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My fiancé has gotten fat

  • 12-03-2020 7:44pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭


    We’ve always been in shape, but in the 2 years we’ve been engaged, my girlfriend has put on quite a few pounds. I’m no longer attracted to her and think I should call off the wedding. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to. What should I do?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    There's quite a lot missing here. Why exactly do you want to call off the wedding - Surely it can't be because your fiancee has put on a few pounds? Personally, I think there is another reason but you seem to have seized on the weight gain as a handy excuse. Sorry to be so blunt.

    If you've fallen out of love? Fair enough. If you simply don't want to marry? Also fair enough. But you are not being entirely fair or honest with yourself or your partner.

    Does she know how you're feeling? Have you discussed this with her in a non-confrontational way?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    There's quite a lot missing here. Why exactly do you want to call off the wedding - Surely it can't be because your fiancee has put on a few pounds? Personally, I think there is another reason but you seem to have seized on the weight gain as a handy excuse. Sorry to be so blunt.

    If you've fallen out of love? Fair enough. If you simply don't want to marry? Also fair enough. But you are not being entirely fair or honest with yourself or your partner.

    Does she know how you're feeling? Have you discussed this with her in a non-confrontational way?

    To put it plainly, I’m not attracted to her anymore. I still do love spending time with her. I have suggested she come to the gym with me, but she doesn’t.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Tell her. Give the girl a chance to lose the weight anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    Dorakman wrote: »
    To put it plainly, I’m not attracted to her anymore. I still do love spending time with her

    Then you should discuss this with her. Do you want to save the relationship or make a break??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭1997


    Jesus..so when your both in your dotage will ye walk out then too? Surely theres more to the relationship than aesthetics?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    1997 wrote: »
    Jesus..so when your both in your dotage will ye walk out then too? Surely theres more to the relationship than aesthetics?

    This. Physical attraction is important but if your devotion to her is this shallow then you probably shouldn't be getting married to begin with.

    For this kind of extreme reaction I can only assume her appearance has changed drastically which doesn't happen overnight. Have you tried to discuss this with her? If not, why not? Do you plan to?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Rufeo


    What about suggesting Walking together? Maybe few nights a week?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,411 ✭✭✭✭woodchuck


    Mod warning:

    @LaFuton, I've deleted your post as it falls well below the standard expected in PI/RI. Please read the charter before posting in the forum again.

    Separately, if you have a problem with a post or poster, report it for the mod team to deal with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭fatknacker


    You’re gonna lose your sh#t when you find out what happens when she gets pregnant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Do the girl a favour and leave her, shows you were probably never all in anyway, if you could leave your fiance at the drop of a hat because she 'put on a few pounds'


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Bazzer007


    Once you put a ring on the finger some girls begin to take their looks for granted. Best to nip this in the bud & explain how you feel. You've already made subtle suggestions without any progress so perhaps it is time to have that honest conversation. Best of luck.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    There is nothing shallow about the OP's problem. We all have a responsibility to look after ourselves for our partner. Physical attraction is nature, no amount of moralising can get past that. If the OP decided to quit work then his GF would rightly have a problem with that too. Generally speaking, men tend to objectify beauty whilst women tend to objectify resources, we evolved like that.

    OP, you should really be able to talk to her openly about this. How is communication for you two as a whole? Why do you think she is gaining weight? It is not healthy and I would guess that she is eating as a result of tension elsewhere. People dont overeat unless there is a reason.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭paulers06


    fatknacker wrote: »
    You’re gonna lose your sh#t when you find out what happens when she gets pregnant.

    Was just thinking this!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    the fact that you jump straight to calling off the wedding implies a bigger issue and you are just looking for an easy excuse to get out. Why wouldn't you talk to the person you were planning to marry? You said you asked her to come to the gym and she said no but did you actually talk to her about why you wanted her to come?

    If you don't want to get married anymore, fine call if off sooner rather then later but do it for the right reasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Sounds like ye be better off being just friends if you are no longer attracted.
    Could you just call a halt to the engagement? Have you told anyone else about it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Tork


    Going to the gym alone isn't going to reverse her weight gain. She has gained weight because of poor food choices and eating habits. For example, is she eating a lot of junk food? Is she emotionally eating? Is she eating portions of food as large as what you're having? These patterns will continue unless she decides to make changes to those. Suggesting she come to the gym with you is not the way to deal with this. Are you expecting her to be a mind-reader? It is an uncomfortable conversation that needs to be had face to face. You could be nice about and start with something along the lines of "I've noticed you've put on weight. Is everything ok?". Then come up with a plan to help her lose the weight and look her best in the wedding photos.

