Family member rule / termination of tenancy

Firefork

Seeking advice

I’ve fallen fowl of the areas influx of workers and rent hikes

I’ve been renting over14 years
Same house same landlord
Absolutely no issues
In fact have only spoken to the landlord maybe 4 or five times in that period

Most of them in the last two years
Once to inform him I had replaced the electric shower and would he contribute

And recently the oil boiler had packed in
It was fixed and he raised the rent €100

Which was fair enough I was paying the same rent the last 10 years plus
These things happen

While talking to him he asked my plans
I said I had no immediate plans to move
And he said that’s perfect your a great Tennant no problems you look after the house well and I’m happy for you to stay as long as you want
I said well I’ve no real plans for the next 5 years at least

I’ve spent a lot on the upkeep of the house for my own comfort
Fenced off the garden
Put a patio in “ garden was alway waterlogged” painted the whole house inside and fitted wooden floors
For my own comfort “ yes I know rented house “

Last week
There was a legal letter pushed through the door
Notice of end of tenancy because of a family member moving in a son

Which I’m sure I just a loophole he has two other houses in the same street and several other houses .

He’s give me the legal minimum time to move which thankfully
Is over 200 days because of my
Long time there .

Have I any options to at get back some compensation for all the work and money into upgrading the property ?

bucketybuck

Produce the contract where he asked you to do any work and agreed a price with you to do the work, and then ask him to adhere to the contract you both agreed.

Firefork

bucketybuck wrote: »

Produce the contract where he asked you to do any work and agreed a price with you to do the work, and then ask him to adhere to the contract you both agreed.

Unfortunately it was just a verbal thing
It was a very relaxed agreement

Come to think
I had a conversation with the local tenants association about the upkeep of the grounds
They wanted me to contact the landlord about the fees which he was liable for
And they told me I had not been registered as a Tennant in that house and he owned other properties which he had owed them fees on in the area

Not long after that
About a year ago
I
Got documents to say he had registered my as an official Tennant

Think that’s we’re the issues started

The local rents have sky rocketed because of the local Ida business area taking on new companies

He could easily get a higher rent now

Ray Palmer

If your rent hasn't gone up for 10 years you were more than compensated for any work you did.

It was not a good idea buy and pay for improvements to the house. Given the rent wasn't raised for a 10 year period you basically agreed to not hassle the landlord and pay for it yourself. I have had tenants do work because the thought I would put up the rent if I had to pay. I gather that was your thoughts too.

Now he is ending the tenancy you feel hard done by and want to claim back for the work you did. I can't see where he could have verbally agreed to this and never gave you money over the years.

He can remove you for a number of reason legally and given he didn't raise the rent it is doubtful he is kicking you out to raise the rent. Just believe him and move on as you had a good deal and he isn't obliged to keep renting to you forever.

Hoboo

Take the patio, fence and floors with you. Return then to original state.

Firefork

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If your rent hasn't gone up for 10 years you were more than compensated for any work you did.

It was not a good idea buy and pay for improvements to the house. Given the rent wasn't raised for a 10 year period you basically agreed to not hassle the landlord and pay for it yourself. I have had tenants do work because the thought I would put up the rent if I had to pay. I gather that was your thoughts too.

Now he is ending the tenancy you feel hard done by and want to claim back for the work you did. I can't see where he could have verbally agreed to this and never gave you money over the years.

He can remove you for a number of reason legally and given he didn't raise the rent it is doubtful he is kicking you out to raise the rent. Just believe him and move on as you had a good deal and he isn't obliged to keep renting to you forever.

Well it’s a fairly rural area
In the beginning the rent was about average for the area “ new private development “ which after after a few years the standard of the area declined rapidly
With the crash newer better developments in the area and planning permission issues
A lot of owner occupiers and families moving on
And the council taking over properties etc

So my rent had been the average or even above for many years

Now the area has become a rent hotspot
Due to a Ida business park
Attracting multinationals

Firefork

Hoboo wrote: »

Take the patio, fence and floors with you. Return then to original state.

Yes apart from the flooring I will be returning the house back to the original state

Irish_peppa

Hoboo wrote: »

Take the patio, fence and floors with you. Return then to original state.

