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did anyone's financial advisor tip them off before the crash

  • 14-03-2020 10:48am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ lukegriffen


    hi
    i have a private pension & an investment fund with a life company, and i meet my advisor once a year, and make an annual contribution/premium.

    i'm a bit annoyed with myself that i didn't see this coming, it's obvious in hindsight, but i'm also wondering why my financial advisor didn't drop me an email and recommend that I switch to bonds/cash for a few months .

    i guess i'm asking what exactly is the role of a financial advisor (is it just to give advice at the time of investment) , & did anyone's financial advisor tip them off before the crash?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,288 ✭✭✭✭ Thargor


    You're annoyed that you didn't see a massive global pandemic coming in the middle of an oil price war?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    Thargor wrote: »
    You're annoyed that you didn't see a massive global pandemic coming in the middle of an oil price war?

    The CV crisis was with us before the Russians and Saudis went nuclear on each other in order to try and bankrupt American shale industry


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    hi
    i have a private pension & an investment fund with a life company, and i meet my advisor once a year, and make an annual contribution/premium.

    i'm a bit annoyed with myself that i didn't see this coming, it's obvious in hindsight, but i'm also wondering why my financial advisor didn't drop me an email and recommend that I switch to bonds/cash for a few months .

    i guess i'm asking what exactly is the role of a financial advisor (is it just to give advice at the time of investment) , & did anyone's financial advisor tip them off before the crash?

    The guy you meet goes by what someone up the food chain says, he most likely has never even met them as they are likely based in London or new York

    He perhaps - probably could have decided himself to do some switching but the vast majority of people in that industry are little more than sales persons repackaging a product made somewhere else and do little bar making sure they get their slice of the pension commission pie

    Besides, a pension is a multi decade exercise, this collapse came awful quick as well so it would be harsh to criticise the guy too much


  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭ poppers


    if finicial advisers were that good at predicting markets they would not be working just making millions for themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭ Fireball81


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    The guy you meet doesn't manage the fund, he goes by what someone up the food chain says, he most likely has never even met them as they are likely based in London or new York

    +1


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,680 Mod ✭✭✭✭ delly


    Can you switch to cash temporarily? Ironically I started to pay into a pension this year, very small amounts, but it's already down 20%. The money I have waiting to go next month will be down as soon as it lands in their account. Pension is with Zurich.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,767 ✭✭✭✭ rob316


    hi
    i have a private pension & an investment fund with a life company, and i meet my advisor once a year, and make an annual contribution/premium.

    Because they are glorified salesmen. If they could predict the markets they'd be dealing with private equities themselves.

    Other people play around with your money, your "financial advisor" will never never advise you take money from a fund like your describing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,826 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    Look at it this way, last year when you were buying say 10 shares for €10 in a company you saw as being financially sound, right now with your €10 you might be able to buy 20 shares in that same financially sound company...that's one way to look at it and why lots of people made an absolute fortune in the last crash. Others started buying in 'safe times' when stocks recovered and made little. Don't take this as advice to blow your life savings but it's one way of looking at the markets when they are down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭ hurikane


    Spoke to my advisor at the beginning of January. Told him I was concerned and wanted to convert to cash. He talked me out of it. Down 20% now.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    The guy you meet goes by what someone up the food chain says, he most likely has never even met them as they are likely based in London or new York

    He perhaps - probably could have decided himself to do some switching but the vast majority of people in that industry are little more than sales persons repackaging a product made somewhere else and do little bar making sure they get their slice of the pension commission pie

    Besides, a pension is a multi decade exercise, this collapse came awful quick as well so it would be harsh to criticise the guy too much


    OP, best ignored this... review the poster's history... he knows no more that you do in the end.