    You sound more like somebody who is looking for an excuse to break up though. It's notable that you've not asked for any advice about how to broach the subject with her. You're prepared to break off this engagement without even trying to resolve this. Do you love her or do you just like her?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    if you are engaged and you find yourself having doubts for any reason, then it is a sign that you are not all that bothered.
    You would be taking an awful chance getting married. You'd be better off to call things off or postpone indefinitely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    OP people have a responsibility to take care of their health but life isn't predictable and there are times other things take precedence such as children and serious illness in the family.

    Has she stopped exercising and is no longer watching her diet? Could she be ill or depressed? Has she had her thyroid checked?

    Perhaps you're not ready to be married if a small weight gain puts you off that much. If you do get married and have children her body will change and despite exercise and diet may not go back to what it was.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Emme wrote: »
    OP people have a responsibility to take care of their health but life isn't predictable and there are times other things take precedence such as children and serious illness in the family.

    Has she stopped exercising and is no longer watching her diet? Could she be ill or depressed? Has she had her thyroid checked?

    Perhaps you're not ready to be married if a small weight gain puts you off that much. If you do get married and have children her body will change and despite exercise and diet may not go back to what it was.

    Who says it's small weight gain, if the op doesn't want to be married to someone over weight then don't marry her job done.

    All the bleeding hearts on here, and morally righteous...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Tork


    He described it as "Quite a few pounds" so that's not a small weight gain.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Cupatae wrote: »
    Who says it's small weight gain, if the op doesn't want to be married to someone over weight then don't marry her job done.

    All the bleeding hearts on here, and morally righteous...

    Agreed, but the OP has only said they asked their partner to go to the gym and they said no. I am currently overweight, and have been since having two kids. I would prefer to lose some weight before taking myself to the gym, and I certainly wouldn't dream of going with my ex-army husband. The OP's partner might not feel comfortable in a gym, and if the OP is a regular goer, the partner might not want to go with them specifically. Regardless of which, inviting someone to the gym isn't a sure-fire way of telling them the wedding is off if they don't get fit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭sunshine2018


    Tell her she’s put on too much weight and you are thinking of calling off the wedding
    If she has any sense then she’ll do the job for you and dump you on the spot.
    What would happen if she had a stroke and had a bit of face paralysis- you probably wouldn’t find her attractive - would you dump her then ? Say if she developed alopecia and lost her hair - would she get the boot ?
    How about if she developed diabetes (thin people can too!) and had to have her leg amputated? Dump her ?
    Mental health issues that meant personal hygiene went out the window ?
    I think you get the point


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Sounds like ye be better off being just friends if you are no longer attracted.
    Could you just call a halt to the engagement? Have you told anyone else about it?

    The chances that the OP and his fiancé would remain friends if the wedding was called off in this instance is zero.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Jjjjjjjjbarry


    Love is blind so basically you’re not in love.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    There is nothing shallow about the OP's problem. We all have a responsibility to look after ourselves for our partner. Physical attraction is nature, no amount of moralising can get past that. If the OP decided to quit work then his GF would rightly have a problem with that too. Generally speaking, men tend to objectify beauty whilst women tend to objectify resources, we evolved like that.

    OP, you should really be able to talk to her openly about this. How is communication for you two as a whole? Why do you think she is gaining weight? It is not healthy and I would guess that she is eating as a result of tension elsewhere. People dont overeat unless there is a reason.

    Very few people are as attractive at 45 or 35 as they are at 25. Your metabolism will slow, your hair will grey and probably fall out, your skin will wrinkle, you may require surgeries that leave you with scars, or chemotherapy that causes your hair and eyebrows to fall out. Most women will have more important things to worry about than a flat stomach after a couple of kids.

    Attraction is vital but true attraction is to someone’s soul. Physical and sexual attraction are a part of that, but only part of it.