Crikey, a bit extreme. I dont think he will be getting a glowing reference from his landlord of 10 years if he does this. OP it sucks, but I think maybe you gonna say you got a good run for a decade and head on amicably. Get a good reference from him. In your next place dont invest heavily time-wise or financially in a property you are renting even if it is for your own comfort. I wouldnt anyway.
before the Nuclear Option of removing all that would a better way to do it be ask him politely if he could do anything for you for the extra work you have done.
Patio Materials supplied and Install
Laminate Flooring Supplied and Install
He would be very mean spirited to not give you a golden handshake! Is he fully aware of works done and happy with the end result? If its a decent job if i was the owner I would certainly look after the tenant

Ray Palmer

Firefork wrote: »

Well it’s a fairly rural area
In the beginning the rent was about average for the area “ new private development “ which after after a few years the standard of the area declined rapidly
With the crash newer better developments in the area and planning permission issues
A lot of owner occupiers and families moving on
And the council taking over properties etc

So my rent had been the average or even above for many years

Now the area has become a rent hotspot
Due to a Ida business park
Attracting multinationals

You got a good deal if your rent didn't increase for 10 years no matter what. Landlords expenses went up over that time.

If you are going to remove fixtures and fittings like fences, patio etc.. it better not be damaging in anyway.

You really seem to want to get back at the landlord, am I wrong?

Irish_peppa

Firefork wrote: »

Yes apart from the flooring I will be returning the house back to the original state

You would need to be careful if he left the kickboards damadged or not in original state from pulling up those floors.
Have you the original carpets or floor coverings? Will you just leave a bare concrete floor:eek:

Zulu

I appreciate that its a sore point, but your best course of action here is to try and put it behind you and move on.

The LL has no obligation to pay for, or compensate you for the work you've done as you've no formal agreement in place. It's a pisser getting evicted (I know, it happened to me for "renovations") but it appears the LL has provided a legitimate reason. If he doenst move in a son, you've grounds for a complaint, but thats months down the line, and you might find in the balance of things, your happiness and well-being is better served moving on.

AulWan

14 years a great tenant, and he doesn't even have the courtesy to call in and speak to you in person, just shoves a letter through the door?

What an asshole.

Roadtoad

Is the 4-year cycle coming to a close?

I think the LL cannot use the 'son/daughter' clause except at the end of the 4-year cycle, Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Firefork

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You got a good deal if your rent didn't increase for 10 years no matter what. Landlords expenses went up over that time.

If you are going to remove fixtures and fittings like fences, patio etc.. it better not be damaging in anyway.

You really seem to want to get back at the landlord, am I wrong?

Not at all

At our last chat a year or so ago
We agreed on a change of rent
I gave him a time frame on how long I’d be staying we agreed
And now this
I see your end as a land lord
But I’ve met all my commitments all along

I’ve cost him €80 over 12 years in the upkeep of the property

Claw Hammer

Roadtoad wrote: »

Is the 4-year cycle coming to a close?

I think the LL cannot use the 'son/daughter' clause except at the end of the 4-year cycle, Correct me if I'm wrong please.

He can use the son/daughter excuse during the 4 year cycle. He doesn't need to at the end of it.

C3PO

I do feel sorry for you OP but you have a business relationship with your landlord and he now wants to end it, which he is entitled to do. It was never going to last forever!
I wouldn’t bother taking the patio etc with you but I guess that’s up to you.
If the house is in an RPZ, I would be keeping an eye out for the landlord putting it back on the rental market at a significantly increased rent!

bucketybuck

Firefork wrote: »

But I’ve met all my commitments all along

So has he.

Firefork

bucketybuck wrote: »

So has he.

I don’t think so
I
Was promised a rent book At the last rent hike
And We agreed I’d stay no longer than 5 years

All verbal of course
But I’ve been give no rent ever

Zulu

Firefork wrote: »

Not at all

At our last chat a year or so ago
We agreed on a change of rent
I gave him a time frame on how long I’d be staying we agreed
And now this
I see your end as a land lord
But I’ve met all my commitments all along

I’ve cost him €80 over 12 years in the upkeep of the property

Sadly that counts for nowt now.

You've been issued (on the face of it) a valid termination notice. You can rage against the tide, but you on a hiding to nothing.

Sorry. I know it's a kick in the stones.

