they are pushing for this. Fairly large organisation too, would have assumed they would know better.



Thanks for your reply, do you mind me asking is everyone in your place working from home? And if so, when does your company intend to go back to normal?

The large organisations are probably the worst tbh. That’s my experience anyway.

We were one of the last to move to remote working but given the gov advice, are taking a very cautious approach to returning to the office.

Next week, those who cannot work from home can go back to the office. I’d say we have 12 going back out of 200 staff. The office has been deep cleaned, water coolers replaced, seats taken out to ensure social distancing etc. There are currently no plans for anyone else to return beyond that. We can only fit a very limited amount of people in given the 2 meter rule.

Lux23

We won't be back until July 20th, but even then I think we will have to work from home some of the week. I think the maximum occupancy for most buildings is about 30%, but for some rooms it could be a low as 10%. It is very tricky.

An Ri rua

@Willow216 do you have a Workplace Safety Representative appointed? Are FORSA active in your workplace?

Willow216

lfen wrote: »

We can only fit a very limited amount of people in given the 2 meter rule.

I think this rule is mainly for standing a queue or passing people in the street or hall or riding a bus or train for 30mins - I don't think it will work for 8 hours together in the same room everyday; surely you all end up breathing the same thing after that long?



"do you have a Workplace Safety Representative appointed? Are FORSA active in your workplace?"


I read that in the HSA guidelines - I don't see a WSR appointed nor was I introduced to one; just an informal chat with the H&S guy. Not sure about FORSA, will look into it.

Gael23

My office is opening in August with 20% of normal capacity

lfen

Willow216 wrote: »

I think this rule is mainly for standing a queue or passing people in the street or hall or riding a bus or train for 30mins - I don't think it will work for 8 hours together in the same room everyday; surely you all end up breathing the same thing after that long?



"do you have a Workplace Safety Representative appointed? Are FORSA active in your workplace?"


I read that in the HSA guidelines - I don't see a WSR appointed nor was I introduced to one; just an informal chat with the H&S guy. Not sure about FORSA, will look into it.

Maybe in theory it won’t but the employer still has to put measures in place to try to keep employees 2 meters apart. Urinals closed, only 1 allowed in a left, desks removed to allow distance, no desks allowed near a walkway etc. There’s a huge amount that employers have been instructed to do.