    OP, please be gentle in how you raise this. You could really shatter her self-confidence if you discuss it insensitively.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Very few people are as attractive at 45 or 35 as they are at 25. Your metabolism will slow, your hair will grey and probably fall out, your skin will wrinkle, you may require surgeries that leave you with scars, or chemotherapy that causes your hair and eyebrows to fall out. Most women will have more important things to worry about than a flat stomach after a couple of kids.

    Attraction is vital but true attraction is to someone’s soul. Physical and sexual attraction are a part of that, but only part of it.

    OP, please be gentle in how you raise this. You could really shatter her self-confidence if you discuss it insensitively.

    All of those issues you mention are not comparable - they are things that cannot be helped. Stuffing food in your mouth is voluntary and is disrespectful to your partner. It is unhealthy. It could cause the OP financial strain (increased need to pay medical expenses for her etc). She will probaly live a shorter life. It is also irresponsible to her future children. A healthy woman is more likley to produce healthy children. There are higher numbers of miscarriges with obese women. A child with an obese parent is more likley to be obese themselves. It is also more difficult to conceive if a woman is obese. We are programmed as a species to find obese people unatractive, the OP's problem is very natural. He is 100% correct to have a problem with it. Imagine the OP started smoking. Would you have a problem if his partner complained about that? She does not need to gain weight the same as he does not need to smoke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    All of those issues you mention are not comparable - they are things that cannot be helped. Stuffing food in your mouth is voluntary and is disrespectful to your partner. It is unhealthy. It could cause the OP financial strain (increased need to pay medical expenses for her etc). She will probaly live a shorter life. It is also irresponsible to her future children. A healthy woman is more likley to produce healthy children. There are higher numbers of miscarriges with obese women. A child with an obese parent is more likley to be obese themselves. It is also more difficult to conceive if a woman is obese. We are programmed as a species to find obese people unatractive, the OP's problem is very natural. He is 100% correct to have a problem with it. Imagine the OP started smoking. Would you have a problem if his partner complained about that? She does not need to gain weight the same as he does not need to smoke.

    I would consider it an overreaction if the OP was talking about calling off the wedding because his fiancé started smoking (and I’m a lifelong non-smoker)

    The OP has not expressed any concerns about finances, health or ability to bear kids. He also hasn’t been specific enough about the weight gain. If it’s 10-15 pounds he’s being utterly ridiculous. If it’s 4-5 stone maybe he has a point, but then I would have more respect for him if he was concerned for her physical or mental health which he has not mentioned.

    It seems like a purely aesthetic thing, and that is indeed shallow.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    KiKi III wrote: »
    I would consider it an overreaction if the OP was talking about calling off the wedding because his fiancé started smoking (and I’m a lifelong non-smoker)

    The OP has not expressed any concerns about finances, health or ability to bear kids. He also hasn’t been specific enough about the weight gain. If it’s 10-15 pounds he’s being utterly ridiculous. If it’s 4-5 stone maybe he has a point, but then I would have more respect for him if he was concerned for her physical or mental health which he has not mentioned.

    It seems like a purely aesthetic thing, and that is indeed shallow.

    Your missing my point though. There is a reason we dont find obese people attractive (in general), it is natures way of ensuring the continuation of the species. Im trying to show you that although he may not even realise it, the OP is not being shallow and his concerns are warrented. He cannot will away his natural tendencies just as he cant will himself to be two inches taller, his fiancé is the one with the problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭Lily_Aldrin7


    She’s probably stress eating because she’s also having second thoughts about marrying someone as shallow as you. You should call off the wedding because you don’t love her. She will lose the weight if she wants to, hopefully you will grow a little more compassion as you grow up (I hope you’re really young). Also keep going to that gym because karma is a b**ch!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Your missing my point though. There is a reason we dont find obese people attractive (in general), it is natures way of ensuring the continuation of the species. Im trying to show you that although he may not even realise it, the OP is not being shallow and his concerns are warrented. He cannot will away his natural tendencies just as he cant will himself to be two inches taller, his fiancé is the one with the problem.

    We don’t know that this woman is obese. That’s an assumption you’re making. She could have gone from a size 10 to a size 14, which is far from obese.

    The real question is why instead of trying to understand and support the woman he supposedly wanted to spend the rest of his life with, his first thought is to take the very dramatic step of calling off the wedding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    ASMR Glow wrote: »
    So should he just pretend he is attracted to her and plod on?