Firefork

Zulu wrote: »

Sadly that counts for nowt now.

You've been issued (on the face of it) a valid termination notice. You can rage against the tide, but you on a hiding to nothing.

Sorry. I know it's a kick in the stones.

Ahh I know
Just wondered was there any options

If anything I’ll make sure he does make his son move in and stay the proper amount of time before he Re rents it

As I said
It’s a rural area everyone knows everyone

Firefork

C3PO wrote: »

I do feel sorry for you OP but you have a business relationship with your landlord and he now wants to end it, which he is entitled to do. It was never going to last forever!
I wouldn’t bother taking the patio etc with you but I guess that’s up to you.
If the house is in an RPZ, I would be keeping an eye out for the landlord putting it back on the rental market at a significantly increased rent!

That’s exactly what I’m doing

PhoenixParker

Probably worth checking if his other tenants got the same letter.

1874

Hoboo wrote: »

Take the patio, fence and floors with you. Return then to original state.

Well, that might backfire, does the tenant have the original floor coverings or records to their condition.
Thats just being dickish.

Firefork wrote: »

Yes apart from the flooring I will be returning the house back to the original state

Might not go all your way, how old is the stuff you had put in? have you had good use out of it? essentially it's value to you is limited and all the inconvenience of taking it out and then maybe replacing what you removed to fit it!
Did you have written permission to fit those items, because you might be called upon to replace them with similar, which would be cheaper to leave what you put in, you had them for their purpose and it could go against you and just be an inconvenience too.

AulWan wrote: »

14 years a great tenant, and he doesn't even have the courtesy to call in and speak to you in person, just shoves a letter through the door

What an asshole.

You mean the landlord did it officially and correctly as they should? because they would be faulted for not doing that officially and correctly.
Landlord tenant relationship should be kept business like, anything else is hassle, for tenants and landlords. Ive read threads of overbearing landlords and this guy was hands off and allowed the tenant to live in peace and do as they pleased, at the worst they had averaged out over the years but by the sounds of it, if rent had not changed for a long time, then they have saved a fortune in rent, you simply cannot win as a landlord with tenants views as you are damned if you do or dont.

Firefork

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Probably worth checking if his other tenants got the same letter.

I’m assuming so
One other one up the street is vacant

C3PO

Firefork wrote: »

I’m assuming so
One other one up the street is vacant

How many sons does he have?

Firefork

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Crikey, a bit extreme. I dont think he will be getting a glowing reference from his landlord of 10 years if he does this. OP it sucks, but I think maybe you gonna say you got a good run for a decade and head on amicably. Get a good reference from him. In your next place dont invest heavily time-wise or financially in a property you are renting even if it is for your own comfort. I wouldnt anyway.
before the Nuclear Option of removing all that would a better way to do it be ask him politely if he could do anything for you for the extra work you have done.
Patio Materials supplied and Install
Laminate Flooring Supplied and Install
He would be very mean spirited to not give you a golden handshake! Is he fully aware of works done and happy with the end result? If its a decent job if i was the owner I would certainly look after the tenant

Indeed
That’s what I would expect at the very least

PhoenixParker

Firefork wrote: »

I’m assuming so
One other one up the street is vacant

If the vacant house is a similar size &/or the other tenants have received similar notices you might be in a good position to dispute.

Another poster was in a similar position recently and successfully disputed it.

Read here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111880179

Firefork

C3PO wrote: »

How many sons does he have?

One

I knew the family fairly well
Even did a few jobs for them in the past

BaZmO*

Have you spoken to him about it?

Firefork

PhoenixParker wrote: »

If the vacant house is a similar size &/or the other tenants have received similar notices you might be in a good position to dispute.

Another poster was in a similar position recently and successfully disputed it.

Read here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111880179

Exactly the same house
I believe the Tennant passed away

Firefork

BaZmO* wrote: »

Have you spoken to him about it?

Not
Yet

I’m getting my homework done first

garhjw

You should be thankful you lived there for 10+ years with only 1 rent increase.

Ray Palmer

Firefork wrote: »

Not at all

At our last chat a year or so ago
We agreed on a change of rent
I gave him a time frame on how long I’d be staying we agreed
And now this
I see your end as a land lord
But I’ve met all my commitments all along

I’ve cost him €80 over 12 years in the upkeep of the property

Then why would you rip out any fixtures of fittings unless you are trying to get some revenge. They are worth very little to you and it is a lot if effort to remove them.