    @Mad_maxx: Time for you to go learn about investing and stop seeking social validation for your nonsense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    My fiancé and I hope to move house next year, i put 40 k to work in January 2019, was worth 53k the day before the general election here, it's worth 35k now as i was only in two stocks, CRH and Smurfit Kappa

    I only had a third of my savings in the market and thought letting it ride would bump up our spending pot in advance of buying the new house, goes to show you that you should not put a penny in the market unless you can do without it for five years minimum


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    hi
    i have a private pension & an investment fund with a life company, and i meet my advisor once a year, and make an annual contribution/premium.

    i'm a bit annoyed with myself that i didn't see this coming, it's obvious in hindsight, but i'm also wondering why my financial advisor didn't drop me an email and recommend that I switch to bonds/cash for a few months .

    i guess i'm asking what exactly is the role of a financial advisor (is it just to give advice at the time of investment) , & did anyone's financial advisor tip them off before the crash?


    At this stage probably everyone with pension fund feels the same, but nobody can predict this kind of outcome, it is just guess work. So there is not point beating yourself up about it.


    The main think that your advisor needs to have done is ensure that your asset allocation is appropriate for your age and health situation. If you are a young person then he should have had you well exposed to the equity market and you should expect to see a very big drop in the value of your fund and given the time frame with will come back and grow again in the future.



    If on the other hand you are an older person say someone in their late 50s or early 60s and you are very exposed to the market, say 60% or so, then yes unfortunately there is something to be concerned about. And something that you may need to take action on.


    We don't know your personal affairs nor the advice you were given, so I'm not going to draw any conclusion there. Just to say no advisor can protect you from this kind of situations.


    My advice would be to look at your portfolio and your age etc.. as I said and if you are in the latter situation, go talk to your advisor - he has all your personal details. And see what he has to say - if you are in this situation and he is not coming up with some kind of plan to limit your losses, then it is time to speak to someone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭ bizidea


    Never trust anyone else with your money simple


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭ phantom_lord


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    market unless you can do without it for five years minimum

    Yeah, if you look at threads in this forum that has usually been mentioned.

    It's a good lesson for younger people too, to follow the advice to reduce risk closer to retirement.

    If you've a pension with a 20+ year horizon you shouldn't be concerned about what's happening now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭ aristotle25


    My pension is down 25%, so quite a large hit. But its about the same value as it was 12 months ago, so also not the end of the world.

    I keep telling myself I have 25+ years to retirement so it will eventually be just a blip.

    In hindsight I wonder should I have known to move to cash, but at the time the news was up and down a bit and the drop happened quickly enough. I doubt the pension company would have moved it to cash the same day I asked it to, it probably would take at least a few days, at which time the damage was mostly done. And I believe in just keep investing given the long timeframe.

    Keeping in perspective, its a big dip and it will probably go lower but it is or soon will be a good time to invest the 2019 AVC into the pension.


  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭ AngryLoner


    Wouldn’t temporarily moving stocks into cash encur a giant cgt bill on any profits?

    Better just leaving it there and wait for the inevitable rise?


  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭ Coil Kilcrea


    Leave well enough alone, you will do very well over the next 10+ years. This will pass after a while. Max your AVC's and take advantage of these prices.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭ sabat


    delly wrote: »
    Can you switch to cash temporarily? Ironically I started to pay into a pension this year, very small amounts, but it's already down 20%. The money I have waiting to go next month will be down as soon as it lands in their account. Pension is with Zurich.

    Do you pay tax at the higher rate? If so you've made money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭ touts


    I saw this coming. Moved all my shares into gold. So happy I did.


    And I call bull**** on myself. Almost no one saw this coming but there will be lots of Con artists over the next few years who will sell their services on the basis that they sold everything before the crash. Of course they probably sold everything because the revenue sheriff was pounding on the door with a battering ram but they will leave that part off the book cover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭ ebayissues


    hi
    i have a private pension & an investment fund with a life company, and i meet my advisor once a year, and make an annual contribution/premium.

    i'm a bit annoyed with myself that i didn't see this coming, it's obvious in hindsight, but i'm also wondering why my financial advisor didn't drop me an email and recommend that I switch to bonds/cash for a few months .

    i guess i'm asking what exactly is the role of a financial advisor (is it just to give advice at the time of investment) , & did anyone's financial advisor tip them off before the crash?