    No, he should definitely call off the wedding. But he should dig deeper as to why he really wants to call it off, because it’s a very dramatic solution to the problem at hand. It definitely seems like there’s more to the story. Weight gain isn’t enough to end most (would be) marriages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    ASMR Glow wrote: »
    A marriage is in theory a commitment for life, so it's quite a big deal. Would you want to spend the rest of your life having sex with someone you weren't attracted to?

    No, but as other posters have pointed out the woman’s body will change through their marriage through having kids, getting older and in stressful or difficult times. She’s not going to have her 25 year old body forever, and he needs to understand that. In most cases, deep love will overcome that.

    But no, I don’t think he should marry her.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭Daisy78


    Your missing my point though. There is a reason we dont find obese people attractive (in general), it is natures way of ensuring the continuation of the species. Im trying to show you that although he may not even realise it, the OP is not being shallow and his concerns are warrented. He cannot will away his natural tendencies just as he cant will himself to be two inches taller, his fiancé is the one with the problem.

    No he is the one with the problem. As someone said above if we are talking about a couple of pounds then it’s absolutely ridiculous, a couple of stone then that’s a different matter. If he wants to end something good because his girlfriend put on a small amount of weight then he is absolutely not a good candidate for marriage. He needs to grow up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Daisy78 wrote: »
    No he is the one with the problem. As someone said above if we are talking about a couple of pounds then it’s absolutely ridiculous, a couple of stone then that’s a different matter. If he wants to end something good because his girlfriend put on a small amount of weight then he is absolutely not a good candidate for marriage. He needs to grow up.

    From the OP:
    Dorakman wrote: »
    We’ve always been in shape, but in the 2 years we’ve been engaged, my girlfriend has put on quite a few pounds. I’m no longer attracted to her and think I should call off the wedding. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to. What should I do?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    Tell her she’s put on too much weight and you are thinking of calling off the wedding
    If she has any sense then she’ll do the job for you and dump you on the spot.
    What would happen if she had a stroke and had a bit of face paralysis- you probably wouldn’t find her attractive - would you dump her then ? Say if she developed alopecia and lost her hair - would she get the boot ?
    How about if she developed diabetes (thin people can too!) and had to have her leg amputated? Dump her ?
    Mental health issues that meant personal hygiene went out the window ?
    I think you get the point

    Let's be real though..who is attracted to someone who's face is falling off? I'm all for beauty is only skin deep and you should love the inner person but attraction is key. It just is.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    From the OP:

    Yeah but he didn’t quantify what “quite a few” means to him. It could mean ten pounds, it could mean five stone. Since he also said she was quite fit a couple of years ago I have my doubts that the weight gain is dramatic.

    And as I said before, if she has put on a dramatic amount of weight I think it’s crap that he’s not showing any concern for a woman he supposedly loves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Very few people are as attractive at 45 or 35 as they are at 25. Your metabolism will slow, your hair will grey and probably fall out, your skin will wrinkle, you may require surgeries that leave you with scars, or chemotherapy that causes your hair and eyebrows to fall out. Most women will have more important things to worry about than a flat stomach after a couple of kids.

    Attraction is vital but true attraction is to someone’s soul. Physical and sexual attraction are a part of that, but only part of it.

    OP, please be gentle in how you raise this. You could really shatter her self-confidence if you discuss it insensitively.

    Read this post and you have your answer. Great post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Yeah but he didn’t quantify what “quite a few” means to him. It could mean ten pounds, it could mean five stone. Since he also said she was quite fit a couple of years ago I have my doubts that the weight gain is dramatic.

    And as I said before, if she has put on a dramatic amount of weight I think it’s crap that he’s not showing any concern for a woman he supposedly loves.


    Its dramatic enough that the OP is thinking of calling off his wedding so you can assume it is a considerable amount of weight. Look we are going to go around in circles here so we will agree to disagree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    Its dramatic enough that the OP is thinking of calling off his wedding so you can assume it is a considerable amount of weight. Look we are going to go around in circles here so we will agree to disagree.

    If it's so dramatic don't you think it a little odd that he's said nothing about it until he's already at the point of leaving the relationship? It strikes me as weird that someone would get engaged and then decide to end it without ever trying to tackle the supposed issue. Makes it seem like a fairly flimsy engagement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Tell her the truth. Tell her you're a pretty shallow guy, but a shallow guy with a great ass!