Had tenant who put up 2 €5 shelves. Because he was leaving he decided to take them with him. He pulled them off the wall destroying the plaster on the wall. A wall that had been plastered before he moved in when I did the place up. He then start questioning why he wasn't getting his deposit back. His deposit didn't cover the damage to the place that was like bew when he moved in. Petty person who intentionally damaged the place. I would see anybody pulling out stuff like you have said the same way.

You rented a property for 10 years with no increase you got every good deal. You could always have got him to pay but you didn't. Did you not ask because you felt the rent would go up?

overkill602

good luck in your next rental you might catch a recession dip soon, such as life market decides

Firefork

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Then why would you rip out any fixtures of fittings unless you are trying to get some revenge. They are worth very little to you and it is a lot if effort to remove them.

Had tenant who put up 2 €5 shelves. Because he was leaving he decided to take them with him. He pulled them off the wall destroying the plaster on the wall. A wall that had been plastered before he moved in when I did the place up. He then start questioning why he wasn't getting his deposit back. His deposit didn't cover the damage to the place that was like bew when he moved in. Petty person who intentionally damaged the place. I would see anybody pulling out stuff like you have said the same way.

You rented a property for 10 years with no increase you got every good deal. You could always have got him to pay but you didn't. Did you not ask because you felt the rent would go up?

I’m not ripping out anything
Yes I gather you’re a landlord

I’ll be taking things I’ve added I can use in my other home

I won’t be undoing the waterlogged garden I had piped and drained
And the decorating I have upgraded the house with for my own comfort

All I’m saying is I’ve greatly upgraded the property drainage and fencing off the garden

I’d have hoped the landlord would have at least spoken to me
Before shoving a legal letter through the door after he had assured me our arrangement would not change for the next 2 to 5 years

It’s in the country not Dublin
It has not until recently become a renting hotspot

Firefork

overkill602 wrote: »

good luck in your next rental you might catch a recession dip soon, such as life market decides

Exactly

There’s a bit of a boom here for the next year or two and things will calm

the_syco

Firefork wrote: »

Yes apart from the flooring I will be returning the house back to the original state

If you replaced any hardware, you will probably have to leave it there. Otherwise he could have you charged over stealing items.

Firefork wrote: »

And We agreed I’d stay no longer than 5 years

And you're not staying there longer than the 5 years...

Firefork wrote: »

Exactly the same house
I believe the Tennant passed away

Is it back on the market? He could be selling it.

AulWan

1874 wrote: »

You mean the landlord did it officially and correctly as they should? because they would be faulted for not doing that officially and correctly.
Landlord tenant relationship should be kept business like, anything else is hassle, for tenants and landlords. Ive read threads of overbearing landlords and this guy was hands off and allowed the tenant to live in peace and do as they pleased, at the worst they had averaged out over the years but by the sounds of it, if rent had not changed for a long time, then they have saved a fortune in rent, you simply cannot win as a landlord with tenants views as you are damned if you do or dont.

After 14 years of a no hassle tenancy, the landlord could have had the common decency to knock on the door, and hand his tenant the termination notice in person, face to face, with the explanation that he needs the house for his son (if that is even the truth, which its probably not).

Doing it the way he did, just shoving it through the door, was cowardly - especially as not to long ago he seemed ok with the OP saying he wanted to stay for at least another 5 years.

So yep, still an asshole. IMO. For the way he did it.

Firefork

the_syco wrote: »

If you replaced any hardware, you will probably have to leave it there. Otherwise he could have you charged over stealing items.


And you're not staying there longer than the 5 years...


Is it back on the market? He could be selling it.

Well that’s the thing

My cousin is selling her house
It’s been on the market a while
She’s been advised to rent for 3 years
There’s guaranteed twice the average rent because a multinational is building a complex in a local Ida business park
And need properties for the people getting it up
Guaranteed income for a few years lease

Firefork

AulWan wrote: »

After 14 years of a no hassle tenancy, the landlord could have had the common decency to knock on the door, and hand his tenant the termination notice in person, face to face, with the explanation that he needs the house for his son (if that is even the truth, which its probably not).