    Is this the role of a financial advisor....sounds more like private wealth management



    Financial advsior will help you with managing your expenses, budgeting etc. For pensions, based on your age, risk and retun preferences, liquidity needs they can recommend what aset class/ fund to invest yor money into. Stocks or bond... ..developed markets equities vs Global market equities.



    Financial Advisor should have a basic understanding of these funds/investments and the risk but they wont actively know the markets to offer insights into sector rotation which is what you want.



    To have a solid understanding of to say switch to bonds/cash/emerging markets/growth/value stocks, even the professional struggle with the timing of this....................Unless they have worked as equity research analyst/PM/traders/economists, you are barking at the wrong tree etc.. Most of the F.A I've come across do not even have have CFA/technical discpline engineering/quant finance etc and even a solid experience in a known financial institution.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,680 Mod ✭✭✭✭ delly


    sabat wrote: »
    Do you pay tax at the higher rate? If so you've made money.

    No, lower rate. Loss is now just under 30%. Waited so long to start this, should have wait another year I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭ Diairist


    touts wrote: »
    I saw this coming. Moved all my shares into gold. So happy I did.
    .




    I am now told (after the fact) that in a crisis gold goes up then gets liquidated so it falls. I'm confident it will go back up but everyone is desperate for cash at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭ bilbot79


    My pension was up 14% a few weeks back. Now it's -2 but obviously still in loads of profit due to tax benefits.

    This is why it moves to cash the closer you are to retirement which for me is 20 years away. I'm gonna make a big avc now while stocks are low the switch to aggressive risk policy for say 10 years.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,680 Mod ✭✭✭✭ delly


    To those who say ride it out, why is that a better option than switching to cash now then switch back to your regular fund in 6 months as an example? Can you rejoin a fund the same as anyone who hasn't switched?


  • Registered Users Posts: 694 douglashyde


    I have also been bracing for a global down turn for the past 12 months and have held mostly physical gold / bitcoin, but the majority in cash.

    I'm also not particular 'apt' at reading the markets but I do listen to Ray Dalio / Peter Schiff / Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet) and our own David McWilliams who have been crystal a clear that we've been at the end of a bull run for a while now, top this with QE and low interest rates it was inevitable, this Black Swan event just escalated it (massively).

    Financial Advisors are great for tax advice/ long term pension planning etc. but I think there are far better sources of information available and I would never rely on one to make specific stock picks.

    There's value now in energy/airline/ bank stock - but there's more hurt to come in the market in general. Buy the dip // blood in the street and all that jazz.


  • Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭ ebayissues


    delly wrote: »
    To those who say ride it out, why is that a better option than switching to cash now then switch back to your regular fund in 6 months as an example? Can you rejoin a fund the same as anyone who hasn't switched?


    Right now, you have unrealised loss. if you switch to another fund, your pension manager will have sell them at current values therefore you'll have realised losses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭ Enter name here


    Buy low sell high, this is market where with patience alot of money can be made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 694 douglashyde


    The (not so) conventional wisdom here is , 'don't time the market, it's time in the market'

    Yes, in theory you are correct, however if it's a pension fund you need to be thinking very long term.

    If it's a regular fund you are trading then each to their own but my opinion is that there is a lot more hurt to come in most US markets (exceptions might be energy as there's another outlier event at play here)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭ Negative_G


    If someone has circa 50k not providing much of a return, what would be the general advice to make the most of the current economic turmoil.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭ Apollinaris


    About a year ago I switched both my wives and my own pension funds from a share based fund to a bond based fund. I was a laughing stock when I missed out on the highs of the market the end of last year. What made me switch funds was I was very concerned about the very overinflated stock prices (TESLA! and the likes) for me it looked like people and financial institutions borrowing the almost free money and then they reinvest it in the stock market, the only game in town according to everyone. Soon enough I feel I’m going to do a reverse switch, buying share based funds again. Financial advisor is an absolute joke of a job description by the way.


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