    And hers just isn't up to it anymore. Physical attraction is very important and if it's not there for you anymore you need to be honest with her


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,559 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Dorakman wrote: »
    We’ve always been in shape, but in the 2 years we’ve been engaged, my girlfriend has put on quite a few pounds. I’m no longer attracted to her and think I should call off the wedding. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to. What should I do?

    It is what it is. Don't feel too guilty about it. You can't fight the way you feel. It may be easily considered irrational but feelings generally tend to be.

    But what you shouldn't do is string this girl along out of cowardice, face saving or some sense of duty.

    If you're not attracted to her. Don't waste her time. You owe her that much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    If it's so dramatic don't you think it a little odd that he's said nothing about it until he's already at the point of leaving the relationship? It strikes me as weird that someone would get engaged and then decide to end it without ever trying to tackle the supposed issue. Makes it seem like a fairly flimsy engagement.


    Look at many of the replies to this topic. There is a great stigma attached to telling someone they have gained weight. If people were more realistic about the issue and didn't resort to shaming tactics ("shallow" etc.) then perhaps the OP would have been better able to address the issue before it got to this point. Please remember also, the OP has stated that they spoke to their fiance already to no effect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Rikand wrote: »
    Tell her the truth. Tell her you're a pretty shallow guy, but a shallow guy with a great ass!

    And hers just isn't up to it anymore. Physical attraction is very important and if it's not there for you anymore you need to be honest with her


    If that is the case, the the entire human race is shallow. Ever wonder why skinny models are used to sell goods and services? I know there has been a change in that department lately but those changes are just pure virtue signaling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,559 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Rikand wrote: »
    Tell her the truth. Tell her you're a pretty shallow guy, but a shallow guy with a great ass!

    And hers just isn't up to it anymore. Physical attraction is very important and if it's not there for you anymore you need to be honest with her

    Shallow?

    Pfffft

    Sex and beauty sells. Are you going to deny human nature?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ITman88


    Bottom line is physical attraction is critical before marriage. If it’s gone before marriage happens then it’s over and OP is correct to consider stopping the wedding.
    The OP has stated the weight began after the engagement.
    Weight gain is simply eating to much and lack of discipline, regardless of other issues.
    No one wants to get into bed beside a fat slob.
    Weight gain before marriage would set alarm bells ringing for me, this won’t improve regardless of any discussion’s I’m afraid.
    To the posters saying the OP is shallow, he’s not, if someone gets sick or contracts alopecia they can still be attractive. Personally I find the laziness and lack of discipline a big issue.
    Some women can gain weight and still be attractive as hell if the weight gain isn’t on the legs or bottom, other just look frumpy.
    Bottom line is this is your life OP, it’s up to you, don’t expect the future to be different if you marry her


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Look at many of the replies to this topic. There is a great stigma attached to telling someone they have gained weight. If people were more realistic about the issue and didn't resort to shaming tactics ("shallow" etc.) then perhaps the OP would have been better able to address the issue before it got to this point. Please remember also, the OP has stated that they spoke to their fiance already to no effect.

    I’m not judging him for wanting to break it off because he’s fat; if I’m judging him for anything it’s for proposing to a woman he clearly (IMO) never truly loved. And I’m judging him for expressing no love, concern or compassion for the woman he’s currently engaged to in the OP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    Dorakman wrote: »
    We’ve always been in shape, but in the 2 years we’ve been engaged, my girlfriend has put on quite a few pounds. I’m no longer attracted to her and think I should call off the wedding. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to. What should I do?

    It’s not the weight. You’re not in love with her. Call off the wedding. And do it straight away. Stop leading her on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭BuboBubo


    Do you want to marry her? Yes or no?

    If you don't want to marry her don't. Regardless of your reason. You would be doing the girl a favour by ending the relationship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Tork


    It'd be helpful if Dorakman came back to us with more information. This looks like a thread where someone threw in a grenade then stood back to watch the aftermath. Weight gain in partners is an emotive topic and a great way to stir things up.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    MOD NOTE

    I've just deleted a number of posts that weren't considered advice to the OP and/or didn't meet the standards expected in PI.

    No doubt this is a sensitive topic, but its still expected that people be civil to each other and the OP. If you have no advice to offer the OP, please consider whether to post and take a look at the Charter if you are unsure.


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