Doing it the way he did, just shoving it through the door, was cowardly - especially as not to long ago he seemed ok with the OP saying he wanted to stay for at least another 5 years.

So yep, still an asshole. IMO. For the way he did it.

My point exactly
Thank you for understanding

ted1

Firefork wrote: »

Ahh I know
Just wondered was there any options

If anything I’ll make sure he does make his son move in and stay the proper amount of time before he Re rents it

As I said
It’s a rural area everyone knows everyone

Could you ask that if another of his properties becomes available you can have it or his son takes that ?

the_syco

Firefork wrote: »

She’s been advised to rent for 3 years
There’s guaranteed twice the average rent because a multinational is building a complex in a local Ida business park

Tell them to talk to an accountant, as what they makes in the 3 years they could end up paying a chunk of it as CGT. The EA just wants their cash whilst they rent your cousins property; they don't care if it'll cost your cousin in the long run.

AulWan

AulWan wrote: »

After 14 years of a no hassle tenancy, the landlord could have had the common decency to knock on the door, and hand his tenant the termination notice in person, face to face, with the explanation that he needs the house for his son (if that is even the truth, which its probably not).

Doing it the way he did, just shoving it through the door, was cowardly - especially as not to long ago he seemed ok with the OP saying he wanted to stay for at least another 5 years.

So yep, still an asshole. IMO. For the way he did it.

It’s a business transaction, the bank or your insurance company doesn’t send someone around to hand you a letter. Also posting it give the LL proof and also avoids a confrontation which is a valid reason too.

AulWan

Emery Rapping Ringleader wrote: »

It’s a business transaction, the bank or your insurance company doesn’t send someone around to hand you a letter. Also posting it give the LL proof and also avoids a confrontation which is a valid reason too.

Still an asshole!

bucketybuck

AulWan wrote: »

Still an asshole!

That'll teach him to leave the rent below market rate for all those years, you get no thanks for it in the end.

AulWan

14 years of a no hassle tenant who has probably paid the equivalent of the mortgage off for him, as well as improved the house, with decorating, floors, landscaping, fencing and a patio

And a letter shoved through the door without so much as a conversation is the thanks the tenant got..

Maybe he should have ripped up the house and destroyed it, the way landlords claim so many tenants do.

strangel00p

Well, it is his house, which means if his son needs accommodation then he is entitled to give it to him.



You have saved a lot of money over the years because the landlord didn't increase the rent, so at least that is something positive.



As a tenant (I have spent many years renting in different countries), I would never have dreamed of spending my money to improve my landlords house, because it is not mine. Sure, I might make very minor cosmetic changes to make it comfortable but installing a new patio, draining the gardent - not a chance.


You will need a reference from your previous landlord, so I would not rock the boat on this.

BaZmO*

Emery Rapping Ringleader wrote: »

It’s a business transaction, the bank or your insurance company doesn’t send someone around to hand you a letter. Also posting it give the LL proof and also avoids a confrontation which is a valid reason too.

If it’s a “business arrangement” why didn’t the landlord have the tenant registered originally, or have a rent book, or have records of formal agreements, or carry out repairs in a professional manner rather than a nod and a wink that it would get done? You can’t have it both ways.

The issue here is that they pretty much had an informal agreement and the landlord ended it with a d1ckish move with the solicitor’s letter. It’s sh1t, but unfortunately that’s life.

andekwarhola

AulWan wrote: »

14 years a great tenant, and he doesn't even have the courtesy to call in and speak to you in person, just shoves a letter through the door?

What an asshole.

Why? They're not mates. The landlord provided the OP with a place to live and now he wants his house back. You know, the house that he owns.

As for expecting compensation for unsolicited, non-essential improvements to a house you don't own, lol.

AulWan

Look, you have your opinion, I have mine. Opinions are not open for debate!

In my opinion, the manner in which the landlord delivered the termination notice to his good, reliable tenant of 14 years, who looked after the property, and in fact, improved it, was asshole-ish.

You are free to have a different opinion, but it will not change mine.

andekwarhola

AulWan wrote: »

Look, you have your opinion, I have mine. Opinions are not open for debate!

On a message board, they actually kind of are.